Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

#51
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

While I agree citizens should not be subject to random government intrusion, the Supreme Court has held such stops and 'seizures' are consonant with the Fourth Amendment. MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF STATE POLICE v. SITZ 496 U.S. 444 (1990)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In sum, the balance of the State's interest in preventing drunken driving, the extent to which this system can reasonably be said to advance that interest, and the degree of intrusion upon individual motorists who are briefly stopped, weighs in favor of the state program. We therefore hold that it is consistent with the Fourth Amendment. </div></div>

Unless state law otherwise held, a brief investigatory seizure of the driver was not outside the bounds of the Constitution.

This guy was just looking for trouble. I'm glad the officer did the right thing and did not take this guy's bait.

 
#52
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KIMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: topgun99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... and if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 17pt">-</span>1. Its that attitude that we should all fear most. </div></div>

Another good cop.
 
#53
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We will likely aggravate you back. </div></div>

AHHH yes! Don't you dare question the man.

The sad part is, I can hear about 7 officers saying that as I read it.
</div></div>

Youre not getting it. Its got nothing to do with 'questioning the man'. Its got to do with INTENTIONALLY coming to a check point to try to BAIT 'the man' into doing something. If youre that stupid you deserve what you get.
 
#54
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I don't get it. If go to a checkpoint and you haven't been drinking, you have nothing to worry about. It is that simple. If checkpoints are legal in your state, then the officers are doing nothing wrong. We have done checkpoints in my department and I honestly don't care for them because I think it is more cost effective to just have regular DWI patrols.

The guy on the video was a tool. I agree with what SniperCJ is saying about that. The jackass was trying to start shit.
 
#55
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

We do this shit because state legislatures got bulldozed by MADD and the bible thumpers. So we invent meaningless BAC numbers that proclaim you intoxicated. And when that doesn't produce enough revenue, they lower the numbers.

DUI roadbloacks are just one step away from this:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LQfdSBq7flw"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LQfdSBq7flw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#56
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We will likely aggravate you back. </div></div>

AHHH yes! Don't you dare question the man.
</div></div>

Youre not getting it. Its got nothing to do with 'questioning the man'. Its got to do with INTENTIONALLY coming to a check point to try to BAIT 'the man' into doing something. If youre that stupid you deserve what you get. </div></div>

Actually you're not getting it. When is exercising your rights baiting the police? It's when the police look upon citizens behaving within their rights as 'baiting' that there is a problem. We're not here to make your job easier or to blindly comply. Your job is to uphold the law, not meet quotas or bend the law because if any citizen legally 'baits' you then you aggravate him back. I call that abuse.

Having said all that, the guy in vid was doing his thing in order to illustrate his point which he did very clearly. That's as relevant a lesson in civics and rights as any I've seen. There have been many instances of the police infringing on rights as part of policy and tactics. It's been the vigilant and educated and sometimes exceptionally brave, citizen(s) who have historically addressed the imbalance.

I frankly find it very odd and suspicious that anyone who values their freedoms and rights would look down upon the guy in the vid. He was never rude, never aggressive or disrespectful. He knew and exercised his rights.

What's wrong with that?
 
#58
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

We will likely aggravate you back. </div></div>

AHHH yes! Don't you dare question the man.

The sad part is, I can hear about 7 officers saying that as I read it.
</div></div>

Youre not getting it. Its got nothing to do with 'questioning the man'. Its got to do with INTENTIONALLY coming to a check point to try to BAIT 'the man' into doing something. If youre that stupid you deserve what you get. </div></div>

What exactly was the baiting comment? Stating he does not consent? Asking if he was under arrest?

I missed the part where he dared the officer to open the door, or told him to take him out of the car.

And it seems the whole point of the video was to question authority.
 
#59
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't get it. If go to a checkpoint and you haven't been drinking, you have nothing to worry about. It is that simple. If checkpoints are legal in your state, then the officers are doing nothing wrong. We have done checkpoints in my department and I honestly don't care for them because I think it is more cost effective to just have regular DWI patrols.

The guy on the video was a tool. I agree with what SniperCJ is saying about that. The jackass was trying to start shit. </div></div>

If your not harboring a fugitive you have nothing to hide right?
 
