Vortex Razor HDII issues

[Canpatriot]

Pretty new at this but bought a rifle for long distance shooting this spring. Have had a heck of a time with it trying to sight in. Go through boxes of ammo every time I go to range just to get it zeroed in at 100 Meters. Been suspicious since I bought it that zero is moving around. Finally had an incident today that makes me suspicious of the scope being a dud.

Took a shot at a moose after zeroing in rifle last week with new MDT rings. Didn't appear to even come close to hitting it. Went to end of a road and checked zero at 100 meters shooting at pop cans and I had to adjust up 22.4 mil radians! Rings didn't move since zeroing last week, I am baffled and lost confidence in my equipment.

What would cause this? Has this even ever happened on a level this severe to anyone else? I'm debating sending the scope back to Vortex to be looked at. I am assuming to be out by this much by the rail, the rings or the scope moving, you would see some very obvious visual signs. There is nothing to indicate that any of these are moving around. Any suggestions because I am stumped on this one, and rifle has been very accurate once zeroed in.

For reference, It is a Tikka T3X Tac A-1 rifle with factory 0 moa rail. MDT rings and the Vortex Razor HD Gen 2 scope. Ammo I have shot through it has been quite varied as it has been difficult to find, but generally I have been shooting 140-147 grain Nosler, Hornady, or Barnes. Regardless of powder differences and BC of the ammo used, 22.4 mills out should never be a possibility at 100 meters, I was thinking more along the lines of maybe 0.5 mills out.

 

[Taylorbok]

put a known good scope on. Is everything else tight?
That is pretty drastic that's for sure.

 

[Canpatriot]

put a known good scope on. Is everything else tight?
That is pretty drastic that's for sure.

I’ve only got the one, just getting into it. I need to purchase another one for another rifle so I could try that I suppose.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

22.4 mils insane. I’d verify your mounts are tight and if they are send it in to be looked at.

 

[Taylorbok]

I’ve only got the one, just getting into it. I need to purchase another one for another rifle so I could try that I suppose.

I mean if you wanna send it away go hard, just might be without a scope for a while. Once you have a few scopes and rifles it's not really an issue to send one in, you can always rob a scope off another gun or what ever but it's a PITA if you've only got one

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I had the vertical erector in a Burris XTR2 fail this year and it resulted in something like what you describe. Known sub moa gun that started shooting an increasingly lower poi that I was trying to adjust for as I originally thought it was ammo related. Check everything is tight and then shoot a group. After that you need to switch scopes to figure out if thats the problem.

You made sure to tighten down the 3 screws on each turret that lock in the adjustments right?

Was the scope new or used? Regardless, Vortex will get it fixed pretty fast. I just sent in a Razor Gen3 today to have the turrets serviced and they said they'd be able to complete the work in 5 business days.

 

[cjs88]

Heard Vortex is pretty quick, if they can't fix it or don't want to bother fixing it, you'll get a new scope. I'd say two weeks max without one depending on shipping speeds and what they want to do.

 

[1911hombre]

EL OH EL.
So..... at 100 meters, shooting at pop cans, you dialed up, and up, and up until you finally hit a pop can at 22.4 mils, huh? Then you ran home and joined Snipershide...

 

[Seader1084]

Is this still available

If so I’ll take it

 

[DownhillFromHere]

You have a good rifle and a good scope - that is, both the rifle and scope are known to be solid, reliable components. With that said, if you did indeed have to add 22.4 mils of "up" to "re-zero, something is BAD WRONG someplace, almost certainly the scope.

Search SH for "tall target test" and create some derivative of it yourself - get a large piece of cardboard and put at least nine dots on it on a 3 dot by 3 dot grid, with each dot at least five mils (18 inches @100 yards) apart vertically and 2 mils apart (7.2 inches at 100 yards) horizontally. (All this assumes a 100-yard distance)

With your rifle zeroed at 100 yards, start your test by shooting at the center dot on bottom row. Then dial up five mils to the second. Then up another five to the top. Then dial 2 mils left... and so on. Idea is to check tracking accuracy. If your scope is so broken as to require 22+ mils of adjustment from one trip to another, my guess is your target will look like it was attacked with a few rounds of #2 buckshot.

You might also have someone else of known ability shoot your rifle if you're new to the discipline. Out of nearly a dozen scopes I've bought over the last several years, I've had one "go bad," with a tracking test similar to the preceding shot by a buddy as well as myself; we both had shots spraying well away from what was dialed.

