I am looking for decent quality scope and I've read some good things about the Vortex Viper and it has a pretty reasonable price tag. Are they as good as I've read about, and how do they compare to some of the higher priced scopes. Any advise and suggestions will be appreciated, Thanks.
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Rifle Scopes Vortex Viper
- Thread starter rtimfox
- Start date
Re: Vortex Viper
The Vortex Viper scopes are really nice. My very first experience with one was when a friend of mine asked me to shoot his rifle, because there just had to be something wrong with it. He wasn't shooting for crap that day.
Anyway, when I hunkered down behind the scope and looked through it, I had to pause, back off and take a look at the brand. My friend is somewhat....frugal, for lack of a better word, and it surprised me that he had a scope that was that nice. It turned out to be the 20 something power Viper.
Now, I'm not going to say that it was a nice as a Nightforce, because it isn't; but it's certainly as nice as any Bushnell Elite 4200 or the like that I've shot with. I realize that this phrase is getting over used these days, but the Vortex is a great bang for the buck. It lacks things like an etched reticle or super duper lens coatings but the adjustments are positive and it tracks very well. I really don't think there's a better $400 scope out there that I've seen. Of course, I haven't seen everything, but I've owned a lot and shot a bunch of them. If I hadn't made the move to the $1.5K plus scopes, I'd probably be shooting a Vortex Viper.
I will, however, say that I really don't care for the rest of the Vortex line.
The Vortex Viper scopes are really nice. My very first experience with one was when a friend of mine asked me to shoot his rifle, because there just had to be something wrong with it. He wasn't shooting for crap that day.
Anyway, when I hunkered down behind the scope and looked through it, I had to pause, back off and take a look at the brand. My friend is somewhat....frugal, for lack of a better word, and it surprised me that he had a scope that was that nice. It turned out to be the 20 something power Viper.
Now, I'm not going to say that it was a nice as a Nightforce, because it isn't; but it's certainly as nice as any Bushnell Elite 4200 or the like that I've shot with. I realize that this phrase is getting over used these days, but the Vortex is a great bang for the buck. It lacks things like an etched reticle or super duper lens coatings but the adjustments are positive and it tracks very well. I really don't think there's a better $400 scope out there that I've seen. Of course, I haven't seen everything, but I've owned a lot and shot a bunch of them. If I hadn't made the move to the $1.5K plus scopes, I'd probably be shooting a Vortex Viper.
I will, however, say that I really don't care for the rest of the Vortex line.
Re: Vortex Viper
I think you should search the top weapon builders. Start with the ten most popular and go from there. See what they put on the weapons that keep them in business, their bread and butter.
I would not rule out trying a new piece of equipment. However, I don't hear Leupold, Night Force or any one else claiming to be as good as a Vortex. You mentioned cost. If you can only afford one scope, I would lean towards the one that has stood the test of time, one that the top gun builders routinely place on their best guns as a standard piece of equipment.
Until Vortex becomes a standard issue or an up grade for those best builders, I would save my money until I can get one that is.
I think you should search the top weapon builders. Start with the ten most popular and go from there. See what they put on the weapons that keep them in business, their bread and butter.
I would not rule out trying a new piece of equipment. However, I don't hear Leupold, Night Force or any one else claiming to be as good as a Vortex. You mentioned cost. If you can only afford one scope, I would lean towards the one that has stood the test of time, one that the top gun builders routinely place on their best guns as a standard piece of equipment.
Until Vortex becomes a standard issue or an up grade for those best builders, I would save my money until I can get one that is.
Re: Vortex Viper
I have a lot of NF scopes and, a Lupys and a PST on order and I'm debating on buying a Viper. I really like them for the price!
$400 is super cheap and the 6-20 model in 44/50 has great glass for the price. The only thing I don't like is the wire cross-hairs.
I have a lot of NF scopes and, a Lupys and a PST on order and I'm debating on buying a Viper. I really like them for the price!
$400 is super cheap and the 6-20 model in 44/50 has great glass for the price. The only thing I don't like is the wire cross-hairs.
Re: Vortex Viper
What are you planning to do with it? Occasional shooting, or really serious? If you decide to trade up later. Trading up can be costly, especially if you are trying to trade something not readily familiar. Trading up or down with a top brand, well known item, is always easier than the reverse.
If you think your final destination is going to be serious precision shooting, I suggest going with one of the industry standards that all others strive to be like.
What are you planning to do with it? Occasional shooting, or really serious? If you decide to trade up later. Trading up can be costly, especially if you are trying to trade something not readily familiar. Trading up or down with a top brand, well known item, is always easier than the reverse.
If you think your final destination is going to be serious precision shooting, I suggest going with one of the industry standards that all others strive to be like.
Re: Vortex Viper
Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price.
Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price.
Re: Vortex Viper
Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit.
Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit.
Re: Vortex Viper
Ive got one on my Remington.
The scope is great, what little time ive spent behind it (stupid remington)
Anyways, the glass is clear and crisp. But like others said, at 16x+ it begins to be critical to maintain perfect eye relief. Great scope for the price, for those of us who cant justify/afford 1k+ on a scope
Ive got one on my Remington.
The scope is great, what little time ive spent behind it (stupid remington)
Anyways, the glass is clear and crisp. But like others said, at 16x+ it begins to be critical to maintain perfect eye relief. Great scope for the price, for those of us who cant justify/afford 1k+ on a scope
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit. </div></div>
two different scopes, one is the 'viper' for $400 and the other is a 'viper PST' for $800-900ish.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit. </div></div>
two different scopes, one is the 'viper' for $400 and the other is a 'viper PST' for $800-900ish.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what?
Re: Vortex Viper
I actually had a viper 4-12x40mm for sale here. I sold it but the deal fell through, and now I'm just going to keep it
I kept tossing back and forth about relisting it. I don't need it but it's a hard scope to part with for the money. It'll be perfect for a lightweight mountain rifle, so I'll just wait and put it on when I get a new rifle. Adjustments track very well and the clarity is very good for the money spent.
The viper pst is just hitting the streets now with a lot of good things being said about them. Time will tell the story, but vortex has already shown that they listen to their customers and take the necessary actions needed to make things right.
I actually had a viper 4-12x40mm for sale here. I sold it but the deal fell through, and now I'm just going to keep it
The viper pst is just hitting the streets now with a lot of good things being said about them. Time will tell the story, but vortex has already shown that they listen to their customers and take the necessary actions needed to make things right.
