I'm looking at purchasing either a US Optics SN3 3.2-17, or a comparable nightforce or Mark 4. In Canada the price seems to be about $1000 or a little more for the US Optics over the Leupold or NF. I'd like some feedback from someone who owns any of these. Thanks in advance.
Rifle Scopes USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
- Thread starter Dustin1984
- Start date
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I have several US Optics SN3's... I find that the 3.2-17 is just about as good as you can get. Absolute reliablity, customer service second to none.
The crew at USO are amazing... and really bring you into the family when you buy one.
They are a small company, and each optic is pretty much built to order if you order direct from US Optics.
I have a few Nightforce as well as some Leupold MK4 as well. All are supurb for what they do.
However, my money is spent in support of USO, all day, every day.
Asking this type of question will drag up discussion similar to "Is DI better than Piston" in the AR world. You won't go wrong with any of the Leupold E/RT / Nightforce or USO.
Just make sure you are looking at apples and apples. US Optics are all FFP (with the exception of their fixed power optics) whereas Nightforce and Leupold both build SFP and FFP optics.
That's most likely where the price difference comes in. Give Jason Kyle a call at US Optics and have a chat with him. He knows his way around glass, and he's a shooter.
Cheers!
DMack
I have several US Optics SN3's... I find that the 3.2-17 is just about as good as you can get. Absolute reliablity, customer service second to none.
The crew at USO are amazing... and really bring you into the family when you buy one.
They are a small company, and each optic is pretty much built to order if you order direct from US Optics.
I have a few Nightforce as well as some Leupold MK4 as well. All are supurb for what they do.
However, my money is spent in support of USO, all day, every day.
Asking this type of question will drag up discussion similar to "Is DI better than Piston" in the AR world. You won't go wrong with any of the Leupold E/RT / Nightforce or USO.
Just make sure you are looking at apples and apples. US Optics are all FFP (with the exception of their fixed power optics) whereas Nightforce and Leupold both build SFP and FFP optics.
That's most likely where the price difference comes in. Give Jason Kyle a call at US Optics and have a chat with him. He knows his way around glass, and he's a shooter.
Cheers!
DMack
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I have 5 USO and I would not change. I also use a Leupold at work but that will change soon. Getting 5 USO for work in May-June.
Customer service is second to none. I tried to talk with premier Optics and they sent me to a dealer and would not deal directly with the Police Dept.
I have 5 USO and I would not change. I also use a Leupold at work but that will change soon. Getting 5 USO for work in May-June.
Customer service is second to none. I tried to talk with premier Optics and they sent me to a dealer and would not deal directly with the Police Dept.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I've done a lot of research on many LR tactical scopes, and I think its very difficult to go wrong when purchasing one. Choosing between Leupold, NF, and USO, I would recommend the USO because I have heard that they have great glass and the scopes are pretty much bombproof. Nightforce is also a great choice, and though I've never had a Leupold tactical scope (but I do use leupolds for hunting purposes), Ive heard that the Leupolds are (slightly) lower quality than NF or USO.
I've done a lot of research on many LR tactical scopes, and I think its very difficult to go wrong when purchasing one. Choosing between Leupold, NF, and USO, I would recommend the USO because I have heard that they have great glass and the scopes are pretty much bombproof. Nightforce is also a great choice, and though I've never had a Leupold tactical scope (but I do use leupolds for hunting purposes), Ive heard that the Leupolds are (slightly) lower quality than NF or USO.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I sold my NF to buy my first USO. I had bought the NF based on a guy I knew that used it and sang its praises. My mistake. I now own three USO's.
My advice is to find a shop close to you or a individual who owns one near you and get to look through one before spending the money. My vote is USO, but you'll be the one looking through it.
I sold my NF to buy my first USO. I had bought the NF based on a guy I knew that used it and sang its praises. My mistake. I now own three USO's.
My advice is to find a shop close to you or a individual who owns one near you and get to look through one before spending the money. My vote is USO, but you'll be the one looking through it.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
from this picture, can you tell who get's my vote? Remember, I offer the best prices on USO
!
from this picture, can you tell who get's my vote? Remember, I offer the best prices on USO
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Owned both USO and NF, now only have 2 SN3s from USO, 1 USO spotter, and another one being built, nice thing about it is that I can customize all 3 differently to each rifle and applications where suitable, and keep some features fixed, like reticle and left windage knob.
I would recommend USO if you can afford it, if not, NF will be the next pick.
Owned both USO and NF, now only have 2 SN3s from USO, 1 USO spotter, and another one being built, nice thing about it is that I can customize all 3 differently to each rifle and applications where suitable, and keep some features fixed, like reticle and left windage knob.
I would recommend USO if you can afford it, if not, NF will be the next pick.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
In my opinion the Leupold is not in the same class as the Nightforce, which is not in the same class as the USO (but close). FFP choices are more limited in Nightforce (for now) and the USO glass is a little better.
In my opinion the Leupold is not in the same class as the Nightforce, which is not in the same class as the USO (but close). FFP choices are more limited in Nightforce (for now) and the USO glass is a little better.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Let me say something about US Optics: I bought a used USO from a SH member about two months ago and when I got it I noticed there was dust in the lens that can be seen at the lower magnification levels. And, the illumination was not quite correct and a little dull. I called USO and they told me to send it in. They called me two weeks later and asked me what illumination color I wanted which I said red as it was green. I then asked them what they did and they told me that they rebuilt the scope and it is as good as new. I then, kind of scared, asked, how much for the rebuild...nothing they told me. I was floored.
That my friends is customer service I can deal with and they now have a customer for life. When I got the scope back it was as they said, it was like brand new. When my shooting friends ask me what scope to buy I tell them this story and then they buy a USO scope. I have since bought another USO scope - 1.8 x 10.
Let me say something about US Optics: I bought a used USO from a SH member about two months ago and when I got it I noticed there was dust in the lens that can be seen at the lower magnification levels. And, the illumination was not quite correct and a little dull. I called USO and they told me to send it in. They called me two weeks later and asked me what illumination color I wanted which I said red as it was green. I then asked them what they did and they told me that they rebuilt the scope and it is as good as new. I then, kind of scared, asked, how much for the rebuild...nothing they told me. I was floored.
