Rifle Scopes Vortex PST 6-24 FFP MRAD vs Bushnell G2DMR 3.5-21

[falz24]

Is the Bushnell worth the $300 jump in price? It appears that the Vortex is a more well rounded scope with more features like zero stop and illumation but that the Bushnell offers a better reticle and clearer glass? Also the vortex is about 10oz lighter. The bushy is about 37oz. Is there anything else worth noting? Would really like to hear opinions from people that have experience with both. Thanks!

 

[jrob300]

I have owned both. One Viper PST 6-24 and two Bushy's... one a H59 HDMR and the other the G2 DMR. Both of the Bushy's had horrible glass. Awful chromatic aberration and seemed "dim" or dusky in their image quality. Bushnell proclaimed them "within spec" and seemed completely unwilling to get me a good scope. One was taken back (quite graciously) by Horus and the other I sold. The PST 6-24 was nearly as good optically as my 5-20 Razor's, which in my opinion, are as good of glass as I would ever need. The 6-24 PST is a bit lacking in internal elevation.

Mechanically I would give the Bushy a slight edge over the PST. This is based on nothing other than a sense or hunch rather than hard data. The 2 Bushy's just felt more "rugged".

I LOVE the G2 reticle. Expand the wind holds about 50%, patent it and license it to other scope MFG's and I would have that in every scope I own.

You asked for opinions... these are mine. But every person is different and that is why I end up buying so many scopes, because my needs and wants may not be yours.

John

 

[Marcoman]

Save yourself time, money, and aggravation by staying the F#ck away from Vortex. Yeah.. great warranty, but on crap products.

Despite some of the Bushnells shortcomings, I feel it will be a far more reliable choice in this price range.

 

[FALex]

Save yourself time, money, and aggravation by staying the F#ck away from Vortex. Yeah.. great warranty, but on crap products.

Despite some of the Bushnells shortcomings, I feel it will be a far more reliable choice in this price range.

I second that! There's a reason that warranty is "unlimited lifetime," because you're going to have to use it several times during the life (or death) of the product. I'd actually run the SSHD, smokes the Razor's in optical quality, clarity, and mechanical robustness. I fucking beat myself in the head everytime I think about how I got rid of my SS's to get Razor's. There was simply no comparison.

ETA - with a 10 mil/rev turret (SSHD or new Bushy), you're going to be hard-pressed to need a zero stop. Not to mention, the CRS shims in the PST's are not exact, leaving a few clicks up or down from your actual zero.

 

[fdkay]

Have you considered the bushnell 6-24 or the SS 5-20?

 

[65guys_steve]

I have several friends that have the Vortex PST 6-24 and in comparing it to my Bushnell HDMR H59 that I recently installed on a rifle, I have to say I'm happy with my decision. My sense is that the extra dollars you would spend on the Bushy goes into a beefier, more rugged and robust/substantial build.

 

[-Nick-]

Save yourself time, money, and aggravation by staying the F#ck away from Vortex. Yeah.. great warranty, but on crap products.

Despite some of the Bushnells shortcomings, I feel it will be a far more reliable choice in this price range.

Lol... Why am I willing to bet you've never even owned a Vortex? I as well as others have run numerous Vortex ranging from the Vipers to the Razor HDs. The quality is just as good as Bushnells and the price for what you get is awesome.

 

[-Nick-]

I second that! There's a reason that warranty is "unlimited lifetime," because you're going to have to use it several times during the life (or death) of the product. I'd actually run the SSHD, smokes the Razor's in optical quality, clarity, and mechanical robustness. I fucking beat myself in the head everytime I think about how I got rid of my SS's to get Razor's. There was simply no comparison.

ETA - with a 10 mil/rev turret (SSHD or new Bushy), you're going to be hard-pressed to need a zero stop. Not to mention, the CRS shims in the PST's are not exact, leaving a few clicks up or down from your actual zero.

