Yeah. But that was all I got out of Ryan. No other details really.
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Rifle Scopes Vortex AMG 1-10 LPVO
- Thread starter Secant
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My son is in Naval Land Warfare, the big change with them and optics is the adoption of the VCOG 1x6 with a reticle calibrated to .77 grain ammo. They have a top mounted dot on the scope for NV work. The VCOG is apparently bomb proof and helps with PID.
I have to tread carefully here, but I think I can say this without getting myself in trouble.
I have had a chance to look carefully at multiple samples of the Gen 2 1-6x24, Gen3 1-10x24 and AMG 1-10x24 on the same day. With the eyepiece properly set up for my eye (and this takes a little time to properly dial-in), the visual experience through all three on 1x is remarkably similar.
There are some differences specific to SFP vs FFP reticles (with a bright SFP reticle, you can often still see the bright dot even if your eye has completely moved outside of the exit pupil), but outside of that, the eyebox, the disappearing eyepiece and field flatness were remarkably similar.
ILya
Beside the weight and proprietary mount (which actually make sense in this application) they are well though out optics. I like the fin size on the mag ring as well. Being powered by AA is something I wish more LPVO's could accomplish.
Thanks Ilya. Honestly considering the whole point of the LVPO is the 1x performance; having basically the same eyebox and 1x as my G3 1-10x24 while shaving off 3-5oz and 1.5” already makes it a product improvement. If I needed another LPVO I’d buy this AMG model due to being American made, lighter, and no worse on 1x than my current G3. Now if when it hits the market we find out the 10x is also a little better - then I might consider upgrading my current G3 as well.
Sir an NDA is an agreement not to disclose any information included in the agreement. You can’t violate that until the terms of the NDA are up or the company releases you from the agreement. Just because some knowledge has leaked does not release an individual from the terms. Lol
Plus Vortex are great folks why would anyone release anything they agreed not to just so the general public learns about it sooner.
In this world all manufacturers try to protect themselves best they can do others don’t steal there hard work until they are in the market place with product and reverse engineering occurs
If someone else releases information they shouldn't, it is on them, not on me.
One of the reasons all these optics companies talk to me is that when it comes to proprietary data, I follow the rules and keep my mouth shut. Before the product is released to the public, they set the rules.
The flip side of that coin is that when the product is out and it comes to doing an actual review, I release everything I find and the manufacturer does not get a vote on that. There, I set the rules.
ILya
To each their own. I tried a piggybacked Docter on my ACOG back during a 2007 deployment. I was not a fan of that height over bore and losing my stock frame of reference. That said, I never tried canting the rifle and seeing if the piggybacked red dot would line up with my left eye. I don’t think anybody was doing that concept back then.
For most military applications where you see a red dot sight piggybacked above the scope, it is really there primarily for use with NODs. Because focusing optics like LPVOs have defined eyerelief, it is very hard to get them set up so that you have a proper image with and without NODS. With the red dot sight not having set eyerelief and positions above and toward the front of the LPVO, NODs are pretty easy to use.
That is arguable the biggest reason to have the RDS piggybacked on top of the day optic. For use without NODs, I have not had good luck just lifting my had a little to see through the red dot. I have tried the approach Burdy uses with the LPVO mounted a little lower than typical, so that the red dot sight is not as high up. It works reasonably well for me, but isn't ideal. I suspect that it boils down to how we are all built: neck length, bone structure, posture, etc. I spent some time experimenting with that and gave up. I do not run NODs very much, so I have just been offsetting the RDS to the side. It is not very ambidextrous though, so now I am messing with canting the rifle, so that the RDS piggybacked on top is in front of the left eye (I am right handed and right eye dominant). That is working surprisingly decently for me, but will need more practice. I do like that this is a very ambidextrous approach.
In the grand scheme of things, with a nice LPVO when properly set up, I have to admit that simply using the scope on 1x is faster for me than messing with the piggybacked or offset dot. I do like having the redundancy of an additional optic on there, so I practice both ways when I have time.
ILya
Yeah, understood all.
From a passive aiming standpoint, back then the need for passive NIR aiming was just starting to develop, but there was nowhere near the need for it as there is today.
I have tied both 45* offsets with a G3 1-10 and a 12 o’clock on my ACOG. I’d like to try a 12 RMR on the 1-10 sitting a little lower .
