Vudoo : How about we split the difference?

[Kevin1]

I’ve been reading a lot about Vudoo rifles lately on this site and it seems like it’s the best thing since slide bread.

Fine, it has a rem 700 footprint and you can configure it like your PRS match gun. It’s reliable and doesn’t have weak ejection like most Anschutz. The magazine is awesome like a CZ and not like Anschutz where you have to push the wrong way.


But here’s my problem. Some people convey the idea that a Vudoo rifle will shoot all days in the 0.1s at 50Y and in the .5s at 100Y.

So, let’s split the difference:
What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle? A Vudoo action sent to a master rimfire gunsmith that custom fit a button rifled barrel. will slug the and cut it at the tightest spot, make sure the barrel is perfect with a borescope, etc….

 

[Kadams1563]

You mean their are other .22’s besides Vudoo’s?!?

 

[Kevin1]

You mean their are other .22’s besides Vudoo’s?!?

Only in the PX under WTS section

 

[RTH1800]

I have owned and shot a few Vudoo's. 3 of them were shipped to Eley testing. They all shot well. I like them and they have great modern features. A rimfire is still a rimfire. I now own no Vudoo's. I have a Win 52 that shoots as well and likely is a bit more accurate. It suits my current uses a bit better. Most would prefer the Vudoo. Not a thing in the world wrong them and the maker should be congratulated for bringing this much needed rifle to market. Great folks to deal with BTW.

 

[justin amateur]

will shoot all days in the 0.1s at 50Y and in the .5s at 100Y

I'd like to see that.
Considering that the Eley and Lapua test facilities record the best results by computer.
The best 40 shot aggregate is just under 12mm outside to outside.
Just under 1/2 inch, indoors from a jig with the best ammunition available
and some of the best rifles in the world, at 50 meters.

 

[billmeek]

What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle?

For what use? What budget? I could suggest something like Bleiker but that only covers a specific usage and costs around $9000.

 

[Kadams1563]

Best repeater ruger 10/22.

Every household should have one.

 

[billmeek]

Every household should have one.

... or 2, or 3,...

 

[Kevin1]

For what use? What budget? I could suggest something like Bleiker but that only covers a specific usage and costs around $9000.

Naaa,
From the goups I've seen posted on this site, the $10k Bleiker doesn't shoot as good as the Vudoo at 100Y.

Here's the Bleiker.....OMG only 0.5" with the best ammo it likes and with no winds.....
http://www.accuratereloading.com/2009/bl100.html

 

[Diver160651]

First as a Vudoo owner, 22NRL shooter, usually placing at the top in my small pond, 22LR ammo is 22LR ammo, wind is wind. Your not going to see 1/2 minute groups at 100 all the time often over 1”. Just based on that alone.

But.... for anyone who thinks the mags are just good or = to other good mags they are completely missing the point. The mags go into our belt clips just like or centerfire Rifles, blind mag changes are fast and just like our centerfire Rifles. This is a huge deal.

Triggers, for thoughs running 2 stage triggers on their 700 foot print actions, like a Huber or Bix and Andy you can run the SAME exact trigger. He’ll you can run the same single stage trigger too. This is very helpful for practicing.

Additionally, you can use the very same stock or Chassis until you can afford another one with a relatively inexpensive barreled action.

Currently it is simply the VERY best 22 trainer hands down.

 

[billmeek]

So all Bleiker's only can do .5 inches at 100 yards based on the results from 1 rifle? Even if it's true, it only proves the point that intended usage is important. Asking "What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle?" is like asking "What's the best car?" without specifying if you're looking for top speed, acceleration, handling, comfort, reliability, value, etc.

 

[Kevin1]

First as a Vudoo owner, 22NRL shooter, usually placing at the top in my small pond, 22LR ammo is 22LR ammo, wind is wind. Your not going to see 1/2 minute groups at 100 all the time often over 1”. Just based on that alone.

But.... for anyone who thinks the mags are just good or = to other good mags they are completely missing the point. The mags go into our belt clips just like or centerfire Rifles, blind mag changes are fast and just like our centerfire Rifles. This is a huge deal.

Triggers, for thoughs running 2 stage triggers on their 700 foot print actions, like a Huber or Bix and Andy you can run the SAME exact trigger. He’ll you can run the same single stage trigger too. This is very helpful for practicing.

Additionally, you can use the very same stock or Chassis until you can afford another one with a relatively inexpensive barreled action.

Currently it is simply the VERY best 22 trainer hands down.

Exactly. Vudoo is the BEST trainer barreled action. We agree 100%.
What it's not, is one holer rifle some are portraying.

 

[Kevin1]

So all Bleiker's only can do .5 inches at 100 yards based on the results from 1 rifle? Even if it's true, it only proves the point that intended usage is important. Asking "What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle?" is like asking "What's the best car?" without specifying if you're looking for top speed, acceleration, handling, comfort, reliability, value, etc.

The perfect 22LR reapeter (if you discard aesthetics), is the purpose of my post. It would be a Vudoo action sent to a master gunsmith. You get 100% function/reliability, R700 footprint......AND extreme accuracy .

 

[Subwrx300]

I think a solid Rimfire should be able to start under 1.5" at 100 and the very best will be around an 1" consistently for 10-15 shot groups.