First, if you think even high end scopes like S&B, USO, NF, etc don't break and never need customer service then you're not only wrong but you baby your shit and probably don't shoot much. You must've also never participated in a match and discovered you dialed past zero which happens to even good shooters. Although they're not EXACTLY back to zero they stop just beyond which if you knew anything about zero stop you'd know that's ideal in case you actually have to make a shot under 100 or the conditions change enough that you might need to readjust your zero quickly. The Razor is robust and FYI offers a 10 mil/rev turret...

 

[-Nick-]

I have several friends that have the Vortex PST 6-24 and in comparing it to my Bushnell HDMR H59 that I recently installed on a rifle, I have to say I'm happy with my decision. My sense is that the extra dollars you would spend on the Bushy goes into a beefier, more rugged and robust/substantial build.

That model Bushnell is $700-800 more than the PST. Once you get into that price range then you have to look at the Razor models with the EBR-2B reticle which are much beefier. Actually, once you get up to the $1700 you have to consider USO and NF.

 

[Marcoman]

Lol... Why am I willing to bet you've never even owned a Vortex? I as well as others have run numerous Vortex ranging from the Vipers to the Razor HDs. The quality is just as good as Bushnells and the price for what you get is awesome.

I will absolutely admit that I have never owned a Vortex product, nor will I likely own one in the future. This is not because I'm some elitist snob that thinks that they are beneath me, rather its due to the fact that I sweat blood for every dollar I make and will not buy something that I feel does not give me an honest return on my investment.

Like many others, I have learned the hard way; There is no free lunch! Especially when it comes to optics. I have seen far too many failures of some type or another to have any faith in the Vortex brand. YMMV.

 

[Captramrod01]

I second that! There's a reason that warranty is "unlimited lifetime," because you're going to have to use it several times during the life (or death) of the product. I'd actually run the SSHD, smokes the Razor's in optical quality, clarity, and mechanical robustness. I fucking beat myself in the head everytime I think about how I got rid of my SS's to get Razor's. There was simply no comparison.

ETA - with a 10 mil/rev turret (SSHD or new Bushy), you're going to be hard-pressed to need a zero stop. Not to mention, the CRS shims in the PST's are not exact, leaving a few clicks up or down from your actual zero.

Optical quality and clarity? Sure, I'll give the edge to the SS 5-20 on that. Robustness? You are out of your mind if you legitimately feel that the SS is more robust than the Razor.

Marcoman, what optics do you run?

 

[sawman556]

Marcoman, what optics do you run?

My guess, Barska.

 

[42769vette]

I will absolutely admit that I have never owned a Vortex product, nor will I likely own one in the future. This is not because I'm some elitist snob that thinks that they are beneath me, rather its due to the fact that I sweat blood for every dollar I make and will not buy something that I feel does not give me an honest return on my investment.

Like many others, I have learned the hard way; There is no free lunch! Especially when it comes to optics. I have seen far too many failures of some type or another to have any faith in the Vortex brand. YMMV.

Man its sure nice to have real experts around here that dont ever have to own a scope to become a expert about them. Youtube makes everyone a expert.

 

[Marcoman]

Man its sure nice to have real experts around here that dont ever have to own a scope to become a expert about them. Youtube makes everyone a expert.

Ask me about my S&B's and the Steiner I just bought and maybe I can help you out.

If it looks like sh!t, and smells like sh!t, you don't have to be a Plumber to know... it's probably SH!T.

 

[42769vette]

Ask me about my S&B's and the Steiner I just bought and maybe I can help you out.

If it looks like sh!t, and smells like sh!t, you don't have to be a Plumber to know... it's probably SH!T.

Being able to afford S&B doesn't make you a expert, or mean you know more than anyone else about the subject. Compared to your S&B the PST line probably does look like shit, but that doesn't mean they are not a great option for someone who would rather spend money on ammo that will actually make you a better shot, than equipment that makes you appear to be a Long range Yoda.

By the way this is not a slam on S&B at all.