If you do end up sending it back, call Vortex to open a ticket and, if they don't offer it, ask for a prepaid shipping label so you don't have to eat that charge. Then take the ready-to-ship scope to a UPS (or whatever service they're using) drop point. DO NOT take it to a UPS store or any of the franchise outfits; if they even THINK there might be something in the box that might get welded, glued, or in any other way attached to a firearm, they won't ship it, NO MATTER what the UPS policy is.

Good luck.

 

[ALShooter]

I had the vertical erector in a Burris XTR2 fail this year and it resulted in something like what you describe. Known sub moa gun that started shooting an increasingly lower poi that I was trying to adjust for as I originally thought it was ammo related. Check everything is tight and then shoot a group. After that you need to switch scopes to figure out if thats the problem.

You made sure to tighten down the 3 screws on each turret that lock in the adjustments right?

Was the scope new or used? Regardless, Vortex will get it fixed pretty fast. I just sent in a Razor Gen3 today to have the turrets serviced and they said they'd be able to complete the work in 5 business days.

I’ll take grub screws not tightened for 50 Alex.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

I’ll take grub screws not tightened for 50 Alex.

Even that wouldn't account for a 22 MIL shift. The zero process for the RZR Gen II isn't exactly easy, probably a case of RTFM. And I wouldn't exactly zero using pop cans at 100 (or take a shot at an animal with a system that is exhibiting zeroing issues).

I always tend to speculate "user error" in about 95% of scope cases, especially when dealing with otherwise good equipment. I'd verify all fasterners are torqued correctly (action screws, scope rail, rings, etc.). Then try zeroing again, take the manual with you and follow it exactly. If you still have issues Vortex will make it right. Give their customer service a call. They'll know better than rando's on the internet.

 

[koshkin]

The scope could be completely fubar'ed, but to be that far off there would a high likelyhood of something screwy showing up in the image.
Now, it is not impossible, so it could be the scope.
Now, the fact that you need boxes and boxes of ammo to zero it every time you go to the range is just odd. Zero is not supposed to be shifting all over the place.
Something loose with the mounts can certainly do that. Similarly, if you went all bubba on the mounts and crushed the tube, that could also do that.
What base/rings are you using?
Finally, it is a somewhat far fetched thing, but if you got an unusually good deal on the scope, there are some fakes out there that are complete garbage. Vortex CS can walk you through checking that (if it is a possibility).

ILya

 

[fdkay]

I mean if you wanna send it away go hard, just might be without a scope for a while. Once you have a few scopes and rifles it's not really an issue to send one in, you can always rob a scope off another gun or what ever but it's a PITA if you've only got one

Vortex has a pretty fast turn around.

 

[Canpatriot]

I had the vertical erector in a Burris XTR2 fail this year and it resulted in something like what you describe. Known sub moa gun that started shooting an increasingly lower poi that I was trying to adjust for as I originally thought it was ammo related. Check everything is tight and then shoot a group. After that you need to switch scopes to figure out if thats the problem.

You made sure to tighten down the 3 screws on each turret that lock in the adjustments right?

Was the scope new or used? Regardless, Vortex will get it fixed pretty fast. I just sent in a Razor Gen3 today to have the turrets serviced and they said they'd be able to complete the work in 5 business days.

Interesting, thanks for sharing. Mine seems to have to constantly adjust up every time to gain a good zero again. Just this last time the amount I was out finally told me I don’t think it’s me.

3 little Allen key screws on the turrets are tight. I’ve been good about making sure not to forget them.

Brand new scope from authorized Vortex dealer. Has seemed off since day 1.

 

[Canpatriot]

EL OH EL.
So..... at 100 meters, shooting at pop cans, you dialed up, and up, and up until you finally hit a pop can at 22.4 mils, huh? Then you ran home and joined Snipershide...

Pretty much. The scope was already previously zeroed for 100 M and confirmed at 100M

 

[Canpatriot]

You have a good rifle and a good scope - that is, both the rifle and scope are known to be solid, reliable components. With that said, if you did indeed have to add 22.4 mils of "up" to "re-zero, something is BAD WRONG someplace, almost certainly the scope.

Search SH for "tall target test" and create some derivative of it yourself - get a large piece of cardboard and put at least nine dots on it on a 3 dot by 3 dot grid, with each dot at least five mils (18 inches @100 yards) apart vertically and 2 mils apart (7.2 inches at 100 yards) horizontally. (All this assumes a 100-yard distance)

With your rifle zeroed at 100 yards, start your test by shooting at the center dot on bottom row. Then dial up five mils to the second. Then up another five to the top. Then dial 2 mils left... and so on. Idea is to check tracking accuracy. If your scope is so broken as to require 22+ mils of adjustment from one trip to another, my guess is your target will look like it was attacked with a few rounds of #2 buckshot.

