Rifle Scopes Viper pst scopes

radmcg

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 5, 2008
532
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Mobile, AL
Anyone got their hands on any of these. I have been holding out for a scope in this price the SS3-9 but it's not illuminated and no parralax adjustment. Looks like the pst has it all if the quality is there. Has anyone received one or used a prototype? Hint, hint Lowlight?
AHA
Rad
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

After playing with them for a while, and looking through every single one I could, I can only say that I hope these scopes were thrown together haphazardly to get them ready quickly for the show. I peered through a few where I could not get a full, no-shadow view, period. With one, I had to move off center to get a no-shadow image and a little bit of the reticle was hidden because I was off to one side. One had no clicks on the windage knob. A couple had very light clicks on one of the knobs while the other was fine.

I expect these are issues they will address on the production run, but these pre-production ones did not impress. And I had very high hopes for this line of optics. Vortex being the company they are will no doubt make things right, and I'll most likely get one. But not until they've been out for a little while.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Well I hate to hear that the pre-production models that were at SHOT were like that! I'm confident however that the folks at Vortex will take care of those issues on the production models!
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Sorry KSP446 corrected the post.
Thanks for the responses. If SS had just added parralax and illumination to the 3-9 even if the cost went up 200.00 it would still be in a niche nobody fills right now.
Rad
 
Re: Viper pst scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: radmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone got their hands on any of these. I have been holding out for a scope in this price the SS3-9 but it's not illuminated and no parralax adjustment. Looks like the pst has it all if the quality is there. Has anyone received one or used a prototype? Hint, hint Lowlight?
AHA
Rad </div></div>

After fiddling with them at the SHOT I'd rate them as mediocre.If they track well that will go a long way.That's what $1000 buys you nowadays I guess.

I'm hoping SWFA SS comes out with a competitor for the PST.

Steve
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After playing with them for a while, and looking through every single one I could, I can only say that I hope these scopes were thrown together haphazardly to get them ready quickly for the show. I peered through a few where I could not get a full, no-shadow view, period. With one, I had to move off center to get a no-shadow image and a little bit of the reticle was hidden because I was off to one side. One had no clicks on the windage knob. A couple had very light clicks on one of the knobs while the other was fine.

I expect these are issues they will address on the production run, but these pre-production ones did not impress. And I had very high hopes for this line of optics. Vortex being the company they are will no doubt make things right, and I'll most likely get one. But not until they've been out for a little while. </div></div>

I'm really surprised to hear you think they were "thrown together haphazardly". Especially the comment about not getting a full, no shadowed view. We specifically designed these to have a very forgiving eye relief and I checked every single one and they all were very, very nice to my eyes. I'll check them all over again after we get them unpacked from the show, but I'm just a little baffled by this comment.

As far as the clicks go, some of the models were still a little light, but that is something that we are addressing for the production run. I'm not sure why one didn't have any clicks on the windage. If there is one like that I'm sure I'll find it on the post show inspection. Perhaps someone had just loosened the three set screws on the turret?

I guess overall I'm just a little surprised at the comments, because at the show people were overwhelmingly positive and extremely excited about the scopes.

-Sam
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

In my experience it is sometimes pretty hard to be able to get behind a scope properly when it is not mounted to a rifle. Just holding them up with your hands it is hard to see through it right. I could see this being the culprit.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sam@Vortex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After playing with them for a while, and looking through every single one I could, I can only say that I hope these scopes were thrown together haphazardly to get them ready quickly for the show. I peered through a few where I could not get a full, no-shadow view, period. With one, I had to move off center to get a no-shadow image and a little bit of the reticle was hidden because I was off to one side. One had no clicks on the windage knob. A couple had very light clicks on one of the knobs while the other was fine.

I expect these are issues they will address on the production run, but these pre-production ones did not impress. And I had very high hopes for this line of optics. Vortex being the company they are will no doubt make things right, and I'll most likely get one. But not until they've been out for a little while. </div></div>

I'm really surprised to hear you think they were "thrown together haphazardly". Especially the comment about not getting a full, no shadowed view. We specifically designed these to have a very forgiving eye relief and I checked every single one and they all were very, very nice to my eyes. I'll check them all over again after we get them unpacked from the show, but I'm just a little baffled by this comment.