That my friends is customer service I can deal with and they now have a customer for life. When I got the scope back it was as they said, it was like brand new. When my shooting friends ask me what scope to buy I tell them this story and then they buy a USO scope. I have since bought another USO scope - 1.8 x 10.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I own a SN-3 and a mark 4. I wont even throw the mark 4 into this discussion because of the mark 6. I love my SN-3 and would gladly buy another. But i want to try the new Mark 6 3-18x44mm, i'm interested to see for myself how far leupold has come from the Mark 4s. That being said NF always has good reviews as well but the F1 is around the same price as a SN-3 and i'd rather have my choice of knobs, reticles, parallax, etc. between those two. So the SN-3 would get my vote.
I own a SN-3 and a mark 4. I wont even throw the mark 4 into this discussion because of the mark 6. I love my SN-3 and would gladly buy another. But i want to try the new Mark 6 3-18x44mm, i'm interested to see for myself how far leupold has come from the Mark 4s. That being said NF always has good reviews as well but the F1 is around the same price as a SN-3 and i'd rather have my choice of knobs, reticles, parallax, etc. between those two. So the SN-3 would get my vote.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Not the same money, and not the same level of customer service.
You are in SoCal, why not go visit them, you will see what I mean.
Not the same money, and not the same level of customer service.
You are in SoCal, why not go visit them, you will see what I mean.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
</div></div>
Where is the same money coming in line? USOs are what 2500$ for a SN-3 (ergo config) S&Bs are 3200$ for 4-16x42mm.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
</div></div>
Where is the same money coming in line? USOs are what 2500$ for a SN-3 (ergo config) S&Bs are 3200$ for 4-16x42mm.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
</div></div>
Where is the same money coming in line? USOs are what 2500$ S&Bs are 3200$ for 4-16x42mm.</div></div>
and less if you order from me
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackops_2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: YAOG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you can afford it ... US Optics are exceptional and dont forget SB. I own NightForce but my next scope will be US Optics. Buy once cry once. </div></div>
Using that model and the fact that you know about S&B why would you buy a USO? Don't get me wrong here given these brands USO would be my choice too but for about the same money Premier and S&B in my experience have more consistent quality control (optics and mechanical) and better out of the box track records.
</div></div>
Where is the same money coming in line? USOs are what 2500$ S&Bs are 3200$ for 4-16x42mm.</div></div>
and less if you order from me
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
go nightforce, most bang for your buck out of the 3. we sold over a thousand nightforce scopes last year, everyone who runs them loves them.
why pay 500$ more for the same performance.
go nightforce, most bang for your buck out of the 3. we sold over a thousand nightforce scopes last year, everyone who runs them loves them.
why pay 500$ more for the same performance.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I had a couple NF's and ended up ordering a USO 3.2-17 TPAL based on what I read on this forum. After receiving it I noticed the following-
EREK knob was great. Awesome clicks, very distinct.
Glass was not what I was expecting. Did a resolution test to make sure it wasn't just me. It wasn't, the glass was lacking.
Windage knob (US #1) was vague. For as great as the EREK knob was, the windage was dissapointing.
Overall fit/finish was good, I liked the mag ring and parallax adjustments.
After living with it for a few months I decided to sell it and ended up with another NF. I didn't feel it was up to par with NF overall, but other guys feel completely the opposite. In fact, some guys will say their USO glass is on par with S&B. Mine was not even close, which leads me to believe there's quite a variance in what USO puts out.
I had a couple NF's and ended up ordering a USO 3.2-17 TPAL based on what I read on this forum. After receiving it I noticed the following-
EREK knob was great. Awesome clicks, very distinct.
Glass was not what I was expecting. Did a resolution test to make sure it wasn't just me. It wasn't, the glass was lacking.
Windage knob (US #1) was vague. For as great as the EREK knob was, the windage was dissapointing.
Overall fit/finish was good, I liked the mag ring and parallax adjustments.
After living with it for a few months I decided to sell it and ended up with another NF. I didn't feel it was up to par with NF overall, but other guys feel completely the opposite. In fact, some guys will say their USO glass is on par with S&B. Mine was not even close, which leads me to believe there's quite a variance in what USO puts out.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Comparably equipped with 34mm tube, EREK (to make up for the less good clicks) illuminated Gen 2 XR reticle etc. they are under $100 apart at MSRP.
I've been to USO's plant and walked all around it for an hour and I like the guys at USO, they have a can do attitude and try really hard. But IMO they are weak in terms of final quality control and may be a bit flexible as to what is good enough to pass.
Like I posted above IMO among the choices given by the OP USO would by my choice. But given what I have seen and know about USO for the same money given the choice I would purchase a Premier.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Target In Sight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not the same money, and not the same level of customer service.
You are in SoCal, why not go visit them, you will see what I mean.
</div></div>
Comparably equipped with 34mm tube, EREK (to make up for the less good clicks) illuminated Gen 2 XR reticle etc. they are under $100 apart at MSRP.
I've been to USO's plant and walked all around it for an hour and I like the guys at USO, they have a can do attitude and try really hard. But IMO they are weak in terms of final quality control and may be a bit flexible as to what is good enough to pass.
Like I posted above IMO among the choices given by the OP USO would by my choice. But given what I have seen and know about USO for the same money given the choice I would purchase a Premier.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Target In Sight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not the same money, and not the same level of customer service.
You are in SoCal, why not go visit them, you will see what I mean.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
that's a lot more replies than I expected in such a short time...
a lot of happy USO owners, and a good story about customer service.. though I tend to wonder how good that might be for someone like me, north of the 49th.
I hadn't heard about the Mark 6... new for this year?
that's a lot more replies than I expected in such a short time...
a lot of happy USO owners, and a good story about customer service.. though I tend to wonder how good that might be for someone like me, north of the 49th.
I hadn't heard about the Mark 6... new for this year?
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that's a lot more replies than I expected in such a short time...
a lot of happy USO owners, and a good story about customer service.. though I tend to wonder how good that might be for someone like me, north of the 49th.
