Rifle Scopes Viper PST Gen II vs Steiner T5XI

[buskin]

Trying to decide if I should keep the Steiner I purchase a few months ago for my newly acquired .308 caliber bolt gun or go the Vortex route Viper PST, maybe Razor, instead.

If you have had/handled both, which do you prefer and why?

Thanks,

Ken

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I think you'll find that the optical quality of the Steiner is superior. A few years ago there were turret issues on the Steiner which have since been corrected. All in all IMO, the Steiner is a higher quality scope.

 

[buskin]

Thanks, how does it compare to the Razor?

 

[gr8fuldoug]

my pleasure. Feel free to give us a call to discuss options

 

[SCOPEBROKER]

The Razor probably has an edge over the T5Xi (sorry ), but ste Steiner has fewer returns, in my opinion has more consitent manufacturing quality. With the Razor, if you get a good one, you get a good one. Also, the Steiner is built more for tough situations.

Agree that Steiner is superior to PST Gen II, but Gen II is a good scope. We see fewer returns than with the Razor.

 

[jinxx4ever]

i;ve got both the Steiner and the PST gen II, Steiner i feel is a much better scope, seems better built, glass quality much better. Like the reticle in the pst much better though. Will end up selling or trading the Steiner for another quality optic with a christmas tree reticle. I don't like dialing, would rather hold over.

 

[patriot07]

i;ve got both the Steiner and the PST gen II, Steiner i feel is a much better scope, seems better built, glass quality much better. Like the reticle in the pst much better though. Will end up selling or trading the Steiner for another quality optic with a christmas tree reticle. I don't like dialing, would rather hold over.

Funny, my opinion was the opposite. Love the SCR reticle, don't care for the T5xi glass, but I won't go so far as to say that it's worse than the PST2. Both are good scopes, and I have owned both, but I believe the build quality in the Steiner seems superior and it has some of the best turrets around in the sub-$1500 market. PST2 is also a great overall package for what they're going for as well.

I'm interested to see what this XTRIII has in store. It could be real winner in this price range.

 

[recondive]

I love my T5Xi, better glass, turrets I like the feel of better and love the low profile turrets as I carry this scope on a custom 280AI for hunting.

 

[buskin]

Thanks guys, I may just keep the T5XI, instead of going all Vortex.

 

[generalzip]

If you look long and hard enough and know the right people you can literally buy 2 Gen II PST Vipers for LESS than the price of 1 T5Xi with similar discounts...

I owned a M5Xi (great scope) and own 2 Gen 2 Razors. Have owned a Gen 1 PST and hav a 5-25 gen II pst on the way. Therefore, I can't comment on the comparison directly, but I'd have a hard time being convinced the Steiner is worth 2x as much as a gen 2 PST. The Vortex warranty alone is worth a lot.

I've played with a T5xi years ago. The Gen 2 Razor blows it out of the water in literally every catagory. I'd take a DMRII over the Steiner as well.

 

[buskin]

Thanks guys!

 

[kriller134]

i;ve got both the Steiner and the PST gen II, Steiner i feel is a much better scope, seems better built, glass quality much better. Like the reticle in the pst much better though. Will end up selling or trading the Steiner for another quality optic with a christmas tree reticle. I don't like dialing, would rather hold over.

I have a pst gen 2 5-25 mil if you wanna work out a trade.

 

[jinxx4ever]

I have a pst gen 2 5-25 mil if you wanna work out a trade.

i don't want another pst gen 2, not real impressed with the scope. If nothing else, would trade it towards another Cornus BTR which i own also and am really impressed with it. I'ts Heads and tails above the PST. Looking for another Kahles that maybe i can trade the Steiner and cash for, or sell it and wait for that NF with the new reticle to come out. Never really been a vortex fan, this is my second, sold my first not long after buying it, Thought i'd give it another try. but when it sits next to a NF, Cornus BTR, Stiener, Kahles on the same table, it's sucking hind tit.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

Thanks guys, I may just keep the T5XI, instead of going all Vortex.