As far as the clicks go, some of the models were still a little light, but that is something that we are addressing for the production run. I'm not sure why one didn't have any clicks on the windage. If there is one like that I'm sure I'll find it on the post show inspection. Perhaps someone had just loosened the three set screws on the turret?

I guess overall I'm just a little surprised at the comments, because at the show people were overwhelmingly positive and extremely excited about the scopes.

-Sam </div></div>

I was very excited about these scopes as well. I found it very odd that there were optical issues. On these scopes that had the problems, I didn't check to see if the elevation or windage was maxed to one extreme, perhaps causing the problem. Thats my fault. Like I said, you guys as a company impress me, and I'm sure you'll make it good. The majority of all the ones I looked through were great, but the little things just got me doubting. If they all feel/look like the nice ones I got to play with, solid clicks, clear glass, etc., and hold up as expected, I see one or three in my future.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: prplhaz72</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my experience it is sometimes pretty hard to be able to get behind a scope properly when it is not mounted to a rifle. Just holding them up with your hands it is hard to see through it right. I could see this being the culprit. </div></div>

They were mounted to rifles.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On these scopes that had the problems, I didn't check to see if the elevation or windage was maxed to one extreme, perhaps causing the problem. Thats my fault.</div></div>

Then you really didn't check the scope out much did you?

Look, you are entitled to your opinions, but it is a little irresponsible to come in here and talk a bunch of trash about a product that is this highly anticipated... and then not even bother to give the scope even the most basic run through?

Perhaps you should leave the optic testing to those qualified to do it before posting half cocked negative comments. I read your comments, and took them to heart... and thought to myself "well crap, I'm sure vortex will make sure production models are good, but I wonder if this will set their timeline back at all?" All the while thinking that if you were making the comments, you must be qualified. (mistake on my part)

In the future, when you pick up a new optic and want to see what its capable of at first glance... here is some things you can do so you don't sound like a fool:

Run the turrets completely out, and completely in. Look for any loose or tight spots when doing so. Look through the scope to see what the image looks like when you are at both ends of the spectrum compared to mechanical center. Check both the high and low power ranges at all settings in the process. Check the parallax too. Do so while looking at various objects with various lighting at various distances. This doesn't take very long and will give you a decent idea of the real world capabilities of the optic. Look around on the internet... there are a lot more involved tests out there as well.

Now look, don't go getting all pissy and take this the wrong way. I'm trying to help you. You just should be a little more responsible for the things you say. You can't expect people to take you seriously when you talk about a scope... when all you did was pick it up and look through it a couple times. Do your diligence, and THEN talk about it.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

This is why I never preorder shit. Until its been run through the proper testing and given the LL seal of approval it is unproven. Yes its got the features everyones looking for but is goin to hold up to competitors like the Sightron that does have excellent glass and repeatability but yet lacks the features. Vortex has done nothing but prove themselves with out a doubt they are a superior company with excellent quality and customer service with a backed guarantee. I personally love Vortex and its players but I will never preorder an optic till its been absolutely proven in the hands of others who are more experienced than I am at correctly judging an optic. Its kinda like playing the stock market and you recieve a tip that this stock is goin to excel but lacks the return till much later down the road. Very risky.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On these scopes that had the problems, I didn't check to see if the elevation or windage was maxed to one extreme, perhaps causing the problem. Thats my fault.</div></div>

Then you really didn't check the scope out much did you?

Look, you are entitled to your opinions, but it is a little irresponsible to come in here and talk a bunch of trash about a product that is this highly anticipated... and then not even bother to give the scope even the most basic run through?

Perhaps you should leave the optic testing to those qualified to do it before posting half cocked negative comments. I read your comments, and took them to heart... and thought to myself "well crap, I'm sure vortex will make sure production models are good, but I wonder if this will set their timeline back at all?" All the while thinking that if you were making the comments, you must be qualified. (mistake on my part)

In the future, when you pick up a new optic and want to see what its capable of at first glance... here is some things you can do so you don't sound like a fool:

Run the turrets completely out, and completely in. Look for any loose or tight spots when doing so. Look through the scope to see what the image looks like when you are at both ends of the spectrum compared to mechanical center. Check both the high and low power ranges at all settings in the process. Check the parallax too. Do so while looking at various objects with various lighting at various distances. This doesn't take very long and will give you a decent idea of the real world capabilities of the optic. Look around on the internet... there are a lot more involved tests out there as well.

