Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

[Teggy1]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please correct me </div></div>

We've been trying to correct you, but you dont seem to comprehend what we're saying. I'll try again...

If some guy wanders into a checkpoint, which I also am not a fan of by the way, and exercises his rights as we have discussed here, I might be a little miffed, but hey whatever. I'm not going to make false threats to arrest him, nor further hamper his movement unless I really think he is impaired, which I could most likely determine through the little conversation through the window.

If he intentionally seeks out a checkpoint with a video camera in an effort to 'prove a point' or aggravate the cops, Michael Moore style, then he's an asshole.

And youre not invited to the bar either. You'd just stir up shit instead of having a civil spirited conversation.

By your logic, Timothy Treadwell didnt deseerve to get eaten by the grizzly bear either huh? </div></div>

You are the one made the first threats of a follow up visit, you've got no room to talk.

Followed by whoever stated there are 101 ways to make the douchebag get out of the car.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>

Try reading the thread before you post. </div></div>

Try the watching the video and give me a time guy was disrespectful.

If you could read just above(just a little bit), I believe we are in agreement on some of the statements made here.

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are the one made the first threats of a follow up visit, you've got no room to talk.

Followed by whoever stated there are 101 ways to make the douchebag get out of the car.
</div></div>

Never said I didnt. And no room to talk about what??

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>

Try reading the thread before you post. </div></div>

Try the watching the video and give me a time guy was disrespectful.

If you could read just above(just a little bit), I believe we are in agreement on some of the statements made here.
</div></div>

Let me help you out.

TEXAGATOR is speaking of the disrespect being displayed in THIS THREAD. He isn't speaking about any disrespect in the video, but of some folks' "relating" modern LE to Nazis, Attack/ Lap dogs, etc.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Your first post:

<span style="color: #FF0000">The next video would have been patrol car video showing him failing to signal a lane change, making a wide right turn, having no front license plate...and being arrested for a traffic violation...</span>

..just sayin..

Your Second post:

Exercising one's rights and purposely showing up at a known DWI checkpoint with a video camera to intentionally aggravate the cops is another.

<span style="color: #FF0000">We will likely aggravate you back.</span>

I guess I was mistaken?

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SniperCJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are the one made the first threats of a follow up visit, you've got no room to talk.

Followed by whoever stated there are 101 ways to make the douchebag get out of the car.
</div></div>

Never said I didnt. And no room to talk about what?? </div></div>

Not being allowed at the bar. You and SLAPCHOP must wait outside.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>

Try reading the thread before you post. </div></div>

Try the watching the video and give me a time guy was disrespectful.

If you could read just above(just a little bit), I believe we are in agreement on some of the statements made here.
</div></div>

Let me help you out.

TEXAGATOR is speaking of the disrespect being displayed in THIS THREAD. He isn't speaking about any disrespect in the video, but of some folks' "relating" modern LE to Nazis, Attack/ Lap dogs, etc.


</div></div>

Your helping me out with what I wrote, and told you to re-read?

Wow, you are useful

 

[RebelYell]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I wonder what would of happened to that guy had he not had a visible camera showing. Would the cop reacted in the same manner? I almost seriously doubt he would have been so courteous...but thats my opinion only.

I have a lot of LE friends, which most are on "our side", the civilians. Had that LE been me I would have busted the guy in the head for just being a jerk. BUT...I am NOT law enforcement and I have been known not to have a lot of patience when it comes to ignorant people.

BUT...I also agree that the attitude of America is to lay down and NOT question a damn thing...that is just plain ignorant.

I believe that guy was trying to prove a point to the "people" and not just trying to give a cop a hard time. People do need to wake the hell up and realize what is happening to our country before we have a "wall" or some other Marxist way of life.

Marxist may not be the right word but I'm just some dumb country boy with an attitude.

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Texagator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>

Try reading the thread before you post. </div></div>

Try the watching the video and give me a time guy </div></div>

My reference to disrespectful behavior was about some of the people posting in this thread, not the man in the video. With all due respect to you, please try to keep up with flow and context of the evolving discussion. We are not communicating well because you are not understanding which posts people are responding to. </div></div>

I have held the same stance from the get go, as well as a few others. The problem seems to be from people who want to switch which conversation they want to reference.

 

[SniperCJ]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I can no longer decide if this thread has become too confusing to follow, or if its just Teggy I cant follow.

Guess as long as Teggy doesnt show up at a checkpoint with a video camera its all good..