#60
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you that think this guy was right, go live in the middle east and try that. </div></div>

For those of you who think the guy was wrong go live in China or Burma or some other police state where anything less that total, unquestioning surrender to the authorities is the only way to stay alive or out of jail.

Read the early history of the United States... it's not filled with the easy surrender of personal liberties and rights to those in fancy uniforms...
 
#61
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you that think this guy was right, go live in the middle east and try that. </div></div>

Really? Your comparison of the United States is the Middle East?

What else is comparable to the middle east?
 
#63
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"The Supreme Court also stated that motorists who seek to avoid a roadblock may not be stopped and detained merely because they attempted to avoid the roadblock. However, if the motorist commits a vehicle code violation or displays obvious signs of intoxication, there is adequate probable cause to pull over the motorist, after which point general principles of detention and arrest apply."

So you don't have to stop. However, by the actions of the cop in the vid who called the vehicle in front to be stopped, the cop created an illegal barrier and detained the driver and prevented him from driving on.

Slapchop, your reference that driving is a privilege and not a right seems to suggest that citizens are granted that right at the pleasure of LE. That is absurd. You, and other cops, are servants of the public, we are YOUR paymasters and you serve at OUR pleasure. You are not our overlords. It all too often seems that the donning of a uniform means to the wearer that their will shall not be denied. The sole purpose of a DUI roadblock is a regulatory one and to ensure the drivers are not impaired. The driver clearly demonstrated by his actions and speech that he was not impaired. The fact is, he didn't comply with how the officer wanted him to behave and hence the standoff. I've experienced times when cops want the respect shown (demanded) rather than to see the law observed and I've personally been the victim of the police withholding evidence in a traffic violation case brought against me (thankfully the judge saw through their bullshit and threw out the charges).

Cops are not perfect people just because they are cops. Given their roles and the consequences of how they can abuse the power they have they SHOULD be under scrutiny. In reference to your point about video cameras and if the cops do their jobs right - I agree. IF. Until all police officers are perfect and perform their duties perfectly I welcome citizens who use cameras, who question police actions and demand some scrutiny. As there is a need for checks and balances in governance so there is in the enforcement of the law. </div></div>


Yup!!!
 
#64
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We will likely aggravate you back.</div></div>I wouldn't. And I would hope that professionals would not take that kind of thing personally.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Me personally, his refusal would have raised my level of suspicion and trust me there are 101 ways to legally make that guy comply. The problem I saw was cops that don't know the law and don't know what they can or CAN'T do.</div></div>What would you suspect him of and how would that help you make him comply: Please suggest one of the 101 legal ways.
 
#65
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I don't know if this guy was within his rights or not. I don't care either as he looks and acts like a selfish shit stirrer who inevitably is delaying the police and other road users. This clown should spend a week working with a Paramedic crew on a highway.

If one drunk driver is stopped and is prevented from maiming and killing someone elses father, mother, sister, lover whatever, then random checks are a good thing and should be supported by law abiding citizens.

 
#66
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wadevb1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The guy is making an important point. I'm a citizen first and a cop second.

I do have issues with check points. </div></div>

Thank you sir. This has turned into an excellent thread. Thanks to all who have posted. I also support STIFF penalties for drinking and driving. I know that Texas will really stomp you hard, and if you hurt or kill someone in an intoxicated accident you go to prison. As it should be.

Rights come with responsibilities. Thats part of being a good citizen.
 
#67
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can argue that the guy was well within his "rights" and that he did nothing wrong due to the fact that the cop backed down and he went on his way.

Me personally, his refusal would have raised my level of suspicion and trust me there are 101 ways to legally make that guy comply. The problem I saw was cops that don't know the law and don't know what they can or CAN'T do. Lots of cops are also intimidated by video cameras which I find hilarious. If you know your job and do it well, the footage will work against most idiots like this.

Everyone sees videos like this and they love to shout "rah rah rah" "Amendments this, constitution that". If I had a penny for every time I've heard someone say "you can't violate my rights, haven't you heard of the constitution"? Yet when questioned on the very documents that they love to toss around, they all of a sudden get a deer in the headlights look. Most people can't even spell amendment or know how many there are, much less what they stand for.

If you can't be bothered with DWI checkpoints then the simple solution is to not drive. </div></div>

I think your obvious bias has clouded your judgement. Imagine, if you can, that you are not a LEO.