For games, the 12 position works much better for me. When shooting VTACs, the offset red dot limited how I could hold the rifle, when I use the top mount and go 90*, I can use either side and either sight depending on how F’d up my position is. I can also get the rifle nice and flat on the ground or under barriers, instead of having the mag tilted up. I know the holds can be trained through, but this works for me under stress and still allows good trigger control.
I also didn’t care for the shadowing the scope put in my FOV, but I suspect I could have trianed through that or scanned/moved in more low ready position, eliminating this.
I like the top mount so much I am looking at buying a 1-6/1-8 and running Reptillian front ring cap (I can never find the Badger Condition 1 cap in stock). Dropping the scope to 1.50” and running an RMR at 12. This had worked well for me with the ACOG, and I absolutely love that setup, but I’m losing time at distance stages not having a MOA hash mark reticle, which is what I prefer to shoot and if I do start doing night matches I’d either need to buy a laser or change sights as the RMR is just too far back for NODs. Not many options for this reticle these days, but one stands out and is likely what I’ll try next, though I have some concern about the eye relief.
So many great options out here right now. It’s tough, a guy could go broke testing all the great shot we have access to.
For games, the 12 position works much better for me. When shooting VTACs, the offset red dot limited how I could hold the rifle, when I use the top mount and go 90*, I can use either side and either sight depending on how F’d up my position is. I can also get the rifle nice and flat on the ground or under barriers, instead of having the mag tilted up. I know the holds can be trained through, but this works for me under stress and still allows good trigger control.
I also didn’t care for the shadowing the scope put in my FOV, but I suspect I could have trianed through that or scanned/moved in more low ready position, eliminating this.
I like the top mount so much I am looking at buying a 1-6/1-8 and running Reptillian front ring cap (I can never find the Badger Condition 1 cap in stock). Dropping the scope to 1.50” and running an RMR at 12. This had worked well for me with the ACOG, and I absolutely love that setup, but I’m losing time at distance stages not having a MOA hash mark reticle, which is what I prefer to shoot and if I do start doing night matches I’d either need to buy a laser or change sights as the RMR is just too far back for NODs. Not many options for this reticle these days, but one stands out and is likely what I’ll try next, though I have some concern about the eye relief.
So many great options out here right now. It’s tough, a guy could go broke testing all the great shot we have access to.
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In my opinion getting the weight down for LPVOs is probably the next big thing over magnification. The AMG 1-10 is step in that direction dropping to 18oz. I‘d also like to see an AMG 1-6 (SFP) weighing under 16oz preferably around 12-14oz.
Agree. Go weigh a fancy whiz bang carbine these days. LPVO + mount, backup RDO, at least a white light WML, a suppressor, and if you’re cool a laser…an easy 12lbs. Throwing a pound on the end (suppressor) and two pounds on top (LPVO + mount) a carbine is ass.
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IDK...
Having messed with most of the high-end LPVO's, there does seem to be a tangible difference in balance and handling in the sub-18oz group, the 18-23oz, and the 1.5lb and heavier pigs...especially if you're into the higher-than 1.54" mount life.
What don’t you know? I think we’re agreeing here and I’ve edited my post for clarity. HOB will absolutely play a role when confined with weight; one of the reasons why I don’t like porker scopes on small frame DMR/SPR type guns where the weight over the rifle seems to be noticeable.
Read like you were stating 2lbs on top of an already fat rifle don't matter...that's how I took it.
I definitely understand this, a lot of people look through my rifle and while typically everyone is good with the positioning of the red dot as it's not that high...most can't then get low enough to see through the scope. So in their case, they would need a higher mount, further exacerbating the HOB issue. I have high cheekbones I guess, as precision rifle combs for me are usually very high just to allow me to see through a low-mounted scope...so it works for me, but certainly not for everyone. I also run my rifles with EXPS3's mounted on top of Unity risers, so I am used to the "chin-weld" height. Anatomically if it works for you, it has a lot of advantages like the VTAC efficiences mentioned above, a real solid cheek weld when prone and also the reduced offset of the LPVO when the gun is turned at angles..a lot less hold-off. The downside is you really throw away the use of the LVPO below about 2.5x or so...the dot is definitely going to be quicker when set up like that.
If I am running LPVO only, I will mount that sucker at 1.93 or 2.04 and let it ride....
At the end of the day I think the lesson is to set the gun up for you, and your use case, and don't just cookie cut your setup because "so and so" who is really good and cool has it mounted that way.
Spot on. There is no substitute to figuring out what works for you. I keep on experimenting with other options just to realize that for me a high quality optic mounted right around 1.5" above the flat top is the most natural setup. Go figure.