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have held the same stance from the get go, as well as a few others. The problem seems to be from people who want to switch which conversation they want to reference. </div></div>

Holy shit.

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SLINKY ERT</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>

Try reading the thread before you post. </div></div>

Try the watching the video and give me a time guy was disrespectful.

If you could read just above(just a little bit), I believe we are in agreement on some of the statements made here.
</div></div>

The jackass was disrespectful in the whole video. Just because he didn't curse at them doesn't mean he wasn't disrespectful. No one told him to show up to the checkpoint to start shit when he knew about the checkpoint in the first place.

 

[smokshwn]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

At which point was there disrespect shown?
</div></div>


The jackass was disrespectful in the whole video. Just because he didn't curse at them doesn't mean he wasn't disrespectful. No one told him to show up to the checkpoint to start shit when he knew about the checkpoint in the first place. </div></div>

While I don't agree with him showing up intentionally, I have a difficult time calling peaceable non compliance disrespectful.

 

[sharac]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Are you even reading yourself???

Disrespectful, jackass idiot!!!??

As i understand it there is no need to talk to police, one can safely say nothing in return. And there are a ton of videos out showing how police reacts to such "non activity". So he is an idiot and deserves a hammering because he is disrespectful and does not speak when spoken to????

And you call my comparisons (which you obviously were able to picture in the worst possible way - aka gulags and stuff - which is end game not start game) insulting and surreal. I call em fair warning boys, i've seen it and to some extent lived it and boy do i tell you thats one fine road to hell you're on but it appears most of you think it a highway to all inclusive beach resort. As i said dog is dog and unable to question his morals/actions can't put himself into 3rd person view and just reacts as he's been conditioned to. I seriously hope you can stand back and reexamine the core beliefs and what freedom really is.

And yes drunk driving is a problem and so is school/mall shooting and as your legislators appear to want is to take away your 2nd and perhaps all of them eventually. You guys have had (as you seem to be throwing it down the drain) good if not the best ever foundation for society the only problem is that somewhere along the line too many monkeys changed...

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

+1. Thank you, SniperCJ, for re-injecting some common sense into this thread.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

+1, Sharac.

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

My take away from the video and particularly the responses from some of the LE posters on this thread is that regardless of which branch of the government - if it is able to wield authority over the common man, that branch must be under the constant vigilance of the citizens or else that authority will become abusive. You see it with social services, some of the automatons at the DMV, the police force, military etc.

At the end of the day, the people get the government and personnel they deserve. Apathetic or weakened societies are breeding grounds for extremists - right or left. For me, I'm going to see about better educating myself about my rights. This was a real wake up call.

 

[Maggot]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EventHorizon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My take away from the video and particularly the responses from some of the LE posters on this thread is that regardless of which branch of the government - if it is able to wield authority over the common man, that branch must be under the constant vigilance of the citizens or else that authority will become abusive. You see it with social services, some of the automatons at the DMV, the police force, military etc.

At the end of the day, the people get the government and personnel they deserve. Apathetic or weakened societies are breeding grounds for extremists - right or left. For me, I'm going to see about better educating myself about my rights. This was a real wake up call. </div></div>

+1. we should end this thread here.

 

[Nessal]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: topgun99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm a cop too and while I understand how both sides feel that guy was a jackass looking for a fight. We do these all the time and have been thanked over and over by the local residents for being there, they want us there. These "checkpoints" are not just for DUI but for narcotics trafficing and burglars. We use them in areas hit by thieves to try and catch them coming or going and it works. It takes one minute to show your license and insurance and if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear. </div></div>


Sorry but that logic is full of fail. It's a very slippery slope once you decide to climb it.

So if a community of people decided that they think it's ok for cops to arrest all muslims because they might be a terrorist it is ok? Just because the majority think it's ok does not make it so.

I can see that some good comes out of these checkpoints...but at the cost of violating ones civil rights is plain wrong. Also who will be the one to say where the limit is? What if the government decided to bust into every house on the block to look for contraband. I mean...you have nothing to hide...why would you be worried right?

Remember what Benjamin Franklin said....

 

[LegioX]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Thanks to Shankster for a great post! I think one thing we can all agree on is the fact that he has generated a good discussion and revealed the diverse points of view held by SH members. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the back and forth discussion in this thread.
Kudos to you Shankster!