The driver will not get famous from this. I think his intent was to show people that they need not comply to unnecessary harrassment. Most people dont know that police have no right to stop you and detain you without a specific reason. Most people think that they must simply do as they are told. I am not anti LEO, and dont mean to sound like I am. Sometimes LEOs need this explained to them as well. Years of doing these things re-enforce the behavior until everyone believes that it is justified, because it has always happened this way.

To debate whether driving is a right or privilege is moot. People in this country (no others need be discussed as it is off topic) are supposed to be free to come and go as they please. It is not up to the wishes of a community, to restrict free citizens to make themselves feel safer.

The law of the land is the constitution. To violate this is to BE a criminal
 
#68
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I am a cop and believe that road blocks, safety check points, dui check points, license check points, or what ever B.S. name your department chooses to call them are a giant load of crap. That being said, this guy stinks of Soveriegn Citizen. They are a cancer that needs to be removed. They are popping up like mushrooms around here.
Patrick
 
#69
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can argue that the guy was well within his "rights" and that he did nothing wrong due to the fact that the cop backed down and he went on his way.

Me personally, his refusal would have raised my level of suspicion and trust me there are 101 ways to legally make that guy comply. The problem I saw was cops that don't know the law and don't know what they can or CAN'T do. Lots of cops are also intimidated by video cameras which I find hilarious. If you know your job and do it well, the footage will work against most idiots like this.

Everyone sees videos like this and they love to shout "rah rah rah" "Amendments this, constitution that". If I had a penny for every time I've heard someone say "you can't violate my rights, haven't you heard of the constitution"? Yet when questioned on the very documents that they love to toss around, they all of a sudden get a deer in the headlights look. Most people can't even spell amendment or know how many there are, much less what they stand for.

If you can't be bothered with DWI checkpoints then the simple solution is to not drive. </div></div>

I think your obvious bias has clouded your judgement. Imagine, if you can, that you are not a LEO.

The driver will not get famous from this. I think his intent was to show people that they need not comply to unnecessary harrassment. Most people dont know that police have no right to stop you and detain you without a specific reason. Most people think that they must simply do as they are told. I am not anti LEO, and dont mean to sound like I am. Sometimes LEOs need this explained to them as well. Years of doing these things re-enforce the behavior until everyone believes that it is justified, because it has always happened this way.

To debate whether driving is a right or privilege is moot. People in this country (no others need be discussed as it is off topic) are supposed to be free to come and go as they please. It is not up to the wishes of a community, to restrict free citizens to make themselves feel safer.

The law of the land is the constitution. To violate this is to BE a criminal </div></div>

You think that if an officer asks you if you have been drinking is harassment? Shit I've gone through checkpoints before I've become a cop and there's nothing to them. The only people that worry about them are the ones riding dirty or in this case, drunk.
 
#70
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can argue that the guy was well within his "rights" and that he did nothing wrong due to the fact that the cop backed down and he went on his way.

Me personally, his refusal would have raised my level of suspicion and trust me there are 101 ways to legally make that guy comply. The problem I saw was cops that don't know the law and don't know what they can or CAN'T do. Lots of cops are also intimidated by video cameras which I find hilarious. If you know your job and do it well, the footage will work against most idiots like this.

Everyone sees videos like this and they love to shout "rah rah rah" "Amendments this, constitution that". If I had a penny for every time I've heard someone say "you can't violate my rights, haven't you heard of the constitution"? Yet when questioned on the very documents that they love to toss around, they all of a sudden get a deer in the headlights look. Most people can't even spell amendment or know how many there are, much less what they stand for.

If you can't be bothered with DWI checkpoints then the simple solution is to not drive. </div></div>

I think your obvious bias has clouded your judgement. Imagine, if you can, that you are not a LEO.

The driver will not get famous from this. I think his intent was to show people that they need not comply to unnecessary harrassment. Most people dont know that police have no right to stop you and detain you without a specific reason. Most people think that they must simply do as they are told. I am not anti LEO, and dont mean to sound like I am. Sometimes LEOs need this explained to them as well. Years of doing these things re-enforce the behavior until everyone believes that it is justified, because it has always happened this way.

