Rifle Scopes Vortex GEN 3 Razor Price increase.

#151
The xtr3 and xtr pros I looked through had really good glass. Better than any mk5 I've looked through. I think it's a better scope if you can deal with super thin reticles. Shooting on 20-22 power should be perfect for matches.

Xtr3 is an absolute steal at what you can get them for. The pro is more diminishing returns because it had alot of comp In that price range. I would never take a pro over a gen 3 but would take one over a mk5 in a heartbeat.
 
#152
I just got a Mk5 7-35 CCH, XTR Pro SCR2, and XTR3 5.5-30 SCR to compare. I’m going to keep two of them and sell the third.

I had an XTR3i 3.3-18 and swapped it in a good trade. It seemed like a very good scope but my action still hasn’t come in so I let it go and grabbed a 5.5-30. The Philippine model did fix the control/user experience issues of the US models.

I really like all of these scopes and have a feeling I’ll keep the XTR Pro & XTR3 and sell the Mk5 but it’s still a toss up.

The Mk5 feels a lot better than it looks, I’ve always thought that the Leupolds look really fragile so it’s good that they feel fairly robust and well made. The turrets are great, I like the lock and rev indicator. The windage as you guys know is a guessing game trying to get the turret and etch line paired up. The CCH reticle I’m unsure of so far, I don’t think I’m going to like it in light of more modern tree reticles but I’m waiting to try it. The FOV of this series combined with this mag range makes it pretty narrow next to the XTR’s.

The XTR Pro has some sweet features with essentially three turret options and the true quick-release plunger system for the turret. The controls all have a nice resistance. I haven’t been able to test the glass yet. I like the SCR2. I bought this scope used and the controls feel crunchy, like the last user had a lot of fine dust that got under the controls and is fouling them.

The XTR3 is a US model and the elevation and mag ring are a little stiff, and the knobs are sharp with this much resistance. Not terrible but it’s noticeable. My parallax is a little stiff. The SCR reticle is a little thick but ok. The glass is awesome.

I wouldn’t say the Mk5 is like staring through a paper towel roll, but it does feel like you’re looking 6” into the scope before you see the glass. The Burris models by comparison are awesome with an almost-all-glass feel when you look through them. I think the xtr3 5.5-30 is probably a gem at current prices if you want a second-tier scope at third-tier pricing.
 
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#153
DeathBeforeDismount said:
It's really a 3500 optic when compared to a 4000 zco and a 5000 TT. It's a better optic than anything else comparable( lrp5, s&b, 735 atacr, 525i). There is a 4th ( minox zp5) but their customer support and warranty process is so fucking bad they aren't even a consideration.

The mrsp on them is absolutely fucking ridiculous but thats how vortex wants to play it with their discount program and probally accounting rules to maximize "losses" to avoid taxes.

But it's an excellent scope. The issue is once you go north of 2500 for one, you are getting into used zco and TT prices. All 3 are alphas but those 2 do some thing better and alot of people find it to be worth the additional cost. I wouldn't pay more than 2100 for a gen 3 razor since you can get one for that with eo cert.

2k for a gen 3 new/used
3-3.2k for a used zco
3.3-3.6k for used tangent
I don't think the 735TT is worth the premium ATM. Probally 4500 used.

Thats the fair market.
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For you what puts the Gen3 or the ATACR??
 
#155
DeathBeforeDismount said:
Better glass, better reticle, better turrets, better warranty/cs and doesn't have the dumb ass rotating ocular.
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I don't like the rotating ocular either, I like the EBR-7D as well but I always liked the Mil-XT. You're right about the turrets for sure but to my eye the glass just seems better in the ATACR, as for the warranty I've never had to use it on a Nightforce but definitely have used the Vortex warranty a time or two. The better FOV and 5.8oz weight savings isn't bad either.
 
#156
I just bought 3 GEN3'S before this whole price increase happened and I'm quite happy with them.

I also just ordered a few Bushnell DMR3's 3.5-21x50 with the EQL reticle. I've had all generations of the DMR's and ive never had an issue with any of them. You definitely get a lot of scope with the DMR3's for around $1,200
 
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#157
Trying to circle back to the point, it has been mentioned in other threads but the other matter that Vortex keeps failing to address is the HUGE gap in their lineup, especially since the PST2 is essentially obsolete at the new prices.
 
#159
I switched to two Mk5s from G3 Razors. Vortex glass is superior but the locking turrets and the reticle were annoying enough for me, on a PRS gun, to switch.