 

[-Nick-]

I will absolutely admit that I have never owned a Vortex product, nor will I likely own one in the future. This is not because I'm some elitist snob that thinks that they are beneath me, rather its due to the fact that I sweat blood for every dollar I make and will not buy something that I feel does not give me an honest return on my investment.

Like many others, I have learned the hard way; There is no free lunch! Especially when it comes to optics. I have seen far too many failures of some type or another to have any faith in the Vortex brand. YMMV.

So you bought a S&B and now you're an expert on scopes, lol. I hate to burst your bubble... But even S&B's can break. You can't say you've learned the hard way about a product you've never even fucking owned.

 

[Marcoman]

Being able to afford S&B doesn't make you a expert, or mean you know more than anyone else about the subject. Compared to your S&B the PST line probably does look like shit, but that doesn't mean they are not a great option for someone who would rather spend money on ammo that will actually make you a better shot, than equipment that makes you appear to be a Long range Yoda.

By the way this is not a slam on S&B at all.

I agree with you 100%. While the way I made my point was not the most politically correct, the point still remains. I think that there are better choices out there, and if that means saving an extra month to buy something better that will last, then I think thats a better choice in the long run.

I ran Leupold Mk4's and a Nightforce NXS before getting my first FFP (USO SN3). So while no expert, I have used a large representation of whats out there.

 

[42769vette]

I agree with you 100%. While the way I made my point was not the most politically correct, the point still remains. I think that there are better choices out there, and if that means saving an extra month to buy something better that will last, then I think thats a better choice in the long run.

I ran Leupold Mk4's and a Nightforce NXS before getting my first FFP (USO SN3). So while no expert, I have used a large representation of whats out there.

Ill give you that. There are much better options on the market, but the fact is the PST series will do more than 90% of shooters will ever need, and when you compare them to anything in their price range (or the leupold MK4) they are the obvious winner.

 

[FALex]

First, if you think even high end scopes like S&B, USO, NF, etc don't break and never need customer service then you're not only wrong but you baby your shit and probably don't shoot much. You must've also never participated in a match and discovered you dialed past zero which happens to even good shooters. Although they're not EXACTLY back to zero they stop just beyond which if you knew anything about zero stop you'd know that's ideal in case you actually have to make a shot under 100 or the conditions change enough that you might need to readjust your zero quickly. The Razor is robust and FYI offers a 10 mil/rev turret...

Is that right? You assume way too much, Nick. Where in any of my responses did I indicate none of those other scopes break? It's okay, you resorted to exaggerations in your other posts too. Makes you look "right." Well, since I used to sell Vortex, NF, Leupy, et al, I have a fairly good idea about that. I never saw a NF come back, but I did see several others. It took me a long time to learn as well, don't worry. My Dad always told me that you have to pay for education.

When I spoke of the 10 mils/turn, I meant the Bushnell OP was speaking of. The two Razors I ownED have 10 mils/turn. Go see my other post in the other blog about my own personal Vortex experience.

 

[komishe]

I like the g2 a lot more than the mrad. Its a bit finer at max zoom. the only timeI've turned my illum. On is to confirm that it worked. I'm sure it would be handy for hunting In poor light though. No zero stop kinda sucks, I marked a line on my turret with a silver sharpie. Not the best if yer in a hurry, but it works for me. One thing worth noting is the Bushy is a LOT more compact than the vortex.

I like both at the pricepoints they are at. While they're not sb, they are certainly not shit. Mine get used and the dials get turned at least once or twice a week. No problems yet.............

All my glass (razor, bushy ers, nightforces too) gets bagged on by my buddy with his sb all the time. He sure Isnt getting any EXTRA hits withit lol

 

[sawman556]

Ask me about my S&B's and the Steiner I just bought and maybe I can help you out.

If it looks like sh!t, and smells like sh!t, you don't have to be a Plumber to know... it's probably SH!T.

