Vintage Rifle Reloading Thread

[Desert_Racer]

Lets see if we can get this going. I realize that this may belong in the Reloading section, however, I think it will get more responses in the Vintage Sniper Rifles Forum. Post up your favorite handloads including:

Rifle/Caliber:
Brass:
Bullet (or mold number if cast):
Powder/Charge Weight:
Primer:
Seating Depth:
Velocity (If available):
Group @100 yards:

 

[itwillis]

This is a load that should be in everyone's notebook.


Rifle/Caliber: M1 Garand .30-06 Springfield
Brass: Any
Bullet (or mold number if cast): Any 168 Match
Powder/Charge Weight: 46.5 grains of IMR-4064 or Varget (your choice)
Primer: Any suitable LR or LRM
Seating Depth: COL 3.33"
Velocity (If available): 2650 fps (give or take)
Group @100 yards: As good as shooter and rifle will allow. Any serviceable M1 can clean the SR target with this load.

 

[kraigWY]

Rifle/Caliber: M1 Garand .30-06 Springfield
Brass: Any
Bullet (or mold number if cast): Any 168 Match
Powder/Charge Weight: 46.5 grains of IMR-4064

This, except I use Winchester brass, or did until I came up with quite a bit of M2 Ball Greek HXP brass, I found it is excellent brass for reloading '06 ammo.

I tried the Hornady Match'06 using the 168 A-max, it shoots good in my 'a4 at 300 & 600 yards, but I found the above load is quite a bit more accurate in my Surplus rifles (Garand, M1903A3, M1903A4 & M1917). All like that load better. I only use Win. standard LR primers.

Having said that, for CMP GSM matches fired at 100 or 200 yards I find nothing wrong with the M2 Ball Greek HXP that the CMP sells, it will easily clean the GSM 200 yard target. (except off hand, it doesn't shoot as will when you're standing on your hind legs for some reason).

Loading the above load cost about .57 cents around (.35 for the bullet, .04 for the primer, and .18 cents for the powder). the M2 Ball Greek HXP cost .59 cents a round from the CMP ($118 for 200 rounds). So I got to where I shoot it in Non Vintage Sniper Matches. That gives me .02 cents for once fires brass for my match ammo.

Just a Hint: Don't panic when shooting M2 Ball Greek HXP in a Garand. It does shoot lower then the above hand load or hornady match. My sight settings for the load/match round at 100 yards is 9 clicks up, for the HXP I need 16 clicks elevation at 100 yards. If you use the M-2 be sure you check what it does in your rifle before you go to a match. That's where score/data books come in handy. But it still shoots.

Plus an ammo can with each 200 rounds of M2 ball I buy.

 

[polish handgunner]

My favorite load for my Remington Springfield 1903A3

My favorite handload for my Remington Springfield 1903A3 consists of a 150 grain flat nose cast bullet from a custom Lee mold.
I use CCI200 primer, R-P case, 20.0 grains of SR4759.
Off the bench resting on bags I can hit a 6"
square regularly at 200 yards.

 

[sandwarrior]

This is a load that should be in everyone's notebook.


Rifle/Caliber: M1 Garand .30-06 Springfield
Brass: Any
Bullet (or mold number if cast): Any 168 Match
Powder/Charge Weight: 46.5 grains of IMR-4064 or Varget (your choice)
Primer: Any suitable LR or LRM
Seating Depth: COL 3.33"
Velocity (If available): 2650 fps (give or take)
Group @100 yards: As good as shooter and rifle will allow. Any serviceable M1 can clean the SR target with this load.

What is the original M72 Match load?

I know the original M1 {clarification: M2 Ball. I meant M1 Garand} load is 48.5 gr of 4895 (not separated back then) behind a 150 gr. (ish) bullet for 2750 fps. This is spec. I've found through the years, not always true lot to lot.

 

[itwillis]

What is the original M72 Match load?

I know the original M1 {clarification: M2 Ball. I meant M1 Garand} load is 48.5 gr of 4895 (not separated back then) behind a 150 gr. (ish) bullet for 2750 fps. This is spec. I've found through the years, not always true lot to lot.

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/227631-duplicating-m72-ammo.html

See post #7 in the above thread for the specs on M72. 50 grains give or take of military 4895 behind the 173 grain FMJ match. Modern reloaders are better suited matching the original MV which was about 2520 fps rather than just jumping to a 50 grain charge of commercial 4895, which will get you that velocity most likely near 48 grains or even a little less.