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Funny think about Shank, he posts the vid and then never has anything to say about it. That finger that is being dragged under that chicks nose is his after he stirs the shit pot. haha

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Socalsheepdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny think about Shank, he posts the vid and then never has anything to say about it. That finger that is being dragged under that chicks nose is his after he stirs the shit pot. haha </div></div>
I agree, I think Shank just gave us all a dirty Sanchez.
I can see both sides of the arguement here. It is a fact that the public has demanded action in essence demanded an erosion of their essential liberty for a little temporary safety. Now I may not be that public and you may not be that public that asked for this but that doesn't change the fact that we are letting some douchebags run our country into the ground. Many claim we live in a democracy and sadly that has begun to be true. Democracy is mob rule or rule by public opinion. I don't know which Ben Franklin quote was referred to but the one most apt here is what he said when asked what kind of government we had...."a republic, if you can keep it."
Edit: As to the guy making the video...really quite useless. He could better use his time and abilities protesting in a meaningful way rather than trying to piss the cops off. What did he accomplish. If he shows this video at town hall meetings will it illustrate anything? BTW I am not a LEO.

 

[Spazz.]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I think challenging something just for the challenge is missing the point of having that ability. If something is important to you personally, we as Americans are guaranteed the ability to express that point of view. The Bill of Rights details the basic rights we have as humans and, because it's recognized as law here, allows us to exercise those rights.

I'm not going to get all up in arms about being held up for 4 or 5 minutes at a stop like that. I have nothing to hide, so I'll hand the officer my DL, CCL, and POI, thank him for being courteous and go on about my business. If they can snag one DUI, drug runner, or get someone off the road who's driving without insurance that day, it's worth a few minutes of my time.

Would I be pissed about being held up for 10-15+ minutes at a block like that? Yes, because they should have picked a better place to have the checkpoint. On a busy road, it seems like it would be safer and more efficient to have a few patrol cars looking for intoxicated drivers. LEO are supposed to be trained to look for that sort of thing, so why hold up thousands of people to snag a few DUIs or possessions when (if you're doing your job) you could have caught them anyway?

I agree that if Americans don't exercise the rights outlined by the BoR, we may eventually lose them or have them compromised. Is being a dickhead to an officer the right way to do that? Not for me. Is taking up the issue of checkpoints with your AG or representative a better way to use your time? I think so. Exercise your rights where you feel you have should, but to me it's ignorant to go looking for a cause where one doesn't exist. Above all, use common sense.

 

[Immorteq]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I'd be much more on the side of the LE in the video if that sign hadn't remained flat on the ground. It seems the legality of the checkpoint is based on the designation of said checkpoint by posted signage that was intentionally and maliciously absent. If that attitude doesn't deserve a big ol middle finger, we're in trouble.

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I lost all respect for said Freedom Fighter when he didn't go up and ask that Motor why the sign was flat on it's face. He spouts off about how he is not intimidated but won't ask why the signs are not being displayed properly.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

He did not have to ask that to have the right to do what he did. I am pro-LE most of the time, but on this one they were wrong, and it was not his job to correct them. He could have, but he did not have to.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Very interesting video and that guy has some balls. The intro frame states that checkpoints have fewer arrests than regular patrols, so the video is suggesting that LE would be more efficient if it didn't use sobriety checkpoints. However, I'd like to know what this statement means; for example, does it mean that a single officer on patrol makes more DUI arrests on average than a single officer at a checkpoint? Or does it mean that regular patrols makes more arrests than a single checkpoint, when there are many more officers on patrol than there are at checkpoints. The guy in the video may have a point, or not. I'd like to see the second part of it.

 

[Pat M]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

here's another "you must consent" vid
http://www.youtube.com/user/RP4409

 

[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

This may just be another of my crazy ideas but.....the proper place to make the argument that this fine citizen is making is in court. I have said before that I don't agree with road blocks and don't like working them, but pissing off cops on video to make a point is just stupid. I still say this guy has some Soverign Citizen leanings, they love paper, most of which is printed with jibberish. I am the most pro-gun, pro 4th ammendment guy you will ever meet, but this guy is trying to piss off a cop doing his job. That is not cool.
Patrick

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

DODGE268, you have a point, but taking it to court costs significant amounts of money. The government has virtually unlimited money, courtesy of us, whereas most private citizens do not. It is all very well to sit here and critique what this man did, but we do not know whether he had enough money to hire a lawyer, even if he would have. Whether he has Sovereign Citizen leanings or not, he still has certain rights, and his exercising those rights is not wrong.