I hadn't heard about the Mark 6... new for this year?</div></div>
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I've been eager to see Leupold's offerings since LL reviewed the Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm (locking turret/3000$ price tag) and the Mark 8. And now Leupold has introduced the Mark 6 line which seems to be aimed at competing with the NF F1, USO SN-3, S&B PII, etc. Pricing was rumored just shy under 2000$ IIRC? Will probably be right around the same price as the scopes it's competing with though. But one can dream because if that scope turned out to be around 1600$-1800$ i would jump on one. There has been some very positive feedback of leupold's "new" tactical line and they've seemed to taken a 180 degree turn from what they what they were producing and now putting out top notch stuff. I personally would wait till the mark 6s hit market just to widen my options and see how they turn out. If you don't have the time, go for USO, as i said i love my SN-3 and have no complaints.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
and less if you order from me
</div></div>
This also ^
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that's a lot more replies than I expected in such a short time...
a lot of happy USO owners, and a good story about customer service.. though I tend to wonder how good that might be for someone like me, north of the 49th.
I hadn't heard about the Mark 6... new for this year?</div></div>
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I've been eager to see Leupold's offerings since LL reviewed the Mark 4 6.5-20x50mm (locking turret/3000$ price tag) and the Mark 8. And now Leupold has introduced the Mark 6 line which seems to be aimed at competing with the NF F1, USO SN-3, S&B PII, etc. Pricing was rumored just shy under 2000$ IIRC? Will probably be right around the same price as the scopes it's competing with though. But one can dream because if that scope turned out to be around 1600$-1800$ i would jump on one. There has been some very positive feedback of leupold's "new" tactical line and they've seemed to taken a 180 degree turn from what they what they were producing and now putting out top notch stuff. I personally would wait till the mark 6s hit market just to widen my options and see how they turn out. If you don't have the time, go for USO, as i said i love my SN-3 and have no complaints.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lazy21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
and less if you order from me
This also ^
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
FWIW I have a USO sn3 5-25x and all I can really comment on is that their customer service is great. As I am new to shooting I went with USO over the S&B because I felt like they are more helpful and more willing fix or repair stuff and do so faster than the European companies might. With that being said I have not owned a S&B yet.
Since the OP asked about Nightforce and Leupold I don't think their fit finish even compare to USO but what do I know.
FWIW I have a USO sn3 5-25x and all I can really comment on is that their customer service is great. As I am new to shooting I went with USO over the S&B because I felt like they are more helpful and more willing fix or repair stuff and do so faster than the European companies might. With that being said I have not owned a S&B yet.
Since the OP asked about Nightforce and Leupold I don't think their fit finish even compare to USO but what do I know.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I own NFs, USO, Premier and S&B scopes. Of your provided choices, if price is not a huge concern, I would pick USO over NF. I don't think Leupoid compares, but that is just my opinion.
USO because of the vast choices of reticles, turrets and ability to customize your scope. Also because of slightly lower profile with 44mm for USO vs 50 or 56mm tube for NF.
As far as glass, I heard that USO can be variable, but the ones I have all are crisper than my NFs.
I also like the way you zero the USO vs. NF, to me the USO is easier to fine adjust. For the NF if your zero is right in between the clicks, it is a pain. I know we are talking about a small adjustment, but precision is important.
I own NFs, USO, Premier and S&B scopes. Of your provided choices, if price is not a huge concern, I would pick USO over NF. I don't think Leupoid compares, but that is just my opinion.
USO because of the vast choices of reticles, turrets and ability to customize your scope. Also because of slightly lower profile with 44mm for USO vs 50 or 56mm tube for NF.
As far as glass, I heard that USO can be variable, but the ones I have all are crisper than my NFs.
I also like the way you zero the USO vs. NF, to me the USO is easier to fine adjust. For the NF if your zero is right in between the clicks, it is a pain. I know we are talking about a small adjustment, but precision is important.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
How the heck can anyone answer the question without knowing what rifle it will go on? Or for that matter what its going to be used for.
I know everyone loves FFP on this sight, but the SFF are better for 90% of shooting. I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).
I would love to own a USO scope but yet to find a reason or rifle to put one on. Same reason I don't own a S&B. Both are heavy. Leupold might have got their act together to give NF a run for their money but neither have the best glass. Even some of the less expensive competition looks as good. Anyway both Zeiss as in the Victory, and Swaro, glass wise will blow all of them away.
Match the calibre to what you shoot at. Match the rifle to how you are going to use it. Finally match the scope to the rifle. If a USO scope matches it all then buy that, or the NF if it matches better.
How the heck can anyone answer the question without knowing what rifle it will go on? Or for that matter what its going to be used for.
I know everyone loves FFP on this sight, but the SFF are better for 90% of shooting. I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).
I would love to own a USO scope but yet to find a reason or rifle to put one on. Same reason I don't own a S&B. Both are heavy. Leupold might have got their act together to give NF a run for their money but neither have the best glass. Even some of the less expensive competition looks as good. Anyway both Zeiss as in the Victory, and Swaro, glass wise will blow all of them away.
Match the calibre to what you shoot at. Match the rifle to how you are going to use it. Finally match the scope to the rifle. If a USO scope matches it all then buy that, or the NF if it matches better.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
on a good day, bright sky, clear conditions all these scopes mentioned perform well. and with your Mk1 eyeball, a person could not tell the difference or choose a superior optic from the bunch.
however, on bad days, rain falling, or lowlight conditions, or fog, or high heat with lots of ground mirage, etc.,
there are clear differences -
having recently just completed a side by side look at Vortex, Leupold, IOR and Schmidt Bender, there are some superior optics out there.
pushing the price beyond features, you would expect what ?
i would expect, world class mechanicals, tracking, return to zero, spot on adjustments (one mil=one mil etc)
and world class glass. not cloudy, no aberrations, no edge anomalies, accurate color rendition (green is green, shade/hue is accurate, etc)
if you are asking questions about optics, ask about folks who have used their scopes in alot of different conditions, and still like the optic that is riding their rifle.
