Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper PST Gen II vs cheaper options?

[awcmon]

I've been looking to get into long range stuff for a while and finally bought a Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'd like to shoot PRS type matches or other competitions, but for now I just want to get acquainted with long range shooting. My goal is to reliably hit torso-sized targets at 1000 yards. I typically always shoot in bright daylight, at least right now.

I did a lot of reading and eventually picked the Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 in MIL. In general, I wanted a FFP scope with a MIL reticle and MIL turrets, and that was on sale and fit the bill. I just got it today and compared it to my Burris Timberline and honestly the glass felt just about as clear on both scopes. I used both at ~130 yards in bright daylight. When the sun goes down, I'll probably try it again and see if the Viper is clearer in low light. Anyways, I was very surprised by the results so far. The Viper is better in almost every other way though by far. Turrets, FFP, reticle, FOV, erector travel, side focus, more magnification range, etc.

I do not know too much about scopes, so I guess my question is if I should be concerned with the glass clarity. I got my Viper for $760 and my Timberline for $270 so I would have expected the Viper to be considerably more clear rather than seemingly equal.

I also have a question about cheaper scopes. The Timberline isn't really suited for long range at all it seems, so it's out of the question. However, I was previously considering two other scopes: the SWFA SS 10x, and the Diamondback Tactical 6-24x.

I heard the SWFA SS 10x had great glass quality and great turrets, so it seems like, compared to the Viper, I only really lose magnification. I paid about $500 more for the Viper than I did my SWFA (it was on sale for $250 this past memorial day, but it's still shipping), so I am not sure if it was worth it or not. How important is the extra range of magnification, and what else is there that the Viper has that the SWFA SS doesn't that makes it cost 3 times as much?

I was also considering a Diamondback Tactical a while back. It seems to have comparable features to the Viper at first glance, but I'm not so sure. What makes a Viper cost twice as much as a Diamondback? I don't really care for the illumination since where I live it's constantly bright and I don't really shoot at dawn/dusk/night. My guess is that the turrets/tracking are better. Is that true? Is there anything else?

 

[IanHusaberg]

I’ve had the pst2 5-25. Sold it. Have a diamond back 4-16 ffp now. If you know you’ll be buying a stop gap now and a better one later. I think the DB glass is good for the money. I’m thinking about buying the 6-24 version as well. I’m a fan of the erb-2c. I like dot centers even more now. Like the sig dev-L and amg & razor erb-7b.

If I were you, i’d Look at close out Sig Sauer tango 6 3-18 or 4-24 with dev-L. Own both of those as well, awesome!!!
Or athlon ares etr 5-30x50
Toric tract 4-20 prs reticle

Negative of the Vortex DB line is no locking turrets or zero stop. Limited interanal travel 80 moa on the 4-16, 60 on the 6-24?No rev indicator....:-(

 

[BA1412]

I've been looking to get into long range stuff for a while and finally bought a Tikka T3X CTR in 6.5 Creedmoor. I'd like to shoot PRS type matches or other competitions, but for now I just want to get acquainted with long range shooting. My goal is to reliably hit torso-sized targets at 1000 yards. I typically always shoot in bright daylight, at least right now.

I did a lot of reading and eventually picked the Viper PST Gen II 5-25x50 in MIL. In general, I wanted a FFP scope with a MIL reticle and MIL turrets, and that was on sale and fit the bill. I just got it today and compared it to my Burris Timberline and honestly the glass felt just about as clear on both scopes. I used both at ~130 yards in bright daylight. When the sun goes down, I'll probably try it again and see if the Viper is clearer in low light. Anyways, I was very surprised by the results so far. The Viper is better in almost every other way though by far. Turrets, FFP, reticle, FOV, erector travel, side focus, more magnification range, etc.

I do not know too much about scopes, so I guess my question is if I should be concerned with the glass clarity. I got my Viper for $760 and my Timberline for $270 so I would have expected the Viper to be considerably more clear rather than seemingly equal.

I also have a question about cheaper scopes. The Timberline isn't really suited for long range at all it seems, so it's out of the question. However, I was previously considering two other scopes: the SWFA SS 10x, and the Diamondback Tactical 6-24x.