Now look, don't go getting all pissy and take this the wrong way. I'm trying to help you. You just should be a little more responsible for the things you say. You can't expect people to take you seriously when you talk about a scope... when all you did was pick it up and look through it a couple times. Do your diligence, and THEN talk about it. </div></div>

Lol. Looked through it a couple times? Get real. I spent the better part of an hour looking through them all. There's only so much optical evaluation that can be done in a 100 yard convention center, under one set of conditions, without a steady platform. Various objects, various lighting...really? Did you see the venue? Use your head a little. Are you suggesting its OK for a scope to do that even at one extreme of adjustment? You have no idea my background, how many high end scopes I've gone through, broken, tried, borrowed, etc. Before I usually decide what scopes to keep I usually have them on a match rifle for about 6 months, shoot a couple thousand rounds behind them in a variety of LR and tac matches. There is a lot of evaluation I'd like to do on the PST line. They'd be great on a backup rifle or for someone with limited funds. I posted my objective findings. Despite not running the elevation/windage to the extreme on that one scope (I did on others, and the ones with faint clicks had faint clicks through the entire range), those optical issues aren't supposed to be there. Click mushiness and consistency is something that can be fixed, and I'm sure they'll do that.

I didn't post much of what I thought subjectively. Even though something may not feel robust, doesn't mean it can't be.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

LOL...dyam Ryan..looks like you got someone's panties in a bunch quick. And its true Ryan has owned and broken several high end optics. S&B included.

Orkan,

Just because he is not "qualified" to your standards to test optics, I believe as a shooter he knows what he likes, dislikes, wants, and needs in an optic. So before you start lippin off you might wanna do your research as well.

Personally I only am only interested in the high end HD Razor scope. Wish we had one out here to test before spending 2K.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

I really didn't notice any bad shadowing or anything with the Viper PSTs. The turrets are subjective. After messing around with the MTC system, everything might seem mushy. I really did like the eye relief on the PSTs on the models that interest me (1-4 and 2.5-10x). I had a friend there that haven't heard of the Vortex line and he was totally impressed with the lineup of scope. There was only one thing he was interested in, if they can handle a NVD like a PVS-14 mounted to the rear of it. I think the Vortex rep told him that they would send him one when they became available to test out for NVD compatibility.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Personally I only am only interested in the high end HD Razor scope. Wish we had one out here to test before spending 2K. </div></div>

With an EBR3 MRAD reticle, or maybe a re-worked EBR2, and a little better exit pupil, I'd probably buy one just to test out for a year. Hell, even as is with an EBR3, I'm very tempted. The reticle looked good, albeit a little thick, in the PST.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On these scopes that had the problems, I didn't check to see if the elevation or windage was maxed to one extreme, perhaps causing the problem. Thats my fault.</div></div>

Then you really didn't check the scope out much did you?

Look, you are entitled to your opinions, but it is a little irresponsible to come in here and talk a bunch of trash about a product that is this highly anticipated... and then not even bother to give the scope even the most basic run through?

Perhaps you should leave the optic testing to those qualified to do it before posting half cocked negative comments. I read your comments, and took them to heart... and thought to myself "well crap, I'm sure vortex will make sure production models are good, but I wonder if this will set their timeline back at all?" All the while thinking that if you were making the comments, you must be qualified. (mistake on my part)

In the future, when you pick up a new optic and want to see what its capable of at first glance... here is some things you can do so you don't sound like a fool:

Run the turrets completely out, and completely in. Look for any loose or tight spots when doing so. Look through the scope to see what the image looks like when you are at both ends of the spectrum compared to mechanical center. Check both the high and low power ranges at all settings in the process. Check the parallax too. Do so while looking at various objects with various lighting at various distances. This doesn't take very long and will give you a decent idea of the real world capabilities of the optic. Look around on the internet... there are a lot more involved tests out there as well.