Aside from that, the signs were deliberately down, which would seem to have made the entire checkpoint illegal.

 

[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Intentionanlly seeking out a cop with the intent of pissing them off is wrong. The guy is a DB. Road blocks are garbage and a lazy way to police. I dont like them. But, what I dislike more than road blocks are people that intentionally seek to bait the police into a situation on video for the intent of making them look bad. I promise I could come to where you, or this guy, works and make you look bad if I wanted to. What good would that do? Being a dick for the sake of being a dick is just silly. As a genreal rule we meet people at the worst times of their lives. If we are there it is pretty much a given that you are having a bad day. The crap that gets spewed at us during these situations rolls off most of the time. I try not to bring personal problems to work as they tend to bleed over into my job. If I'm having a bad day I try to limit my contact with the public as much as possible. The new guys that I train all get the try not to be "that guy" speech. My job is hard enough without ass hole cops making it worse. I am as nice to the people I come into contact with as I can be and still be safe. People like the guy in this video are baiting cops to get a reaction. Sooner or later they are going to bump into the guy who just had his wife take his kids and leave. He will get tuned up. People will be up in arms. The guy with the camera will be happier than a pig in shit. I have little sympathy for people who go looking for trouble. Right or wrong, it usually finds them.
Patrick

 

[Pat M]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DODGE268</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may just be another of my crazy ideas but.....the proper place to make the argument that this fine citizen is making is in court. I have said before that I don't agree with road blocks and don't like working them, but pissing off cops on video to make a point is just stupid. I still say this guy has some Soverign Citizen leanings, they love paper, most of which is printed with jibberish. I am the most pro-gun, pro 4th ammendment guy you will ever meet, but this guy is trying to piss off a cop doing his job. That is not cool.
Patrick </div></div>

"they love paper, most of which is printed with jibberish" sounds like most of the laws,, and tax forms

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Patrick, again, your points are well taken, but I don't think you actually answered the ones I made. You may be completely correct on all of yours, but they do not seem to change the ones I made at all. I did not agree with everything that guy did, but I certainly agreed with some of it. You seem, if I am not mistaken, to be saying that he should have just gone along with whatever the officers wanted him to do, regardless of their rights to do it. Since the signs were deliberately down, wouldn't that have made the whole checkpoint illegal? And wouldn't that fact made the cops stopping anyone for that checkpoint illegal as well?

 

[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I am not saying that he should just go along, he didn't and was allowed to leave. I don't know what the laws are there so I can't comment on the legality of the road block. What I am saying is that he went looking for the road block, then came back to it. He was not just going from A to B, he was looking to make a point, possibly at the peril of a mans job. That, in my opinion, as active ass-hattery. The guy doing the job is not writing policy. That is not the way to get things fixed. I don't belive that the guy is looking for change, he was looking for a lawsuit.
Patrick
and P.S. Pat, I do agree that most of the crap the Feds produce is jibberish. You will find that most local LEO hate to see any of the alphabet groups show up. Stupid usually follows.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I agree that coming back to the roadblock was looking for trouble in a way, but they had said to him that they would arrest him if he did so, so, IMHO, they were the ones who escalated. In his position, I would not have gone back to the roadblock, but I would have asked them exactly what they would have arrested me for if I did come back. Their saying they would arrest him if he came back is a threat, and that is not right. That seems to me to be ass-hattery on their part.

As far as I know, at their location, sobriety checkpoints have to have signs visible in front of them, saying what they are. The two signs were face down on the ground, with a motorcycle cop right next to one of them. so I think we may safely assume that the cops knew the signs were down, and also had no interest in or intention to put them up. This, also, is wrong, whether or not illegal, because the signs would not have been there if the cops had not been told to have them up.

I think the guy was looking to make a point, and perhaps went about making part of his point in an ineffective way, but I still think the rest of what he did showed something very worthwhile about our rights as citizens.

One of my friends had some police officers alter some things in his possession after they pulled him over, to make something that had been completely legal become illegal. The charges were thrown out of court, but my friend did incur some significant legal expenses in having that done, all because certain police officers let their egos supersede their oaths. Since then, he and all of his friends, including me, act a lot differently than we previously did when we are pulled over. We are courteous, and act in compliance with the law, but any police officer who pulls one of us over also needs to be courteous, and also act in compliance with the law, or if not, we will take whatever legal action available to us.