We have a bit of a scope collection amongst a small group of friends which includes my Steiner T5XI 5-25, my lady's gen 1 Vortex Razor, a couple of Vortex PSTs, a Vortex Diamondback, A Burris XTR, an Athlon Argos, and someone just recently bought a Khales.

I have been using the Steiner for a few years and it continues to do everything I need shooting both a 6.5CR and 300WM out to 1200+ yards. The Khales is very nice construction and a small yet noticeable step up, as it should be considering the cost. I think the Razor is a small step down (but very small) and a damn fine scope. The PSTs are a great value for the money but the resolution of the glass doesn't compare to the higher end scopes when at 800+ yards. The Dimondback and Argos are cheap yet functional scopes and work great on NRL22 rifles.

Get out and shoot. Upgrade if you are pushing against limits of your gear. Anything more is just spending money.

 

[F23]

What about a comparison to a Gen 1 Razor? I have options to get a Gen 1 Razor for about $1300, but I'm willing to step up to the Steiner if it seems worth it. I'm trying to apply the 'buy once, cry once' philosophy to my build. Will be doing 1000yds+.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[lennyo3034]

What about a comparison to a Gen 1 Razor? I have options to get a Gen 1 Razor for about $1300, but I'm willing to step up to the Steiner if it seems worth it. I'm trying to apply the 'buy once, cry once' philosophy to my build. Will be doing 1000yds+.

Thanks,

Ken

I never liked the Gen 1 Razor. Something about it optically didn't agree with me and I didn't like the huge turret either.

For me and that price range scope it goes T5xi>DMRII>Razor gen 1. I've owned and used them all. Gen 2 Razor is on another level than any of these.

 

[patriot07]

What about a comparison to a Gen 1 Razor? I have options to get a Gen 1 Razor for about $1300, but I'm willing to step up to the Steiner if it seems worth it. I'm trying to apply the 'buy once, cry once' philosophy to my build. Will be doing 1000yds+.

Thanks,

Ken

I like the Gen 1 Razor more than the T5xi personally. I wouldn't spend more to get a T5xi than I could get a gen 1 razor for. JMHO

But if you're willing to "step up" from the Gen 1 razor at $1300, I think you can get a Gen 2 razor for $1800 new from vendors on here, and that might be the best value in mid/high end optics optics, period. It's head and shoulders above the gen 1 razor and t5xi.

 

[Primus]

The Razor probably has an edge over the T5Xi (sorry ), but ste Steiner has fewer returns, in my opinion has more consitent manufacturing quality. With the Razor, if you get a good one, you get a good one. Also, the Steiner is built more for tough situations.

Agree that Steiner is superior to PST Gen II, but Gen II is a good scope. We see fewer returns than with the Razor.

The Tx5 is not in the same league as the M series. the Razor gen 2 is a proven quantity, the US made steiners have an ugly track record and are a shitty company to deal with. Before we get into revisionist history, go take a look how steiner/burris treated those people with defective scopes.

 

[EchoDeltaSierra]

What about a comparison to a Gen 1 Razor? I have options to get a Gen 1 Razor for about $1300, but I'm willing to step up to the Steiner if it seems worth it. I'm trying to apply the 'buy once, cry once' philosophy to my build. Will be doing 1000yds+.

My lady shoots with a Razor Gen 1 on her 6.5CR and I run a T5Xi on mine. Both are good scopes and we both shoot frequently at 1000y. I really like the build and turrets on the Steiner and have been extremely pleased with it for the few years I’ve owned it. I think it’s worth the extra price, but that’s just a matter of personal preference.

 

[MarkLeupold]

The Tx5 is not in the same league as the M series. the Razor gen 2 is a proven quantity, the US made steiners have an ugly track record and are a shitty company to deal with. Before we get into revisionist history, go take a look how steiner/burris treated those people with defective scopes.