I do need to spend more time with NODs, but time is what I don't have a lot of.
ILya
100% that is what the team guys were doing. It was the VCOG for PID at range (6x) and (1X) for close. The red dot on top was just for nods and of course the laser unit up front. The 416s they were using were very heavy but they also felt really robust, very hard to break
I am personally of the opinion that Leupold should not have given up on the Devo so quickly. The concept is sound, the execution was not. If they were able to improve the eyebox and fov, it could have been a successful combat optic.
Forgive me for sounding like a luddite, but I'm genuinely curious why we all are bent around the axle about height over bore on a piggybacked optic as educated people who understand generally how to compensate for it in practice? I'm all for cheekweld and the advantages that it holds, but for what the 1-10 AMG appears to have been made to do (sit on top of a KS-1 and provide a lot of capability in a small package), should we really care about how much height over bore the RDS has?
I mention this only because I can say with near certainty that every person who has run a RDS at some point has accounted for height over bore in use, and any competent shooter generally knows where their holds are in relation to their dot. Is it an exact measurement as seen through most RDS? Not even a bit, but I'm willing to bet that we all have used the dot as a reference and then given a rough estimation/used said estimation to send rounds. Perhaps it's a question of training and philosophy of use: I'm curious as to what distances their ACROs are zeroed for on top of the LPVOs, as with different zeros come different advantages/drawbacks with that much distance from the bore.
Maybe what I'm also getting at is that, instead of solving this problem by a piggybacked RDS, we might want to entertain the thought of a piggybacked optic that has a more robust reticle option, while providing all the advantages of an RDS, especially when being used passively under NODs. Maybe a fixed 1x like that is way too bizarre a concept to gain a foothold or interest, but it sure would be an interesting concept.
I mention this only because I can say with near certainty that every person who has run a RDS at some point has accounted for height over bore in use, and any competent shooter generally knows where their holds are in relation to their dot. Is it an exact measurement as seen through most RDS? Not even a bit, but I'm willing to bet that we all have used the dot as a reference and then given a rough estimation/used said estimation to send rounds. Perhaps it's a question of training and philosophy of use: I'm curious as to what distances their ACROs are zeroed for on top of the LPVOs, as with different zeros come different advantages/drawbacks with that much distance from the bore.
Maybe what I'm also getting at is that, instead of solving this problem by a piggybacked RDS, we might want to entertain the thought of a piggybacked optic that has a more robust reticle option, while providing all the advantages of an RDS, especially when being used passively under NODs. Maybe a fixed 1x like that is way too bizarre a concept to gain a foothold or interest, but it sure would be an interesting concept.
Top of head and send it. FWIW, I zero my piggybacked dot at 100y, which takes...patience.
I agree with your assessment. If it wasn't unweildy and heavy to piggyback an XPS2, I would.
After all...some do run the Hydra mount at 2.91....
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I've started to believe that the higher the height over bore, the more a 100 yard/100 meter zero makes more sense. That being said, it definitely takes patience to zero!
EOTech has a lot of great features to offer: size, weight, and power consumption are not three of them. They work very, very well on a Unity FAST riser though, especially when paired with their magnifier setup.
I use round steel the same MOA as the dot. With my aging eyes, that's about the only way to do it. I only need it to be as accurate as that anyway.
Where does one find comet or sausage shaped steel? Astigmatism owner checking in.
After reading through these couple pages again I decided to retry piggyback. I'm sending back the Reptilia ROF-45 45° mount and instead picked up the 90/12 o'clock mount adapter and decided to grab the new Holosun EPS with 6 moa red dot, my eyes only like certain holographics (and Eotech's are not them!) and hear good things about Holosun so hoping that along with the 6 moa dot may be money for me. Getting used to the piggyback may take some getting used to, but unless the 45 offset is right off the flat top rail (not off the scope) then I think 12 position is something I just need to train myself to utilize better.
@Burdy, any chance you have any video of you running a stage(s) up on U2B or somewhere?
@Burdy, any chance you have any video of you running a stage(s) up on U2B or somewhere?
I hope it works for you. Ironically, I find myself going the other way; actually prefer the 45* offset vs. 12 O’clock with a spacer for speed work. And no holo sights for me either…they all look fuzzy to me, but my son loves ‘em.
I do still like the higher 12 O’Clock positioning for red dots for NVGs though.
I don't think I have video, but I might have an action photo or two I could send over to your inbox. I feel like we have bastardized this poor Vortex 1-10 thread, lol.