As far as pricing, the G3 is pretty hard to beat in that top tier optics class. Euro has the regular brown color ones for 3k (before discounts), I'm not sure I'd get one for that but at around 2500 they are really hard to beat.
 
#163
bigjake83 said:
I don't like the rotating ocular either, I like the EBR-7D as well but I always liked the Mil-XT. You're right about the turrets for sure but to my eye the glass just seems better in the ATACR, as for the warranty I've never had to use it on a Nightforce but definitely have used the Vortex warranty a time or two. The better FOV and 5.8oz weight savings isn't bad either.
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The atacr has good resolution but it's a very cool color tone. The gen 3 is brighter and pops more for me. I noticed same thing with zco and TT. Zco was brighter and had more pop but TT had a cooler color with really good resolution.

I think a big part to it is our eyes. Different degrees of color blindness effect how optics look. It's why 2 guys look at same thing and can't agree.
 
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#164
DeathBeforeDismount said:
The atacr has good resolution but it's a very cool color tone. The gen 3 is brighter and pops more for me. I noticed same thing with zco and TT. Zco was brighter and had more pop but TT had a cooler color with really good resolution.

I think a big part to it is our eyes. Different degrees of color blindness effect how optics look. It's why 2 guys look at same thing and can't agree.
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I'm in this camp as well. ATACR glass just doesn't do it for me. I've always liked the Razor line up. I've beat the hell out of my GII 6x in 3 Gun. I like the way both the GII and GIII handle color. The blues always seem a little more blue.

It's a crazy decision to be made though regarding best bang for your buck. Is the GIII so much nicer than the Pro, the T6Xi, or the Zeiss S3 that it's worth the extra money? And having decided if it is worth the extra money, is it now worth it to spend a little more for a NF, Kahles, or used ZCO, or TT?
 
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#166
Mongo68 said:
What is this EO cert being discussed? Thanks
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Europtics puts tons of certs on PRS prize tables at every Pro Series match. They are good for 30% off the advertised price of any Vortex in their store.

Vortex puts 50% off MSRP certs on the prize tables. Which brings up another reason for the disgruntlement over an MSRP increase.
 
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#167
bigjake83 said:
Wouldn't the MSRP increase affect the LEO/Military Pricing? Because like stated above it's already reflecting on Expert voice as well.
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Yes, exactly.
Your discount through EV or agency purchase will likely line up with the MAP.
Little to no effect on regular street price.
I like vortex Japanese made scopes, but they were beyond my means without the discount. Now, they are beyond my means with it.
Sucks to be poor, but I can't fault them for the move.
 
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#168
Birddog6424 said:
Europtics puts tons of certs on PRS prize tables at every Pro Series match. They are good for 30% off the advertised price of any Vortex in their store.

Vortex puts 50% off MSRP certs on the prize tables. Which brings up another reason for the disgruntlement over an MSRP increase.
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Ah thank you. First pro series is supposed to be Sunday but Mother Nature looks like she’s going rain that one out…
 
#169
Mongo68 said:
Ah thank you. First pro series is supposed to be Sunday but Mother Nature looks like she’s going rain that one out…
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Shot more than a few matches in the rain 🤣

If it's just a one day, Sunday match, it's a regional match. Pro Series matches are a two day match with a prize table. Fingers crossed for you that the weather holds and you get to shoot! Crack out the rain gear and keep your ammo dry 😉
 
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#170
fdkay said:
Yes, exactly.
Your discount through EV or agency purchase will likely line up with the MAP.
Little to no effect on regular street price.
I like vortex Japanese made scopes, but they were beyond my means without the discount. Now, they are beyond my means with it.
Sucks to be poor, but I can't fault them for the move.
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It’s still a little below, but typical discounts vendors offer is considerably better now, a 30% off MAP cert is WAYYYY better. It works out to not even being 5% below MAP. Or on the G3 you can buy the Euro Optic version for over $400 less than the EV price and get one that’s not the color of dog shit glistening in the morning light.

It’s kinda shitty they’ve done this and to first responders at that. Vortex might want to rethink this strategy.
 
#171
redneckbmxer24 said:
It’s still a little below, but typical discounts vendors offer is considerably better now, a 30% off MAP cert is WAYYYY better. It works out to not even being 5% below MAP. Or on the G3 you can buy the Euro Optic version for over $400 less than the EV price and get one that’s not the color of dog shit glistening in the morning light.

It’s kinda shitty they’ve done this and to first responders at that. Vortex might want to rethink this strategy.
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Totally agree and it will drive LE and mil eligible buyers to Athlon, Burris, and Bushnell because of it.
 
