Rifle Scopes Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

[TonyAngel]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

jefferson, I'm one of the minority that finds the SFP reticles more useful. Maybe it's just my eyes, but the reticle gets really hard to see when I dial down the power with a FFP reticle, and using hold overs is more difficult for me. I'm more prone to making mistakes than I am with a SFP reticle that stays the same size. I guess I'm just used to thinking in multiples. In any case, I do shoot a lot of paper and load development has gotten to be fun too, so I do like to shoot for groups often. Unless I'm mistaken, the SFP reticle is smaller at max magnification than that of the reticle of a FFP PST at max magnification.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I did just ordered the 6-24X50 with a SFP MOA reticle. I'm just hoping that I don't start kicking myself later for not having gotten another Nightforce. Oh well, if I don't like it, I'm sure that I'll be able to dump it for $600 or so pretty easily.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Yeah I guess you are.
Being more of a tactical forum here is probably why.
I'd say for target shooting a SFP is probably a good way to go.
I don't think reticle size is an issue if you can keep it inside a .22 hole at 100 yards unless you need your targets REALLY small. You should be able to get some sponsorships pretty easily if you are that good.
Good for you to be able to think in multiples with your SFP scope.
Good for me I don't have to.

 

[Scott300RUM]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Tony, in regards to the SFP reticle being smaller at max mag than the FFP, I actually asked Scott @ Vortex this about a month ago. He said they are exactly the same at max mag, so I hope that clears up that question.

 

[kskevin]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Tony, I went thru the same dilemma you are going thru and first was going with the SFP but later changed to FFP when I did the math on what the difference was really going to be.

Vortex's website shows the reticule size for the FFP and SFP models as .18MOA / .06MOA respectively (stated at max mag for SFP model). So you are correct in the FFP reticule is 3x the size of the SFP at max mag. They are identical in size at 8x and FFP is only slightly larger at 12x.

For the 6x24 MOA model, the comparison at various magnifications would be as follows (in MOA)
Mag SFP FFP
6X .24 .18
8x .18 .18
12x .12 .18
16x .09 .18
24x .06 .18

At 100yds (@24x), FFP covers 1/8" more of the target. At 400yds (@24x), FFP covers 0.75" of the target, SFP covers 0.25". Net, covers 1/8" more of the target for every 100yds of range (at 1000yd = 1.25" more tgt coverage). I personally can't shoot that good and decided the benefits of FFP outweighed the larger target coverage at max mag. I was thinking about this in context of shooting prairie dogs at 300-400yds and 0.5" of additional tgt coverage on a 2.5" wide target was tolerable and worth the additional benefits of FFP.

Just my 2cents.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

KSKevin, Thanks for posting this information. I searched the Vortex website and couldn't find it. A day or two ago, someone posted that the FFP covered .25"@100 yards at low power. Which isn't too bad. Close to what I have now. The PST is starting to look better.

Paul

 

[kskevin]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Paul - Here are the links for 6x24x50 FFP MOA reticle and the SFP MOA reticle. You can navigate to them by going to the page showing each model then select the reticle type (MOA or MRAD), then choose the "subtension detail" link on that page.

http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_viper-pst_624f1-moa_details.jpg

http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/sub_viper-pst_624s1-moa_details.jpg

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

KSKevin, thanks for confirming that. I knew that I had come across it, but couldn't remember where or how.

I got on this site because I wanted to learn more about long distance shooting. It truly is an art. Still, I don't bang a whole lot of steel and the distances at which I shoot are usually pretty limited, often being limited to 100 yards. Since I shoot for fun (it's my golf), I do try to keep things fun and challenging. When I'm limited to 100 yards, I usually shoot at stuff like paintballs or simply 1/2" pasties. When I'm feeling goofy and the bugs are out, I'll spray a target with sugar water and see if I can hit bugs, so I do shoot at small stuff. A small reticle at max mag is important to me.

What I'm really happy about is that I have developed enough that I'm not so surprised when I hit a really small target.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

KSKevin, Thanks for the links! I must say, the hide does have group of people with a lot of knowledge. I was out shooting again today. At 100 yards (paper punching), a 14x would work fine. At 200 I'd like more magnification.

Paul

 

[kskevin]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pcschwenke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KSKevin, Thanks for posting this information. I searched the Vortex website and couldn't find it. A day or two ago, someone posted that the FFP covered .25"@100 yards at low power. Which isn't too bad. Close to what I have now. The PST is starting to look better.

Paul </div></div>

Paul - regarding your statement "at low power" ..... just wanted to ensure you realized it will cover 0.18 MOA (0.188") at 100yds at low OR high power (doesn't matter with FFP). Target and reticle both grow/shrink together as you change mag with FFP.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

KSKevin,

I do realize this. Still debating whether to get an FFP or not. Wish we had a decent gun store nearby that carried both! Thanks again.

