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I agree it must just be that people don't know about them. I remember calling Vortex before I bought mine in November asking about them and the guy I talked to thought they'd all been sold already since it was (to his knowledge) a one time run they did for EuroOptic during the summer.Well, I hope they keep making them for Euro, and running them at the same price. Those are a big hit, and it seems most older and traditional folks prefer the black over the rusty brown color. The thing is, I don't think most folks even know they exist. If they did, I bet they'd be selling like hotcakes. LOL
I'm aware of the MSRP jump and I promise msrp doesn't affect dealer pricing or map.
Wait where is that thread I missed itHim constantly on his knees voluntarily blowing Athlon and China, and then them tracking his posts on here, and rolling him over and fucking him like a $2.00 whore on those warranty claims was truly a masterful thing to watch...
"Just buy a bunch of them on your credit card, and open the boxes, and mount them but don't leave ring marks, and whichever ones you don't like, send back for a full-refund...The companies taking a loss for now being forced to sell open-box items isn't my problem..."
I was paraphrasing months worth of posts, but he did say some stupid shit like encouraging people to buy scopes, open the boxes and then send them back if they didn't like them. Pretty shitty thing to do, honestly.Wait where is that thread I missed it
Wait where is that thread I missed it
You buy them open box, and shave 3-400 off, and they warranty anyway, thankully you only have to experience this bullshit a couple time a your lolCan we call vortex directly and bypass expert voice ?
Well it sure as hell increased the mil/LEO price on expert voice lmfaoI'm aware of the MSRP jump and I promise msrp doesn't affect dealer pricing or map.
After tax it's $2600 for a black G3 from EuroOptic. I'd agree though that if I had needed to spend $3000 to get mine, I'd probably be looking elsewhere.No matter where you get it now it's flirting with the 3k mark after tax. I would think someone that is going to drop that on a scope would just come up with the extra thou or so and do what they were thinking about anyway.
Better $ if you ask for me, or shoot me a message, as always!So, will I still be able to continue to buy the black G3's at EuroOptic ( @Euro.Connor ) for $2449 throughout 2024?
Ah, then why cause all the consternation by raising the MSRP is its not intended/going to effect retail price?I'm aware of the MSRP jump and I promise msrp doesn't affect dealer pricing or map.
Ah, then why cause all the consternation by raising the MSRP is its not intended/going to effect retail price?
Perhaps I'm a wee bit more dense that usual, but I don't see any upside and, as shown in this thread, there certainly is some downside from the confusion this has caused in their market for these scopes.
The heartburn you're seeing from members is because a lot of folks here buy their Vortex scopes at a steep discount through Vortex's Mil/LEO program on sites like ExpertVoice. And those prices are calculated based on MSRP, not MAP.
So the dudes with the big discounts got a pretty big price hike (a few months back, actually), whereas someone without that access may not see one at all, since the lowest price they're likely to pay is MAP (Minimum Advertised Price), which Scott is saying Vortex hasn't touched.
The Pro is getting a new look. For all the non-lovers of the red highlights.This is a big oof
For a few scheckles more you can get a used ZCO
Or two Burris XTR Pros
Long overdue... I can't stand the red...That's literally the only reason I bought an XTR-III 5.5-30x over a Pro.The Pro is getting a new look. For all the non-lovers of the red highlights.
Have you looked through it out the back door yet? Thoughts on the glass?I guess I'll either have to make due with the red, or sell my replacement when it gets back from Burris and maybe order an all black.
My black Razor Gen 3 came in yesterday. It is now sitting on my AT-X. Seems nice, but have not put it up against anyhing yet to compare to. Will do that in a few days. I certainly appreciate the smoothness in the magnification ring and parallax dials right off the bat.
Have you looked through it out the back door yet? Thoughts on the glass?
Limited Edition Stealth Shadow ?The Pro is getting a new look. For all the non-lovers of the red highlights.
Thanks curious to hear what you think, I should have mine Wednesday so I'll post back sometime after that.Oh yeah, spent ~30 minutes sighting in on things across the pasture. The limiting factor is that I was looking through my glass windows as well. Weather here is supposed to be crappy for the next week. Right now, all I know is that I like everything that is supposed to move. Eyebox above 25x gets a bit tight...but I'll only ever be that high in magnification if I'm prone or on a bench, so not really any drawback. Eyebox 15-20x is very nice, which is where most guys are probably running it.
Back to "glass". I still have my buddy's S&B 5-25 PMII, and will put those side by side soon. I did that with my XTR Pro, and was surprised how close they were in clarity and resolution...but the edge still went to the S&B. From everything that I've read, the G3 "should" have better glass than the XTR Pro. I'll be able to give an unbiased opinion soon (hopefully) since I own both.
something something Austin Buschmann, not a jersey boy and crushes people.99% of comp shooters are NOT sponsored. People buy their own gear with their own money.
yea, if they ever put fuckin MIL based ones on the site and they don't sell out to bots within 30 seconds.Mk4hd with the mil discount though…
I'm aware of the MSRP jump and I promise msrp doesn't affect dealer pricing or map.