I'm smelling shit now. We are all glad that you have the luxury of being able to spend any amount of money on optics but not everyone has that option. To tell someone that Vortex is shit in the manner you have chosen, is an insult. Fact is Vortex makes really good scopes for the money. I've owned several and they work as advertised. Another fact is you're a arrogant douche bag to come on here with your thirtysomething posts and act like you do. Your mannerism convinces me that you are from a expert and more like a wannabe.

 

[1slow01z71]

I cant help but laugh at people who read stuff on the internet and suddenly become experts. I own 5 vortex scopes (one ourchased from sawman funny enough) and I've yet to have a problem with them. For as popular as the vortex scopes are you really see very few failure reports and when you do they're always solved with outstanding customer service from Vortex.

Its always interesting to see the way peoples flawd logic works. Because they have an awesome warranty they make a crap product? Guess the car manufacturers that are giving longer warranties are making shittier products too...

 

[sawman556]

I own 5 vortex scopes (one ourchased from sawman funny enough) and I've yet to have a problem with them.

funny shit... so how you liking the 2.5-10x32mm?

 

[PKT1106]

Ask me about my S&B's and the Steiner I just bought and maybe I can help you out.

If it looks like sh!t, and smells like sh!t, you don't have to be a Plumber to know... it's probably SH!T.

So, what you're saying is that you looked at it and smelled it and said it isn't worth a damn. Have you looked through a Vortex PST and/or used one in the field?

Just remember, coal looks like shit and smells like shit, but produces diamonds under pressure.

 

[-Nick-]

Is that right? You assume way too much, Nick. Where in any of my responses did I indicate none of those other scopes break? It's okay, you resorted to exaggerations in your other posts too. Makes you look "right." Well, since I used to sell Vortex, NF, Leupy, et al, I have a fairly good idea about that. I never saw a NF come back, but I did see several others. It took me a long time to learn as well, don't worry. My Dad always told me that you have to pay for education.

When I spoke of the 10 mils/turn, I meant the Bushnell OP was speaking of. The two Razors I ownED have 10 mils/turn. Go see my other post in the other blog about my own personal Vortex experience.

Lol... I love idiots that try and resort to.talking shit about off topic posts. And speaking of assumptions... I payed to play with almost every optic listed in this thread. I like how you also had ZERO response as to backing your statements in regards to features and/or quality, but you just keep stalking threads that mention Vortex with the same Caveat but no real substance.

 

[Marcoman]

So, what you're saying is that you looked at it and smelled it and said it isn't worth a damn. Have you looked through a Vortex PST and/or used one in the field?

Just remember, coal looks like shit and smells like shit, but produces diamonds under pressure.

LOL, thats some funny .....sh!t!

Wow this went South real fast!! Apologies to all if I've offended anyone, it was not the original intention although probably a by- product. As I said I in the begining, its my opinion that there are better choices at least for my money YMMV.

As for the "wannabe" comment well.. There again we all have our opinions.

 

[sawman556]

As for the "wannabe" comment well.. There again we all have our opinions.

Just like assholes, aye???

 

[TallShot]

I've owned a Vortex 4-16 FFP.

After having my DMR for a while now.. And it's went through some rough times with zero issues, I'll take the DMR. Planning on buying another actually.

 

[s002wjh]

with modern technique to minimize the aberration in glass, any scope above certain price point should has about similar quality of glass. however for scope to be consider good, the 1st priority is superp tracking, least thats what i heard.

i heard good thing about swfa HD scope

 

[FALex]

Lol... I love idiots that try and resort to.talking shit about off topic posts. And speaking of assumptions... I payed to play with almost every optic listed in this thread. I like how you also had ZERO response as to backing your statements in regards to features and/or quality, but you just keep stalking threads that mention Vortex with the same Caveat but no real substance.

You got it. I'll keep stalking Vortex shit threads, friend. Lord knows, there's no shortage. Oh, did you see that one where the guy's PST was leaking? Nicholas, do you know what PST is an acronym for? Go ahead, make another assumption. I'm gonna go look for more Vortex threads to shit on. Love you sweetie.