Re: Vortex Viper
I have been reading many of the Vortex comments throughout the forums. Most every owner shares a common view. Which is "Good for the money".
If I am looking to "get serious" the common factor I want to hear is Great Scope, durable, accurate, dependable, best, etc…..
Not good for the money, iffy at 16x, a little eye relief problem here and there, posted a couple times and couldn’t sell it.
If I told my wife to stop by Gander Mountain and grab me a scope, this is what she would come home with. They look just like the others, and they were a couple hundred dollars cheaper, (even though that doesn’t work with women’s clothes from Wal-Mart)and the high school kid behind the counter said it was just as good.
Again, I suggest you search for the weapon builder who sets one on top of his bread and butter. The best builders know that a weapon system is made up of various components. Each component must support the other. It is like a chain, and only as strong as the weakest link.
The top weapon builders do not make the optics or many other components. Based on years of experience, trial, error and success, they tend to purchase the best for their systems.
I have been reading many of the Vortex comments throughout the forums. Most every owner shares a common view. Which is "Good for the money".
If I am looking to "get serious" the common factor I want to hear is Great Scope, durable, accurate, dependable, best, etc…..
Not good for the money, iffy at 16x, a little eye relief problem here and there, posted a couple times and couldn’t sell it.
If I told my wife to stop by Gander Mountain and grab me a scope, this is what she would come home with. They look just like the others, and they were a couple hundred dollars cheaper, (even though that doesn’t work with women’s clothes from Wal-Mart)and the high school kid behind the counter said it was just as good.
Again, I suggest you search for the weapon builder who sets one on top of his bread and butter. The best builders know that a weapon system is made up of various components. Each component must support the other. It is like a chain, and only as strong as the weakest link.
The top weapon builders do not make the optics or many other components. Based on years of experience, trial, error and success, they tend to purchase the best for their systems.
Re: Vortex Viper
Just to clear the air, If you were referring to my post about selling my viper, I didnt keep it because I couldn't sell it. I had several people wanting to buy it. The initial buyer backed out due to finances, and I chose not to relist the scope because i Did like it and found a use for it. Previously it was just sitting in my safe, not doing anything because I didn't have a rifle for it.
Anyway, I do agree that if you are going to be serious in your shooting and want the "best" choose what is proven and used by those who require nothing less. However, That quality has a price tag associated with it and rightly so.
Vortex is the new kid on the block with a wider target audience than say USO, s&b, premier, nightforce etc. Their mid level scopes are not even going to compare. They're not even on the same playing field.
The viper compared to the scopes in their price range compares very well if not better with the scopes that i have seen and spent some time behind. This is just an opinion just like everything else. Is it a perfect scope, absolutely not. I wouldnt expect a "perfect scope" in the 300- 400 dollar price range. I'm talking non pst version vipers in this instance. At least for me, when I say "very good for the money spent" means I was surprised that the quality was more than I expected for what I paid for it
Again I speak only for myself and not for anyone else. I'm not an acclaimed optics expert by any means, just offering my opinion.
Just to clear the air, If you were referring to my post about selling my viper, I didnt keep it because I couldn't sell it. I had several people wanting to buy it. The initial buyer backed out due to finances, and I chose not to relist the scope because i Did like it and found a use for it. Previously it was just sitting in my safe, not doing anything because I didn't have a rifle for it.
Anyway, I do agree that if you are going to be serious in your shooting and want the "best" choose what is proven and used by those who require nothing less. However, That quality has a price tag associated with it and rightly so.
Vortex is the new kid on the block with a wider target audience than say USO, s&b, premier, nightforce etc. Their mid level scopes are not even going to compare. They're not even on the same playing field.
The viper compared to the scopes in their price range compares very well if not better with the scopes that i have seen and spent some time behind. This is just an opinion just like everything else. Is it a perfect scope, absolutely not. I wouldnt expect a "perfect scope" in the 300- 400 dollar price range. I'm talking non pst version vipers in this instance. At least for me, when I say "very good for the money spent" means I was surprised that the quality was more than I expected for what I paid for it
Again I speak only for myself and not for anyone else. I'm not an acclaimed optics expert by any means, just offering my opinion.
Re: Vortex Viper
Sorry, but I have been reading quite a few comments and that is why I asked his intentions. It sounds like it may be an up and coming scope. Many hunters and occasional shooters seem to be well satified. However, the same can be said for Tasco, Bushnell, Simons, etc.... That is why I asked what was his shooting intentions? He said he planned to "get serious".
I am just leary of "Good for the Money" I have hunting friends that cannont be convinced that there is any difference between a Tasco and a Night Force, or a Rossi and a Kimber. They are hunters, they hunt in the woods, hitting a deer at 50 yards is what they need. To them, any more is a waist. No one will ever convince them otherwise.
Many people that I know are reluctant to purchase a used scope (even from a dealer) unless it is a really good deal. Even the scopes with unlimitied lifetime warranties, often take a beating on re-sale. The exeption may be extreme upper end scopes.
If you are going to get serious, I suggest you learn from those that are in the business of being serious. If not a gun safe will look like my tackle box. A few really work, the rest I just wash off every once in a while in the river.
Sorry, but I have been reading quite a few comments and that is why I asked his intentions. It sounds like it may be an up and coming scope. Many hunters and occasional shooters seem to be well satified. However, the same can be said for Tasco, Bushnell, Simons, etc.... That is why I asked what was his shooting intentions? He said he planned to "get serious".
I am just leary of "Good for the Money" I have hunting friends that cannont be convinced that there is any difference between a Tasco and a Night Force, or a Rossi and a Kimber. They are hunters, they hunt in the woods, hitting a deer at 50 yards is what they need. To them, any more is a waist. No one will ever convince them otherwise.
Many people that I know are reluctant to purchase a used scope (even from a dealer) unless it is a really good deal. Even the scopes with unlimitied lifetime warranties, often take a beating on re-sale. The exeption may be extreme upper end scopes.
If you are going to get serious, I suggest you learn from those that are in the business of being serious. If not a gun safe will look like my tackle box. A few really work, the rest I just wash off every once in a while in the river.
Re: Vortex Viper
No apology necessary. Your thought process is a good one and I think you give sound advice in pointing shooters who are interested in long range work or a higher level of marksmanship to choose optics that are suited for the job. Quality that is durable, repeatable and trustworthy comes with a price but also with time.