YMMV, but I had a great experience this past late summer with Steiner's CS with regards to my defective scope, and I was being picky about it. I really didn't know if anything was wrong, I just wanted to send it in and have them check it over to make sure. I was not the first owner of the scope, so it was probably sent to me like that and I didn't notice until I had some good time behind it.

Turns out Steiner sent me a brand new T5xi to replace the one I sent. From the little time I have behind that one, the problem I was having does not persist in this one and the new one seems to have a better optical picture. I'll know it better this coming summer, planning on spending a lot of time behind that glass.

I haven't ever looked through a PST Gen II so my opinion is probably moot, but from what I've seen of my T5Xi's...

I'll take the T5Xi all day.

 

[AZgeek]

The Tx5 is not in the same league as the M series. the Razor gen 2 is a proven quantity, the US made steiners have an ugly track record and are a shitty company to deal with. Before we get into revisionist history, go take a look how steiner/burris treated those people with defective scopes.

A fair amount of that documented history was lost on the old Scout platform. There was also a re-seller who showed his true colors and did nothing to stand by customers who wanted and deserved a refund. Glad the memory is still good. I stay clear of them.

 

[308pirate]

The Vortex warranty alone is worth a lot.

Being a new Steiner owner, this caught my attention to I went to both Vortex's and Steiner's websites to look over their warranties. I found no substantive differences between Vortex's VIP warranty and Steiner's Heritage warranty.

If there's something significant that's different and I missed, let me know.

 

[Primus]

A fair amount of that documented history was lost on the old Scout platform. There was also a re-seller who showed his true colors and did nothing to stand by customers who wanted and deserved a refund. Glad the memory is still good. I stay clear of them.

Yea it disgusts me how people white wash what actually happened.

There were hundreds of us who were fucked over, lied to, and treated like shit.

 

[Primus]

Being a new Steiner owner, this caught my attention to I went to both Vortex's and Steiner's websites to look over their warranties. I found no substantive differences between Vortex's VIP warranty and Steiner's Heritage warranty.

If there's something significant that's different and I missed, let me know.

What a companies says they will do and what they WILL do are 2 separate things.

Go ask all those guys who bought Premier's how that lifetime warranty is working out for them. If they were lucky they got a $1k certificate on a $4500 scope in exchange for the $3000 they paid. So they got the privilege of paying $6500 for one scope. What a bargain. If they weren't, they were the proud owners of a $3,000 paperweight.

Just because I tell my wife I have a 12inch cock, doesn't mean she believes it, or that its true (But it is ).

Vortex has a long, proven history of providing great CS and warranty work. Even though most of vortex's non jap made products are sketchy, they will still support and replace them as needed no questions asked. Steiner USA has a shit history that people seem to conveniently ignore due to recency bias or whatever. Go google the T5X rollout and the Humbler experiments. Bunch of history revisionists up in the Mofo.

 

[AZgeek]

Yea it discusts me how people white wash what actually happened.

There were hundreds of us who were fucked over, lied to, and treated like shit.

And unfortunately you can never be reimbursed for your time, range fees and ammo expenses. Think of it as a contribution to someone else's bottom line.

 

[generalzip]

Being a new Steiner owner, this caught my attention to I went to both Vortex's and Steiner's websites to look over their warranties. I found no substantive differences between Vortex's VIP warranty and Steiner's Heritage warranty.

If there's something significant that's different and I missed, let me know.

What’s in writing and what happens in reality are two separate things. I’m not saying steiners warranty is bad. It’s just not as good as vortex. I could cite examples but a simple google search should show you everything you need to see.

 

[308pirate]

What’s in writing and what happens in reality are two separate things. I’m not saying steiners warranty is bad. It’s just not as good as vortex. I could cite examples but a simple google search should show you everything you need to see.

I don't put too much stock on third party accounts. There's what the complainers say, there's what the complainers say the company said, and then there's the truth.

 

[footsteps]

I need some glass trade you an 8 week old labrador puppy we have all 3 colors here on the farm in the catskills, jack

 

[AZgeek]

Handsome little devil. Looks a dog i know.