Now look, don't go getting all pissy and take this the wrong way. I'm trying to help you. You just should be a little more responsible for the things you say. You can't expect people to take you seriously when you talk about a scope... when all you did was pick it up and look through it a couple times. Do your diligence, and THEN talk about it. </div></div>

Lol. Looked through it a couple times? Get real. I spent the better part of an hour looking through them all. There's only so much optical evaluation that can be done in a 100 yard convention center, under one set of conditions, without a steady platform. Various objects, various lighting...really? Did you see the venue? Use your head a little. Are you suggesting its OK for a scope to do that even at one extreme of adjustment? You have no idea my background, how many high end scopes I've gone through, broken, tried, borrowed, etc. Before I usually decide what scopes to keep I usually have them on a match rifle for about 6 months, shoot a couple thousand rounds behind them in a variety of LR and tac matches. There is a lot of evaluation I'd like to do on the PST line. They'd be great on a backup rifle or for someone with limited funds. I posted my objective findings. Despite not running the elevation/windage to the extreme on that one scope (I did on others, and the ones with faint clicks had faint clicks through the entire range), those optical issues aren't supposed to be there. Click mushiness and consistency is something that can be fixed, and I'm sure they'll do that.

I didn't post much of what I thought subjectively. Even though something may not feel robust, doesn't mean it can't be. </div></div>


After knowing a little about RK's past experience with some high end scopes I'd trust his opinions more than most peoples opinions for sure!

Steve
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On these scopes that had the problems, I didn't check to see if the elevation or windage was maxed to one extreme, perhaps causing the problem. Thats my fault.</div></div>

Then you really didn't check the scope out much did you?

Look, you are entitled to your opinions, but it is a little irresponsible to come in here and talk a bunch of trash about a product that is this highly anticipated... and then not even bother to give the scope even the most basic run through?

Perhaps you should leave the optic testing to those qualified to do it before posting half cocked negative comments. I read your comments, and took them to heart... and thought to myself "well crap, I'm sure vortex will make sure production models are good, but I wonder if this will set their timeline back at all?" All the while thinking that if you were making the comments, you must be qualified. (mistake on my part)

In the future, when you pick up a new optic and want to see what its capable of at first glance... here is some things you can do so you don't sound like a fool:

Run the turrets completely out, and completely in. Look for any loose or tight spots when doing so. Look through the scope to see what the image looks like when you are at both ends of the spectrum compared to mechanical center. Check both the high and low power ranges at all settings in the process. Check the parallax too. Do so while looking at various objects with various lighting at various distances. This doesn't take very long and will give you a decent idea of the real world capabilities of the optic. Look around on the internet... there are a lot more involved tests out there as well.

Now look, don't go getting all pissy and take this the wrong way. I'm trying to help you. You just should be a little more responsible for the things you say. You can't expect people to take you seriously when you talk about a scope... when all you did was pick it up and look through it a couple times. Do your diligence, and THEN talk about it.</div></div>

Maybe you shouldn't put all that much importance on an internet post, regardless of the person posting it.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Definitely sounds like Ryan has competent experience in dealing with high end optics. Again Ill never, ever ever ever ever preorder unproven optics without reliable information regardless of a companies background. Warranty or not.

The good thing is that Vortex has developed an excellent listening ear to people who are qualified to make judgements on a new to the market optic and Im sure will correct any issues regarding a new line of glass like the PST. I wish I could merge Vortex in with Sightron.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

I leave beta testing to others. One thing I am not is a guinea pig. If in a year people are still singing their praises, Ill buy a couple for my AR's.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I leave beta testing to others. One thing I am not is a guinea pig. If in a year people are still singing their praises, Ill buy a couple for my AR's. </div></div>

+1 on that.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After playing with them for a while, and looking through every single one I could, I can only say that I hope these scopes were thrown together haphazardly to get them ready quickly for the show. I peered through a few where I could not get a full, no-shadow view, period. With one, I had to move off center to get a no-shadow image and a little bit of the reticle was hidden because I was off to one side. One had no clicks on the windage knob. A couple had very light clicks on one of the knobs while the other was fine.

I expect these are issues they will address on the production run, but these pre-production ones did not impress. And I had very high hopes for this line of optics. Vortex being the company they are will no doubt make things right, and I'll most likely get one. But not until they've been out for a little while. </div></div>

Did you get chance to discuss your findings with any of the Vortex staff at the show ?
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Gee, I didn't see this coming at all [/sarcasm]

I pick on someone for not being thorough, and all his buddies come out telling me to stop it. lol

He doesn't like what he saw, fine.