and another telling point is take notice of what brands are being sold more of , than others here on the Hide .... why is that ? only so many options really,
1. they don't like it
2. it's not what they expected
3. spent too much or need the money back
4. discovered a better optic for less/for more
and finally consider customer service of the optic company -
do you hear horror stories, do they stand behind their product,are they innovative in design, do they offer custom features designed or retro fit, are they employing americans (if thats important to you)
hope that helps
on a good day, bright sky, clear conditions all these scopes mentioned perform well. and with your Mk1 eyeball, a person could not tell the difference or choose a superior optic from the bunch.
however, on bad days, rain falling, or lowlight conditions, or fog, or high heat with lots of ground mirage, etc.,
there are clear differences -
having recently just completed a side by side look at Vortex, Leupold, IOR and Schmidt Bender, there are some superior optics out there.
pushing the price beyond features, you would expect what ?
i would expect, world class mechanicals, tracking, return to zero, spot on adjustments (one mil=one mil etc)
and world class glass. not cloudy, no aberrations, no edge anomalies, accurate color rendition (green is green, shade/hue is accurate, etc)
if you are asking questions about optics, ask about folks who have used their scopes in alot of different conditions, and still like the optic that is riding their rifle.
and another telling point is take notice of what brands are being sold more of , than others here on the Hide .... why is that ? only so many options really,
1. they don't like it
2. it's not what they expected
3. spent too much or need the money back
4. discovered a better optic for less/for more
and finally consider customer service of the optic company -
do you hear horror stories, do they stand behind their product,are they innovative in design, do they offer custom features designed or retro fit, are they employing americans (if thats important to you)
hope that helps
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
No experience with USO but with Nightforce, IOR and Leupold Mark4: NF,despite some withdraws, I like a little more than the IOR, sold the Leupold.
No experience with USO but with Nightforce, IOR and Leupold Mark4: NF,despite some withdraws, I like a little more than the IOR, sold the Leupold.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
For the money, I'd go NF. As a matter of the fact, I have twice. Leupold quit getting my business a few years ago.
But they want it again with their Mark 6. I'd wait and see what the Mark 6 offers, it may topple NF. I've got an S&B PM-II on order, so I'll find out how much better it is than the NF.
For the money of a USO, I'd skip them and go straight to S&B, personally. I do like some of the USO options like reticles, knobs, etc but I don't see any of them being any better than a DT S&B knob. Perhaps the GAP reticle may be something a guy really wants and that would be the only reason to go USO over S&B to me. However, if the reticle is the main thing a person wants, a guy could look at the new Bushy HDMR. Seems its all a compromise, in money, options, etc.
For the money, I'd go NF. As a matter of the fact, I have twice. Leupold quit getting my business a few years ago.
But they want it again with their Mark 6. I'd wait and see what the Mark 6 offers, it may topple NF. I've got an S&B PM-II on order, so I'll find out how much better it is than the NF.
For the money of a USO, I'd skip them and go straight to S&B, personally. I do like some of the USO options like reticles, knobs, etc but I don't see any of them being any better than a DT S&B knob. Perhaps the GAP reticle may be something a guy really wants and that would be the only reason to go USO over S&B to me. However, if the reticle is the main thing a person wants, a guy could look at the new Bushy HDMR. Seems its all a compromise, in money, options, etc.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at purchasing either a US Optics SN3 3.2-17, or a comparable nightforce or Mark 4. In Canada the price seems to be about $1000 or a little more for the US Optics over the Leupold or NF. I'd like some feedback from someone who owns any of these. Thanks in advance. </div></div>
So what do you plan to do with this new scope? Is the scope for paper punching, tactical type uses or hunting some of each? Do you know the real differences in capabilities andadvantages and disadvantages between first and second focal plane scopes? Are you sure that the magnification range is appropriate for you usage? Why these brands only?
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm looking at purchasing either a US Optics SN3 3.2-17, or a comparable nightforce or Mark 4. In Canada the price seems to be about $1000 or a little more for the US Optics over the Leupold or NF. I'd like some feedback from someone who owns any of these. Thanks in advance. </div></div>
So what do you plan to do with this new scope? Is the scope for paper punching, tactical type uses or hunting some of each? Do you know the real differences in capabilities andadvantages and disadvantages between first and second focal plane scopes? Are you sure that the magnification range is appropriate for you usage? Why these brands only?
HTH!
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
This is pretty much what I found to be true. USO is totally the way to go if you know what you want on a scope. Fantastic options and build flexibity but inconsistent execution and final QC even today ISO 900X certification or not. The USO people are happy to fix what they messed up on but it can take a few trips to get it really right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a couple NF's and ended up ordering a USO 3.2-17 TPAL based on what I read on this forum. After receiving it I noticed the following-
EREK knob was great. Awesome clicks, very distinct.
Glass was not what I was expecting. Did a resolution test to make sure it wasn't just me. It wasn't, the glass was lacking.
Windage knob (US #1) was vague. For as great as the EREK knob was, the windage was dissapointing.
Overall fit/finish was good, I liked the mag ring and parallax adjustments.
After living with it for a few months I decided to sell it and ended up with another NF. I didn't feel it was up to par with NF overall, but other guys feel completely the opposite. In fact, some guys will say their USO glass is on par with S&B. Mine was not even close, which leads me to believe there's quite a variance in what USO puts out. </div></div>
This is pretty much what I found to be true. USO is totally the way to go if you know what you want on a scope. Fantastic options and build flexibity but inconsistent execution and final QC even today ISO 900X certification or not. The USO people are happy to fix what they messed up on but it can take a few trips to get it really right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 71firebird400</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a couple NF's and ended up ordering a USO 3.2-17 TPAL based on what I read on this forum. After receiving it I noticed the following-
EREK knob was great. Awesome clicks, very distinct.
Glass was not what I was expecting. Did a resolution test to make sure it wasn't just me. It wasn't, the glass was lacking.
Windage knob (US #1) was vague. For as great as the EREK knob was, the windage was dissapointing.
Overall fit/finish was good, I liked the mag ring and parallax adjustments.