To debate whether driving is a right or privilege is moot. People in this country (no others need be discussed as it is off topic) are supposed to be free to come and go as they please. It is not up to the wishes of a community, to restrict free citizens to make themselves feel safer.

The law of the land is the constitution. To violate this is to BE a criminal </div></div>

You think that if an officer asks you if you have been drinking is harassment? Shit I've gone through checkpoints before I've become a cop and there's nothing to them. The only people that worry about them are the ones riding dirty or in this case, drunk. </div></div>

I think you're being dismissive of my actual point by labeling it something else. To stop someone without cause to believe that the specific person has commited a specific crime is just fishing. It happens all the time, but its illegal.

Sure its just a momentary checkpoint. I have gone through several without incident because I dont want to cause trouble. I just want to be left alone and allowed to go my way. I know the best way to do this is to just comply. This happening to me, and my compliance doesnt make it just or legal. It just means that I know how to get along in a corrupt world without getting myself in trouble. People often call that street smarts.
 
#71
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Code4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If one drunk driver is stopped and is prevented from maiming and killing someone elses father, mother, sister, lover whatever, then random checks are a good thing and should be supported by law abiding citizens.</div></div>Troll alert: I would hope that nobody here supports drunk driving.

But the argument that if it saves one life it's worth it can be used to justify almost any policy: For example, perhaps we should ban all guns and confiscate them. If it saves one life from a criminal act then taking those rights away from everyone else must be a good thing and this should be supported by all law abiding citizens....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Code4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know if this guy was within his rights or not. I don't care either </div></div>Hmmm.....
 
#72
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slapchop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys can argue that the guy was well within his "rights" and that he did nothing wrong due to the fact that the cop backed down and he went on his way.

Me personally, his refusal would have raised my level of suspicion and trust me there are 101 ways to legally make that guy comply. The problem I saw was cops that don't know the law and don't know what they can or CAN'T do. Lots of cops are also intimidated by video cameras which I find hilarious. If you know your job and do it well, the footage will work against most idiots like this.

Everyone sees videos like this and they love to shout "rah rah rah" "Amendments this, constitution that". If I had a penny for every time I've heard someone say "you can't violate my rights, haven't you heard of the constitution"? Yet when questioned on the very documents that they love to toss around, they all of a sudden get a deer in the headlights look. Most people can't even spell amendment or know how many there are, much less what they stand for.

If you can't be bothered with DWI checkpoints then the simple solution is to not drive. </div></div>

I think your obvious bias has clouded your judgement. Imagine, if you can, that you are not a LEO.

The driver will not get famous from this. I think his intent was to show people that they need not comply to unnecessary harrassment. Most people dont know that police have no right to stop you and detain you without a specific reason. Most people think that they must simply do as they are told. I am not anti LEO, and dont mean to sound like I am. Sometimes LEOs need this explained to them as well. Years of doing these things re-enforce the behavior until everyone believes that it is justified, because it has always happened this way.

To debate whether driving is a right or privilege is moot. People in this country (no others need be discussed as it is off topic) are supposed to be free to come and go as they please. It is not up to the wishes of a community, to restrict free citizens to make themselves feel safer.

The law of the land is the constitution. To violate this is to BE a criminal </div></div>

You think that if an officer asks you if you have been drinking is harassment? Shit I've gone through checkpoints before I've become a cop and there's nothing to them. The only people that worry about them are the ones riding dirty or in this case, drunk. </div></div>

I think you're being dismissive of my actual point by labeling it something else. To stop someone without cause to believe that the specific person has commited a specific crime is just fishing. It happens all the time, but its illegal.

Sure its just a momentary checkpoint. I have gone through several without incident because I dont want to cause trouble. I just want to be left alone and allowed to go my way. I know the best way to do this is to just comply. This happening to me, and my compliance doesnt make it just or legal. It just means that I know how to get along in a corrupt world without getting myself in trouble. People often call that street smarts. </div></div>

If checkpoints are legal in your state, then how is it a violation of anything?
 
#73
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Rifleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those of you that think this guy was right, go live in the middle east and try that. </div></div>

Been there, lived there for two years and do not see the relation/relevance. But then the police over there executed people along with the militias at times. So what is your point?
 
#74
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If checkpoints are legal in your state, then how is it a violation of anything? </div></div>

that's not his point. His point is that he goes along with the aspects that are NOT legal - such as mandatory stoppage etc.