 

[-Nick-]

You got it. I'll keep stalking Vortex shit threads, friend. Lord knows, there's no shortage. Oh, did you see that one where the guy's PST was leaking? Nicholas, do you know what PST is an acronym for? Go ahead, make another assumption. I'm gonna go look for more Vortex threads to shit on. Love you sweetie.

Oh sugar muffin... you don't want to start down that path with me because I never get bored and you won't win.

 

[FALex]

Oh sugar muffin... you don't want to start down that path with me because I never get bored and you won't win.

Sugar muffin? When were you paroled?

 

[-Nick-]

Sugar muffin? When were you paroled?

Right after I sold you for a cigarette...

 

[FALex]

OP - I never asked, what application is your scope going to be used for; caliber rifle? You have to think, a low magnification of 6 is not great for hunting, and for shots inside of 100. Furthermore, the need for 24 on the high end is likely unneeded. All of the shooting I have done, I usually don't go over 12-15x, out to 1200.

 

[1slow01z71]

funny shit... so how you liking the 2.5-10x32mm?

I like it a lot, a lot more clear than the x44 SFP model I had. I really liked it til I was cranking it down and ran out of elevation. Forgot my allen wrenches at the house and you had a fat shim in there haha. I was 6" high at 100 on the 300BLK AR. Good news is I ought to have plenty of elevation to shoot subs though.

 

[sawman556]

I like it a lot, a lot more clear than the x44 SFP model I had. I really liked it til I was cranking it down and ran out of elevation. Forgot my allen wrenches at the house and you had a fat shim in there haha. I was 6" high at 100 on the 300BLK AR. Good news is I ought to have plenty of elevation to shoot subs though.

Shit! I forgot to take that thing out. Sorry my friend!

 

[fenwick253]

I'm very happy with my HDMR G2. In contrast to the PST, I believe the glass, elevation travel (34mil vs 19 mil), size (13.2" vs 15.5"), and reticle have much to offer. I have shot a PST several times and while I enjoyed shooting it, I feel as though the $300 might be worth the investment.

 

[1slow01z71]

Shit! I forgot to take that thing out. Sorry my friend!

You need it? What the heck did you need such a fat shim for?

I'm very happy with my HDMR G2. In contrast to the PST, I believe the glass, elevation travel (34mil vs 19 mil), size (13.2" vs 15.5"), and reticle have much to offer. I have shot a PST several times and while I enjoyed shooting it, I feel as though the $300 might be worth the investment.

I really wish the bushy had an illuminated reticle. I know most feel its a gimmick but most of my guns make it out in the field for hunting and the illuminated reticle comes in handy for low light or shooting in shadows.

 

[NewsShooter]

Wow, guess I shouldn't have bought a Vortex 6-24, who knew it was such a shitty scope. It's amazing I've been able to place well in our local long range matches with such poor glass. Oh and mine is SFP , I'll be upgrading soon as I don't want to think so much while shooting at lower power settings. Had I gotten the Vortex FFP in the beginning I wouldn't think about changing.

 

[hk dave]

This thread has been fun to read. R O F L

 

[sawman556]

You need it? What the heck did you need such a fat shim for?

Nope, it's all yours. If you fit it correctly it makes a better zero stop then a stack of 20 thin ones. If you want to know how to fit it, PM me.

 

[grayghost]

I have a PST SFP 6x24 It's a damn good scope and the warranty includes not only a fault with the scope but any damage done by the user. I have not been shooting long range for long but my PST on my Savage 10FCP 5R will out shoot what I can do. I have seen a few post about Bushnell scopes and there lack of service. The purist on this site may be able to afford the the 4000 dollar rifle and 3000 dollar scope, but I'm on a tighter budget. The vortex PST will do anything I want it to do, so all you children can take your opinions and go home. The op asked a valid question and I hope someone gave him a valid answer with out the childish comments.