After living with it for a few months I decided to sell it and ended up with another NF. I didn't feel it was up to par with NF overall, but other guys feel completely the opposite. In fact, some guys will say their USO glass is on par with S&B. Mine was not even close, which leads me to believe there's quite a variance in what USO puts out. </div></div>
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Paper or steel targets out to 1000 yards on a custom-built Lilja barrelled .308 throated for 175gr SMK.
Yes, I'm sure magnification range is appropriate. Was going to go with a fixed 10x, but last time I was out shooting, I was acutely aware of how hard it is to see where you hit with even a 12x scope. Though I can hit 2moa at 780 yards with the rifle, the scope that's on it right now is severely limiting, as I can't make more minute corrections.
and as to why these three brands, they're available in Canada with a minimum of hassle. Remember we don't have the options you do in the US.
Paper or steel targets out to 1000 yards on a custom-built Lilja barrelled .308 throated for 175gr SMK.
Yes, I'm sure magnification range is appropriate. Was going to go with a fixed 10x, but last time I was out shooting, I was acutely aware of how hard it is to see where you hit with even a 12x scope. Though I can hit 2moa at 780 yards with the rifle, the scope that's on it right now is severely limiting, as I can't make more minute corrections.
and as to why these three brands, they're available in Canada with a minimum of hassle. Remember we don't have the options you do in the US.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.
I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.</div></div>
WTF?!? I hope that's just some bad dinner talking!! Is there something that you don't like about the Schmidt, or do you think they're overpriced, or what? Because they're clearly the benchmark for scopes. If you have an opportunity to get behind on ein the field I highly recommend it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.</div></div>
WTF?!? I hope that's just some bad dinner talking!! Is there something that you don't like about the Schmidt, or do you think they're overpriced, or what? Because they're clearly the benchmark for scopes. If you have an opportunity to get behind on ein the field I highly recommend it.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I would think S&B is out of his price range as the scopes he mentioned around 2200-2500$ the S&B is 700$ more give or take. As Rob said have you considered the Razor last i checked it could be had at around 2000$ and your wrong to assume it's not in the same class range as NF, USO SN-3, or Leupy. It's right there with them.
Unless of course your talking magnification.
I would think S&B is out of his price range as the scopes he mentioned around 2200-2500$ the S&B is 700$ more give or take. As Rob said have you considered the Razor last i checked it could be had at around 2000$ and your wrong to assume it's not in the same class range as NF, USO SN-3, or Leupy. It's right there with them.
Unless of course your talking magnification.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How the heck can anyone answer the question without knowing what rifle it will go on? Or for that matter what its going to be used for.</div></div>
I asked and I think he answers above.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know everyone loves FFP on this sight, but the SFF are better for 90% of shooting. I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).</div></div>
If EVERYONE on the Hide loved FFP scopes they would only be buying a handfull of scopes. Most of the European scope makers selling tactical scopes sell mostly FFP scopes because for tactical use FFP scopes with matching reticle controls (milrad AND MOA based) have a significant advantage when using DOPE for a followup shot over a SFP scope.
Ignorance and a large number of people with huge investments in stuff that has become obsolete is one of the largest causes for so many threads being locked on the Hide and other tactical websites. I see people here and elsewhere who learned how to do something one way to overcome the limitations of their equipment or the equipment available to them at the time and who are unwilling and/or incapable of adapting frequently find themselves defending their positions to their death. This seem silly to me as better equipment and methods historically have always won over time as people become better educated and the old equipment becomes degraded, intolerable to use and/or inoperable.
The traditional American market historically has largely been for hunting scopes for north american game. For that task where the target is a large 10" circle from 100-300 yards using a SFP scope is much simpler and makes a lot of sense for many people who may not be heavily trained.
If you look at the optics for sale you can see that people here buy just about everything made both SFP and FFP. Of course for a website dedicated to tactical and precision shooting as time has gone by and more people became educated about the practical differences between SFP and FFP scopes people have started to look for and demand more and more FFP scopes given the nature of the website's focus.
AFAIK there is no way to use a map or a GPS unit to range a small target a few hundred yards away. Please explain how you manage to do this as I'm always open to new methods.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to own a USO scope but yet to find a reason or rifle to put one on. Same reason I don't own a S&B. Both are heavy. Leupold might have got their act together to give NF a run for their money but neither have the best glass. Even some of the less expensive competition looks as good. Anyway both Zeiss as in the Victory, and Swaro, glass wise will blow all of them away.
Match the calibre to what you shoot at. Match the rifle to how you are going to use it. Finally match the scope to the rifle. If a USO scope matches it all then buy that, or the NF if it matches better. </div></div>
If you don't see any reason to buy and use the best optics then keep using whatever you are using now to shoot at your known distances of a couple hundred yards. To suggest that scopes that are a few ounces heavier than whatever you are using are too heavy and bulky and that whatever you are using are as durable as the best tactical scopes on the market suggests to me you don't get out in the field much and that you need to step up your fittness routines and lay off the Big-Macs.
HTH!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How the heck can anyone answer the question without knowing what rifle it will go on? Or for that matter what its going to be used for.</div></div>
I asked and I think he answers above.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know everyone loves FFP on this sight, but the SFF are better for 90% of shooting. I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).</div></div>
If EVERYONE on the Hide loved FFP scopes they would only be buying a handfull of scopes. Most of the European scope makers selling tactical scopes sell mostly FFP scopes because for tactical use FFP scopes with matching reticle controls (milrad AND MOA based) have a significant advantage when using DOPE for a followup shot over a SFP scope.
Ignorance and a large number of people with huge investments in stuff that has become obsolete is one of the largest causes for so many threads being locked on the Hide and other tactical websites. I see people here and elsewhere who learned how to do something one way to overcome the limitations of their equipment or the equipment available to them at the time and who are unwilling and/or incapable of adapting frequently find themselves defending their positions to their death. This seem silly to me as better equipment and methods historically have always won over time as people become better educated and the old equipment becomes degraded, intolerable to use and/or inoperable.
The traditional American market historically has largely been for hunting scopes for north american game. For that task where the target is a large 10" circle from 100-300 yards using a SFP scope is much simpler and makes a lot of sense for many people who may not be heavily trained.