Vortex seems to be on their way, but again the jury is still out for many. You never know, a few more years down the line and their mid priced options may then become suddenly more expensive
then again they may simply remain the new kid still trying.... Time will tell the story.
No apology necessary. Your thought process is a good one and I think you give sound advice in pointing shooters who are interested in long range work or a higher level of marksmanship to choose optics that are suited for the job. Quality that is durable, repeatable and trustworthy comes with a price but also with time.
Vortex seems to be on their way, but again the jury is still out for many. You never know, a few more years down the line and their mid priced options may then become suddenly more expensive
Re: Vortex Viper
After reading some reviews I really like the Viper PST but there seems to be a few issues that some of the "better" scopes might not have like the turrets being a little too sensitive to be uncovered. The same review stated that the retilce was canted 3% but went on to say that SOME of the higher end scopes have the same issue. Is that true.
After reading some reviews I really like the Viper PST but there seems to be a few issues that some of the "better" scopes might not have like the turrets being a little too sensitive to be uncovered. The same review stated that the retilce was canted 3% but went on to say that SOME of the higher end scopes have the same issue. Is that true.
Re: Vortex Viper
It sounds like you have already sold yourself a Vortex or seaching for someone to say buy it. You are wanting someone to talk you into it more than out of it. My preferences is to learn from others, so let us know how it works for you.
It sounds like you have already sold yourself a Vortex or seaching for someone to say buy it. You are wanting someone to talk you into it more than out of it. My preferences is to learn from others, so let us know how it works for you.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what? </div></div>
Black tunnel is the perfect way to describe it. Starting between 15 and 16x, its has a tunneling effect which worsens as the power goes up. Eye relief shrinks and becomes critical, meaning you have to be in the <span style="font-style: italic">perfect</span> position to avoid seeing the edges on the scope, if that makes sense. I have no real experience with high end scopes, other than peering through other shooters NF and Premier while at the range, so maybe thats normal to some extent.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what? </div></div>
Black tunnel is the perfect way to describe it. Starting between 15 and 16x, its has a tunneling effect which worsens as the power goes up. Eye relief shrinks and becomes critical, meaning you have to be in the <span style="font-style: italic">perfect</span> position to avoid seeing the edges on the scope, if that makes sense. I have no real experience with high end scopes, other than peering through other shooters NF and Premier while at the range, so maybe thats normal to some extent.
Re: Vortex Viper
No..I'm not sold on anything. I just thought someone may have had first hand field experience with this scope. I dont mean sighting it in and putting back in the closet, and I was just wondering if any of higher end scopes have issues like the Viper PST. I'm using that scope to compare with others because of the price. Sure there are others in the same price range like the Bushnell 4200 but the Viper PST caught my eye. It seems like from what I've read so far I'd be better off to save a little more dough and get a scope that's pretty solid like NF or Leupold.
No..I'm not sold on anything. I just thought someone may have had first hand field experience with this scope. I dont mean sighting it in and putting back in the closet, and I was just wondering if any of higher end scopes have issues like the Viper PST. I'm using that scope to compare with others because of the price. Sure there are others in the same price range like the Bushnell 4200 but the Viper PST caught my eye. It seems like from what I've read so far I'd be better off to save a little more dough and get a scope that's pretty solid like NF or Leupold.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what? </div></div>
Black tunnel is the perfect way to describe it. Starting between 15 and 16x, its has a tunneling effect which worsens as the power goes up. Eye relief shrinks and becomes critical, meaning you have to be in the <span style="font-style: italic">perfect</span> position to avoid seeing the edges on the scope, if that makes sense. I have no real experience with high end scopes, other than peering through other shooters NF and Premier while at the range, so maybe thats normal to some extent. </div></div>
Yep, that makes sense thanks for the feedback. I was about to drop some $ on one so that helps a lot. Thanks!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Mine has been 100%. I dial up and back a bunch and it always tracks true. Glass is pretty good. Eye relief becomes short and critical once you hit 16x or more. Good stuff for the price. </div></div>
What happens at 16+ do you suddenly get the black-tunnel or what? </div></div>
Black tunnel is the perfect way to describe it. Starting between 15 and 16x, its has a tunneling effect which worsens as the power goes up. Eye relief shrinks and becomes critical, meaning you have to be in the <span style="font-style: italic">perfect</span> position to avoid seeing the edges on the scope, if that makes sense. I have no real experience with high end scopes, other than peering through other shooters NF and Premier while at the range, so maybe thats normal to some extent. </div></div>
Yep, that makes sense thanks for the feedback. I was about to drop some $ on one so that helps a lot. Thanks!
Re: Vortex Viper
there are crap tons of PST reviews on this site, use the SH google search to find them if you are having trouble locating them.
SH google
The regular viper is a fine piece of equipment for basic users, and is subject to the vortex lifetime no questions warranty. IF you had an issue, they'd make it right. They are known for excellent CS, which you can find many tales of on this board. This line of scopes is no-frills, meaning you don't get illumination or lots of reticle choices. The turrets are not big external tactical types, that's not what these scopes are for. These are fine for bench guns, hunting rifles, target shooting, etc.
The PST is for those looking for "a little more" than what basic offers. The PST is clearly designed to fill the gap between mid-value scopes and something like the Nightforce NXS series. What it does best, IMHO, is eat Leupold's breakfast right off their plate. Other than their longevity in the market, I really see no reason why you'd spend the same or more on a mk4 when the PST has all that jazz for less dough... unless you are absolutely in love with a specific feature like m3 knobs. Folks who know me well know i've got beef with Leupold, so let's not pretend i'm neutral here. Regardless, it can be brought down to simple quid-pro-quo analysis:
_______________________PST______mk4______________
Decent Quality Glass......... Y ...... arguable
tactile Turrets................ Y ......... Y
turret style selections........2...........4+
several ranges of mag....... Y ......... Y
available in mil/mil.......... Y ...... limited models
available in FFP.............. Y ......... Y
Scalar reticles............... both ..... mil only
awesome warranty...........Y ....... conditional basis
Price Point..............$700-900.......$900-1400
Your money, your call. To me, it's just not a smart fiscal decision to choose a more expensive product (with potentially inferior glass), that also has a conditional warranty.
there are crap tons of PST reviews on this site, use the SH google search to find them if you are having trouble locating them.