The important thing to realize in this thread is that there's no anti-police sentiment, rather, it's PRO-rights and wanting all players - police and citizens to be within their proper remits.

I had a cousin who was killed by a drunk driver. He was barely 18 years when the drunkard killed him. I have the least sympathy for those people and I'm grateful whenever the cops pull a drunkard off the road. But as Graham said, it's not a reason to forego and tread on civil rights of all Americans.
 
#75
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CS1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's another guy that knows his rights. (yes, I know it's fake/comedy)
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/95qZtwJNjxk&feature=youtube_gdata_player"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/95qZtwJNjxk&feature=youtube_gdata_player" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object> </div></div>

That is funny.
 
#76
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If checkpoints are legal in your state, then how is it a violation of anything? </div></div>

that's not his point. His point is that he goes along with the aspects that are NOT legal - such as mandatory stoppage etc.

The important thing to realize in this thread is that there's no anti-police sentiment, rather, it's PRO-rights and wanting all players - police and citizens to be within their proper remits.

I had a cousin who was killed by a drunk driver. He was barely 18 years when the drunkard killed him. I have the least sympathy for those people and I'm grateful whenever the cops pull a drunkard off the road. But as Graham said, it's not a reason to forego and tread on civil rights of all Americans. </div></div>

Again, if it is legal, then there's no reason to give the officers a hard time just because you, or in this case, the jackass in the video, don't think it is a good idea to have checkpoints. In this case the jackass deliberately went through a checkpoint just to start shit. If the jackass has a problem with the checkpoint laws, then he should address it with the lawmakers, not the law enforcers. Cops dont make the laws. I don't personally agree with checkpoints, but if we have them at my department I have to do it.

It is no different than the gun laws here in NJ. They suck and I don't agree with them, but I have to obey them just like everyone else.
 
#77
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If checkpoints are legal in your state, then how is it a violation of anything? </div></div>



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You cannot reasonably claim probable cause to stop people as they pass by, just because they are passing by. I suspect that continuing this discussion like this is going to become silly. The limits on government stated in the constitution supercede any other law. This also prevents a state or community from doing away with jury trials or making religion illegal.


Like I previously said, just because this is the common practice, doesnt make it right or legal, it just makes it so.
 
#78
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If checkpoints are legal in your state, then how is it a violation of anything? </div></div>



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

You cannot reasonably claim probable cause to stop people as they pass by, just because they are passing by. I suspect that continuing this discussion like this is going to become silly. The limits on government stated in the constitution supercede any other law. This also prevents a state or community from doing away with jury trials or making religion illegal.


Like I previously said, just because this is the common practice, doesnt make it right or legal, it just makes it so. </div></div>

If you have a problem with checkpoints, write to your lawmakers.
 
#80
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this discussion ... become silly. </div></div>

Agreed, I bailed out when it became evident that there are those among us whose ideological stance on the issue renders them incapable of understanding those rights reserved by the people.
 
#81
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Nobody seems to pay attention to the case I cited:

The Supreme Court UPHELD under the Fourth Amendment, the use of checkpoints for DUI in 'seizing' citizens under a 3 prong test (government interest, degree of intrusion, and efficacy of method). Although, some states have declined to follow the floor set by the Supreme Court (as is their right).

So unless Nevada explicitly prohibits such, Mr. I-know-my-rights was WRONG about this: States have the right to set up check-points and briefly detain you for a DUI investigation. He did have a right to not say anything, but any such detention amounted more to a terry stop than the 'illegal detention' he keeps prattling on about.

Furthermore, in special circumstances, such as in rail way accidents or Mexican border checkpoints, the State is permitted to depart from a requirement of 'individualized suspicion' before executing a terry stop.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Our precedents have settled that, in certain limited circumstances, the Government's need to discover such latent or hidden conditions, or to prevent their development, is sufficiently compelling to justify the intrusion on privacy entailed by conducting such searches without any measure of individualized suspicion

Nat'l Treasury Employees Union v. Von Raab, 489 U.S. 656, 668, 109 S. Ct. 1384, 1392, 103 L. Ed. 2d 685 (1989)</div></div>

In sum: A DUI checkpoint is 'REASONABLE' under the Fourth Amendment as Interpreted by the Interpreters of the Constitution. What we're seeing here isn't a blatant violation of constitutional rights, but rather a guy who wanted to give the authorities a hard time under the guise of asserting his rights.