You might also have someone else of known ability shoot your rifle if you're new to the discipline. Out of nearly a dozen scopes I've bought over the last several years, I've had one "go bad," with a tracking test similar to the preceding shot by a buddy as well as myself; we both had shots spraying well away from what was dialed.

If you do end up sending it back, call Vortex to open a ticket and, if they don't offer it, ask for a prepaid shipping label so you don't have to eat that charge. Then take the ready-to-ship scope to a UPS (or whatever service they're using) drop point. DO NOT take it to a UPS store or any of the franchise outfits; if they even THINK there might be something in the box that might get welded, glued, or in any other way attached to a firearm, they won't ship it, NO MATTER what the UPS policy is.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice. I’ll try that test you mentioned before I send it back. I am thinking something is really really wrong with the scope but a test like that would put my mind at ease. I do want to get a less expensive scope for my other rifle so when I do that I can compare as well.

 

[Canpatriot]

Even that wouldn't account for a 22 MIL shift. The zero process for the RZR Gen II isn't exactly easy, probably a case of RTFM. And I wouldn't exactly zero using pop cans at 100 (or take a shot at an animal with a system that is exhibiting zeroing issues).

I always tend to speculate "user error" in about 95% of scope cases, especially when dealing with otherwise good equipment. I'd verify all fasterners are torqued correctly (action screws, scope rail, rings, etc.). Then try zeroing again, take the manual with you and follow it exactly. If you still have issues Vortex will make it right. Give their customer service a call. They'll know better than rando's on the internet.

Remember, my rifle was zeroed to the best of my knowledge by myself before I took a pop shot at an animal and it was done on target paper. The pop can at 100 meters was to confirm it was out of adjustment which I then found it was.

 

[Pvt.Donut]

Remember, my rifle was zeroed to the best of my knowledge by myself before I took a pop shot at an animal and it was done on target paper. The pop can at 100 meters was to confirm it was out of adjustment which I then found it was.

Makes sense, I probably came at you too hot. My bad.

Make a call to Vortex though, they have great customer service and will get you fixed up.

 

[Canpatriot]

The scope could be completely fubar'ed, but to be that far off there would a high likelyhood of something screwy showing up in the image.
Now, it is not impossible, so it could be the scope.
Now, the fact that you need boxes and boxes of ammo to zero it every time you go to the range is just odd. Zero is not supposed to be shifting all over the place.
Something loose with the mounts can certainly do that. Similarly, if you went all bubba on the mounts and crushed the tube, that could also do that.
What base/rings are you using?
Finally, it is a somewhat far fetched thing, but if you got an unusually good deal on the scope, there are some fakes out there that are complete garbage. Vortex CS can walk you through checking that (if it is a possibility).

ILya

Nothing out of ordinary showing up in the image.

I’ve had the issue of my zero changing since I bought the scope and rifle. At first I thought it was use of different ammo. Everything I was using was 140 Grain 6.5 creed but due to shortages in my area I haven’t been able to buy the same ammo every time. It became suspicious when numbers weren’t adding up when I would zero using Nosler match ammo, then have to dial up to get a new zero on Barnes match, then still dial up again to go back to the same nosler ammo.

I don’t think I crushed the tube. The first rings I had were mounted by a gun shop. The MDT’s I recently bought I did myself. For some reason when I first got the scope, I had to progressively dial right the farther out I got to hit a target with no wind. I was about .5 mill at 500 meters. When I mounted it the second time it didn’t seem to have that drift, I always just assumed it was the old rings I had not sitting in-line.

I definitely didn’t get a deal on the scope. It was from a Vortex authorized dealer and I didn’t get any discount from the MRSP listed on line.

 

[ACard]

Vortex is very fst, call them and they will likely issue you a mailing label as well

 

[Hecouldgoalltheway]

Well, there's always this.

You're welcome

 

[koshkin]

Nothing out of ordinary showing up in the image.

I’ve had the issue of my zero changing since I bought the scope and rifle. At first I thought it was use of different ammo. Everything I was using was 140 Grain 6.5 creed but due to shortages in my area I haven’t been able to buy the same ammo every time. It became suspicious when numbers weren’t adding up when I would zero using Nosler match ammo, then have to dial up to get a new zero on Barnes match, then still dial up again to go back to the same nosler ammo.

I don’t think I crushed the tube. The first rings I had were mounted by a gun shop. The MDT’s I recently bought I did myself. For some reason when I first got the scope, I had to progressively dial right the farther out I got to hit a target with no wind. I was about .5 mill at 500 meters. When I mounted it the second time it didn’t seem to have that drift, I always just assumed it was the old rings I had not sitting in-line.