Paul

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I just got my SIII 6-24X50 yesterday and love it. At 16X it was noticably better than my SS16X in bright light, and blew it out of the water in low light. I do not have a PST to compare with. I'll try to get it side by side with a buddies nightforce this weekend, although if memory serves correct, the nightforce is still noticeably better.

 

[MuleyTime]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lennyo3034</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got my SIII 6-24X50 yesterday and love it. At 16X it was noticably better than my SS16X in bright light, and blew it out of the water in low light. I do not have a PST to compare with. I'll try to get it side by side with a buddies nightforce this weekend, although if memory serves correct, the nightforce is still noticeably better. </div></div>

That's awesome! What model did you get? I assume you are talking about the LRD or LRMD....right, because I don't believe the new models have been released.

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Correct, I got the LRD since I just shoot paper. I would have liked to have gotten the LRMOA version, but I got a great deal with this one. If the PSTs are really that good, I can always trade up later.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Lennyo3034,
Just curious if you had chance to compare and what your thoughts are about the SIII?

Paul

 

[TravisP]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I am afraid that if you dont have your pst in hand, and the new sightrons, that were supposed to be released in a couple of months, that you might not get it. I have been told that those scopes are made in Japan. With the terrible tragedy that has taken place in Japan I doubt we will be seeing them anytime soon, that being said, its just a scope, more important things going on than me getting my scope, I am praying for all of them over there. I have had a pst on order for awhile now and am still waiting. I ordered the 6x24 sfp with moa ret. I will not be shooting comp. just known ranges for now so I might cancel order and get something else. I am leaning towards a sightron now. I have heard good things about them. I know they are not a NF but just cant come up with the dough for one of those, I might be able to swing for a sightron. Any thoughts on something other than pst in same price range? What about a vortex viper? Anyone know much about them?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Are you talking about the PST being from Japan? Because they are made in the phillipenes not Japan. The Razor however is from Japan IIRC. I was looking through a Viper yesterday and I was pretty impressed for a 400 dollar scope. That said I don't know of a comparable scope to the PST that is in its price range. I also put hands on a 4-16 PST (the newer released ones) I could definately tell the difference in the turret tension on the new one compared to mine (one of the originals) it almost seemed too stiff, but maybe that's just because I'm used to mine. With any luck my second one will be here soon.

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I got out the the range today and was able to compare with a Mark 4 6.5-20. I actually liked the coloring of the image given by the Mark 4 better, but the Sightron was able to resolve more detail.

The tracking of the Sightron was absolutely fantastic. It took me exactly 2 shots to get on dead center bullseye.

I actually really liked the reticule (dot reticule), although wish it were the new LRMOA version. The turrets had a very nice feel to them, but were a little on the light side. The new LRMOA version with the "tactical" turrets should solve that problem as well.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Thanks for the feedback lennyo3034! Resolving more detail is more important to me than colors.

I was out again yesterday testing more loads. Think I found a couple with the 168 & 175 smks that my gun really likes. My current scope is having issue with resolving details. Especially out at 200 yards. Not sure what's going on. Wish I had somewhere nearby to try it out further. If I get the parallax adjusted properly, the target is blurry.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Paul

 

[TravisP]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Got an e-mail from Sightron and they told me that their factory in Japan was not hit and their folks connected to the factory are all ok. He stated that the plan is still a go with the 2011 models coming soon.

 

[SIE107]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I just put a 6-24x50 LR D on my rifle today.. shot it at 1000 yards.. zeroed the scope to the bore on a headlight of a car sitting in a parking lot here near the house, got to the range, moved the scope around till I was comphy with it in prone, put 27 mins up and took a shot, wind was comming from the left, first shot was called 4 mins low and four mins right.. so I adjusted to that call and shot an X. Nice..

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

SIE107, Did you have any issue seeing the target (or covering too much of target) at 24X? I keep trying to convince myself that the 6-24 would be a better choice but, the 8-32 is almost the same price. Any other thoughts on your new scope would be appreciated.

Paul

 

[Boomstick308]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TravisP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got an e-mail from Sightron and they told me that their factory in Japan was not hit and their folks connected to the factory are all ok. He stated that the plan is still a go with the 2011 models coming soon. </div></div>

Did he mention if the MIL turret retrofits were still a go as well?
Last I heard was that they would have a price by the end of this month.

 

[TravisP]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

He did not say about the mil turret retrofit, I only asked about the 2011 tactical scopes, his email was short and to the point, no change in plans was all he stated. I have a vortex viper on the way but if I can swing it, I would also like to get a sightron, we shall see.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Well I did it. Just ordered a Sightron SIII 8-32 with 1/8" target dot. Should be here Monday. I'll get it on my 5R ASAP and update this post. I've been debating which way to go since I started this post. The deciding factor was all the great reviews & 8-32 power. I know the 24x would be fine but, I can always turn it down. Still haven't looked through either brand but, both get great reviews. The Sightron SIII has a longer track record.