 
#82
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this discussion ... become silly. </div></div>

Agreed, I bailed out when it became evident that there are those among us whose ideological stance on the issue renders them incapable of understanding those rights reserved by the people. </div></div>

It has nothing to do with anyone being incapable of understanding the rights reserved by the people. It has to do with jackasses disagreeing with a law and then taking it out on the cops, as in this video with the jackass. If you read the thread, most guys, including us po-po, don't necessarily agree with the checkpoints. What you guys fail to realize it is not the cops who made the laws. Yet the jackass in the video and the guys on this thread agreeing with him are taking it out on the cops and giving them a hard time. I see it at work all the time from parking complaints, to domestic violence issues, to all kinds of other crap. Citizens don't agree with the laws and instead of contacting the people who make the laws, they take it out on us. Gets old after a while.
 
#83
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">Never question authority, Do as your told, Keep moving, Nothing to see here, etc.</span></span>
 
#84
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

If you don't agree with something, be a man, and do not go along with it.

It's pretty fucking simple, and every Man knows this, but few actually do anything other than to continue following the herd for fear of backlash. That is not being a Man, that is being a tool.

It's similar to what the Nazi officers said, 'I was just doing my job, I didn't want to kill Jews.'
 
#85
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pok</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this discussion ... become silly. </div></div>

Agreed, I bailed out when it became evident that there are those among us whose ideological stance on the issue renders them incapable of understanding those rights reserved by the people. </div></div>

It has nothing to do with anyone being incapable of understanding the rights reserved by the people. It has to do with jackasses disagreeing with a law and then taking it out on the cops, as in this video with the jackass. If you read the thread, most guys, including us po-po, don't necessarily agree with the checkpoints. What you guys fail to realize it is not the cops who made the laws. Yet the jackass in the video and the guys on this thread agreeing with him are taking it out on the cops and giving them a hard time. I see it at work all the time from parking complaints, to domestic violence issues, to all kinds of other crap. Citizens don't agree with the laws and instead of contacting the people who make the laws, they take it out on us. Gets old after a while. </div></div>

While I don't doubt that it does get old being on the receiving side of peoples rants about laws that the cops didn't pass. Cops are none-the-less the embodiment of those laws and if said cop grows tired of playing that role and being the public's whipping boy perhaps retirement is in order, it's just part of the job same as if you were told by your dept. to go work a protest protecting those Baptist funeral protesters or a KKK rally. You wouldn't like but you would do it out of respect for your dept. and the laws of the land.

As to your statement about going back and reading the whole thread, (if it was directed at me) go back and read the whole thread, paying specific attention to my many posts. Read my posts closely and you'll see continued support for the officer in question in terms of his good job of simply following the laws and his ability (eventually) to see the bait this guy was fishing with...

This guy is simply protesting in a way that is more effective than holding a sign and chanting. Just look at how much discussion and open thought he has provoked in this forum...
 
#86
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

This is a joke about how we got to where we are now in society.

Put five monkeys in a room. In the middle of the room is a ladder, leading to a bunch of bananas hanging from a hook on the ceiling. Each time a monkey tries to climb the ladder, all the monkeys are sprayed with ice water, which makes them miserable. Soon enough, whenever a monkey attempts to climb the ladder, all of the other monkeys, not wanting to be sprayed, set upon him and beat him up.

Soon, none of the five monkeys ever attempts to climb the ladder. Now one of the original monkeys is then removed, and a new monkey is put in the room. Seeing the bananas and the ladder, he wonders why none of the other monkeys are doing the obvious, but, undaunted, he immediately begins to climb the ladder. All the other monkeys fall upon him and beat him silly. He has no idea why. However, he no longer attempts to climb the ladder.

A second original monkey is removed and replaced. The newcomer again attempts to climb the ladder, but all the other monkeys begin to hammer the senses out of him. This includes the previous new monkey, who, grateful that he's not on the receiving end this time, participates in the beating because all the other monkeys are doing it. However, he has no idea why he's attacking the new monkey.

One by one, all the original monkeys are replaced. Now there are five new monkeys in the room. None of them has ever been sprayed by ice water. None of them attempts to climb the ladder. All of them will enthusiastically beat up any new monkey who tries, without having any idea why.