If you look at the optics for sale you can see that people here buy just about everything made both SFP and FFP. Of course for a website dedicated to tactical and precision shooting as time has gone by and more people became educated about the practical differences between SFP and FFP scopes people have started to look for and demand more and more FFP scopes given the nature of the website's focus.
AFAIK there is no way to use a map or a GPS unit to range a small target a few hundred yards away. Please explain how you manage to do this as I'm always open to new methods.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to own a USO scope but yet to find a reason or rifle to put one on. Same reason I don't own a S&B. Both are heavy. Leupold might have got their act together to give NF a run for their money but neither have the best glass. Even some of the less expensive competition looks as good. Anyway both Zeiss as in the Victory, and Swaro, glass wise will blow all of them away.
Match the calibre to what you shoot at. Match the rifle to how you are going to use it. Finally match the scope to the rifle. If a USO scope matches it all then buy that, or the NF if it matches better. </div></div>
If you don't see any reason to buy and use the best optics then keep using whatever you are using now to shoot at your known distances of a couple hundred yards. To suggest that scopes that are a few ounces heavier than whatever you are using are too heavy and bulky and that whatever you are using are as durable as the best tactical scopes on the market suggests to me you don't get out in the field much and that you need to step up your fittness routines and lay off the Big-Macs.
HTH!
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).</div></div>
The FFP scopes shine when doing corrections, holdovers, engaging movers, etc. A SFP scope is just as good for ranging a target as a FFP scope. If you are using a map/GPS to range targets, I hope you are prepared for a TON of misses. A laser is no doubt the way to go, though you can't always use one.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Muskett</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can't remember ever needing FFP to range find nor found anyone do it regularly (more accurate to use a map/gps or laser).</div></div>
The FFP scopes shine when doing corrections, holdovers, engaging movers, etc. A SFP scope is just as good for ranging a target as a FFP scope. If you are using a map/GPS to range targets, I hope you are prepared for a TON of misses. A laser is no doubt the way to go, though you can't always use one.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.</div></div>
Actually they are. I say that from owning multiple USOs, NF and Leupolds as well as Razors.
As to S&B, if they are too expensive then that's understandable but any other reason you need to read up more on optics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I could get a vortex, but they're not in the class of scope that I'm after. S&B is available as well, but frankly, not all that interested in them.</div></div>
Actually they are. I say that from owning multiple USOs, NF and Leupolds as well as Razors.
As to S&B, if they are too expensive then that's understandable but any other reason you need to read up more on optics.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColoWyo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go Nightforce all the way. </div></div>
Same here. No contest.</div></div>
Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Dustin, you sure opened a can of worms.
Scopes are like ladies.
Everyone has one type they like more than the others.
The decision should come down to your needs on that particular rifle.
You cant compare a 1.8-10 USO to a 5-25 USO.
They are both USO but completely different in terms of usefulness.
Both fill their niche well, but neither does everything great.
So, ask yourself, will I be hunting with this scope?
Bench rest? Running around hills shooting steel?
Engaging bad guys from 10 meters out to 600 meters?
Then after answering these questions, select one or two from each brand that fit that niche.
Leupy, NF and USO are all good scopes.
Leupold is production as is Nightforce, USO is a custom scope builder.
I am partial to USO for several reasons, I wont go into them here.
But I can tell you that the extra $1000 will be noticed where it went when you look through a USO.
And as stated before, the customer service has to be experienced to be believed.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Dustin, you sure opened a can of worms.
Scopes are like ladies.
Everyone has one type they like more than the others.
The decision should come down to your needs on that particular rifle.
You cant compare a 1.8-10 USO to a 5-25 USO.
They are both USO but completely different in terms of usefulness.
Both fill their niche well, but neither does everything great.
So, ask yourself, will I be hunting with this scope?
Bench rest? Running around hills shooting steel?
Engaging bad guys from 10 meters out to 600 meters?
Then after answering these questions, select one or two from each brand that fit that niche.
Leupy, NF and USO are all good scopes.
Leupold is production as is Nightforce, USO is a custom scope builder.
I am partial to USO for several reasons, I wont go into them here.
But I can tell you that the extra $1000 will be noticed where it went when you look through a USO.
And as stated before, the customer service has to be experienced to be believed.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were. </div></div>
Meaning they just quit working. Quit tracking or had tracking issues from the word go, failed to return to zero, wont hold zero, etc...
FWIW, I still have one USO- an MST100, atop of an early M40A3.
Is the "stupid QC stuff" acceptable to you on a $2000+ riflescope? It isnt to me. This seems to be the norm rather than the exception for USO scopes. No doubt they have great CS, as they should, because it sure appears to me they get plenty of practice.....
Im not trying to rip them a new one, but you wanted my opinion.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were. </div></div>
Meaning they just quit working. Quit tracking or had tracking issues from the word go, failed to return to zero, wont hold zero, etc...
FWIW, I still have one USO- an MST100, atop of an early M40A3.
Is the "stupid QC stuff" acceptable to you on a $2000+ riflescope? It isnt to me. This seems to be the norm rather than the exception for USO scopes. No doubt they have great CS, as they should, because it sure appears to me they get plenty of practice.....
Im not trying to rip them a new one, but you wanted my opinion.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were. </div></div>
Meaning they just quit working. Quit tracking or had tracking issues from the word go, failed to return to zero, wont hold zero, etc...
FWIW, I still one USO- an MST100, atop of an early M40A3.
Is the "stupid QC stuff" acceptable to you on a $2000+ riflescope? It isnt to me. This seems to be the norm rather than the exception for USO scopes. No doubt they have great CS, as they should, because it sure appears to me they get plenty of practice.....
Im not trying to rip them a new one, but you wanted my opinion. </div></div>
Huh, good to know. I haven't had that problem yet, but I haven't worked mine very hard.
To answer your question, no the QC stuff is totally unacceptable from a $2000+ scope which is why I now own S&B's. That being said, I have looked through some of their recent stuff, and have had conversations with people in the know, and it does appear that they've really stepped up their game on the QC end.
