I recently submitted a Form 1 to convert my CZ Scorpion into an SBR for home defense. Figuring my wife will be more accurate shooting a shoulder fired weapon vs a handgun in an emergency. But now I’m wondering will she legally be allowed to shoot that weapon without me being present? I know that is how it works with suppressors but unsure about conversions. Thanks for the help.
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Using someone else’s SBR
- Thread starter Sbertuna
- Start date
If it's a form 1 individual, you are the only one who is supposed to have access to it.
Other people can shoot it in your presence, but you can't loan it to someone.
A trust would be the best scenario here, and you can add your wife to the trust.
It sounds a lot more involved than it really is, SilencerShop has an "easy trust" and they do all the hard work for you
www.silencershop.com
Although if this is something I am using for Home defense.....I would honestly skip the NFA and just slap a brace on it.
That way you don't have to worry about access, or the feds, or travel or resale
Other people can shoot it in your presence, but you can't loan it to someone.
A trust would be the best scenario here, and you can add your wife to the trust.
It sounds a lot more involved than it really is, SilencerShop has an "easy trust" and they do all the hard work for you
Gun Trusts - Services
www.silencershop.com
Although if this is something I am using for Home defense.....I would honestly skip the NFA and just slap a brace on it.
That way you don't have to worry about access, or the feds, or travel or resale
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NFA items cannot be in the possession of a person that is not the registrant. That means the registered must at all times maintain 'dominion and control' of the item. So, if you are the sole registered owner of an NFA firearm you must be present when any other person has access to the firearm. This means you can't even leave the house without the item being secured in in a manner that prevents others from immediate access. If you leave the safe unlocked you technically have a problem.
There are two basic ways to get multiple people access to NFA firearms, trusts and corporations. For legal purposes, the trust or corp is a 'person', and members of the trust or corporation may all have access. There is actually one other way, if you are a dealer, by making someone an authorized individual under your FFL.
This appilies to ALL NFA items, not sure why you think suppressors are different.
There are two basic ways to get multiple people access to NFA firearms, trusts and corporations. For legal purposes, the trust or corp is a 'person', and members of the trust or corporation may all have access. There is actually one other way, if you are a dealer, by making someone an authorized individual under your FFL.
This appilies to ALL NFA items, not sure why you think suppressors are different.
The annoying part of the trust or corporation will be the need to execute a tax paid transfer to the new entity, unless you void teh Form 1 now, create the trust and resubmit the Form 1 when the trust becomes active. Note that fingerprint cards and photos must be submitted for all members
That would probably be the route to go if at all possible to save the $200 tax.
Depending on the state, a trust can be a very quick and simple thing to get done up.
SBR'd my Scorpion some years back. Wish I had gone the trust/corporation route. If you're not present, your wife could be in deep trouble if she used the weapon. Given today's political climate, I have no doubt she would be in more trouble than the trash she shot to protect herself...
The only solution now is to void the Form 1, if it's not yet approved or within a week or so of approval. If it's not yet complete, you can call it to ATF and the $200 would be refunded. Get the trust filed, then refile the Form 1 as the trust.
If the Form 1 is complete and more than a month old, you'll need to form the trust, then file a Form 4 to transfer the gun to the trust, paying another $200.
If the Form 1 is complete and more than a month old, you'll need to form the trust, then file a Form 4 to transfer the gun to the trust, paying another $200.
FUCKING stooopidity. Let's put these regulations on the 1st Amendment. Start fining and jailing the dishonest pravda!
Seems they have perverted the "Shall Not Be Infringed" way beyond recognition. Damn commies!!
Seems they have perverted the "Shall Not Be Infringed" way beyond recognition. Damn commies!!
Even your wife having the combination to your safe is technically illegal.
Sure, why not? Four years of the pravda screaming Russia Russia Russia all the time knowing that it was false. When a person leaks false information and then uses that news reporting to get a secret warrant to spy on American Citizens or even a president? Some how those shit bags should not be able to hide behind the 1st A if I have to abide by the bullshit infringements on the 2A.
If that doesn't cover it. A better composed question is required.
Sounds pretty stoopid, doesn't it?So the answer to 2nd amendment infringements is to infringe upon other rights? That sounds like a solid plan
I am going to guess that sarcasm is not your in your wheelhouse?
Sorry to disappoint you.
To be clear....if you are a citizen and If you are not in prison your Rights to keep and bear arms shall not be Infringed.
I was afraid you would say that. Thank you though for the advice. It has not been approved yet so I’ll get on the changes that you suggested.
I worked with these folks on everything, the Trust, SBR, suppressors, etc.
My Trust and the majority of my items were purchased between 2016 and 2018, using their advice (a notarized form) I was able to avoid getting my wife and kids fingerprinted for my purchase of a 22 suppressor in 2020. They did not charge me for the advice, phone call, etc.
They could be of help to you and solve your problem. The price is reasonable, call them.
nfalawyers.com
My Trust and the majority of my items were purchased between 2016 and 2018, using their advice (a notarized form) I was able to avoid getting my wife and kids fingerprinted for my purchase of a 22 suppressor in 2020. They did not charge me for the advice, phone call, etc.
They could be of help to you and solve your problem. The price is reasonable, call them.