As I have said before, I am mostly pro-LE, but gone are the days when it is safe to assume that all police officers are our friends. Most are, but a few are out only for points, and do not care at all who they harm in the process of getting them. Those few police officers need to be removed from their jobs as soon as possible, because they give all of the good ones a bad reputation in the eyes of some people.

 

[gjantzer]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why not line up all the politicians, and give them mandatory polygraph tests? I suspect that proportion of lying politicians is much higher than the proportion of drunk drivers, and politicians hold our financial futures, and our lives, in their hands. </div></div>

I think this briefly points out the heart of the issue to most citizens. The fact that law makers, lawyers and law enforcement think up the laws, draft the laws, vote on the laws, interpret the laws and enforce the laws without "direct" input of the general public concerns people. Politicians sometimes pass laws that apply to everyone but themselves. Lawyers apply the law in a method that requires use of another lawyer to compete with them. Law enforcement are often not held to the same legal standards as the general public. How many times has a cop car passed you severly exceeding the speed limit with no lights on? Frustration kicks in immediately because you remember that speeding ticket you got for going 8 mph over the speed limit.

Not all politicians are bad
Not all lawyers are bad
Not all cops are bad

But generally speaking, the citizens of this country feel like laws are passed by politicians, interpreted by lawyers and enforced by police to be used against those citizens. Right or wrong, the feeling is widespread. The fact that so many citizens feel threatened by the presence of cops identifies a serious weakness in our legal system.

We all know that a certain number of laws are necessary to maintain order in society. However, there is a serious disconnect between those writing and enforing the laws and those that are supposed to live by them. I think that the disconnect stems from the reality that politicians, lawyers and law enforcement personell are not truely held to the same legal standards. Politicians pass laws that specifically exempt themselves from the law. Lawyers have complicated the laws so much that the average citizen cannot defend themselves against it. Law enforcement personell are not really subject to the traffic laws that they are out there enforcing on a daily basis. When was the last time you saw a police car pulling over another police car for speeding?

I do not really have an idea on how to start fixing this disconnect between citizens and the "law." I do, however, feel that disconnect is building into frustration that can almost be measured.

As for the original video, i cannot possibly understand why law enforcement people watch the video and get so upset. The guy did not break any laws. He did not waste any more of the officers time than the officer allowed him to. The guy was fairly cordial.

In defense of law enforcement personel, i have not had to deal with some of the crimes and individuals that you have. I am sure you are exposed to people and situations that make it difficult to be human sometimes. For that I thank you. However, i do still feel that you should see this video for what it is: an educational tool for citizens and law enforcement alike. The guy has broken no laws. Why get upset? If you are upset the he is making "your" job tougher try to remember that they are "our" laws you are trying to enforce. We're all in this together.

 

[tigerhawk]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

+1

 

[goober]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why not line up all the politicians, and give them mandatory polygraph tests? I suspect that proportion of lying politicians is much higher than the proportion of drunk drivers, and politicians hold our financial futures, and our lives, in their hands. </div></div>

I think this briefly points out the heart of the issue to most citizens. The fact that law makers, lawyers and law enforcement think up the laws, draft the laws, vote on the laws, interpret the laws and enforce the laws without "direct" input of the general public concerns people. Politicians sometimes pass laws that apply to everyone but themselves. Lawyers apply the law in a method that requires use of another lawyer to compete with them. Law enforcement are often not held to the same legal standards as the general public. How many times has a cop car passed you severly exceeding the speed limit with no lights on? Frustration kicks in immediately because you remember that speeding ticket you got for going 8 mph over the speed limit.

Not all politicians are bad
Not all lawyers are bad
Not all cops are bad

But generally speaking, the citizens of this country feel like laws are passed by politicians, interpreted by lawyers and enforced by police to be used against those citizens. Right or wrong, the feeling is widespread. The fact that so many citizens feel threatened by the presence of cops identifies a serious weakness in our legal system.

We all know that a certain number of laws are necessary to maintain order in society. However, there is a serious disconnect between those writing and enforing the laws and those that are supposed to live by them. I think that the disconnect stems from the reality that politicians, lawyers and law enforcement personell are not truely held to the same legal standards. Politicians pass laws that specifically exempt themselves from the law. Lawyers have complicated the laws so much that the average citizen cannot defend themselves against it. Law enforcement personell are not really subject to the traffic laws that they are out there enforcing on a daily basis. When was the last time you saw a police car pulling over another police car for speeding?