 

[K.B.808]

Does anyone consider the amount of Vortex owners that have actually had to use their warranty a negative? That's considering the issue for return not being a user error. I've been looking at a PST Gen2 as a possible purchase but have held back so far.

 

[generalzip]

I don't put too much stock on third party accounts. There's what the complainers say, there's what the complainers say the company said, and then there's the truth.

I’ve owned a M5 and several vortex scopes. Never used either warranty, but have personal friends that have. Vortex blew me away with the level of satisfaction they try to achieve. Buy whatever you want, but in a mid grade/budget scope my money is going to the guys that will fix or send me a new scope within a week.

 

[generalzip]

Does anyone consider the amount of Vortex owners that have actually had to use their warranty a negative? That's considering the issue for return not being a user error. I've been looking at a PST Gen2 as a possible purchase but have held back so far.

Do you have any idea how many vortex scopes are in civilian hands vs Steiner? Probably like 30-50x. Go to a local range or match and count how many vortex scopes you see for every Steiner. Locally I’d say it’s probably 1 Steiner to ever 40-50 vortex scopes

 

[308pirate]

Do you have any idea how many vortex scopes are in civilian hands vs Steiner? Probably like 30-50x. Go to a local range or match and count how many vortex scopes you see for every Steiner. Locally I’d say it’s probably 1 Steiner to ever 40-50 vortex scopes

Reverse the ratio in Europe. Now what's your point again?

 

[generalzip]

Reverse the ratio in Europe. Now what's your point again?

Number of gun owners in the US vs the rest of the world.... really???

 

[K.B.808]

Number of gun owners in the US vs the rest of the world.... really???

The US does hold the record there. Not sure if those numbers represent what we're talking about though as not everyone is a long range hunter or precision shooter.

 

[generalzip]

The point I'm making is very simple. Many more Vortex scopes exist in civilian hands than steiner. That's simply a fact. Assuming the same rate of failure, you will have many more warranty cases with the scope brand that sells more scopes. I'm talking civilians here. You wouldn't hear a military coming on SH to bitch about a broken scope...

 

[308pirate]

Number of gun owners in the US vs the rest of the world.... really???

You obviously don't know the meaning of the word ratio.

And here's a newsflash for you. Europeans for the most part, unlike us, need to justify their reason to own firearms to their government. So for that reason the percent of ACTIVE, participating, competing shooters in Europe is far greater than it is here.

How many people own handguns in the US? How many shoot more than 500 rounds a year?

How many people own rifles in the US? How many shoot more than 100 rounds a year?

I bet you whatever you want that on a per capita basis European shooters are a hell of lot more active than us.

 

[lash]

I’ve owned a M5 and several vortex scopes. Never used either warranty, but have personal friends that have. Vortex blew me away with the level of satisfaction they try to achieve. Buy whatever you want, but in a mid grade/budget scope my money is going to the guys that will fix or send me a new scope within a week.

You mean like Steiner did for me?

 

[generalzip]

You obviously don't know the meaning of the word ratio.

And here's a newsflash for you. Europeans for the most part, unlike us, need to justify their reason to own firearms to their government. So for that reason the percent of ACTIVE, participating, competing shooters in Europe is far greater than it is here.

How many people own handguns in the US? How many shoot more than 500 rounds a year?

How many people own rifles in the US? How many shoot more than 100 rounds a year?

I bet you whatever you want that on a per capita basis European shooters are a hell of lot more active than us.

So you need to be an active shooter with over 500 rounds a year to want or buy a scope. Makes sense.

 

[lash]

Do you have any idea how many vortex scopes are in civilian hands vs Steiner? Probably like 30-50x. Go to a local range or match and count how many vortex scopes you see for every Steiner. Locally I’d say it’s probably 1 Steiner to ever 40-50 vortex scopes

Okay, so I’ll concede that I see more Vortex on line than Steiner, but save your made up statistics for people who believe whatever MSM tells them. We get that you don’t like Steiner, possibly with good reason. Just don’t make shut up to support your personal position.