I heard the SWFA SS 10x had great glass quality and great turrets, so it seems like, compared to the Viper, I only really lose magnification. I paid about $500 more for the Viper than I did my SWFA (it was on sale for $250 this past memorial day, but it's still shipping), so I am not sure if it was worth it or not. How important is the extra range of magnification, and what else is there that the Viper has that the SWFA SS doesn't that makes it cost 3 times as much?

I was also considering a Diamondback Tactical a while back. It seems to have comparable features to the Viper at first glance, but I'm not so sure. What makes a Viper cost twice as much as a Diamondback? I don't really care for the illumination since where I live it's constantly bright and I don't really shoot at dawn/dusk/night. My guess is that the turrets/tracking are better. Is that true? Is there anything else?

I'm gonna get flamesprayed like a boss for this but here goes:

I would take a stroooong look at the Leupold LRP's in that price range...
Front focal, mil or moa, great glass, zero stop, rev indicator and they track $$$$$...

 

[IanHusaberg]

I’ve been looking at the LRP line as well. For several light weight hunting builds. I did hear that tracking wasn’t spot on. Jury’s still on wether i’ll Dip my toes yet?

 

[BA1412]

I live in Oregon so leupold is everywhere here. Every one I’ve seen, to include my two, seem to track spot on. The clicks aren’t as crazy tactile as some others but I can tell easily when I turn them that they are clicking. To me clicks is a weird metric to measure by as it isn’t really performance related. If it was a big deal to have crazy clicks, I’d have bought a mark 5 instead of 2 LRPs

 

[Diver160651]

Get the genII vipers and go kick ass..

I have a lot of high $ scopes, but I run one on a Vudoo for NRL22 matches, was never out of the top spot in my club... I think always over 400

The scope will not hold you back —- practice, practice- I think the PST is the minimum entry into good scopes

 

[Lkwoolsey]

I likethe pst gen 2. Yu end up paying a lot more for the quality of glass, and you wont notice that til you get in dim/ overcast/ crapy weather conditions. You'll have a hard time seeing a difference in glass quality, generally speaking, in bright daylight.

 

[beetroot]

You've said it yourself, turrets, reticle, FOV, tracking, mag range etc are all what make the PST Gen 2 a great scope.

The diamond back glass will not even be close to that of the PST, neither will the turret feel and likely tracking.
The DB tactical doesn't have a zero stop and the FOV on the PST is far far better.

The PST Gen 2 offers some of the best value for money in rifle scopes at this point in time.
Compare it to what was available for under $1000 a few years ago and the value for money is incredible.
The PST Gen 2 (and a few other similar priced offerings) should not leave you wanting, yes there are better scopes out there but under 99.9% of shooting conditions there should not be a shot you cannot take or miss that you can attribute to the scope.

Stick with your PST, it will do the job out to 1000yards easily and will also do you well for PRS.
In time you will learn what attributes make or break a rifle scope and you will appreciate the PST (and better scopes) for what they bring to the table. You will likely regret going for a lesser scope, unless you are doing so to save money towards something better in the future.

 

[padom]

I sold my Gen2 PST 4 days after receiving it. The Athlon Ares ETR is the best scope in that price range hands down.

 

[matchman]

Welcome to the world of tactical scopes. My experience exactly.
$650 for a tube and twisty knobs with $100 glass.
My experience this far if you need those features PST 2 is your best bang for the buck.
I just sent back a crap ares BTR scope.

 

[Dustysa4]

I'm no expert, but my opinion is that comparing glass can be elusive, especially at this price point. There are so many smaller things that compile to make "good glass." At this price, it's the ole' conundrum of needing 4 things, but only being able to pick 3.

I too have the PST G2 5-25x50, and comparing the glass (only glass) to my SS 3-15x42, I see two scopes that compromised in different areas of glass quality. Overall, I prefer the viewing experience behind the SWFA 3-15x42 because it has better color contrast, and a more forgiving eyebox. Those two things are important TO ME. However, the PST G2 seems to have less color separation (still has some) and a teeny-tiny tick better resolving power (sharpness). But the color contrast is lacking, the eyebox at max magnification is not fun, and there is an annoying glare issue on the ocular lens. Overall, it's not bad, but it's just not as "friendly" to look through as my SS 3-15x42. Each brand chose what they thought would be the best use of money in the glass department. And I'm sure there are people on here that would prefer to be behind the Vortex.