Vortex needs to be careful. They have a winning price/performance recipe with the Gen 3 6-36 that is working. If they are just pushing up MSRP and plan on leaving MAP alone for marketing purposes, that is one thing, but not sure why they would do it other than to make someone not paying attention think they are getting a screaming price with MAP. However, if they actually plan to push up MAP (and the street price as a result), that could spoil the formula. Right now the value proposition is "almost as good as ZCO/Tangent for 40% off comparable street prices". If the proposition becomes "almost as good for almost as much money" that could backfire. I've been thinking about picking one up. The less than $3K price here and there on sale is already hefty and in the alpha range, leading one to ask "Should I pay this much for a compromise, even if it's not a big compromise?" Push the street price up another $500 and forget the compromise, I'll stick with the top dogs.
Brother testing one scope against another single scope by a single tester will seldom give an overall concussion That test would take many different production samples and many different users to get an accurate resultWith the current increase in MSRP pricing which is what the LEO/MIL program is based off of, it's putting the Gen3 at the same price as the NightForce ATACR line.
I've done a side by side of the Gen3 6-36x56 and the Nightforce 7-35x56 and the Nightforce has the edge over the Gen3 in clarity and light gathering, that being said yeah Vortex is going to loose a huge amount of thier sales to Nightforce with its LEO/Mil customers who buy direct from Vortex or ExpertVoice. Nightforce also carries over a higher value in the second hand Market as well.
I already said that I really like Vortex. But, the Nightforce name carries more prestige. If these 2 scopes are really a coin flip, and they are priced equivalently, more consumers will pick Nightforce for the name than they will Vortex. This is the quagmire Vortex risks wading into with what I’m going to call a “prestige” increase in “price.”Brother testing one scope against another single scope by a single tester will seldom give an overall concussion That test would take many different production samples and many different users to get an accurate result
From all my samples of both I have seen in classes I teach I can say both the Zheng 3 Vortex and top Nightforce are better than needed and different people see one or the other as the better optics In short both fng great
I've thought about this some more and I'm throwing the BS flag on this one unless Scott comes back and provides an actual cogent, logical reason for raising MSRP while claiming there will be no effect on actual retail sales price.
This makes zero sense and its difficult to understand the advantage to Vortex for doing this unless they expect to raise dealer...and hence retail...pricing.
This just doesn't smell right to me.
Brother testing one scope against another single scope by a single tester will seldom give an overall concussion That test would take many different production samples and many different users to get an accurate result
From all my samples of both I have seen in classes I teach I can say both the Gen 3 Vortex and top Nightforce are better than needed and different people see one or the other as the better optics In short both fng great
I already said that I really like Vortex. But, the Nightforce name carries more prestige. If these 2 scopes are really a coin flip, and they are priced equivalently, more consumers will pick Nightforce for the name than they will Vortex. This is the quagmire Vortex risks wading into with what I’m going to call a “prestige” increase in “price.”
Remember that Scott already said that they just raised the price. They didn’t raise the price…
What is expert voice?
What was the price of a Gen III last month. Haven’t paid attention but EuroOptic is listing it at $2999.99I've thought about this some more and I'm throwing the BS flag on this one unless Scott comes back and provides an actual cogent, logical reason for raising MSRP while claiming there will be no effect on actual retail sales price.
This makes zero sense and its difficult to understand the advantage to Vortex for doing this unless they expect to raise dealer...and hence retail...pricing.
This just doesn't smell right to me.
Most likely because the number of people purcahsing scopes on expert voice for 40% discounts has reached critical mass and they're fucking sick of it lolI've thought about this some more and I'm throwing the BS flag on this one unless Scott comes back and provides an actual cogent, logical reason for raising MSRP while claiming there will be no effect on actual retail sales price.
This makes zero sense and its difficult to understand the advantage to Vortex for doing this unless they expect to raise dealer...and hence retail...pricing.
This just doesn't smell right to me.
Nobody is making them use EV. With the price increase, even at EV price, one is forced to entertain other options.Most likely because the number of people purcahsing scopes on expert voice for 40% discounts has reached critical mass and they're fucking sick of it lol
No but I am sure they would get a lot of flak for discontinuing that program, this way it just makes that program worthless for their flagship products.Nobody is making them use EV. With the price increase, even at EV price, one is forced to entertain other options.
Totally agree.No but I am sure they would get a lot of flak for discontinuing that program, this way it just makes that program worthless for their flagship products.