And that is how company policy gets established!

The point to the main thread is do we really have to keep putting up with the way things are now. I say maybe we take back our individual rights and stop acting like sheep.
 
#87
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you don't agree with something, be a man, and do not go along with it.

It's pretty fucking simple, and every Man knows this, but few actually do anything other than to continue following the herd for fear of backlash. That is not being a Man, that is being a tool.

It's similar to what the Nazi officers said, 'I was just doing my job, I didn't want to kill Jews.' </div></div>

You are comparing legal DWI checkpoints to killing innocent people. Okay. That makes sense. And by the way, I get in more trouble at work for questioning stupid stuff than my whole shift combined. But I don't take it out on my supervisors or anyone else that had nothing go do with the problem.
 
#88
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

The concept is the same, can you see that? One day it's DWI checkpoint, maybe next it's kicking in people's doors at 3AM for whatever other 'legal' reason someone can make up.

Keep passing the buck around, it's not your problem, you had nothing to do with it, why is everyone picking on you...
 
#89
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The concept is the same, can you see that? One day it's DWI checkpoint, maybe next it's kicking in people's doors at 3AM for whatever other 'legal' reason someone can make up.

Keep passing the buck around, it's not your problem, you had nothing to do with it, why is everyone picking on you... </div></div>

You obviously don't realize I work in NJ. We need warrants to do everything now, so we don't do much of anything. So you don't have to worry about us kicking in doors or any other actual Police stuff. The people have spoken in this state and they didn't want us to do anything because we were harassing their kids. Now that their kids are on drugs and heir houses are getting burglarized and crime is at an all-time high, they say were are worthless and we don't do anything. Even though there are laws forbidding us to do anything.
 
#90
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

That has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I am glad to hear you are collecting a paycheck for doing nothing like the rest of the .gov employees.
 
#91
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I am glad to hear you are collecting a paycheck for doing nothing like the rest of the .gov employees. </div></div>

I earn my money doing a ton of reports on after the fact crimes such as burglaries, thefts, etc. So don't worry, your tax money is well at work. We are reactive instead of proactive, just like you guys want, this way we don't violate any of your civil rights.

Happy Easter. I'm going to bed. Just got home from collecting a paycheck.
 
#92
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

A police officers job is as far from easy as it is close to being vital. All the more reason for such a high profile, high impact profession to be filled by those who are concerned with protecting the rights of citizens from infringement by their own as they are in enforcing the law.

That might not be the traditional job of the police but as we have seen recently, the brass, in cooperation with local government have ordered the rank and file to engage in illegal search and seizures. I am here referring to New Orleans.

The citizens MUST have the right and knowledge to say NO to the police when they are wrong. The police MUST know that dissent does not default to criminal behavior or probable cause for 'harassment'.
 
#93
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

RebelYell: Great post...


I guess police are the same everywhere in the world - dogs of a system. And when the systems goes so do the dogs. There might have been a time when police was actually protecting and serving but nowadays (talking about local police) they are more of a lazy ass "tax" collectors and if you're in some deep shit (which involves guns or knives or multiple persons) they will of course have "problems starting car" and arrive just as a dust settles. Also as a society degenerates with less than stellar pay you get "superb" human material as candidates for cops and when you make selection based upon obedience and quota management you get real good doggies. Of course these doggies could care less about your, mine, public interests but they do care about their masters interest very well.
I know few of those dogs (some chose to stop barking and left and some have nowhere to go) and most of them being fairly decent people they work inside a system where they are forced to comply in order to get paycheck but sad thing about it is that a percentage of decent folks inside police force is so fucking low that it's a surprise if you find one with whom you can have a civil dialogue (most have training in authoritative behavior but being of lesser material they can't comprehend that authority is not rudeness and stubbornest) regardless of he's writing you a ticket or not.

As can be seen from comments by certain (i guess) law enforcement people they really have totalitarian tendencies completely unable to grasp the concept of freedom and their job. I find it ironic (and to certain degree funny - forgive me for that if you can
smile.gif
) that USA as a "beacon of freedom" is becoming more and more like Soviet Union in the lead times (50-60) and (the before mentioned funny part) with (as it appears - though media might skew the real picture) majority consent and wishes (so called liberals (some conservatives also) and increasing state control and regulation).
 