 

[sandwarrior]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-reloading/227631-duplicating-m72-ammo.html

See post #7 in the above thread for the specs on M72. 50 grains give or take of military 4895 behind the 173 grain FMJ match. Modern reloaders are better suited matching the original MV which was about 2520 fps rather than just jumping to a 50 grain charge of commercial 4895, which will get you that velocity most likely near 48 grains or even a little less.

Something seems wrong with the load I posted. I've seen it published before, though. I know you can do way better than 48.5 gr. of IMR 4895 behind a 150 gr. bullet, and use it in an M1 Garand. The 50 gr. with a 173 gr. bullet seems more reasonable. It's been a while since I've loaded for a Garand, let alone with any 4895 in 30-06, But where I feel it's reasonable because I use 57 gr. of H4350X with my 175's and that is not hot. Not good for the gas gun, but not hot in a bolt gun. Interpolation of speed would equate to the 50 gr. your spec sheet shows.

 

[itwillis]

Something seems wrong with the load I posted. I've seen it published before, though. I know you can do way better than 48.5 gr. of IMR 4895 behind a 150 gr. bullet, and use it in an M1 Garand. The 50 gr. with a 173 gr. bullet seems more reasonable. It's been a while since I've loaded for a Garand, let alone with any 4895 in 30-06, But where I feel it's reasonable because I use 57 gr. of H4350X with my 175's and that is not hot. Not good for the gas gun, but not hot in a bolt gun. Interpolation of speed would equate to the 50 gr. your spec sheet shows.

Sandwarrior,

The milspec for .30-06 was only 50,000 PSI, not the 60,000 PSI currently approved by SAAMI. Most of your "Garand" loads are always going to "seem" lower in modern published manuals that address the issue, Hornady #9 for example.

Although the load I posted is a "do all" load for the M1, my own personal M72 duplication load is 175 SMK over 47 gr IMR-4064. That nets me 2540 fps and is as close as I can get using modern components. If you load 50 gr of modern IMR-4895 behind the 175 SMK, that is a tad on the warm side for the M1 gas system, even though the load seems within current published loads.

With an adjustable gas system you can run SAAMI ammo all day long, action strength (chamber pressure) isn't the issue with the M1, its the relationship between port pressure and op-rod speed which is exceeded both by running the wrong propellants or by running too much of the right propellants. The risk of damage is with repeated use over time, the rifle will stand up well to the occasional beating, but extended use of the wrong components or loads will wear out or damage your moving parts.

 

[sandwarrior]

Sandwarrior,

The milspec for .30-06 was only 50,000 PSI, not the 60,000 PSI currently approved by SAAMI. Most of your "Garand" loads are always going to "seem" lower in modern published manuals that address the issue, Hornady #9 for example.

Although the load I posted is a "do all" load for the M1, my own personal M72 duplication load is 175 SMK over 47 gr IMR-4064. That nets me 2540 fps and is as close as I can get using modern components. If you load 50 gr of modern IMR-4895 behind the 175 SMK, that is a tad on the warm side for the M1 gas system, even though the load seems within current published loads.

With an adjustable gas system you can run SAAMI ammo all day long, action strength (chamber pressure) isn't the issue with the M1, its the relationship between port pressure and op-rod speed which is exceeded both by running the wrong propellants or by running too much of the right propellants. The risk of damage is with repeated use over time, the rifle will stand up well to the occasional beating, but extended use of the wrong components or loads will wear out or damage your moving parts.

AHHh...I'm not losing my mind. I did last week, but it showed back up again without me even trying to find it.

 

[itwillis]

Actually I'm losing my mind as well. The muzzle velocity of M72 was 2640 (@ 78 feet) which comes out to 2700-ish not 2540 like I said earlier. Anyways, the higher BC of the 175 SMK does make of the difference inside 600 yards and my duplication load is right at 2540-2550 with that bullet. There!

 

[Former0302]

Thoughts on 46.5 grns of Varget with a 178 AMAX in HXP brass and a CCI BR2 primer?

My surplus ball shoots better than this load in my m1903A1...is it too light for the 178 AMAX? Sorry, haven't measured velocity...need to get a chrono.

I guess I should just do a ladder test and work my way up, but I thought I might save some precious powder and inquire first.

 

[itwillis]

Thoughts on 46.5 grns of Varget with a 178 AMAX in HXP brass and a CCI BR2 primer?