 

[KelsonAK]

The bushnell wasn't worth the extra $300 to me. I like the lighter weight of the Vortex, the quasi zero stop, and the illumination. Ok, so I never actually USE the illumination but it's PFC and I figure as we get closer to fall/winter there will be times when I want to use it. I also liked the knobs and clicks etc of the Vortex just a little better, but just barely. The little red line for the vertical adjustment is handy on the Vortex - but really not a big deal.
Saving the bucks also meant I got 3 PSTs instead of 2 Bushnells, which for the time being is what I needed. Ok, not saying I paid 600 a scope here guys - just that it made my budget possible.
I did like the eye box of the Bushnell better at the higher magnifications, and I'm gonna bet that if it was getting whacked around with sticks and stones the Bushnell might hold up a little better. Maybe.
Have had one problem out of the 3 PSTs - had one that fogged up hard. Back to santa's work shop and was in my hands within a week. But that is why I test my gear BEFORE I need to depend on it, regardless of who made it.

 

[falz24]

I have a PST SFP 6x24 It's a damn good scope and the warranty includes not only a fault with the scope but any damage done by the user. I have not been shooting long range for long but my PST on my Savage 10FCP 5R will out shoot what I can do. I have seen a few post about Bushnell scopes and there lack of service. The purist on this site may be able to afford the the 4000 dollar rifle and 3000 dollar scope, but I'm on a tighter budget. The vortex PST will do anything I want it to do, so all you children can take your opinions and go home. The op asked a valid question and I hope someone gave him a valid answer with out the childish comments.

Yeah not really sure what happened to this thread but thanks to the people that actually contributed useful info. Not really sure why people feel the need to destroy a thread with egotistical pissing matches. Fucking stupid

 

[thrusty]

lol - It did get pretty derailed. What exactly was the conclusion? Is there a Cliff Notes version?

 

[Name Enough]

Boatloads of smack talking do nothing to answer the questions posed. They just make us look like a bunch of dumb asses. If you have an opinon based on experience then be so kind as to post you experiences. There is nothing learned from the back and forth of overage teenager.
I have owned several different makers of optics and can state you get what you pay for but you may not need a Ferrari to get down the street or back and forth to work. However you may love cars and want a Ferrari just to drive it to the grocery store..

 

[-Nick-]

Boatloads of smack talking do nothing to answer the questions posed. They just make us look like a bunch of dumb asses. If you have an opinon based on experience then be so kind as to post you experiences. There is nothing learned from the back and forth of overage teenager.
I have owned several different makers of optics and can state you get what you pay for but you may not need a Ferrari to get down the street or back and forth to work. However you may love cars and want a Ferrari just to drive it to the grocery store..

And self righteous hypocrites that show up after the fact talking just as much trash are so much much better... lol

 

[LVMED]

I know the Op probably ran away after this thread went sideways but I'll still give you my opinion. I own the PST 4-16x50 and do most of my shooting in the 200-800 yard range with it and so far I have yet to be disappointed by it. The clicks are tactile and audible, it tracks well, the glass is clear and crisp, and so far it has held up to being dragged around in the desert (which is where most of my shooting is done). The only other things I can really think of are the zero stop will be a little off due to it using shims and the reticle is a little thicker than what I would ideally want at full magnification, but it doesn't overly obstruct so it is not a big deal. I feel that for any type of shooting you plan on doing, you can't go wrong with Vortex. As for the Bushnell, I have shot one with the G2 reticle and I have to say I like it much more than the EBR reticle my Vortex has (need to buy the Razor EBR2 to get something similar to the Bushnell). The turrets on the Bushnell are also very audible/ tactile, but go to 10 mils (I believe) while the Vortex only goes to 5 mils per revolution, and the glass is just as clear.

All that being said, I chose the Vortex over the Bushnell because it had everything the bushnell did but at a better price point. Either scope will do a great job, you just need to decide which one you like better and pull the trigger on it.

 

[scudzuki]

The DMR/HDMR is 5 mil/rev.
You have to spend close to $2k on the ERS (DMR 2.0) to get 10 mil/rev.

Joe

 

[NorthEastWinter]

Marcoman just trolls the forums hating Vortex. lol