I do not really have an idea on how to start fixing this disconnect between citizens and the "law." I do, however, feel that disconnect is building into frustration that can almost be measured.

As for the original video, i cannot possibly understand why law enforcement people watch the video and get so upset. The guy did not break any laws. He did not waste any more of the officers time than the officer allowed him to. The guy was fairly cordial.

In defense of law enforcement personel, i have not had to deal with some of the crimes and individuals that you have. I am sure you are exposed to people and situations that make it difficult to be human sometimes. For that I thank you. However, i do still feel that you should see this video for what it is: an educational tool for citizens and law enforcement alike. The guy has broken no laws. Why get upset? If you are upset the he is making "your" job tougher try to remember that they are "our" laws you are trying to enforce. We're all in this together. </div></div>

What you have written is bang on! "DISCONNECT "It is the way I feel in my own country which is very peaceful but manipulated in the same way your country is that we have a disconnect between state ,police and people .An example people talk of sticking it to the government to get taxes back -taxes they owed but they'll lie and cheat to rip the system --we are the ones they are talking about ripping off but they recognize the Government as private business stealing from the people -what a massive disconnect .I appreciate the good work the police do but they have to learn when to switch off being bully boys when dealing with law abiding folk-apologies to those officers that are already are aware of this and are gentlemen.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gjantzer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Why not line up all the politicians, and give them mandatory polygraph tests? I suspect that proportion of lying politicians is much higher than the proportion of drunk drivers, and politicians hold our financial futures, and our lives, in their hands. </div></div>

I think this briefly points out the heart of the issue to most citizens. The fact that law makers, lawyers and law enforcement think up the laws, draft the laws, vote on the laws, interpret the laws and enforce the laws without "direct" input of the general public concerns people. Politicians sometimes pass laws that apply to everyone but themselves. Lawyers apply the law in a method that requires use of another lawyer to compete with them. Law enforcement are often not held to the same legal standards as the general public. How many times has a cop car passed you severly exceeding the speed limit with no lights on? Frustration kicks in immediately because you remember that speeding ticket you got for going 8 mph over the speed limit.

Not all politicians are bad
Not all lawyers are bad
Not all cops are bad

But generally speaking, the citizens of this country feel like laws are passed by politicians, interpreted by lawyers and enforced by police to be used against those citizens. Right or wrong, the feeling is widespread. The fact that so many citizens feel threatened by the presence of cops identifies a serious weakness in our legal system.

We all know that a certain number of laws are necessary to maintain order in society. However, there is a serious disconnect between those writing and enforing the laws and those that are supposed to live by them. I think that the disconnect stems from the reality that politicians, lawyers and law enforcement personell are not truely held to the same legal standards. Politicians pass laws that specifically exempt themselves from the law. Lawyers have complicated the laws so much that the average citizen cannot defend themselves against it. Law enforcement personell are not really subject to the traffic laws that they are out there enforcing on a daily basis. When was the last time you saw a police car pulling over another police car for speeding?

I do not really have an idea on how to start fixing this disconnect between citizens and the "law." I do, however, feel that disconnect is building into frustration that can almost be measured.

As for the original video, i cannot possibly understand why law enforcement people watch the video and get so upset. The guy did not break any laws. He did not waste any more of the officers time than the officer allowed him to. The guy was fairly cordial.

In defense of law enforcement personel, i have not had to deal with some of the crimes and individuals that you have. I am sure you are exposed to people and situations that make it difficult to be human sometimes. For that I thank you. However, i do still feel that you should see this video for what it is: an educational tool for citizens and law enforcement alike. The guy has broken no laws. Why get upset? If you are upset the he is making "your" job tougher try to remember that they are "our" laws you are trying to enforce. We're all in this together. </div></div>
I couldn't have it said it any better had I spent hours thinking about it. Lawyer's/Politician's/Judges are made from the same ilk. In biblical times they were call Pharisees. Those that are supposed to interpret the laws based upon their interpretations of the law. But sometimes those charged with these interpretations lose their way and start being a hindrance on the system vice a help to society. America has come to that point. I think lawyers should be preserved in a glass case only to break the case in need of law help and then put back in.