I bought one of the very first T5Xi 5-25s and had minor issues with mine, same as many did that bought the early release scopes. No doubt Steiner messed up their USA scope line roll out. Big time. I have to believe that even they would say that now. I’m sure it has hurt their sales and street price big time also. Mistakes should hurt.

But those of you that got burnt for whatever reason need to get over your vendetta against them. Steiner finally wised up and put in place a really solid warranty that is essentially no different the Vortex’s. And they deliver on it now too.

On the flip side, there is a PRS shooter at our club who wanted badly to be a Vortex fan. He started with a Viper PST. When that failed (and was replaced) he bought a Razor 2 which failed in a couple months. While that one was back at Vortex, he bought an AMG to shoot in the next match. First match an o-ring peeled out of the focus/parallax knob, so he sent that in too. The replacement AMG also failed shortly after he got it. So, despite the great warranty that Vortex has, they lost a good customer because his multiple experiences were enough to make him move on to another brand.

Sure, his experience is an odd one, and not likely to happen to any other single person, but it certainly doesn’t speak well for the brand, no matter how you spin it.

So now I ask who is whitewashing whom? A fair question.

 

[K.B.808]

So you need to be an active shooter with over 500 rounds a year to want or buy a scope. Makes sense.

Fairly certain that wasn’t the intended message.

 

[generalzip]

Okay, so I’ll concede that I see more Vortex on line than Steiner, but save your made up statistics for people who believe whatever MSM tells them. We get that you don’t like Steiner, possibly with good reason. Just don’t make shut up to support your personal position.

I bought one of the very first T5Xi 5-25s and had minor issues with mine, same as many did that bought the early release scopes. No doubt Steiner messed up their USA scope line roll out. Big time. I have to believe that even they would say that now. I’m sure it has hurt their sales and street price big time also. Mistakes should hurt.

But those of you that got burnt for whatever reason need to get over your vendetta against them. Steiner finally wised up and put in place a really solid warranty that is essentially no different the Vortex’s. And they deliver on it now too.

On the flip side, there is a PRS shooter at our club who wanted badly to be a Vortex fan. He started with a Viper PST. When that failed (and was replaced) he bought a Razor 2 which failed in a couple months. While that one was back at Vortex, he bought an AMG to shoot in the next match. First match an o-ring peeled out of the focus/parallax knob, so he sent that in too. The replacement AMG also failed shortly after he got it. So, despite the great warranty that Vortex has, they lost a good customer because his multiple experiences were enough to make him move on to another brand.

Sure, his experience is an odd one, and not likely to happen to any other single person, but it certainly doesn’t speak well for the brand, no matter how you spin it.

So now I ask who is whitewashing whom? A fair question.

I have nothing against Steiner. My m5 was an awesome scope. For the money do I think better options exist? Yes. But by no means is it a bad scope. The T5’s I’ve played with are a noticeable Step down in quality. Turrets, glass, etc is noticeably worse.

If you enjoy you Steiner that’s great. My only argument and still is that vortex has a better warranty and in my opinion is the best in the business. Someone argued that vortex has more warranty claims. My counter argument was they sell more scopes. That’s all. I still believe all of that is true.

 

[K.B.808]

I asked if anyone considered it a negative.

If paying a premium on an item means I’m less likely to have to return or have an issue with it then I don’t find it a negative paying a little more. My wallet and my better-half disagrees with me about that.

 

[lash]

I think all of us can recognize that Vortex totally set the bar for warranty in the recreational long range scope market for North America. They were the first to offer such a warranty, but now a number of other companies have stepped up and met that same level of CS. Some have stumbled on the way, but the total warranty is no longer the rarity that existed just five years ago. Vortex has to take back some respect by trying for some better first time quality. They used to be there, but appearances are that it has slipped somewhat lately.

Also, no argument that the T series are a step down from the M series Steiners. They don’t even pretend to be in the same league or market and their prices reflect that.

And FWIW, I am not against Vortex in any way and recently recommended one to my brother as it fit his needs and budget.