FWIW, I was talking to some guys from Sako the other day and we were chatting about the PSR contract. According to them, there were about 30 different tests that the scopes were put through as a condition of being approved for the contract. When scope manufacturers all submited their scopes for testing, only S&B passed all 30 tests. And I guess the NF was the second runner up and almost passed all the test. I think USO came in 3rd, but I could be wrong.
Suffice to say, the NF is a very sturdy platform and a good scope. I just don't like it's functionality as much as the USO - even though I own neither at this point!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmRM</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: UncleBenji</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
[Really?!? No contest? Have you ever looked through a USO? The NF is a great scope and is rock solid (I owed two), but the field of veiw on the USO and the clarity of glass is better. Additionally, the EREK knob is really hard to beat and is superior to the NF turrets which are smaller. Some of USO's older stuff had poor QC, but they've really upped their game this last year and it's hard to say that they're not one of the best scopes now days. </div></div>
Ive owned plenty of them and seen/known enough of them go TU to say what Ive said with complete confidence.</div></div>
How did they go "TU"? I ask because I'm curious. I hear people say this kind of stuff but I'm not sure what they're exactly talking about. I can tell you about every one of my USO's and the stupid QC stuff on each one that drove me nuts - typically hair and fuzz on the lenses, but I've never had one of them go bad as it were. </div></div>
Meaning they just quit working. Quit tracking or had tracking issues from the word go, failed to return to zero, wont hold zero, etc...
FWIW, I still one USO- an MST100, atop of an early M40A3.
Is the "stupid QC stuff" acceptable to you on a $2000+ riflescope? It isnt to me. This seems to be the norm rather than the exception for USO scopes. No doubt they have great CS, as they should, because it sure appears to me they get plenty of practice.....
Im not trying to rip them a new one, but you wanted my opinion. </div></div>
Huh, good to know. I haven't had that problem yet, but I haven't worked mine very hard.
To answer your question, no the QC stuff is totally unacceptable from a $2000+ scope which is why I now own S&B's. That being said, I have looked through some of their recent stuff, and have had conversations with people in the know, and it does appear that they've really stepped up their game on the QC end.
FWIW, I was talking to some guys from Sako the other day and we were chatting about the PSR contract. According to them, there were about 30 different tests that the scopes were put through as a condition of being approved for the contract. When scope manufacturers all submited their scopes for testing, only S&B passed all 30 tests. And I guess the NF was the second runner up and almost passed all the test. I think USO came in 3rd, but I could be wrong.
Suffice to say, the NF is a very sturdy platform and a good scope. I just don't like it's functionality as much as the USO - even though I own neither at this point!
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
I run my stuff hard, and if it dont make the cut, thats just the way it is. Ill report it as so.
You made a good choice going with the S&Bs. They are excellent scopes.
Maybe USO has picked up where they were lacking? I truely hope they have. Never know, I may take another look at them.
Interested about the Sako tests. Would love to know what they did!
I run my stuff hard, and if it dont make the cut, thats just the way it is. Ill report it as so.
You made a good choice going with the S&Bs. They are excellent scopes.
Maybe USO has picked up where they were lacking? I truely hope they have. Never know, I may take another look at them.
Interested about the Sako tests. Would love to know what they did!
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
The Sako guys seem pretty confident in their design and execution of the M10, and they feel that they're the only real choice - of course what else would they say! That being said, one of the engineers was really interested in DTA's and thinks that they're pretty cool rifles. He even said that he had made some barrels for a guy in Finland that had one, and he asked me what I thought about mine.
He wouldn't give me any insight into how the Sako is doing, but he did say that the PSR contract was originally supposed to be a full rifle and scope together as one unit, but that the US came to conclude pretty quickly that it wasn't possible to combine these two very different manufacturing processes together. However, Sako apparently started working with S&B from the get-go as a joint project to get the PRS contract under its original requirements. But, then the contract got split into rifle and scope seperately and that's when S&B was selected as the scope winner. So, I guess Sako think's they have a pretty good shot at the contract because they worked with S&B from pretty early on.
Well, that's what I know.
The Sako guys seem pretty confident in their design and execution of the M10, and they feel that they're the only real choice - of course what else would they say! That being said, one of the engineers was really interested in DTA's and thinks that they're pretty cool rifles. He even said that he had made some barrels for a guy in Finland that had one, and he asked me what I thought about mine.
He wouldn't give me any insight into how the Sako is doing, but he did say that the PSR contract was originally supposed to be a full rifle and scope together as one unit, but that the US came to conclude pretty quickly that it wasn't possible to combine these two very different manufacturing processes together. However, Sako apparently started working with S&B from the get-go as a joint project to get the PRS contract under its original requirements. But, then the contract got split into rifle and scope seperately and that's when S&B was selected as the scope winner. So, I guess Sako think's they have a pretty good shot at the contract because they worked with S&B from pretty early on.
Well, that's what I know.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
Okay, to answer about the S&B, they're in the same price range as the USO here, which is $1000 at least more than the Nightforce or Leupold. Not dealing in US prices here...
But in regards to the scope, it is simple lack of interest in an overseas product, I know that for Zeiss, we have to send them to Germany for repair, and I'm not sure about it, but I'd expect the same for S&B. Anytime Canada Post has their hands on something of mine I'm never sure I'll get it back.
I'd need proof about Vortex being in the same league and I can't see that one happening. Having sold many Bushnells and Leupolds for Hunting scopes... if anything came back, it was guaranteed to be a bushnell. I know you get what you pay for.
Okay, to answer about the S&B, they're in the same price range as the USO here, which is $1000 at least more than the Nightforce or Leupold. Not dealing in US prices here...
But in regards to the scope, it is simple lack of interest in an overseas product, I know that for Zeiss, we have to send them to Germany for repair, and I'm not sure about it, but I'd expect the same for S&B. Anytime Canada Post has their hands on something of mine I'm never sure I'll get it back.
I'd need proof about Vortex being in the same league and I can't see that one happening. Having sold many Bushnells and Leupolds for Hunting scopes... if anything came back, it was guaranteed to be a bushnell. I know you get what you pay for.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, to answer about the S&B, they're in the same price range as the USO here, which is $1000 at least more than the Nightforce or Leupold. Not dealing in US prices here...