My surplus ball shoots better than this load in my m1903A1...is it too light for the 178 AMAX? Sorry, haven't measured velocity...need to get a chrono.

I guess I should just do a ladder test and work my way up, but I thought I might save some precious powder and inquire first.

Hornady lists 46.4 gr. Varget with this bullet in #8 manual (not sure on #9 manual) as max @ 2550 FPS. I can tell you 2550 is a sweet spot for MV for the 175-178 gr bullets. 46.5 gr Varget or 4064 is used interchangeably but most people are shooting 168 Amax.

 

[Former0302]

Hornady lists 46.4 gr. Varget with this bullet in #8 manual (not sure on #9 manual) as max @ 2550 FPS. I can tell you 2550 is a sweet spot for MV for the 175-178 gr bullets. 46.5 gr Varget or 4064 is used interchangeably but most people are shooting 168 Amax.

Hmmmm...yeah I thought it should have been a pretty good load. I'll see if I can get my hands on a chronograph and get a velocity. Thanks for the info.

 

[MZ5]

A load which works well for me is:

Rifle/Caliber: US Rifle, Cal .30, M1 (the Garand; 30-06 Springfield)
Brass: RA54, or whatever mil-surp
Bullet: 175 SMK or Nos CC
Powder/Charge Weight: Accurate 4064, ~49.5 grains
Primer: Wolf, or CCI
COAL: 3.33"

This duplicates the revised M1 Ball (originally 2700 MV, revised thereafter to 2647 MV, for powder technology reasons) in my M1, in HOT weather (~2640 at 15 feet at ~110F ambient). Might want a skosh more powder on most of the continent. DO NOT SUBSTITUTE IMR4064 DIRECTLY. They're not the same powder. Neither is Varget (Hodgy's name for 4064), for that matter.

The milspec for .30-06 was only 50,000 PSI, not the 60,000 PSI currently approved by SAAMI. Most of your "Garand" loads are always going to "seem" lower in modern published manuals that address the issue, Hornady #9 for example.

While I agree that those pressure figures are true, one must recall that the military was using copper crushers at the time. Therefore, even though they _called_ it psi, it was actually 50,000 CUP according to how we would say it now, and thus really very similar to the 60,000 piezo psi that SAAMI uses. Accordingly, the only 'technical' reason that comes to mind as to why current commercial ammo marked as being loaded 'for the M1 Garand' is lower pressure, is in deference to _possibly_ weak or compromised old firearms.

 

[hillbillybear]

I came across a great load for the .30/06 some years ago while searching for something that was accurate in a particularly vexing Interarms Mark X rifle.

Its:

155 grain Hornady AMax

49.0 grains of VV N140
Remington case
Federal 215 magnum primer
OAL 3.330

Since finding this load I have used it in 10 or so different .30/06's and all produced between 0.3 MOA to 1 MOA groups. These rifles range from a heavy barrel custom to the 1903 Springfield with the Model 70, CZ 550, Weatherby Vanguard and Model 700 thrown in the mix too.

It clocks between 2,770 fps to 2,850 fps depending on the barrel length, throat, etc.

This load also powders crows, destroys groundhogs, and slays deer very nicely

 

[Tango down]

Lets see if we can get this going. I realize that this may belong in the Reloading section, however, I think it will get more responses in the Vintage Sniper Rifles Forum. Post up your favorite handloads including:

Rifle/Caliber:'43 Tula Mosin-Nagant PU Sniper 7.62x54r (rifle slugged at .313)
Brass: PPU
Bullet (or mold number if cast): 174 SMK (303, 311 diameter)
Powder/Charge Weight: Varget 44.6, AA4350 52.5 (same)
Primer: Fed LR 210 or 210 M (same)
Seating Depth: OTB 2.432
Velocity (If available): cannot remember exactly but would say around 2450
Group @100 yards: 1 1/4

Good load (in my rifle) for all distances; matches reasonably PU's turret elevation, so no need for side dope chart. If someone tries it, let me know how it works for you.

 

[BravoSector1]

Mosin Nagant Sniper 7.62x54R

Hornady 174gn interlock "sledgehammer"
PPU brass
CCI large rifle
IMR 4895: 43.5gn
*This load has taken multiple deer/1 shot*

Hornady 180gn SST
PPU brass
CCI large rifle
IMR 4895: 41gn

Hornady 150gn SST
PPU brass
CCI large rifle
IMR 4895: 43gn
*Accuracy winner of the group*