Suppressors Velocity Increase

Aftermath

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May 14, 2013
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I've been looking and searching through all the threads and I apologize in advance if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I haven't found the info I can relate to.

I have a 20" Kreiger straight (no taper) barreled .223AI I use a 7" TBAC Ultra on.
With the CB brake, I get an average velocity of 2738 fps with 80 gr Berger VLD's.
With the Ultra installed, I get an average velocity of 2817 fps with the same load.
This increase in velocity, along with a change in harmonics (I am guessing, because the 80 fps doesn't account for all), changes the POI by exactly 1 MOA and that is consistent to 600 yards, zero effect on group sizes.
Do any of you see this much increase in velocity with a can? What about the POI vs POA changes?
 
Aftermath,

Flipping through my chronograph logs, I noted the following two results. These were shot on different days and I have noted the temps. I do not know if the ammo was from the same lot, but I believe it was.

Noveske 10.5” 5.56
Black Hills MK262
SilencerCo Omega

Suppressed- 2430fps 74 degrees
Unsuppressed- 2340fps. 60 degrees


I do not have notes on POI shift.
 
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I've been looking and searching through all the threads and I apologize in advance if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I haven't found the info I can relate to.

I have a 20" Kreiger straight (no taper) barreled .223AI I use a 7" TBAC Ultra on.
With the CB brake, I get an average velocity of 2738 fps with 80 gr Berger VLD's.
With the Ultra installed, I get an average velocity of 2817 fps with the same load.
This increase in velocity, along with a change in harmonics (I am guessing, because the 80 fps doesn't account for all), changes the POI by exactly 1 MOA and that is consistent to 600 yards, zero effect on group sizes.
Do any of you see this much increase in velocity with a can? What about the POI vs POA changes?

First off, what are you using to capture the velocity?
 
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I always thought that was what you got from factory ammo and thus another reason to reload your own to get a more consistent round guess its not just hornady that has that problem at 53 cents per round at that time I could easily live with the odd ball faster or slower round just to get twice as much ammo to shoot now at almost 1.90 a round or more , well I am starting to reload my own .
 
I always thought that was what you got from factory ammo and thus another reason to reload your own to get a more consistent round guess its not just hornady that has that problem at 53 cents per round at that time I could easily live with the odd ball faster or slower round just to get twice as much ammo to shoot now at almost 1.90 a round or more , well I am starting to reload my own .
I've NEVER seen ANY .223AI ammunition offered by ANY manufacturer. Have you seen 80 gr Berger VLD in .223AI from an ammo manufacturer? Please point me in that direction.
 
Aftermath,

Flipping through my chronograph logs, I noted the following two results. These were shot on different days and I have noted the temps. I do not know if the ammo was from the same lot, but I believe it was.

Noveske 10.5” 5.56
Black Hills MK262
SilencerCo Omega

Suppressed- 2430fps 74 degrees
Unsuppressed- 2340fps. 60 degrees


I do not have notes on POI shift.
Thank you. It seems my results are very similar.
 
Any time! I can’t say how much of the difference might be from differing environmental factors, but certainly the can made a measurable difference.
 
I've been looking and searching through all the threads and I apologize in advance if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I haven't found the info I can relate to.

I have a 20" Kreiger straight (no taper) barreled .223AI I use a 7" TBAC Ultra on.
With the CB brake, I get an average velocity of 2738 fps with 80 gr Berger VLD's.
With the Ultra installed, I get an average velocity of 2817 fps with the same load.
This increase in velocity, along with a change in harmonics (I am guessing, because the 80 fps doesn't account for all), changes the POI by exactly 1 MOA and that is consistent to 600 yards, zero effect on group sizes.
Do any of you see this much increase in velocity with a can? What about the POI vs POA changes?
Nope. I think something else is causing your velocity to vary. It could be anything from temperature differences outside to humidity on to what kind of chrono you are using. If you shoot one day after three weeks of a dry spell vs the day after a good rain you can get slightly different velocity readings.

If you are using the old school optical type of chrono if you are not aligned exactly the same each time it can account for differences in readings. If you shot it exactly straight on for example it will give one reading, but if you were at a slight angle but still over the sensors the angle will cause a slightly different reading.

(side note: those optical chronos work by measuring the time in between when the plane of the first sensor is broken to the time of the second sensor plane being broken--basically it measures the shadows, so any cant or not exact alignment with to the muzzle can cause small variances in actual distances being measured)

Edit: I see that you are using a magneto speed, with that will impact harmonics a lot depending on the set up. Any time you hang something off the barrel you are going to be changing something up)

In my experience you 'might' get a 5 fps difference with can vs sans can all other things being equal.

If you measured one string on a cold day you will get slightly lesser velocity because cold air is much more dense. If you measure the other on a warmer day the air is 'thinner' and it can give velocity differences. The same thing is true at sea level near the coast with crazy humidity vs shooting at 5,000 feet elevation in the mountains.

As far as harmonics go yes a can will alter the harmonics and 1" is about average depending on the rifle, barrel, can and overall layout. The real trick is, is it consistent? If you put the can on, take a shot, then remove the can and replace it, and take another shot, are your baffles lining up exactly the same every time? This is one reason why I prefer taper mount systems to other mounting solutions. They are rock solid and they are very repeatable.