SH google
The regular viper is a fine piece of equipment for basic users, and is subject to the vortex lifetime no questions warranty. IF you had an issue, they'd make it right. They are known for excellent CS, which you can find many tales of on this board. This line of scopes is no-frills, meaning you don't get illumination or lots of reticle choices. The turrets are not big external tactical types, that's not what these scopes are for. These are fine for bench guns, hunting rifles, target shooting, etc.
The PST is for those looking for "a little more" than what basic offers. The PST is clearly designed to fill the gap between mid-value scopes and something like the Nightforce NXS series. What it does best, IMHO, is eat Leupold's breakfast right off their plate. Other than their longevity in the market, I really see no reason why you'd spend the same or more on a mk4 when the PST has all that jazz for less dough... unless you are absolutely in love with a specific feature like m3 knobs. Folks who know me well know i've got beef with Leupold, so let's not pretend i'm neutral here. Regardless, it can be brought down to simple quid-pro-quo analysis:
_______________________PST______mk4______________
Decent Quality Glass......... Y ...... arguable
tactile Turrets................ Y ......... Y
turret style selections........2...........4+
several ranges of mag....... Y ......... Y
available in mil/mil.......... Y ...... limited models
available in FFP.............. Y ......... Y
Scalar reticles............... both ..... mil only
awesome warranty...........Y ....... conditional basis
Price Point..............$700-900.......$900-1400
Your money, your call. To me, it's just not a smart fiscal decision to choose a more expensive product (with potentially inferior glass), that also has a conditional warranty.
Re: Vortex Viper
OP, If you're wanting something that's battle proven, stood the test of time, known to take a beating and still function for professional operators, Vortex isn't the answer. Simply because they haven't been around long enough to make it there yet...
Will they?? Quite possibly.
Every scope manufacturer and I mean EVERY scope manufacturer at one point or another has had a customer return a scope for quality issues, canted reticle, box test fail, turret issues, etc. How each company handles their customer service is another story...You can find the reviews on customer service at your leisure. Vortex along with other scope companies, is known for their CS being top notch, maybe even better...
Having said all that, does vortex make scopes that will take abuse and still function to the level of top of the line scope makers?? In my Opinion...yes. I think so. Again my just opinion... There are plenty of reviews of the Vortex RAzor HD here on the hide (including Lowlight putting one through the ringer)and how it compares to nightforce.
Not everyone is willing to shell out the cash for a high dollar scope that hasn't been proven. I can resonate with that...There are those that are willing to accept that level of risk where money may be no object....I'm sure there's someone out there that is dissappointed with their purchase of a Razor or a PST, just like there are some who have been dissappointed with their USO or nightforce...
Keep reading up, you on the right track but I wouldn't simply go off of one or two reviews of the pst...they're too new. You'll have to either take the risk based off the limited reviews that are available right now, or look else where if you're looking for the warm and fuzzy of "I know for a fact this scope is for me because it's been tried and true." Even then, once you get your choice of optic, you just might find you wanted something else...
OP, If you're wanting something that's battle proven, stood the test of time, known to take a beating and still function for professional operators, Vortex isn't the answer. Simply because they haven't been around long enough to make it there yet...
Will they?? Quite possibly.
Every scope manufacturer and I mean EVERY scope manufacturer at one point or another has had a customer return a scope for quality issues, canted reticle, box test fail, turret issues, etc. How each company handles their customer service is another story...You can find the reviews on customer service at your leisure. Vortex along with other scope companies, is known for their CS being top notch, maybe even better...
Having said all that, does vortex make scopes that will take abuse and still function to the level of top of the line scope makers?? In my Opinion...yes. I think so. Again my just opinion... There are plenty of reviews of the Vortex RAzor HD here on the hide (including Lowlight putting one through the ringer)and how it compares to nightforce.
Not everyone is willing to shell out the cash for a high dollar scope that hasn't been proven. I can resonate with that...There are those that are willing to accept that level of risk where money may be no object....I'm sure there's someone out there that is dissappointed with their purchase of a Razor or a PST, just like there are some who have been dissappointed with their USO or nightforce...
Keep reading up, you on the right track but I wouldn't simply go off of one or two reviews of the pst...they're too new. You'll have to either take the risk based off the limited reviews that are available right now, or look else where if you're looking for the warm and fuzzy of "I know for a fact this scope is for me because it's been tried and true." Even then, once you get your choice of optic, you just might find you wanted something else...
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading some reviews I really like the Viper PST but there seems to be a few issues that some of the "better" scopes might not have like the turrets being a little too sensitive to be uncovered. The same review stated that the retilce was canted 3% but went on to say that SOME of the higher end scopes have the same issue. Is that true.
</div></div>
That review that you read was from their initial production run. After the turret issues were brought up Vortex halted production and redesigned them. They've been getting great feedback since. Not sure if the reticle issue was addressed or if it was even a "real" issue (I'm sure some one that owns one can comment on that).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After reading some reviews I really like the Viper PST but there seems to be a few issues that some of the "better" scopes might not have like the turrets being a little too sensitive to be uncovered. The same review stated that the retilce was canted 3% but went on to say that SOME of the higher end scopes have the same issue. Is that true.
</div></div>
That review that you read was from their initial production run. After the turret issues were brought up Vortex halted production and redesigned them. They've been getting great feedback since. Not sure if the reticle issue was addressed or if it was even a "real" issue (I'm sure some one that owns one can comment on that).
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit. </div></div>
Not sure if anyone already clarified this for you but the Vortex Viper and the Vortex Viper PST are 2 different scopes, with different features and different glass.
Viper:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_riflescopes
Viper PST:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_pst_riflescopes
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr. MOA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for the input and advise so far. I'm just getting started and plan on getting pretty serious about shooting. I'm alittle confused the Vortex Viper PST that I've had my eye on has a glass etched reticle and is about $750 on sale and some guys are saying the Viper is $400 so either we're looking at different scopes or the place I'm looking is making a really awesome profit. </div></div>
Not sure if anyone already clarified this for you but the Vortex Viper and the Vortex Viper PST are 2 different scopes, with different features and different glass.
Viper:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_riflescopes
Viper PST:
http://www.vortexoptics.com/category/viper_pst_riflescopes
Re: Vortex Viper
I keep on hearing this rhetoric that Vortex doesn't have the track record of Company L and N and BBQ etc.., so don't buy it. Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them. Without people using the scopes, we're left with nothing but speculation.