I definitely didn’t get a deal on the scope. It was from a Vortex authorized dealer and I didn’t get any discount from the MRSP listed on line.

"Mounted by the gun shop", nine out of ten times means they screwed it up. Still, it is worth your while to send it to Vortex. They will put the scope on the collimator and check to see if everything works properly.

If you are anywhere near me, I can put it on a different gun and take a look.

ILya

 

[srt-4_uk]

It was from a Vortex authorized dealer and I didn’t get any discount from the MRSP listed on line.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Canpatriot]

"Mounted by the gun shop", nine out of ten times means they screwed it up. Still, it is worth your while to send it to Vortex. They will put the scope on the collimator and check to see if everything works properly.

If you are anywhere near me, I can put it on a different gun and take a look.

ILya

I’m in Alberta at the moment. It be worth looking at if you were any where close. Thanks by the way

 

[Krazy_jim]

I’m in Alberta at the moment. It be worth looking at if you were any where close. Thanks by the way

Not too many people in Alberta.

 

[koshkin]

I’m in Alberta at the moment. It be worth looking at if you were any where close. Thanks by the way

I am very far away. Talk to Vortex.

ILya

 

[Cutout]

My first thought was to check your mounting hardware and torque specs, but I’m concerned with how much adjustment you’re making at 100 meters. Your optic only has about 33 mils of overall elevation adjustment. If you’ve come up 22 mils and you aren’t holding zero, I’d be concerned that you may have outrun your travel and could potentially have some sort of internal damage. Did you run into any resistance while making those adjustments? This might be worth calling Vortex about. They may want to have a tech take a look at your optic.

 

[FALex]

I'm just glad you took a shot at an extremely large animal with a system that could not maintain a zero!

 

[Krazy_jim]

I'm just glad you took a shot at an extremely large animal with a system that could not maintain a zero!

Be surprised how many people don’t know at which range their rifle is zeroed for, at least up here.

 

[moosemeat]

Same for most hunters here. Or they have a "Buddy zeroed it".

 

[FALex]

Be surprised how many people don’t know at which range their rifle is zeroed for, at least up here.

About 8 years ago, I was hunting with the 13yr-old son of one of my friend's. Kid had a doe tag. Kid was running a Rem 700 in .243. Before we left camp, I asked my buddy, "This rifle has been zeroed, right?" He said, "Yeah. I boresighted it," which I replied, "That' a 'no.'" I then informed him on some of the nuances of boresighting vs. zeroing, etc...

Fast forward about 3 hours. We scare a group of does up to the other side of a hill facing us. I lazed them at 500 yards. I asked the kid if he wanted to take a shot at one. He looked down at his rifle and started shaking his head in the "negative." I spun the dope for 500 into my JP LRP-07 in .260, and laid down on all fours so he could use my back as a rest. To those who are not in the know, this rifle system looks particularly menacing...now imagine being a 13yr old boy. LOL!!

I told him to just place the crosshair on the chest of whichever one he wanted to shoot and let the rifle do the work. He asked me, "Is there a lot of kick?" I said, "There is kick, but it'll be less than the rifle you're holding." I could feel the kid and rifle shaking on my back as he's trying to obtain his POA. Just as I began muttering the words, "Don't shoot until you relax," the rifle went off. I looked up to see all of the does scurrying up the hillside. They stopped again, this time at 555. I added a couple clicks, and said, "See, it's not bad at all, right?"

This time, the kid gets on it, and the entire world stopped. No shaking, dead still. The rifle went off. As the kid is trying to say, "I think I hit it," one of the does falls to the ground, so he interrupted himself, and said, "It's dead." Kid ended up shooting the doe right through the heart. Dropped it DRT. His dad, who had heard the shot, made his way over to us as we were dressing it up. The kid told his dad how he shot it "At almost 600 yards!!" The dad wouldn't believe it, so it was good that we forgot the two pieces of brass on the opposite hill. We were able to show him exactly where he shot from. Dad was incredulous.

Anyhow, I love that story, but I use it as a prime example of how boresighting doesn't mean diddily shit other than you will likely hit the target you're aiming at. At shorter distances, it MIGHT be okay, but as soon as you start adding some distance, the hit will just not be POA. On an animal, that can be catastrophic, creating an unduly long, harsh death or maiming situation.

 

[Canpatriot]

Update:

Sent the scope into Vortex couple weeks ago, they got back to me with what they repaired and did a function test on the scope. Said it should be good now. Does this make sense to anyone that this would cause as big an issue as I was having? They said the objective ring was dented and the objective cell was damaged. They replaced the objective cell and ring. This make sense to anyone? TIA.