Also usually with a quality can (all other things being equal) it will tend to shrink group size a bit. The harmonics work a bit different with something hanging off the end of your barrel. In your case you are hanging TWO things off the end of your barrel so it's kind of a flawed test.

At distances beyond 100 yards (or even within 100 yards) exterior environmental factors are all in play. If you have a 5mph cross wind now, and 45 seconds later you don't that will impact your groups at longer ranges. In other words I am saying at 100 yards (generally speaking) you can see tighter groups with a good can. But out at 600 yards there are far too many environmental factors to claim it's all on the can or not at all impacted by the can.
 
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Can you explain what “freebore boost” is?

It would depend on the suppressor caliber and bore caliber of the gun.
Basically.....a suppressor adds faux barrel length to a gun, which will increase velocity of the projectile. But, if you shoot a .223 through a .46 cal suppressor (for example), you probably won't see much of an increase (if any). I have seen it on my 308 with my 30 cal cans, and a little on my 6.5CM.
 
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Adding 6-9” to your barrel is going to give you added FPS.
You shoot a 16” barrel and then switch to a 26” barrel, guess which one has better FPS.
Same principle applies, but with a few limiting factors as SlimJim said above.
 
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Freebore boost. It's a thing.
This is what I had conjectured, coupled with altering barrel harmonics. I am a little surprised that hanging a little bit of titanium off such a short but large diameter rod that has such a tiny hole in it would alter harmonics as much as it does. Always learning.
For whatever reason, using an Ultra 9 on my proof barreled 30Nosler has less increase in velocity. It does alter POI by about 0.75 MOA but also does nothing to group sizes. Both rifles shoot lights out...the .223AI is a quarter minute out to 600. Have not tested it any farther. The 30 Nosler is also quarter minute but I only have about 75 rounds down the tube. I'm on target at 600 but have not walked down to measure groups. I have not actually settled in on a load for this rifle yet but it will be with Berger 210 gr VLD's because I have about 15,000 of them!
 
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Just as an example look at the latest tuner fad/trend. They put the tuner on the muzzle, but how much do they really need to turn the thing to alter harmonics? Not much. 1/8 of a turn or whatnot changes things.

Now add in hanging a suppressor and a chronograph and of course your harmonics will be vastly different in that situation.
 
Just as an example look at the latest tuner fad/trend. They put the tuner on the muzzle, but how much do they really need to turn the thing to alter harmonics? Not much. 1/8 of a turn or whatnot changes things.

Now add in hanging a suppressor and a chronograph and of course your harmonics will be vastly different in that situation.
Yeah but I never shoot for groups with the chronograph on. I have never even met anyone that does. In fact, you are the very first person I have ever heard even insinuate that one should do so.
 
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Yeah but I never shoot for groups with the chronograph on. I have never even met anyone that does. In fact, you are the very first person Ihave ever heard even insinuate that one should do so.
I don't know what gave you any idea that I was even remotely referring to "groups". I said that small things change harmonics. Half or a quarter twist of a tuner, adding a suppressor, or adding a chrono all changes harmonics.

You're apparently wanting your words and thoughts to come out of my mouth.

I didn't mention groups. Not once. You made that up completely out of thin air.

Its basically an accusation against something I never said nor implied.

I said even really small things on your barrel make a difference. Argue with me about that if you want to, but don't add anything about "groups" into the conversation.
 
Nope. I think something else is causing your velocity to vary.

Also usually with a quality can (all other things being equal) it will tend to shrink group size a bit. The harmonics work a bit different with something hanging off the end of your barrel. In your case you are hanging TWO things off the end of your barrel so it's kind of a flawed test.
Now add in hanging a suppressor and a chronograph
along with a change in harmonics
I rest my case. You said add both...and I said, blatantly, the harmonics had been changed in my original post...several other folks confirmed and yet here you are still posting shit.
 
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I rest my case. You said add both...and I said, blatantly, the harmonics had been canged in my original post...several other folks confirmed and yet here you are still posting shit.
That's enough from you. You have no business being here hurling lies and insults. You are first on my ignore list. Congratulations.
 
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5C27529E-AAE9-4618-B437-71DC32480602.jpeg
 
Greetings fellow firearms enthusiast. I see you have exactly one post and joined today. Congratulations for posting to a thread that has been inactive for 3 years with nothing to contribute. If you search a little, you can make other pointless posts to other irrelevant threads and get your post count up to the point where someone may even consider your nonsense as something else. Or, you are a not too smart AI bot.
Arise dead thread.png
 
Greetings fellow firearms enthusiast. I see you have exactly one post and joined today. Congratulations for posting to a thread that has been inactive for 3 years with nothing to contribute. If you search a little, you can make other pointless posts to other irrelevant threads and get your post count up to the point where someone may even consider your nonsense as something else. Or, you are a not too smart AI bot.
View attachment 8324847
I’m just a bot. But I’m learning. It’s why I joined today to learn from smart humans like you.
 
I’m just a bot. But I’m learning. It’s why I joined today to learn from smart humans like you.
Honestly, I’ve always read from snipershide forums and this post was originally interesting to me because right now I have an MPX-K and wolfman can and I’m looking at doing an ILWT barrel swap to get tri-lug and adjustable gas. That being stated I started waffling on barrel length for min maxing velocity/accuracy to usability.

I know it’s splitting hairs but when you spend money the devil is in the details. The post was interesting up until the point people started getting unnecessarily pissy so yeah. Gonna tease on that a bit.