#94
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I am glad to hear you are collecting a paycheck for doing nothing like the rest of the .gov employees. </div></div>

I earn my money doing a ton of reports on after the fact crimes such as burglaries, thefts, etc. So don't worry, your tax money is well at work. We are reactive instead of proactive, just like you guys want, this way we don't violate any of your civil rights.

Happy Easter. I'm going to bed. Just got home from collecting a paycheck.</div></div>

I was going to stay out of this until I read this...

You're right, I want you reactive, not proactive. Back in 1990, when I started my career, a LOT of departments were preaching proactive policing. It is not the job is the police to be proactive, that is the job of citizens. The police, and government in general, should react, they should react to the wishes of the citizens, who employ them. Citizens on the other hand should be proactive, they should be vigilant in this as good citizens. Almost everyone in the U.S. has forgetten that citizens have the right of arrest, for any felony which they reasonably believe a person has committed, and any misdemeanor committed in their presence. This should be every citizen's duty IMHO, but they definately have a duty to report, and be a good witness. Police are just an extension of the people. The police should have no power which any citizen does not. They should not be able to carry firearms unless every citizen can. They should definately not be allowed to carry their firearms anywhere that an honest, trained citizen can not.

But I really don't expect most people, and almost all LEO to understand this, which is why I got completely out of anything to do with law enforcement.

Also, we don't need "more officers on the streets" we NEED more people that will stand up and be good citizens, not back down to a tyrannical government, or tyrannical thugs.

We need less sheep
 
#96
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Come on everyone, let's get with the program.

DUI checkpoints are simply a way to keep us all safe from the scourge of drunk driving.

If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear.

In fact, I think we would all be safer if we were forced to wear a helmet when driving. Heck, race car drivers do.

And just to be careful, maybe we should have a tracking device in our cars, so we could be found if necessary. To keep everyone else safe.

Heck, if we save just one person, it's worth it.

Again, this is all simply to keep us safe from ourselves and hey, if we are not doing anything wrong, there is nothing to fear, right?
 
#97
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BALLISTIC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That has little to nothing to do with the topic at hand, but I am glad to hear you are collecting a paycheck for doing nothing like the rest of the .gov employees. </div></div>


touche'
grin.gif
 
#98
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DODGE268</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being said, this guy stinks of Soveriegn Citizen. They are a cancer that needs to be removed. They are popping up like mushrooms around here.</div></div>

As do a couple of the guys that have posted on this thread...

Saw a 'great' dashcam video of a Sovereign Citizen and his son killing two cops in Missouri ( i think) with an AK47. Plus the aftermath of that. Bad stuff
 
#99
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DODGE268</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being said, this guy stinks of Soveriegn Citizen. They are a cancer that needs to be removed. They are popping up like mushrooms around here.</div></div>

As do a couple of the guys that have posted on this thread...

Saw a 'great' dashcam video of a Sovereign Citizen and his son killing two cops in Missouri ( i think) with an AK47. Plus the aftermath of that. Bad stuff </div></div>

So we're going down THAT road are we? Citizens who know and exercise their rights are baiters and now... terrorists? You're either with us or against us...?

You can be a libertarian, you can want the freedom and rights to go as you please, do as you please, so long as it doesn't impinge on the rights and abilities of others to do the same within the framework of a civil society with laws and legislature set down and NOT be a murderous loon.

Some of the LE posters on this thread made a good point - if you as citizens don't agree with a law or police policy then petition your legislature reps to affect the desired change. This is valid. I would also suggest that, you, as LE officers, who are asked to follow and execute orders that you have said you don't necessarily agree with to do the same - publicly - as well as affect change from within your own organizations as well.

Let's be in this together rather than opposing forces.
 
#100
Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DODGE268</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That being said, this guy stinks of Soveriegn Citizen. They are a cancer that needs to be removed. They are popping up like mushrooms around here.</div></div>

As do a couple of the guys that have posted on this thread...

Saw a 'great' dashcam video of a Sovereign Citizen and his son killing two cops in Missouri ( i think) with an AK47. Plus the aftermath of that. Bad stuff </div></div>

Well there it is, the reason all citizens should consent to any search.
 
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