There's the problem. While still a good a scope, the PST 2 is a dinosaur. The price increase will drive consumers elsewhere, even at mil and LE prices.Not just flagship products, the MSRP on a PST Gen II went to $1650. At 50% off that's still $825, basically what a bunch of stores were selling them to anyone for 3 months ago. Every store now, is priced at exactly $1099 on those scopes across the board. Not sure how Vortex does math but that's a significant effective price increase.
Seems like what they really did was make it so Mil/LE took the biggest price increase and are now paying what street prices were 3 months ago, and everyone else is paying 20% more than street prices were. Vortex can say they didn't increase dealer cost or MAP all they want, reality is if you buy a Vortex today you're going to pay a lot more than 3 months ago.
Which is a real problem on the forums actually. When the SE came out everyone was enamored with it. All you read was how amazing it was, how great the glass was for the price, what a great deal at the price point it was, etc. etc. Fast forward 3 years and everyone has figured out they are not that impressive, not garbage, but not great, and it's not that $600 optics have gotten so amazing in 3 years that they've just fallen behind the new stuff. Same thing happened with the Bushnell Match Pro, and is happening with the Match Pro HD and XTR III, the list goes on an on. It's very rare a product 2 years after release is thought of even close to as highly as it was hyped and reviewed in it's first season.$800 for Chinese strike eagles and $1000+ for PST’s is absolutely insane. I wouldn’t pay half of that for either of them.
Which is a real problem on the forums actually. When the SE came out everyone was enamored with it. All you read was how amazing it was, how great the glass was for the price, what a great deal at the price point it was, etc. etc. Fast forward 3 years and everyone has figured out they are not that impressive, not garbage, but not great, and it's not that $600 optics have gotten so amazing in 3 years that they've just fallen behind the new stuff. Same thing happened with the Bushnell Match Pro, and is happening with the Match Pro HD and XTR III, the list goes on an on. It's very rare a product 2 years after release is thought of even close to as highly as it was hyped and reviewed in it's first season.
It's a warning about every new product that comes out. It seems like so many of them get hyped up, either by marketing, or sponsored shooters, reps etc. that we quickly find out in a couple years the products don't live up to all we hear about them early on. We hear a lot about how people only come online to post negative things, but I think most would be very shocked to see how many people are also posting positive things with ulterior motives. Entire significant companies exist now to do nothing but generate realistic fake reviews for companies/products. It's now estimated that 20-25% of all reviews for common products are fake. There's thousands of private facebook groups where people get paid to write fake reviews, estimated to have over 1 million members.
That's not even getting into the issue of manufacturer pressure on forums. Even Lowlight has said that manufacturer(s) basically put an end to SH releasing scope tracking testing results because they were too butt hurt about them.
It's fair, but we've certainly seen some cracks in Burris recently being reported in both customer service and product issues. Sure all companies have issues, certainly more so since Covid, and we hear more about bad than good, etc. Their holding company Beretta is hardly known for high customer service, in fact the extreme opposite. Sig is another company that when they first started making rifle scopes they could do no wrong, and a couple years later the real story that their glass quality is pretty much abysmal at the price points has come to light. Their $1000+ Sierra6 BDX and Tango6 scopes originally got ridiculously high praise. The Sierra6 BDX line doesn't even compare optically to a $300 Bushnell Elite that's 15 years old.
It will be interesting to see if in a couple years if the XTR III still maintains a high level of praise, as more and more of them get into the wild. There's always the new shiny syndrome, we all want our gear choices to be the best performance/value, and frankly most folks don't go through enough product, or understand the scientific process to make repeatable valid conclusions comparing optics, so that also works in manufacturers favor. It's really too bad that in sporting optics there's no independent optical labs testing gear with real optics eval gear like you see for say camera lenses, astronomy telescopes, etc.
It's fair, but we've certainly seen some cracks in Burris recently being reported in both customer service and product issues. Sure all companies have issues, certainly more so since Covid, and we hear more about bad than good, etc. Their holding company Beretta is hardly known for high customer service, in fact the extreme opposite. Sig is another company that when they first started making rifle scopes they could do no wrong, and a couple years later the real story that their glass quality is pretty much abysmal at the price points has come to light. Their $1000+ Sierra6 BDX and Tango6 scopes originally got ridiculously high praise. The Sierra6 BDX line doesn't even compare optically to a $300 Bushnell Elite that's 15 years old.
It will be interesting to see if in a couple years if the XTR III still maintains a high level of praise, as more and more of them get into the wild. There's always the new shiny syndrome, we all want our gear choices to be the best performance/value, and frankly most folks don't go through enough product, or understand the scientific process to make repeatable valid conclusions comparing optics, so that also works in manufacturers favor. It's really too bad that in sporting optics there's no independent optical labs testing gear with real optics eval gear like you see for say camera lenses, astronomy telescopes, etc.