NFA Gun Trust Lawyers | $150 Gun Trust w/ Attorney support
Lawyers who form gun trust so you can file with the ATF a form 1, form 4 to acquire a suppressor, silencer, SBR. Gun Trust that come with
nfalawyers.com
This is for home defense, right? Meaning, that if it were used, it would be in your home, right? What fucking business is it of anyone what you or anyone else in your home is using? I might understand giving the Man more information than necessary if it is going out to the range regularly, but by your own admission, this is a seldom if ever used gun.
Do you also send in notice that you went over the speed limit while driving?
Do you also send in notice that you went over the speed limit while driving?
maybe you should just go back to shutting up and maybe not give advice to people that will cause them to commit felonies.
and what happens if someone does break in and his wife needs to use the gun, and police find a dead body and an NFA violation......local police may not care, but ATF doesnt really give a shit about you, and will look for any excuse to fuck you in the ass.
so unless you are going to dump the body in the river and never talk about it...make it legal.
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In one word training training training. If you need two words training training training.
410 shot gun cut the barrel to 18 1/2
410 shot gun cut the barrel to 18 1/2
THEY WILL give a fuck if the wrong person shoots someone with it. You will too afterwards
Gary Fadden defended himself from a road rage incident with a legal full auto and the local prosecutor instead put him on trial for murder one. IIRC the prosecutor stated he wouldn’t have attempted a M1 trial with a normal (non NFA) weapon but felt he could get a conviction because of the NFA item
www.shotgunworld.com
www.georgiapacking.org
The Gary Fadden incident
By popular request... The Gary Fadden incident. Liberal prosecutor, motorcycle driving thugs, class 3 ruger AC556, and a pair of scared newlyweds in an f250. Situation: A road-rage incident escalates into a deadly pursuit. Lesson: Keep communications as handy as your gun. Bad guys fear...
www.shotgunworld.com
The Gary McFadden incident
I'm not sure of how many others are familiar with this story. I stumbled across it earlier today and thought it a read worthy of sharing with all. Absolutely incredible account of a self-defense shooting and the legal firestorm which followed as a result of the involvement of a Class III firearm...
www.georgiapacking.org
How long are you targeting your SBR build to be in overall length with the stock open and all that?
Is it significantly shorter than for example a Tavor rifle which comes in at 28" total?
Is it significantly shorter than for example a Tavor rifle which comes in at 28" total?
I'm pretty sure the Scorpion has been sold both as a pistol and as a pistol-caliber rifle. If he bought the latter, he's stuck going the NFA way if he wants it shorter
to be honest, the prosecutor sounds like a moron who doesnt understand the law...murder 1 generally requires some form of premeditation...its not based on the scariness of the firearm used.....Gary Fadden defended himself from a road rage incident with a legal full auto and the local prosecutor instead put him on trial for murder one. IIRC the prosecutor stated he wouldn’t have attempted a M1 trial with a normal (non NFA) weapon but felt he could get a conviction because of the NFA item
The Gary Fadden incident
By popular request... The Gary Fadden incident. Liberal prosecutor, motorcycle driving thugs, class 3 ruger AC556, and a pair of scared newlyweds in an f250. Situation: A road-rage incident escalates into a deadly pursuit. Lesson: Keep communications as handy as your gun. Bad guys fear...The Gary McFadden incident
I'm not sure of how many others are familiar with this story. I stumbled across it earlier today and thought it a read worthy of sharing with all. Absolutely incredible account of a self-defense shooting and the legal firestorm which followed as a result of the involvement of a Class III firearm...
so even in the most uncharitable interpretation of this event....lets say he went out with the intention of killing someone (which his actions directly contradict, but lets ignore that for now)....he would have had to have known that someone would chase and follow him into a gated area and then get out of their car to attack him......he would have had to have known that, and planned on that to happen.......and even then, you would be hard pressed to get a murder 1 conviction.
but i get the point you are trying to make....public perception and "scary" firearms can influence juries and prosecutors....
toucheThat was sarcasm lol. Guess you aren't that good at detecting it either
A: Best to avoid trial altogether. Clearly what gun you used should have nothing to do with it, but it might. Better to have the engraving say PEACEKEEPER rather than STONE KILLER. WE know it does not matter, but WE are not empaneling the grand jury.
B: Unless you happen to know the judge, is a bench trial really going to work out better? The judge is less biased than the prosecutor? At least at jury you only have to convince 1 out of 12, with a bench trial you need to go 1 for 1.
C: We may also state that while we find the NFA repugnant to the Constitution, it has been upheld numerous times. As such, I can't advise committing a felony in the course of an otherwise clear case of self-defense.
'Here lies the body of William Jay
Who died maintaining his right of way
He was right, dead right, as he sped along,
But he's just as dead as if he were wrong'
It's bad enough you use an AR15 with a magazine that holds 100 clips to defend your home but your wife unlawfully using a SBR registered only to you is all some slimy Leftist lawyer would want thats representing the family of the dead home invader rapist/murderer thats suing you for turning their 'baby's' life around, especially some states that don't have a castle doctrine.
honestly man, that sounds like a lot of hassle for 1"
if it were me, i would keep the scorpion as a toy, and i would get something like an AR pistol (in either rifle or pistol chamberings) for the wife/ Home defense....
that way you can get a much shorter package, and you dont have to deal with the NFA and any potential troubles resulting from that.
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