FYI, Adorama has the Vortex PST's instock, including the FFP models. Kept this to myself for a while until I decided.

Paul

 

[hacross]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

pcschwenke, I'm curious to know how the "picky" the eye relief is with this scope. Can you post something after you get it?

Cheers,

 

[EXSOCAL]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Have had both the Sightron and currently have both a Viper and Viper PST. The glass on the PST is outstanding, and the customer service is second to none. Go Vortex and dont look back. You will like any PST scope you get your hands on.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

M14_Fan, I'll let you know about I relief. The Sightron catalog has eye relief spec of 3.6"-4". If you look over their entire catalog, the stays pretty much the same for all models in the SIII line. Not sure how this stacks up to the PST.

SOCAL, One of my main reason for going Sightron is their record. You don't see many high power, F-class, or Benchrest using Vortex. This is not to say there won't be. I've read a mix bag about the PST glass and that's as far as I'm going with it. To me, glass is way more important than features. Please let me know why the Sightron glass is behind the PST? I'm curious.

Paul

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I'm very much in the same boat. I did a lot of research by searching "sightron vs." and it is most commonly compared to the Nightforce benchrest models. Some reviews say the NF glass is slightly better, some say the SIII glass is slightly better. Most reviews say you can't tell a difference unless you're looking for them.

I based my decision on previous reviews saying PST glass was the same as the standard viper glass, or that reviewers were impressed with the scope overall, but not the glass. I have yet to see a review where the PST compared favorably, or came close to NF glass. It's possible that one of the "fixes" made on PSTs were upgraded glass, in which case, it would be worth taking a look at a newer model. I would love to see a detailed review of a 6-24 PST against a 5.5-22 NXS. I really like my SIII, but am willing to go to a PST if its the same glass with all the PST features.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I hear the glass in those Swarovski scopes is pretty good. Prolly even better than a Sightron. They might not have the features to support tactical shooting but if glass quality is your first priority it shouldn't matter.

If you want to compare Vortex to a Nightforce, you might want to go with the Razor.

 

[6.5x61Super]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

.. spoke to the Horse's mouth...Ken at Vortex.

expecting my 4-16x50 SFP in 4 - 6 weeks. I ordered it from my gun dealer last Monday.

Ken said the FFP scopes are about 2 months out. All existing orders have been filled from previous backorders and replacements.

So....might as well get in line.

My gut feeling...this time next year....prices will increase as the WORD gets out on this scope....simple economics...supply vs. demand.

If I were Vortex...it would be a wise business decision to raise prices next year.

Right now...no other scope can touch the PST features at this price point.

..so..order them now fellas....before the shooting really heats up in June/July....

 

[BBsteel]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I'm gonna disagree with the above. I have a 4-16 ffp and believe I got what I paid for. Any more than that and I'll save and go Nightforce.

Now, if the price goes up just due to economics as beer does then I'll agree.

Otherwise, the PSTs are a fair deal and no more in my opinion.

 

[gprippers]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Vortex PST and they are easy to get as i put my name in for a couple more withh a few diferent vendors and ive received calls and emails galore telling me they had them. I picked up another PST+ FFP from my states distributor and he had others as well as most models in.

Vortex Vortex and Vortex! I own four US Optics, over a dozen Leupolds, down to one NF and now Im up to 6 Vortex and climbing! Guys state they have issues but between myself and 3 others that i shoot with we have a total of 15 or better and never an issue. I have also heard that if you do have an issue that they are on top of it without ANY hassles!

Im not going to bash any maker out there, but I have owned Sightron and thats in the pastense.

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GPRIPPERS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Vortex Vortex and Vortex! I own four US Optics, over a dozen Leupolds, down to one NF and now Im up to 6 Vortex and climbing! Guys state they have issues but between myself and 3 others that i shoot with we have a total of 15 or better and never an issue. </div></div>
Wow! That's encouraging...

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I got the test the Sightron against a NF NXS 8-32X56 today. Let me know if you want a write up on it. I'll keep it out of this thread since this is the PST against the Sightron. I would like to bring a PST out to the range next to the sightron some time though.

 

[pcschwenke]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

lennyo3034,

I would love to see a comparison. No one that I know of has one for me to compare myself. I've already chosen. The Sightron 1/8" target dot 8-32 will be in my hands tomorrow. If the Vortex PST went up to a comparable power, the choice may have been different. Both are respectable scopes. I'm actually relieved that I finally made a decision. Hope it was the correct one!

Paul

 

[lennyo3034]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

I just wrote up the results here:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...499#Post2445499

I think you will be happy with your choice.

 

[importsstillsuck]

Re: Vortex PST or Sightron SIII

Any idea if the new siii are going to be ffp?