But what does that say? I have had my 1-10 for two years, and when I know I’m going to be shooting jacked up positions, it’s not the upper I reach for. It is a bad ass scope, no doubt. And I am somewhat ashamed to say the guy I let borrow that rifle for Legion outshot me with it. (Caveat: due to penalties) On one speed stage he was 2 seconds faster in a running 3 shot per C zone stage with targets wearing differing uniforms (only shoot m81) at various yardages in the woods. It can be as fast or faster than a red dot.
If I’ve learned anything from all of you it’s run what you like, and train harder if you suck. I have every manner of fucking kit there is short of NODs and FA and none of it makes me better, or has me rising to the occasion or even forgetting my training less. It’s just more comfortable.
I think of it as we're keeping the thread alive in hopes that Vortex will take note and see there is great interest in a AMG 1-10 shorty...
Thanks for all you do and your helpful tips throughout the years, you're part of the reason that makes the Hide so great!
I think of it as we're keeping the thread alive in hopes that Vortex will take note and see there is great interest in a AMG 1-10 shorty...
Thanks for all you do and your helpful tips throughout the years, you're part of the reason that makes the Hide so great!
I know it’s out of favor with most here, but I REALLY want a no-BDC, preferably not tree, MOA hash mark reticle to 30 MOA. The circle dot center is fine, and needed I assume for 1x. It would nice if they could shave the weight some but whatever. The rest of the scope is spot on IMO. Maybe offer it in black
I know it’s out of favor with most here, but I REALLY want a no-BDC, preferably not tree, MOA hash mark reticle to 30 MOA. The circle dot center is fine, and needed I assume for 1x. It would nice if they could shave the weight some but whatever. The rest of the scope is spot on IMO. Maybe offer it in black
I ended up putting my G3 1-10x on a 30-06 as the BDC will be close enough for hunting out to 400 yards. Would much prefer a standard MOA reticle so I can use it on whatever I want.
I find direct contact works better. If over the next month everyone in this thread emailed or called Vortex asking about buying this scope they’d get the message pretty clear.I think of it as we're keeping the thread alive in hopes that Vortex will take note and see there is great interest in a AMG 1-10 shorty...
Thanks for all you do and your helpful tips throughout the years, you're part of the reason that makes the Hide so great!
I know this is a lpvo thread but come on vortex can we get a new AMG FFP 2-12 or something in that ball park as a crossover scope. That market is bare. And I don’t trust the newer LHTs too many bad reports and 4.5x on the low end is too much.
Everyone have their wallets ready?
www.eurooptic.com
A bit cheaper if you have LE/mil/veteran discount.
Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
FREE SHIPPING on Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
A bit cheaper if you have LE/mil/veteran discount.
I wonder how this will compare to the Short Dot Dual CC given the $4k price. Will it be usable on 10x or is it really a 1-8x scope?
Good eye there on the Eurooptic site. Eager to see it dropEveryone have their wallets ready?
Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
FREE SHIPPING on Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
View attachment 8265247
A bit cheaper if you have LE/mil/veteran discount.
I have the dual CC. What would this Vortex have to be to make me switch? I'm not sure, maybe if it was much lighter, with a fantastic reticle and equal or better glass.
That’s a spicy meatball, even with the mil/le/vet discount.Everyone have their wallets ready?
Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
FREE SHIPPING on Vortex AMG 1-10x24mm FFP EBR-9 Super Short Riflescope AMG-11098
View attachment 8265247
A bit cheaper if you have LE/mil/veteran discount.
Unless there’s something really great about it, I’m not seeing any reason to get it over the March 1-10 fx DFP.
If the price is because they can’t sell it lower than a government contract price, I get it. Otherwise, not sure what they’re thinking.
Still doesn’t have parallax. Leupold has the right idea with the 2-10 but they need to make it with a reticle that doesn’t suck… that plus a side or 12 o’clock dot…
At 24mm it doesn't need parallax IMO. If it had parallax it would be immediately a no-go for me. I had S&B move mine to 300m, you simply don't need anything else at 24mm at these mag ranges.Still doesn’t have parallax. Leupold has the right idea with the 2-10 but they need to make it with a reticle that doesn’t suck… that plus a side or 12 o’clock dot…
It’s not about adjusting out parallax error, it’s about focus. Even with a 24mm objective, when using 10x, things get out of focus at farther and closer distances pretty quickly.
I'm sure it will be like the other 1-10 vortex in that the difference in optical quality will negate the difference of 2x...and probably not as good as the MDR t6 for the class/use of this optic.
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