#173
I have a Gen II and hoping to buy a Gen III this year. I am not all surprized that companies are being forced to raise prices in this economy. An economy out there that every liberal will tell you is fantastic, but I’m here to tell you it’s not so great. I run a small business and my costs have gone through the roof!! That’s not even mentioning my personal household expenses which have doubled or tripled.

Doing business with Vortex has been one of the great pleasures of this craft. They are by far the most professional and generous company, I have ever dealt with in my life. They have gone above and beyond for me more times than I can count.

They are also company that makes no bones about being solid behind the second amendment and fully supporting the shooting community.

Furthermore it is sad to see this demographic have such an entitled attitude when it comes to discounts. As far as I can see, Vortex has been extremely generous to this community in many ways, including industry discounts. If they are tightening their belt, you can bet your bottom dollar, there is a reason for it.

The dust hasn’t even settled on the Liberty Optics fiasco, and this thread pops up. No one likes it when prices go up. One thing I’m confident of, is that when Vortex goes up on prices it’s because they need to, not because they want to price gouge this community.
 
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#174
srt-4_uk said:
A lot of "You're welcome for my service" types in here.
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I don’t think it has anything to do with that. They’ve built a reputation of providing good discount to first responders and now they just slapped only them in the face with this MSRP increase and anyone can go save 5-10%+ more just calling a vendor and asking for a discount than what their mil/le price is.
 
#175
srt-4_uk said:
A lot of "You're welcome for my service" types in here.
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I don't think that's the case at all. The simple fact is the first responder segment is a HUGE portion of the Vortex market and happens to take the biggest hit with the change. I don't think anyone asked for or expects the discount, it's just something that has been the case since forever. You would buy at the same discount if you could, everyone would unless you just hate money. The other companies are now superior in their discount programs so people will spend their money elsewhere. That simple.
 
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#176
I have many Vortex Scopes. They have become my go to company for all my optics needs. I can look in all the price points and pick the pain level I can handle for the particular need and get an optic that works great and has lifetime warranty.

My Gen 3 6-36 scope is freaking awesome My 5-25 PST is a workhorse and my 1-8 Strike Eagle shocks me how well it works

How Vortex handle the Liberty Optics thing impressed me beyond belief.
Lots of great brands out there and to each there own but I am pretty happy running Vortex
 
#177
The warranty is something else. Vortex absolutely crushes everyone else in that regard. The problem is far, far too many people get to use it. As the price gap narrows, one has to ask themselves if it's worth playing the Vortex lottery at all?
 
#178
Wirides said:
I don't think that's the case at all. The simple fact is the first responder segment is a HUGE portion of the Vortex market and happens to take the biggest hit with the change. I don't think anyone asked for or expects the discount, it's just something that has been the case since forever. You would buy at the same discount if you could, everyone would unless you just hate money. The other companies are now superior in their discount programs so people will spend their money elsewhere. That simple.
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I can only speak for myself being retired LE. I never expect a discount and my equipment choices were always based on what I wanted not the amount of discount given
 
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#180
Wirides said:
The warranty is something else. Vortex absolutely crushes everyone else in that regard. The problem is far, far too many people get to use it. As the price gap narrows, one has to ask themselves if it's worth playing the Vortex lottery at all?
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I have broken every brand of scope worth talking about over the years I have seen companies handle repairs very well and others play games. I do not believe Vortex has any more warranty claims per 1000 scopes sold than any other brand out there.
 
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#183
MikeMiller said:
I have broken every brand of scope worth talking about over the years I have seen companies handle repairs very well and others play games. I do not believe Vortex has any more warranty claims per 1000 scopes sold than any other brand out there.
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Agreed. You can't have a no questions asked warranty, and then put out a product that is continually costing you free scopes or free repairs. It would be cheaper to just make good optics.

People really underestimate just how many optics Vortex sells. A simple google search will show you how big of a company they are....and that's just what you'll find publicly.
 
#184
MikeMiller said:
Agree completely. No one using for real duty will go to those companies. Market share of duty scopes are between Leupold, Vortex and Nightforce because they are all great tough scopes
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More scopes are purchased for hunting and recreation than for actual duty. I wasn't taking just about $2k plus. That's where the Athlon (Cronus, ETR) , Burris (xtr iii) , and Bushnell (MPED) come in. Other than the Razor, Vortex doesn't have what most would consider to be duty rated options. Nightforce rules that department.
 