Its just strange to me that out of the 15 or so reviews I've read from people that were also at shot and evaluated those same scopes... his was the only negative one.

After reading a blog post like this:
http://libertyoptics.blogspot.com/2010/01/shot-show-day-1.html
... from Scott... its surely paints a different picture than rksimple does.

So you tell me. Who's right, who's wrong? Does scott just not know wtf he's doing? Or do you not know what you are doing? Or do you both know what you're doing and you just got a lemon that scott didn't see? or

See what I'm saying? A bit hard to tell who's just stirring the shit.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gee, I didn't see this coming at all [/sarcasm]

I pick on someone for not being thorough, and all his buddies come out telling me to stop it. lol

He doesn't like what he saw, fine.

Its just strange to me that out of the 15 or so reviews I've read from people that were also at shot and evaluated those same scopes... his was the only negative one.

After reading a blog post like this:
http://libertyoptics.blogspot.com/2010/01/shot-show-day-1.html
... from Scott... its surely paints a different picture than rksimple does.

So you tell me. Who's right, who's wrong? Does scott just not know wtf he's doing? Or do you not know what you are doing? Or do you both know what you're doing and you just got a lemon that scott didn't see? or

See what I'm saying? A bit hard to tell who's just stirring the shit. </div></div>

orkan, I promise you, rk knows what he is talking about. He is one person that calls it as he sees it. He has no reason to say anything negative about the PST.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Or do you both know what you're doing and you just got a lemon that scott didn't see? or
</div></div>

I suspect this...although Scott knows much more than I do. We (a friend and I) brought the click irregularities to the attention of the guy working the booth, and he mentioned something about them being prototypes only. Thats why I made the "thrown together" comment. Of the 4-16's I played with, all but one were really pretty decent considering the price point (one was the scope that had the off angle problem). The little issues just scared me a bit about preordering. The clicks were not as positive as my NF's, but if they say they're going to tighten things up, so be it.

No shit stirring from me. I am really impressed with Vortex as a company. I wanted nothing more than to go to SHOT and be blown away by the Razor and the PST's. Maybe my expectations were too high. Maybe the production models will be the cats meow. I'll wait and see. Needless to say, what I saw was more than likely a fluke. At least I hope.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

I think we are on the same page.
smile.gif


Thanks for clearing me up, and knowing I wasn't attacking you when I was just looking for a little quantification behind your statements.

smile.gif
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

After some discussion with Sam at Vortex, it seems that there were some early model prototypes in the mix at SHOT. They had issues with the clicks and have fixed them on current models. Looks like I felt a couple early ones.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Personally I only am only interested in the high end HD Razor scope. Wish we had one out here to test before spending 2K. </div></div>

With an EBR3 MRAD reticle, or maybe a re-worked EBR2, and a little better exit pupil, I'd probably buy one just to test out for a year. Hell, even as is with an EBR3, I'm very tempted. The reticle looked good, albeit a little thick, in the PST. </div></div>

I tend to agree with you there. I would love to see something P4F-ish in the scopes including the Razor
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Personally I only am only interested in the high end HD Razor scope. Wish we had one out here to test before spending 2K. </div></div>

With an EBR3 MRAD reticle, or maybe a re-worked EBR2, and a little better exit pupil, I'd probably buy one just to test out for a year. Hell, even as is with an EBR3, I'm very tempted. The reticle looked good, albeit a little thick, in the PST. </div></div>

I tend to agree with you there. I would love to see something P4F-ish in the scopes including the Razor </div></div>

I would kind of like a P4 fine smashed together with the EBR2, adding numbers right along the vertical crosshair. I'll send you a PM. Have a question.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