When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar.
I keep on hearing this rhetoric that Vortex doesn't have the track record of Company L and N and BBQ etc.., so don't buy it. Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them. Without people using the scopes, we're left with nothing but speculation.
When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep on hearing this rhetoric that Vortex doesn't have the track record of Company L and N and BBQ etc.., so don't buy it. Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them. Without people using the scopes, we're left with nothing but speculation.
When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar. </div></div>
I agree....However, Some folks can't justify the risk of paying that much money without a proven track record. That's their choice.
Personally, I did the research, read the reviews and conversed with folks who have used the razor and other high end optics before making my choice. In the end, I took the calculated risk and bought a Razor HD several months ago and I couldn't be happier. It was a choice between the nightforce F1 and I have no regrets at all. With the experience I had with the Razor I went ahead and purchased their plane jane Viper and I'm well pleased with that optic for it's intended purpose as well. It's not the razor, but it's not intended to be.
Vortex Customer Service is the best that I have used. Not just optics, but in just about any company that I have had to deal with. The fact is Vortex listens to their customers and is reactive to their users. The redesigning of the PST and the Razor occular is evidence enough of that. Vortex is slowly but surely building their reputation and I'm sure that their "track record" will be established soon enough, nevertheless it takes time. I'm sure once Vortex makes their way into the professional arena, the attitude toward their track record will change.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USACS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I keep on hearing this rhetoric that Vortex doesn't have the track record of Company L and N and BBQ etc.., so don't buy it. Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them. Without people using the scopes, we're left with nothing but speculation.
When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar. </div></div>
I agree....However, Some folks can't justify the risk of paying that much money without a proven track record. That's their choice.
Personally, I did the research, read the reviews and conversed with folks who have used the razor and other high end optics before making my choice. In the end, I took the calculated risk and bought a Razor HD several months ago and I couldn't be happier. It was a choice between the nightforce F1 and I have no regrets at all. With the experience I had with the Razor I went ahead and purchased their plane jane Viper and I'm well pleased with that optic for it's intended purpose as well. It's not the razor, but it's not intended to be.
Vortex Customer Service is the best that I have used. Not just optics, but in just about any company that I have had to deal with. The fact is Vortex listens to their customers and is reactive to their users. The redesigning of the PST and the Razor occular is evidence enough of that. Vortex is slowly but surely building their reputation and I'm sure that their "track record" will be established soon enough, nevertheless it takes time. I'm sure once Vortex makes their way into the professional arena, the attitude toward their track record will change.
Re: Vortex Viper
I have some real concerns about all of the comments that describe short comings with great customer service.
I want to mount my scope, torque it down, zero and get to shooting. I want to experiment with bullet loads not scopes.
Are you looking for a scope to shoot or to send back?
It sounds like Vortex is eager to respond and address these short comings. However, I don't care if they come to my house, pick it up and bring it back. I don't buy a scope because of customer service. I buy a scope for performance and intend on not having to send it back. If I do, and don’t like the service, I will bitch then.
I don't buy one to test and evaluate, send back and then start all over. That is the company’s job for research and development. IF they want to send some scopes out, I am sure there are shooters, police departments and military that will be glad to test and evaluate. Then in a few years Vortex might have the kinks worked out.
Look at the number of post, look at the number of concerns or issues. If there are too many issues, then I suggest you wait. If not, then go for it. Whatever your decision I hope you have a life time of shooting pleasure and never need customer service.
I have some real concerns about all of the comments that describe short comings with great customer service.
I want to mount my scope, torque it down, zero and get to shooting. I want to experiment with bullet loads not scopes.
Are you looking for a scope to shoot or to send back?
It sounds like Vortex is eager to respond and address these short comings. However, I don't care if they come to my house, pick it up and bring it back. I don't buy a scope because of customer service. I buy a scope for performance and intend on not having to send it back. If I do, and don’t like the service, I will bitch then.
I don't buy one to test and evaluate, send back and then start all over. That is the company’s job for research and development. IF they want to send some scopes out, I am sure there are shooters, police departments and military that will be glad to test and evaluate. Then in a few years Vortex might have the kinks worked out.
Look at the number of post, look at the number of concerns or issues. If there are too many issues, then I suggest you wait. If not, then go for it. Whatever your decision I hope you have a life time of shooting pleasure and never need customer service.
Re: Vortex Viper
"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase.
"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase.</div></div>
I understand what you're saying and where you're going with this, but I think it's important to consider that people need to start from somewhere, and Vortex is a good place to start. Not everyone has the money to drop on a Nightforce NXS or USO.
I realize that companies like Leupold have scopes with proven records of durability. My very old Vari-X II is tough as nails, even though it's dented to hell. However, for the record I've owned several Leupolds and one of them was utter crap and one of the worst scopes I've ever owned.
There have been reviews of Vortex scopes by very reputable people, not the least of which is Ilya Koshkin.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php
Ilya has commented favorably on the quality of the Vortex scopes.
In his "Inexpensive Scope" Comparison, the Vortex Diamondback basically slaughtered the competition.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?opti...ws&Itemid=4
I realize that it's not a bad idea to go with something that is more of a "sure thing" like a Leupold or Nikon, but I also think that the concerns about Vortex scopes may be a bit over-hyped. Some of the concerns I've previously read on this forum seem to be more related to personal tastes and preferences than they are about actual mechanical issues. Mind you, I'm not dismissing that there have been mechanical issues brought up. Inasmuch, just because I absolutely abhorred my Leupold UltimateSlam shotgun scope, and felt that it was a poorly designed and built scope, that doesn't make Leupold a bad company for producing it.
I don't know...just own humble opinion. Not trying to be argumentative, just adding a different perspective is all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase.</div></div>
I understand what you're saying and where you're going with this, but I think it's important to consider that people need to start from somewhere, and Vortex is a good place to start. Not everyone has the money to drop on a Nightforce NXS or USO.
I realize that companies like Leupold have scopes with proven records of durability. My very old Vari-X II is tough as nails, even though it's dented to hell. However, for the record I've owned several Leupolds and one of them was utter crap and one of the worst scopes I've ever owned.
There have been reviews of Vortex scopes by very reputable people, not the least of which is Ilya Koshkin.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php
Ilya has commented favorably on the quality of the Vortex scopes.