But in regards to the scope, it is simple lack of interest in an overseas product, I know that for Zeiss, we have to send them to Germany for repair, and I'm not sure about it, but I'd expect the same for S&B. Anytime Canada Post has their hands on something of mine I'm never sure I'll get it back.
I'd need proof about Vortex being in the same league and I can't see that one happening. Having sold many Bushnells and Leupolds for Hunting scopes... if anything came back, it was guaranteed to be a bushnell. I know you get what you pay for.</div></div>
Can you ship to the US? S&B has a service center here.
As for the Vortex, guess short of buying them you won't get your "proof" other than people who have used them. I have used more than a couple of all the ones you asked about. Taking S&B out of the mix for now, I would put the NF and Vortex at the top of the heap in a tie. Followed by USO and Leupold.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dustin1984</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Okay, to answer about the S&B, they're in the same price range as the USO here, which is $1000 at least more than the Nightforce or Leupold. Not dealing in US prices here...
But in regards to the scope, it is simple lack of interest in an overseas product, I know that for Zeiss, we have to send them to Germany for repair, and I'm not sure about it, but I'd expect the same for S&B. Anytime Canada Post has their hands on something of mine I'm never sure I'll get it back.
I'd need proof about Vortex being in the same league and I can't see that one happening. Having sold many Bushnells and Leupolds for Hunting scopes... if anything came back, it was guaranteed to be a bushnell. I know you get what you pay for.</div></div>
Can you ship to the US? S&B has a service center here.
As for the Vortex, guess short of buying them you won't get your "proof" other than people who have used them. I have used more than a couple of all the ones you asked about. Taking S&B out of the mix for now, I would put the NF and Vortex at the top of the heap in a tie. Followed by USO and Leupold.
Re: USO vs Leupold vs. Nightforce
YAOG,
So its a custom .308 to push to 1000m. Probably a medium to heavy rifle 13-16lbs all in; to shoot prone only??. Therefore he can put any lump he likes on.
When I was young and fit I could shoot the AI standing and all positions. Now I like my rifles under 13lbs (compression on my lower spine from carry too much weight) and if for stalking under 91/2. If you can't shoot your rifle standing unsupported accurately to 200m in the field then you have got something wrong (.50 is probably the only exception).
FFP or SFP? I used to shoot with the issue AI with S&B scope FFP; now that I have the choice I shoot SFP. My DOPE comes from my notes which are the also marked on my turrets. My rifle so I know what its doing, the rest from my spotter or splash. There are lots of ways to do it. Wrongly or rightly I just want to know "a foot right, a foot low" and then work it from there and which way will depend on how much time I have. Call me old fashioned but I like an uncluttered sight picture; give me a plex. (Think I have about 15 scopes at present, not all are plex but most are). I just want to find the target and have something in the middle thats fine enough to concentrate on.
Europeans made FFP scopes because they are less complicated and easier to get more robust tracking. Both Zeiss and Swaro resisted SFP for years as there are more things to go wrong; well used to be.
When I was "in" I don't think I ever didn't know where I was within a hundred meters. l had a radio and a man on the other end. Even now I shoot over land I know, and have ranged it all out. We used to make up range cards, probably one of the first things we did when arriving at a new place. Still do even if its just in my head.
Very very small targets then its a laser. With Google Earth you can be within 50m of just about anything. Shoot a .300 WSM and point blank is 400m; 308 = 250m. How small are we talking target wise?
I know there are competitions that don't give you range, nor allow for lasers but thats a different story. Shoot those competitions a few times and you will get to know how to deal with them.
.308 to 1000m? This guy needs a scope with both windage and elevation target turrets. That tracks well with plenty of elevation (20MOA mount base??). For reading the conditions and a good sight picture then a 25 mag scope is advisable. If the budget not big then my call would be a NF.
My .308; nothing fancy bar the optics I like:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz128/Muskett_2009/IMG_4487.jpg
Finally, if I needed a really robust scope then I would have both S&B and USO scopes on my short list.
YAOG,
So its a custom .308 to push to 1000m. Probably a medium to heavy rifle 13-16lbs all in; to shoot prone only??. Therefore he can put any lump he likes on.
When I was young and fit I could shoot the AI standing and all positions. Now I like my rifles under 13lbs (compression on my lower spine from carry too much weight) and if for stalking under 91/2. If you can't shoot your rifle standing unsupported accurately to 200m in the field then you have got something wrong (.50 is probably the only exception).
FFP or SFP? I used to shoot with the issue AI with S&B scope FFP; now that I have the choice I shoot SFP. My DOPE comes from my notes which are the also marked on my turrets. My rifle so I know what its doing, the rest from my spotter or splash. There are lots of ways to do it. Wrongly or rightly I just want to know "a foot right, a foot low" and then work it from there and which way will depend on how much time I have. Call me old fashioned but I like an uncluttered sight picture; give me a plex. (Think I have about 15 scopes at present, not all are plex but most are). I just want to find the target and have something in the middle thats fine enough to concentrate on.
Europeans made FFP scopes because they are less complicated and easier to get more robust tracking. Both Zeiss and Swaro resisted SFP for years as there are more things to go wrong; well used to be.
When I was "in" I don't think I ever didn't know where I was within a hundred meters. l had a radio and a man on the other end. Even now I shoot over land I know, and have ranged it all out. We used to make up range cards, probably one of the first things we did when arriving at a new place. Still do even if its just in my head.
Very very small targets then its a laser. With Google Earth you can be within 50m of just about anything. Shoot a .300 WSM and point blank is 400m; 308 = 250m. How small are we talking target wise?
I know there are competitions that don't give you range, nor allow for lasers but thats a different story. Shoot those competitions a few times and you will get to know how to deal with them.
.308 to 1000m? This guy needs a scope with both windage and elevation target turrets. That tracks well with plenty of elevation (20MOA mount base??). For reading the conditions and a good sight picture then a 25 mag scope is advisable. If the budget not big then my call would be a NF.
My .308; nothing fancy bar the optics I like:
http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/zz128/Muskett_2009/IMG_4487.jpg
Finally, if I needed a really robust scope then I would have both S&B and USO scopes on my short list.
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