 

[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Tigerhawk, I am not really upset at the actions of the driver. I was more responding to the anti cop, Nazi, cops are all out to get you and trample your rights direction the thread was going. When you say not all cops are bad that implies that most are. That bothers me. The disconnect is mostly because of the media slant and stories about asshole cops passed on between friends and sites like this one. The ticket you got for goin 8 over may be BS and I wouldn't normally write it, but.....you were speeding. Which laws would like you like strictly enforced and which not? You may have also missed in my post that I try very hard to train all of my rookies to not be "that guy", the ass hole cop that every body remembers. No one remembers the guy that helped your mom when she was broke down, that's not a fun story. It's very easy to tear someone down and Monday morning quarterback a stop or call that gets passed around on video. You might want to try doing the job or just go on a ride along with you local agency. It's a little more difficult to get everything right when it's you on the stop/call trying to deal with three people telling you three different things and maybe one or more of them trying to do you harm. We have no idea when or if that will happen and try to plan ahead to deal with it if it does. I train to be nice to everyone and have a plan to kill them. Speaking of dissconnect, when was the last time you made an attempt to speak to an officer, other than to point at your friend and say "here's the guy you're looking for" yuk, yuk? I am not just waiting for an opportunity to screw someone over. I do not want to come in to anyones home and "look for contraband". I don't want to take away your guns. I might sit and talk with you about them over a cup of coffee, but remember the dissconnect? If you believe that most cops are bad I can't change that. I have been doing this for 12 years and don't belive that most people are bad. I don't believe in " us and them". It's a job I enjoy but when I'm not doing that job I work in a gun store. I do that to support my gun habit. I think that the us and them dissconect in this thread has been more anti cop than the other way around so far. Cops are people and until you have a specific propblem with a specific cop quit lumping me in with the bad cops that you have heard about.
Thanks,
Patrick

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Everyone that I know that has done a ride along has had a different outlook on the way work and how we are treated, especially with the cameras in the cars. The first thing the ride alongs tell me is that they can't believe the way people talk to us.

As to the comments about us speeding to calls without having our lights and sirens on, I can give you several examples of when and why we do it. We are not disconnected from the public, we are part of the public ourselves. The people that are disconnected are the lawmakers and the public as evident from the ride alongs we had and some of the things they told us about how we handles the calls and about some of the laws and the problems in our city.

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone that I know that has done a ride along has had a different outlook on the way work and how we are treated, especially with the cameras in the cars. The first thing the ride alongs tell me is that they can't believe the way people talk to us. </div></div>

HAHAHAHAHAHA! NO.

I really wish I could elaborate. Every cop I know, both family and friends in multiple states/cities, will openly tell you they have a pud job and pretty much do as they please. Not one has ever said anything, let alone complained, about how hard their job is or the amount of scrutiny they are under.

 

[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

50cal, I wish you could elobrate too. I don't belive you. It's not a "pud job" and I damn sure don't just do what I please. If you want to throw crap like that out, be able to back it up. This is pretty much the attitude I was referring to. I don't know you, but I know you. If the cops you know that say this are family members then your family is a bunch of dill weeds.
Patrick

 

[paulo_santos]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paulosantos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone that I know that has done a ride along has had a different outlook on the way work and how we are treated, especially with the cameras in the cars. The first thing the ride alongs tell me is that they can't believe the way people talk to us. </div></div>

HAHAHAHAHAHA! NO.

I really wish I could elaborate. Every cop I know, both family and friends in multiple states/cities, will openly tell you they have a pud job and pretty much do as they please. Not one has ever said anything, let alone complained, about how hard their job is or the amount of scrutiny they are under. </div></div>

Pud Job??? Wow. When was the last time you were at a funeral of a co-workers mom and seconds later you were dispatched to a fatal accident in which the guy was going 86mph with his 3 month pregnant girlfriend who was killed on impact? Engine came shooting out of the car and still smoking when we got there. Or when was the last time you saw a squashed 4 year old's head that got ran over? Yeah, pud job.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Well I'm not a US citizen or resident so maybe I'm not qualified to comment.... but I do know people who have been involved and hurt in accidents with drunk drivers. In my book anything that prevents this is worth trying.

Personally I have no problem with being stopped and breath checked. Maybe if this guy had the same experience he'd think the same way?

I checked out the second installment of this guys "work". His only other vid is also a whinge about filming LE.

I wholeheartedly endorse those who protect our personal liberties and erosion of freedoms (if he lived in the UK he'd have a field day with CCTV and stop/search!) but he has some agenda/issues and a very negative attitude to LE.

Maybe he is a conviceted offender?

Top marks to the officer for not taking the bait!