In his "Inexpensive Scope" Comparison, the Vortex Diamondback basically slaughtered the competition.
http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?opti...ws&Itemid=4
I realize that it's not a bad idea to go with something that is more of a "sure thing" like a Leupold or Nikon, but I also think that the concerns about Vortex scopes may be a bit over-hyped. Some of the concerns I've previously read on this forum seem to be more related to personal tastes and preferences than they are about actual mechanical issues. Mind you, I'm not dismissing that there have been mechanical issues brought up. Inasmuch, just because I absolutely abhorred my Leupold UltimateSlam shotgun scope, and felt that it was a poorly designed and built scope, that doesn't make Leupold a bad company for producing it.
I don't know...just own humble opinion. Not trying to be argumentative, just adding a different perspective is all.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase. </div></div>
People seem to be quick to turn nose and jump on the "It's inferior" bandwaggon just because of them being the newer kids on the block, or because their price point is not +$1000.00. or greater...or woops they had a hicup....whatever. Hell I'm not and, nor are too many others around here, so stupid as to think these compare to USO, Nightforce or SB, but by hell or high water, I will put it up aginst Leupold any day of the week. Also, it should be noted, had you read further along, these issues have been addressed and the guys buying these seem to be really happy.
First off, I have two Vortex Vipers, both 6.5-20X44, the $400.00 ones, the "cheap shit". Both have been abosolutely flawless from day number 1. I mounted, zeroed, shot and have kept on shooting. Had them both for a couple of years give or take a month or two. One has been drug down a rock wall in AZ. Covered in sand in a sandstorm, subjected to +100 degree desert temps in July. Two years later still tracking perfect, still operating at 100%, and has never been removed from the rifle or re-zeroed. The glass on the Viper (yea that would be the $400.00 one again) compares in everyway to the 2 VX-IIIs and one Mk4 I have, period. So what if it has a wire rectical. It frigg'n works and mine took one ass beating in the desert over several weeks of hard shooting and weather, and with the unconditional warranty, they will fix it period, even if you are the 100th owner.
That being said, I have sent one VXIII back to Leupold for work and the one USO I have needs to go back for work, the one S&B I have has been flawless.....now, I am not saying I will never send back a Vortex, but so far so good. All companies, all barnds have to have ones that come back for something. That's just the way it is.
I would say, before you jump the "I would not" soap box, why not try one out for yourself, and then give us an honest run down. Making assumptions that what this builder uses vs. that builder on their rifles for whatever reason is the best bet, might not be the best bet for each person. Not everyone can afford a SB or NF, nor maybe even a Mk4, and the addage of saying "eat canned beans and crackers for 3 meals, ride your sisters Hello Kitty bike to work and save save save" still does not fit into everyones life no matter how hard they try. But, they still have the desire to do what they can to shoot, just as they should be allowed.
Vortex makes a great scope, not just a great scope for the money. Use it as intended and you will not be dissapointed. In my book, you will not go wrong with the PST, period. Will I buy one, bank on it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: alt6grunt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them"
I disagree with the above statement. They won't get that top of the line reputation until they have corrected the issues.
It won't matter how many users there are, that will just make the number of owners with issues increase. </div></div>
People seem to be quick to turn nose and jump on the "It's inferior" bandwaggon just because of them being the newer kids on the block, or because their price point is not +$1000.00. or greater...or woops they had a hicup....whatever. Hell I'm not and, nor are too many others around here, so stupid as to think these compare to USO, Nightforce or SB, but by hell or high water, I will put it up aginst Leupold any day of the week. Also, it should be noted, had you read further along, these issues have been addressed and the guys buying these seem to be really happy.
First off, I have two Vortex Vipers, both 6.5-20X44, the $400.00 ones, the "cheap shit". Both have been abosolutely flawless from day number 1. I mounted, zeroed, shot and have kept on shooting. Had them both for a couple of years give or take a month or two. One has been drug down a rock wall in AZ. Covered in sand in a sandstorm, subjected to +100 degree desert temps in July. Two years later still tracking perfect, still operating at 100%, and has never been removed from the rifle or re-zeroed. The glass on the Viper (yea that would be the $400.00 one again) compares in everyway to the 2 VX-IIIs and one Mk4 I have, period. So what if it has a wire rectical. It frigg'n works and mine took one ass beating in the desert over several weeks of hard shooting and weather, and with the unconditional warranty, they will fix it period, even if you are the 100th owner.
That being said, I have sent one VXIII back to Leupold for work and the one USO I have needs to go back for work, the one S&B I have has been flawless.....now, I am not saying I will never send back a Vortex, but so far so good. All companies, all barnds have to have ones that come back for something. That's just the way it is.
I would say, before you jump the "I would not" soap box, why not try one out for yourself, and then give us an honest run down. Making assumptions that what this builder uses vs. that builder on their rifles for whatever reason is the best bet, might not be the best bet for each person. Not everyone can afford a SB or NF, nor maybe even a Mk4, and the addage of saying "eat canned beans and crackers for 3 meals, ride your sisters Hello Kitty bike to work and save save save" still does not fit into everyones life no matter how hard they try. But, they still have the desire to do what they can to shoot, just as they should be allowed.
Vortex makes a great scope, not just a great scope for the money. Use it as intended and you will not be dissapointed. In my book, you will not go wrong with the PST, period. Will I buy one, bank on it.
Re: Vortex Viper
“how do they compare to some of the higher priced scopes” was in the initial post. “getting serious: was in a follow up post.
He didn’t ask how they compared to other mid range scopes or those found at the bottom. Nor did he say he could not afford the upper end.
I don’t recall saying not to buy one. I have encouraged research, and to see what those really serious people in the industry use. Actually, I think I said if you do buy one, let us know how it turns out.
Maybe I missed understood some of the comments like they all started somewhere and "Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them" If so, I am sorry.
I took that to say, selling more will give them a better reputation. I feel the opposite is true, I like to think a better reputation will sell more.
I would agree that if you went back to birth of Leupold and Night Force they had developmental problems also. However, they are among the few that have blazed a trail for all others to follow.
I just enjoy hearing the various oppinions and debating both sides. I hope that MR. MOA takes them all in stride as he goes from just getting started to serious.
“how do they compare to some of the higher priced scopes” was in the initial post. “getting serious: was in a follow up post.
He didn’t ask how they compared to other mid range scopes or those found at the bottom. Nor did he say he could not afford the upper end.