#185
Wirides said:
More scopes are purchased for hunting and recreation than for actual duty. That's where the Athlon (Cronus, ETR) , Burris (xtr iii) , and Bushnell (MPED) come in. Other than the Razor, Vortex doesn't have what most would consider to be duty rated options. Nightforce rules that department.
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Actually from the LE students I have seen Leupold is first, Nightforce is second and Vortex has been making huge increases every year. I agree Vortex needs more high end options but look where they are now compared to ten years ago.
Leupold has been around forever and Nightforce is 30 years in the making

LE and Mil change slow because they want history of good products before change.
 
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#186
Interesting, it appears Leupold also offers a first responder program. Lots of love for their new MK4 HD and it's not even released yet. It's another example of how saturated the market is with great options. It's a good problem to have. Back to the point of the thread, that's why Vortex needs to be careful with the pricing.
 
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#187
Good point. I am just teacher of the products these days and terrible business man.
Leupold and Nightforce have discount programs as well. I recommend all of them because the three mentioned have great products
 
#188
Wirides said:
Interesting, it appears Leupold also offers a first responder program. Lots of love for their new MK4 HD and it's not even released yet. It's another example of how saturated the market is with great options. It's a good problem to have. Back to the point of the thread, that's why Vortex needs to be careful with the pricing.
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The problem is, they are never in stock, especially any model you want.

And the MK4HD, I would steer way clear off. I heard all the same stuff until I got to play one with this last weekend in texas. We popped the turret off and lets just say that optic is going to be a HARD no. Shame too, I was planning on buying one.
 
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#190
DeathBeforeDismount said:
The problem is, they are never in stock, especially any model you want.

And the MK4HD, I would steer way clear off. I heard all the same stuff until I got to play one with this last weekend in texas. We popped the turret off and lets just say that optic is going to be a HARD no. Shame too, I was planning on buying one.
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Too bad we had high hopes for a modern Mk4
 
#192
redneckbmxer24 said:
I responded to your PM as well but the prices have absolutely dropped on both the XTR3i’s and the Pros over the last couple months. The MSRP was definitely higher on them when I looked before I ordered one in November. Now magically all of them are listing and selling for less. That doesn’t add up. Cost and MAP are both based on MSRP across the retail industry and something clearly changed but you’re here saying it didn’t.

Here’s two receipts where I purchased the same exact thing. The one for $1106 on 11/18/23 and then one for $799 on 1/27/24. Both times all those drop shippers had roughly the same pricing. Also both times the pros were different pricing, in November $18XX was the lowest you can get a pro for and now you can get them for a little over $1400 before shipping. These places all operate at a couple percent over cost, so how could have prices dropped 30% yet there’s supposedly no change in pricing at the manufacturer level?

I’m not complaining because now I think these things are priced where they should for their performance, I’m just pointing out that pricing has changed and in the opposite direction that it normally does and in the opposite direction it should be if sales are so great.
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I’d be interested to know where you got the XTRIII for $799, I’d be interested in purchasing one. Thanks
 
#195
HaydenLane said:
Out of curiosity I checked yesterday, EO was $1250 and cameraland was $1350. I know they’d each go a bit lower with a phone call, but it’s not the blowout prices I was expecting to see.
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They aren’t the places I’m talking about. I have a 5.5-30 in my cart right now at one place for $918.22 and they charge $25 shipping. Going to order one tomorrow once my 3.3-18 gets delivered as long as it’s not total trash.
 
#197
redneckbmxer24 said:
Already posted in here how to find the pricing. The 3.3-18’s are sold out but there’s still 5.5-30’s and pros cheap.
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If we want to keep getting these deals we need to start doing this stuff by PM. It's highly likely that certain manufacturers are pressuring some of the deal sites on what stores they allow listings for based on prices they offer.

Vortex is a good example of this, you won't find a single PST Gen 2 5-25 7C MRAD listed on GunDeals for less than $1099.99, but several of the common stores with the best prices there still offer them, and have them in stock, they just aren't being listed on anymore for vortex products for some reason. Those that are still listed are all towing the much higher price line, it seems like Vortex went on a pricing rampage of a wide range for 2024.
 
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#198
Not out here to start crap, but the store that I've bought most of my scopes from over the last two years (EuroOptic) raised their prices on the Gen 3 by about $475 with the mil discount.

You can still get their exclusive black for the same price before the increase.

Better shit now or get off the pot.
 
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#199
diggler1833 said:
Not out here to start crap, but the store that I've bought most of my scopes from over the last two years (EuroOptic) raised their prices on the Gen 3 by about $475 with the mil discount.

You can still get their exclusive black for the same price before the increase.

Better shit now or get off the pot.
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Ummm, yeah everyone knew mil discount is based off of msrp. Us regular non entitled poors price hasn't changed a bit.
 
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