What a great response. I want to hear all the crap good and bad and sort through it. Just like premier. Read all the shit then get behind one. You either like it or don't. I feel the price point for the PST is a reasonable place to expect a quality scope with these features. Maybe even add a hundred for the illumination but right now nobody is doing that. I love my high end scopes but can't afford to put a USO, SB, Premier or even a NF on every gun in my safe. Wish I could. Anyway I, like a lot of people, have looked forward to a scope in the less than 1000.00 price range with this set of features. I think if SS had stepped up and put illumination and parallax adjustment on the the 3-9 they could have really stolen the show, even it they increased the price a couple of hundred. Hopefully the PST will live up to the hype. Thanks to all for the input. Good discussion so far. Anybody else had one in their hands?
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: radmcg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What a great response. I want to hear all the crap good and bad and sort through it. Just like premier. Read all the shit then get behind one. You either like it or don't. I feel the price point for the PST is a reasonable place to expect a quality scope with these features. Maybe even add a hundred for the illumination but right now nobody is doing that. I love my high end scopes but can't afford to put a USO, SB, Premier or even a NF on every gun in my safe. Wish I could. Anyway I, like a lot of people, have looked forward to a scope in the less than 1000.00 price range with this set of features. I think if SS had stepped up and put illumination and parallax adjustment on the the 3-9 they could have really stolen the show, even it they increased the price a couple of hundred. Hopefully the PST will live up to the hype. Thanks to all for the input. Good discussion so far. Anybody else had one in their hands? </div></div>

You know the PSTs are illuminated already ????
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

With an EBR3 MRAD reticle, or maybe a re-worked EBR2, and a little better exit pupil, I'd probably buy one just to test out for a year. Hell, even as is with an EBR3, I'm very tempted. <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">The reticle looked good, albeit a little thick, in the PST. </span></span></div></div>

rksimple,

Would you please go into more detail on the thickness of the reticle? Possibly be able to give a comparison??

Thanks for the info in your original post.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dinosdeuce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

With an EBR3 MRAD reticle, or maybe a re-worked EBR2, and a little better exit pupil, I'd probably buy one just to test out for a year. Hell, even as is with an EBR3, I'm very tempted. <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">The reticle looked good, albeit a little thick, in the PST. </span></span></div></div>

rksimple,

Would you please go into more detail on the thickness of the reticle? Possibly be able to give a comparison??

Thanks for the info in your original post. </div></div>

The reticle thickness in the EBR3 is .06 mils. I personally like .04 mils, a la P4Fine and Gen II XR. Its not too thick as to obscure the target, but not so thin as to lose it in dark or busy backgrounds.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: orkan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unless my math is wrong, .06 mil is less than 1/4" at 100yds right?

Thats pretty damn thin. </div></div>

Its OK. And it works well for most things, especially fast steel, hunting, etc. For paper, like F class, KYL 3/8" and 1/4" dots and the like, its just a bit too thick for my taste. Being that I like to have uniformity across most my rigs, I search for that perfect reticle. In the PST, its not a deal breaker as it would go on my AR10 or backup boltgun 308. In the Razor, or any of my intended first line optics, I may hold out for something a little thinner. Maybe...maybe not. Thats why I like to burn through a couple k rounds behind any scope before I really decide to keep it. Its hard to really evealuate it completely without putting in the time behind it under MANY different circumstances.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Well, maybe they can get more reticles in the lineup to help folks like you. I don't think they had paper punchers in mind when they created these scopes.

For me, where I'm only spending my time hunting and shooting steel... .06 mil should be perfect for me. Not so thin you can't find it, but thin enough that you can make precise shots.

I can't wait to spend some time behind one.
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Re: Viper prs scopes

Maybe. Being that I compete in everything from LR paper to steel, and I hunt with all my comp rifles, I just want one scope/reticle that does it all. Its a tall order to fill I know. I grew really fond of the P4 Fine and the Gen II XR while I had them both...for all applications. .04 seemed just about perfect. I'd have to really spend some time with the EBR2 on 1/4" dots and such. Historically, at big matches, steel is where I gain my points and paper is where I lose them. I'm trying to rectify that.
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Re: Viper prs scopes

You're right. Sorry to have gotten off on a tangent with respect to the Razor vs the PST line. I'm interested in both and drifted the thread into discussing both. My apologies.
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Now I have to get both the 6-24 and the 4-16 to compare and contrast.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rksimple</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Now I have to get both the 6-24 and the 4-16 to compare and contrast. </div></div>
No apologies needed, but I am with you on comparing both of these. I would like the 0.03 or .04 mrad on both of the PST mil scopes.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

Well I was there too. First thing I noticed about the Razor was the cheesy plastic illumination knob. On a $2000 scope??? Other than that I liked the Razor. While the Razor is technically heavier than a comperable NF, subjectivly the Nightforce just seems a little more rugged (to me). The reticle in the CQB PST is better than the reticle in the CQB Razor.