I don’t recall saying not to buy one. I have encouraged research, and to see what those really serious people in the industry use. Actually, I think I said if you do buy one, let us know how it turns out.
Maybe I missed understood some of the comments like they all started somewhere and "Thing is, they won't get that reputation until people actually use them" If so, I am sorry.
I took that to say, selling more will give them a better reputation. I feel the opposite is true, I like to think a better reputation will sell more.
I would agree that if you went back to birth of Leupold and Night Force they had developmental problems also. However, they are among the few that have blazed a trail for all others to follow.
I just enjoy hearing the various oppinions and debating both sides. I hope that MR. MOA takes them all in stride as he goes from just getting started to serious.
Re: Vortex Viper
"When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar. [/quote]
Sounds like good advise to me. Although alt6grunt does have a point with what the premier weapons builders place on top of their rifles.
Depends on 2 things though: 1)Do you have the bank? 2) Are you willing to spend it.
Until I started reading on the hide I had no idea folks had such beef with Leupold. Growing up on a farm I was proud to put Leupold glass on top of all my rifles, and thought they were high quality. I've shot hundreds of sub-moa groups with Leupold glass and killed a tractor trailer load of critters with them.
I say get the Vortex if you want it.
"When it comes down to it, we know two solid pieces of information: Vortex optics give you high value for actual money spent, and Vortex's warranty and customer service are stellar. [/quote]
Sounds like good advise to me. Although alt6grunt does have a point with what the premier weapons builders place on top of their rifles.
Depends on 2 things though: 1)Do you have the bank? 2) Are you willing to spend it.
Until I started reading on the hide I had no idea folks had such beef with Leupold. Growing up on a farm I was proud to put Leupold glass on top of all my rifles, and thought they were high quality. I've shot hundreds of sub-moa groups with Leupold glass and killed a tractor trailer load of critters with them.
I say get the Vortex if you want it.
Re: Vortex Viper
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like good advise to me. Although alt6grunt does have a point with what the premier weapons builders place on top of their rifles.
</div></div>
A lot of that has more to do with name recognition and association. It's a marketing maneuver. Many people recognize certain names, so companies like to use those associated names to assist with helping people to create a connection to the product. If you look at sports tire companies like Bridgestone, you'll see that in nearly every commercial you see a BMW. This is because it associates Bridgestone tires with a brand that people consider to be top-end.
In terms of what the companies themselves actually use, it depends. Remington has been with Leupold for a long time, which I would think has a lot to do with military contracts putting the both together all the time. However, Remington is now advertising the new XM3 with a NightForce NXS.
Other times, there's technology issues, like how Barrett's BORS system is designed to be used with the Mark4.
I find this argument to be legitimate, but limited. The reason being that you don't see major companies like Winchester, Remington, Savage or Kimber advertising their rifles with Schmidt&Bender, Premier or Hensoldt scopes, but those are all superior to a Leupold or NightForce. If you look at other companies like GAP rifles, the first thing you see on their page is are people holding rifles topped with a USO SN-3.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rookie7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sounds like good advise to me. Although alt6grunt does have a point with what the premier weapons builders place on top of their rifles.
</div></div>
A lot of that has more to do with name recognition and association. It's a marketing maneuver. Many people recognize certain names, so companies like to use those associated names to assist with helping people to create a connection to the product. If you look at sports tire companies like Bridgestone, you'll see that in nearly every commercial you see a BMW. This is because it associates Bridgestone tires with a brand that people consider to be top-end.
In terms of what the companies themselves actually use, it depends. Remington has been with Leupold for a long time, which I would think has a lot to do with military contracts putting the both together all the time. However, Remington is now advertising the new XM3 with a NightForce NXS.
Other times, there's technology issues, like how Barrett's BORS system is designed to be used with the Mark4.
I find this argument to be legitimate, but limited. The reason being that you don't see major companies like Winchester, Remington, Savage or Kimber advertising their rifles with Schmidt&Bender, Premier or Hensoldt scopes, but those are all superior to a Leupold or NightForce. If you look at other companies like GAP rifles, the first thing you see on their page is are people holding rifles topped with a USO SN-3.
Re: Vortex Viper
I haven't seen any of these rifles mounted with a Vortex in their advertisements. I guess a builder will sell you one. I don't know, I have never heard of it happening.
On the GAP, Kimber, Remington Custom Shop, or XM3 web sites are any of the Vortex Scopes even priced as an option.
I think most custom gun builders do like accessories that are recognized by site and name. I would too.
I am sure TASCO, Bushnell, Simmons and BSA would love to make the cover of any tactical magazine, setting on top of a well known gun guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA. The problem is most builders just don’t mount them. Marketing? Maybe.
Performance and proven reputation with earned confidence, probably.
I haven't seen any of these rifles mounted with a Vortex in their advertisements. I guess a builder will sell you one. I don't know, I have never heard of it happening.
On the GAP, Kimber, Remington Custom Shop, or XM3 web sites are any of the Vortex Scopes even priced as an option.
I think most custom gun builders do like accessories that are recognized by site and name. I would too.
I am sure TASCO, Bushnell, Simmons and BSA would love to make the cover of any tactical magazine, setting on top of a well known gun guaranteed to shoot 1/2 MOA. The problem is most builders just don’t mount them. Marketing? Maybe.
Performance and proven reputation with earned confidence, probably.
Re: Vortex Viper
I say go with the Vortex and you will be happy, there customer service is quite possibly the best.
I say go with the Vortex and you will be happy, there customer service is quite possibly the best.
Re: Vortex Viper
Mr. MOA, you are getting a lot of information in response your question on this thread. The thing that you have to keep in mind is that you are asking the question on an internet forum.
I'm just saying that because it appears that some are questioning the quality of the products that you are considering. I first have to wonder how many of those people that have negative feelings about Vortex Vipers or even the PSTs actually have them or used them. Personally, I've never known anyone to use a Viper (non PST) and then call it a piece of crap. How does it compare to a higher priced scope, like an equivalent Nightforce? It doesn't. The Nightforce is a nicer scope, but you have to keep in mind that I paid $1500 for the Nightforce that I compared the $400 20X Viper to.
I know that Vortex is a relatively new company, but they are by no means new. They have been around for a while and have been establishing their reputation by providing optics that offer a very good bang for the buck and backing that up with customer service that is second to none.