 

[Primus]

I don't put too much stock on third party accounts. There's what the complainers say, there's what the complainers say the company said, and then there's the truth.

So now your calling people who lived through it liars? Your posts are the forum equivenent of fake news. I'm sure all the guys reading this thread, who were burned by Steiner really care what you have to say about it......

 

[Primus]

Reverse the ratio in Europe. Now what's your point again?

Steiner Germany and Steiner USA are two separate companies.

Steiner Euro makes the military series and what we consider the good Steiners that rival other quality Euro manufactures.

Steiner USA is an extension of Burris, with both having spotty histories and making products that couldn't sniff the balls of a German made Steiner M optic.

The euros also have a different mentality when it comes to warranties. We are much more picky and demanding here in the US because we expect it. Euro trash also have a history of subjectation and the caste system. So In essence they really don't expect good customer service and deal with it. With that being said I'm taking a German Steiner with shitty CS over a US made Steiner with marginally better CS. Statistically I'm better off with a higher quality product that odds favor it not needing warranty work.

Got any other gems?

 

[Primus]

Okay, so I’ll concede that I see more Vortex on line than Steiner, but save your made up statistics for people who believe whatever MSM tells them. We get that you don’t like Steiner, possibly with good reason. Just don’t make shut up to support your personal position.

I bought one of the very first T5Xi 5-25s and had minor issues with mine, same as many did that bought the early release scopes. No doubt Steiner messed up their USA scope line roll out. Big time. I have to believe that even they would say that now. I’m sure it has hurt their sales and street price big time also. Mistakes should hurt.

But those of you that got burnt for whatever reason need to get over your vendetta against them. Steiner finally wised up and put in place a really solid warranty that is essentially no different the Vortex’s. And they deliver on it now too.

On the flip side, there is a PRS shooter at our club who wanted badly to be a Vortex fan. He started with a Viper PST. When that failed (and was replaced) he bought a Razor 2 which failed in a couple months. While that one was back at Vortex, he bought an AMG to shoot in the next match. First match an o-ring peeled out of the focus/parallax knob, so he sent that in too. The replacement AMG also failed shortly after he got it. So, despite the great warranty that Vortex has, they lost a good customer because his multiple experiences were enough to make him move on to another brand.

Sure, his experience is an odd one, and not likely to happen to any other single person, but it certainly doesn’t speak well for the brand, no matter how you spin it.

So now I ask who is whitewashing whom? A fair question.

Your anedotal evidence is worthless to the discussion at hand. For every "story" like you told there are thousands of proven vortex users who will sing it's praises.

If u want to talk ratios than here is one for you:

Ratio of vortex purchases who are happy:unhappy and the same for Steiner USA.

For every person you find who trashes vortex with their once In a blue moon story, I can name a poster here who was fucked raw by Steiner USA. Since there were literally over a hundred SH members who were fucked, let me know when you find 100 people fucked over by vortex. Considering they are over a hundred times bigger than Steiner l,it just proves my point further. And you still won't be able to find that many people who vortex didn't make it right with.

Some of you all need to go down to your local community college and sign up for Reason & Logic 101

 

[K.B.808]

Well that escalated quickly. Apparently it’s hard to have a civil discussion about scopes or anything with a fan base. I find it unlikely people will calm their titties down to listen to you when you’re dropping f bombs.

 

[patriot07]

Have had both. I'd buy another Vortex in a heartbeat. Will never buy another Steiner.

 

[Primus]

Well that escalated quickly. Apparently it’s hard to have a civil discussion about scopes or anything with a fan base. I find it unlikely people will calm their titties down to listen to you when you’re dropping f bombs.

You hitched your argument to the wrong horse and now it's been proven wrong. No one is not being civil and if a few bad words are too much to handle than this may not be the best place ( or so I've been told.) We can have a heated debate, especially when people have suffered real losses. It's healthy for the sport and this site to have open and fair debates. It's the only way to separate what's real from the BS (sponsers & those with a financial intetest). When's the last time you read a negative review in a gun mag?