I also thought that the reticle was a little thicker than most at high magnification- but I personally think that is a good thing. I have never owned a FFP scope so I can see where there is a trade off to allow you to be able to see the reticle at lower power. Also as I get older I am noticing that it harder for me to pick up the reticle under high contrast situations- so to me the thick ret is a good thing. After all, if you choose the Mil/Mil version then your adjustments are only .36" anyway- pretty coarse. How thin of a reticle do you need? This is where there is a difference between comps and reality.

I didn't notice the image problems Ryan did but I did not play with all of the scopes (I never made it downstairs). To me the image seemed bright but it is hard to say when there are no scopes to directly compare against. Also we only had about 100yd max to view where they were located. The turret clicks were clearly too light and sloppy but the reps said they were fixing that on the production models.

Somewhere recently I read some hype that the PST scopes were like a smaller Nightforce- also that the turrets on the PST were like Nightforce. Huh?? In what way? The turrets are way smaller than those on the NXS. The clicks feel nothing alike. There is absolutely no comparison in ruggedness and overall weight between the PST and any NXS. The clicks on a NXS are POSITIVE. The weight and style of the PST are much closer to the Mark 4 series. Honestly after looking at the Vortex PST even Leupold seems to exhibit a little more quality in construction (my subjective opinion). If only Leupold would figure out how to deliver scopes without those mushy clicks. Yeah they will fix it. Yeah it is a pain in the ass to send scopes back.

The Razor is much closer to the NXS in weight and ruggedness- but those plastic parts- sheesh.

JMHO. Ryan knows more about scopes than I do (and shooting, it often seems). I would listen to Ryans opinions.
 
Re: Viper prs scopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 6mmFan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I was there too. First thing I noticed about the Razor was the cheesy plastic illumination knob. On a $2000 scope??? Other than that I liked the Razor. While the Razor is technically heavier than a comperable NF, subjectivly the Nightforce just seems a little more rugged (to me). The reticle in the CQB PST is better than the reticle in the CQB Razor.

I also thought that the reticle was a little thicker than most at high magnification- but I personally think that is a good thing. I have never owned a FFP scope so I can see where there is a trade off to allow you to be able to see the reticle at lower power. Also as I get older I am noticing that it harder for me to pick up the reticle under high contrast situations- so to me the thick ret is a good thing. After all, if you choose the Mil/Mil version then your adjustments are only .36" anyway- pretty coarse. How thin of a reticle do you need? This is where there is a difference between comps and reality.

I didn't notice the image problems Ryan did but I did not play with all of the scopes (I never made it downstairs). To me the image seemed bright but it is hard to say when there are no scopes to directly compare against. Also we only had about 100yd max to view where they were located. The turret clicks were clearly too light and sloppy but the reps said they were fixing that on the production models.

Somewhere recently I read some hype that the PST scopes were like a smaller Nightforce- also that the turrets on the PST were like Nightforce. Huh?? In what way? The turrets are way smaller than those on the NXS. The clicks feel nothing alike. There is absolutely no comparison in ruggedness and overall weight between the PST and any NXS. The clicks on a NXS are POSITIVE. The weight and style of the PST are much closer to the Mark 4 series. Honestly after looking at the Vortex PST even Leupold seems to exhibit a little more quality in construction (my subjective opinion). If only Leupold would figure out how to deliver scopes without those mushy clicks. Yeah they will fix it. Yeah it is a pain in the ass to send scopes back.

The Razor is much closer to the NXS in weight and ruggedness- but those plastic parts- sheesh.

JMHO. Ryan knows more about scopes than I do (and shooting, it often seems). I would listen to Ryans opinions. </div></div>

There are no plastic parts on the Razor, except for the fiber optic rods on the elevation turret and the mag ring. The illumination knob is all metal.

As far as the PST clicks go, they will be much better on the production models.

-Sam