How many manufacturers do you know of that have enough confidence in their products to offer a lifetime, transferable warranty. Even my Nightforce came with a notice in the box that stated something to the effect that the purchaser should complete the warranty card and send it in ASAP or you'll be screwed on the warranty. I know that NF is a good company and they may not hold owners of NF scopes to the rigid warranty requirements that the notice in the box implies, but they certainly hold the cards when deciding whether or not to warranty something.
Heck, before Christmas, I was shopping for some binoculars to give as a gift. I looked at the Vortex, but wasn't sure if they were a quality item (although they looked good), so I called Vortex. Now, I don't know if this is their policy or what, but the guy I talked to said to go ahead and buy them. If I didn't like them, and the vendor wouldn't take them back, they would buy them back from me for what I paid for them.
The fact of the matter is that almost everything that you buy is a matter of being a good bang for the buck. Of course, there is top tier. Premier, Hensoldt and S&B. Everything short of those is a compromise between performance and cost.
Most guys are looking for the bang for the buck. To me, Nightforce is a great bang for the buck. It has a robust build and good glass quality and it's in a price range where I can afford to outfit my rifles with them. I KNOW that the top tier scopes are better, but I can't afford to put them on all of my rifles and the Nightforce is more than good enough for me. I preferred to go that way than have just one Premier or S&B and lesser scopes on all of my other equipment.
Now I don't know what your finances are like, but if $400 is all that you can afford for a scope, then you'll be hard pressed to find a better scope for the money. Now, if you can afford the $750 -$900 for a PST, again (from what I've seen) I think that you'll be hard pressed to find a better scope for the money.
Personally, I have the 6-24X PST on its way to me. It should be here on Wednesday. Quite frankly, I'm hoping that it will be nice, but if its as nice or nicer than my NF, I'm gonna be pissed.
Of course, if you can afford a Nightforce, then go for it. I've never regretted getting the best that I can afford.
Mr. MOA, you are getting a lot of information in response your question on this thread. The thing that you have to keep in mind is that you are asking the question on an internet forum.
I'm just saying that because it appears that some are questioning the quality of the products that you are considering. I first have to wonder how many of those people that have negative feelings about Vortex Vipers or even the PSTs actually have them or used them. Personally, I've never known anyone to use a Viper (non PST) and then call it a piece of crap. How does it compare to a higher priced scope, like an equivalent Nightforce? It doesn't. The Nightforce is a nicer scope, but you have to keep in mind that I paid $1500 for the Nightforce that I compared the $400 20X Viper to.
I know that Vortex is a relatively new company, but they are by no means new. They have been around for a while and have been establishing their reputation by providing optics that offer a very good bang for the buck and backing that up with customer service that is second to none.
How many manufacturers do you know of that have enough confidence in their products to offer a lifetime, transferable warranty. Even my Nightforce came with a notice in the box that stated something to the effect that the purchaser should complete the warranty card and send it in ASAP or you'll be screwed on the warranty. I know that NF is a good company and they may not hold owners of NF scopes to the rigid warranty requirements that the notice in the box implies, but they certainly hold the cards when deciding whether or not to warranty something.
Heck, before Christmas, I was shopping for some binoculars to give as a gift. I looked at the Vortex, but wasn't sure if they were a quality item (although they looked good), so I called Vortex. Now, I don't know if this is their policy or what, but the guy I talked to said to go ahead and buy them. If I didn't like them, and the vendor wouldn't take them back, they would buy them back from me for what I paid for them.
The fact of the matter is that almost everything that you buy is a matter of being a good bang for the buck. Of course, there is top tier. Premier, Hensoldt and S&B. Everything short of those is a compromise between performance and cost.
Most guys are looking for the bang for the buck. To me, Nightforce is a great bang for the buck. It has a robust build and good glass quality and it's in a price range where I can afford to outfit my rifles with them. I KNOW that the top tier scopes are better, but I can't afford to put them on all of my rifles and the Nightforce is more than good enough for me. I preferred to go that way than have just one Premier or S&B and lesser scopes on all of my other equipment.
Now I don't know what your finances are like, but if $400 is all that you can afford for a scope, then you'll be hard pressed to find a better scope for the money. Now, if you can afford the $750 -$900 for a PST, again (from what I've seen) I think that you'll be hard pressed to find a better scope for the money.
Personally, I have the 6-24X PST on its way to me. It should be here on Wednesday. Quite frankly, I'm hoping that it will be nice, but if its as nice or nicer than my NF, I'm gonna be pissed.
Of course, if you can afford a Nightforce, then go for it. I've never regretted getting the best that I can afford.
Re: Vortex Viper
I went through this pondering question, I have a friend with a leopold mark 4 and during mid day I liked my Vortex PST better, the leopold did track better late in the evening ( dark ) but by that time shooting hours was over anyhow. my 785$ scope was deffentaly on par with his 1500$ scope. in my mind vortex is the best scope for the coin I am deffinatly glad for the decession, my next scope will also be a PST. Not untill I shoot better than the scope will I get a nightforce. But the scope performs beyond my capability of shooting. you will not regret the decesion. just make sure you get FFP and Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa for ease of calculating. I did not, I called vortex with my dummy mistake and they exchanged it no questions asked and no extra cost. Now that is service.
in short Vortex +1
I went through this pondering question, I have a friend with a leopold mark 4 and during mid day I liked my Vortex PST better, the leopold did track better late in the evening ( dark ) but by that time shooting hours was over anyhow. my 785$ scope was deffentaly on par with his 1500$ scope. in my mind vortex is the best scope for the coin I am deffinatly glad for the decession, my next scope will also be a PST. Not untill I shoot better than the scope will I get a nightforce. But the scope performs beyond my capability of shooting. you will not regret the decesion. just make sure you get FFP and Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa for ease of calculating. I did not, I called vortex with my dummy mistake and they exchanged it no questions asked and no extra cost. Now that is service.
in short Vortex +1
Re: Vortex Viper
TonyAngel when you get your scope let me know what you think about the comparison. I have peeked through a NF and shot the gun it was mounted on and I have to say that it was pretty sweet. So I'd like to know if its close. I'm iterested in the Viper PST 6-24.
TonyAngel when you get your scope let me know what you think about the comparison. I have peeked through a NF and shot the gun it was mounted on and I have to say that it was pretty sweet. So I'd like to know if its close. I'm iterested in the Viper PST 6-24.
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