Seems to me he is just a nerd with nothing to do but go out looking to provoke a reaction? Or he just gets his jollies posting his face in YouTube?

I mean....who goes round with a camcorder already rigged in the car and pre-printed stuff to hold up to the window?

He'd have been better off staying at home with a girlie mag (or gay mag...he does seem to like watching/filming guys in uniforms?) and a box of tissues and filming himself. Except maybe that wouldn't have lasted as long!

 

[SLINKY ERT]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
HAHAHAHAHAHA! NO.

I really wish I could elaborate. Every cop I know, both family and friends in multiple states/cities, will openly tell you they have a pud job and pretty much do as they please. Not one has ever said anything, let alone complained, about how hard their job is or the amount of scrutiny they are under. </div></div>

I work for a fairly small PD, and I am under constant scrutiny. Not only from my Chief, but from the Commissioners and fellow citizens alike. I really don't mind people approaching me and "complaining" about issues. I can help clear the air from our perspective, and MAYBE change their opinions. If nothing else, it allows me the opportunity to explain the challenges I'm faced with, and possibly have an ally down the road.

Working for a smaller jurisdiction has its ups and downs. I know everybody in my area. I know the good, bad, and indifferent. My closest backup is 3 to 5 minutes out. I have no CID, no Narcotics/ Warrants/ Vehicle Theft divisions. It's just me and my fellow officers. I work by myself 99% of the time. Sure it's difficult, but I can always choose another career path or agency. Knowing how to talk to people is a must. There's a time and place for joking around with people, and a time to be firm but fair.

It has always amazed me that some people have no problems talking to us in a manner that would get their teeth knocked out by anybody else.

As to the "He's the guy you're looking for" wisecracks, I just respond with "And you've been named as an accessory".

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

Hey, I didn't say being a LEO isn't dangerous, and I'm glad you guys are out there. I'm just telling you what I've been told. Every time I'm around any of the LEOs I know all they talk about is their great benefits, how their job is cush and they wouldn't trade it for a million bucks. I know street cops, highway patrol, game wardens and border patrol. I get the same story from all of them.

I have never heard any of them talk about the difficulties of their work.
Maybe they just don't like talking about it?

And I'm sure it will piss someone off but the only word to describe the ride a longs I've been on, fun.

<span style="font-style: italic">Dill weed. I haven't heard that since Beavis and Butt-head went off the air lol</span>

 

[mgd45]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

I don't think the guy ever crossed the line in the videos.....just doing what any free citizen is allowed to do. No big deal.. I do think that some of his commentary was a little uncalled for....why would he feel the need to comment on the motorcycle officer about "overtime" pay....? How does he know if the officer is working overtime or actually working his normal duty hours? That showed some of his prejudice against LE....

I also thought that the officers working the checkpoint missed out on a good opportunity to interact with a curious citizen and show him a part of our job. One officer could have simply walked over to him, introduced himself to him and said something like....<span style="font-style: italic">"How ya doing? You seem to be curious about this checkpoint...would you like to come over & see what we're doing, how we do it and why...?" </span>

Sometimes I find that if people are allowed to be involved or see things from our perspective, then they generally will lighten up a little & it might actually change their point of view about us....who cares if someone videotapes you while you work.....if you aren't doing anything illegal, you've got nothing to worry about....

Sometimes simply interacting & talking to our fellow citizens can solve a lot of misunderstanding & issues...

 

[50calibercruiser]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

This is the general attitude I get from the people I know. I know, their all dill weeds. And I'm not saying it's wrong, either. I'm saying I get the impression their job isn't as tough as people make it out to be.

I know I'm not a cop, I haven't been there.

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[DODGE268]

Re: Vid Of Guy Not Consenting to DUI Checkpoint

50cal I wouldn't trade what I do either. COuldn't think of anything else I'd rather do for a living. That being said cush is not one of the adjectives I would use to descibe my job. Boring, terrifying, fun, horrible, satisfying, depressing, or irritating would probably be better words to use. It may be that the guys you know just don't really want to talk to you about what they do everyday because they don't think you would understand. My wife is a lawyer (civil defense) and I hate going to any function with her because all of the other people she works with always want to talk about my job. Most of them want to bitch about a ticket or some other mundane thing like that. I usually stay by the bar and talk to the bartender. I gets old talking about what you do while you are not at work. I try not to think about work when I'm not there. I'm sure other professions are the same but this tis the only one I know about.
Patrick