Also, you have to consider what else you're getting. Both of these scopes come from companies that stand behind their products. Potential replacements are rolled into the price. Both of them have precision adjustment mechanisms. Both of them have a 5 ratio magnification, which compromises a lot of the viewing experience at the high end. Both have precision reticles. To get all this AND to have no-compromise glass, you're moving from a hobby price bracket to an obsession price bracket.

I wish I could comment on the fixed power SWFA scopes. I do have a Weaver T36, which is a fixed 36x40. For an old school, cheapass benchrest scope, the Weaver T36 blew my socks off. The resolution is so much better than what I was expecting. It's much better than the Vortex and the SWFA scopes mentioned at their max magnification. The eyebox sucks and there is noticeable color separation, but you get the point...4 things, pick 3. Or pony up the big bucks to have it all.

 

[wade2big]

I sold my Gen2 PST 4 days after receiving it. The Athlon Ares ETR is the best scope in that price range hands down.

Except the gen 2 pst scopes are $700 scopes. The $1000 PST days are gone. The ares are over a $1000. That is a substantial 50% price increase.

 

[padom]

Except the gen 2 pst scopes are $700 scopes. The $1000 PST days are gone. The ares are over a $1000. That is a substantial 50% price increase.

MSRP is virtually the same for these 2 optics in question. They are far from 50% price difference. Where you can get PST Gen2 deals you can also get Ares ETR deals.....Talk to Camerland...

 

[wade2big]

MSRP is virtually the same for these 2 optics in question. They are far from 50% price difference. Where you can get PST Gen2 deals you can also get Ares ETR deals.....Talk to Camerland...

I haven’t shopped for the Ares ETR so I will take your word for it. The Viper PST deals are had without making a phone call. Midway sold them for months at $675. Europtic has been selling them for $699 for a long while now. MSRP means nothing.

If the Ares ETR can be bought near that price then I may have to get one to try. Thats what I do. Buy and try and then sell and move on. I like to play with everything. So I do.

 

[padom]

I haven’t shopped for the Ares ETR so I will take your word for it. The Viper PST deals are had without making a phone call. Midway sold them for months at $675. Europtic has been selling them for $699 for a long while now. MSRP means nothing.

If the Ares ETR can be bought near that price then I may have to get one to try. Thats what I do. Buy and try and then sell and move on. I like to play with everything. So I do.

For not having to do any searching or calling I just checked 10 places and all were $899. So you may have snagged some sale but that price is not the norm as you suggest for the Gen2 PST 5-25... or the price from our supporting vendors

 

[littlepod]

For not having to do any searching or calling I just checked 10 places and all were $899. So you may have snagged some sale but that price is not the norm as you suggest for the Gen2 PST 5-25... or the price from our supporting vendors

EuroOptic has been clearing out Vortex scopes this past week, PST II 5-25 for $699, Razor II 4.5-27 for $1800.

Cheapest Ares ETR I've seen is like $950. (I still went with the Ares ETR though)

 

[awcmon]

Thanks for the help guys. I will stick with the PST 2 since I already have it. I got mine for $700, so that's the price I'm judging it at. It's more than good enough for my use, I was just wondering if I could spring for something cheaper and still have it be almost as good, but it sounds like I'd have to make too many sacrifices going for a Diamondback Tactical or something that I should just stick to what I have.

 

[jorgemac]

Midas TAC 6-24x50 for $630-670 is another cheap option to PST Gen 2. I haven't tried it, but I have read comments that it has better glass and better turrets than the pst Gen II.
It would be good to hear opinions from those who have both.

 

[littlepod]

From the store, they mentioned that the turrets are the same as the Ares ETR, which are pretty nice turrets. Glass wise I heard it's comparable if not even a little sharper than the Ares BTR.

 

[sako17]

I have a pst gen 2 5-25 ffp on a 6.5 creed with about 600 rounds on it. Its a hunting/long range target rifle and spends alot of time getting “dialed”. Tracking has always been dead on. No complains.