RPRF, CZ, and maybe a few others should be in the first category without much modification if any. Vudoos and other custommods to above rifles (like new barrel/trigger) will likely be at the 1" mark.

Just shot these at 100; RPRF, Shaw barrel and SK Long Range ammo. $400 gun, $200 barrel, $600 total. 15 shot groups working to read wind for each shot: (note I tossed the CB shots from each group as they are 40-50fps slower and always hit 1-2moa low in cold/cool weather)

 

[Diver160651]

Exactly. Vudoo is the BEST trainer barreled action. We agree 100%.
What it's not, is one holer rifle some are portraying.

Yes, agreed. That was my first paragraph..

Here is a target all from the same day, outside on a bipod. At 25&50 with 100 tossed in You can really see that the ammo has got a lot of vertical and a little bit of wind in the 100.. wait for it..

FWIW - just ran it the 100y group on Ballistic, not a bad 100 yard group, even with the first shot high.

^ What? Wait, --- this is from a PCP air gun that cost as much as the Vudoo.

^ This is rimfire, sorry for being a prankster.. the target represents 110shots, 50 shots at 25y and 60 shots at 50y (one in the center at 50 yards).. BY 100 the ammo starts really showing it's ugly head and truth be told I really took my time on these shots on a windless morning.

The point I am trying to make is it doesn't really mater if you have a air rifle or benchrest gun, if the manual of arms is not the same as your centerfire or does not work for the task.. The Vudoo is all about the manual of arms..in an accurate package.

 

[acudaowner]

anschutz rifles look really expensive weather they are better or not i can not say never shot one and may probably never will have the chance but they are used by the us olympic 50m shooting team and if they are good enough for them then i could have no complaints .

 

[deltawiskey]

I have owned and shot a few Vudoo's. 3 of them were shipped to Eley testing. They all shot well. I like them and they have great modern features. A rimfire is still a rimfire. I now own no Vudoo's. I have a Win 52 that shoots as well and likely is a bit more accurate. It suits my current uses a bit better. Most would prefer the Vudoo. Not a thing in the world wrong them and the maker should be congratulated for bringing this much needed rifle to market. Great folks to deal with BTW.

I'd trade my Vudoo in a heartbeat for your Winchester 52!!! My Vudoo is awesome, but that Win.... thats in another league!
DW

 

[usafa77]

What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle? A Vudoo action sent to a master rimfire gunsmith that will slug the barrel and cut it at the tightest spot, make sure the barrel is perfect with a borescope, etc….

Isn't that kind of the point of my Vudoo? I don't have to send it to a gunsmith to have a darn good rifle? 50 pages of Vudoo fanboys ( me), 50 pages of how to make my Ruger, CZ, anything else run.

 

[Lynn Jr]

Kevin
The guys here are not shooting for extreme accuracy. They are using a 22 as a shorter distance PRS rifle.
The good 22 Rimfire actions all use Remington pattern triggers and as you already posted you can have Richard Gorhman set one up correctly for not alot of paper.
The best 22 repeaters are made by Bill Calfee then Richard Gorhman.
If your looking for a short-range trainer for PRS or NRL use what the top dogs in that discipline are using.
And I am surprised they are shooting in the 0.1s.
I read all the time about the 0.0s

 

[brianf]

As said before not worried about the best...

Worried about fitting in any stock or chassis I want.

I have several accessories that I switch from my real AI’s to my vudoo when needed

If I could have gotten that with a XXX rifle I would have.

On the plus side it shoots very well too

 

[flatland1]

I'd really love to be able to afford to have a top-flight RF BR 'smith do a bbl for one of my V-22s. I'd need access to something like the Lapua Test Center in order to compare such a rifle with one of the V-22s I already have with a Bartlein bbl. Even then, it wouldn't necessarily be an apples-to-apples comparison, since the Bartlein is a cut-rifled bbl, and I doubt you'd get one of the top BR 'smiths to use anything but a top-line button rifled blank. Still, if it was my money paying for the experiment, that's the way I'd run it - Bartlein vs Mullerworks or Shilen. Would sure be entertaining, even if it wound up being a draw between the two (which wouldn't surprise me that much). I'll tell you this - I don't believe the limits to the sizes of the groups I've posted here have as much to do with the rifle & ammo's limits as they do with my ability to hold really, really consistently, and to have a hold (even on a good front rest & rear bag) that eliminates most of the errors & inconsistency that cause larger groups...

 

[bhoges]

I started shooing 3 position smallbore when I was 12. My first rifle was a Mossberg 144. Being left handed it was a pain to shoot prone. I shot pretty well and stepped up to an Anschutz 1813L. Years later I got a sweet deal on an Anschutz 545MS left hand for Silhouette matches. These rifles ruined me with triggers that broke like glass, 5 oz triggers, and absolute tac drivers. If I miss it was me not the rifle. Fast forward to last summer. I wanted a bolt action that was mag feed, light trigger, and accurate. Of yeah left handed. Well my Vudoo easily filled that zoid. I have to say its just as accurate as my Anschutz but now its a repeater. With no wind at 50 yards using proper ammo 1/4 inch groups are very normal. My first 22 PRS match I won by 60 points. Well worth the money.

 

[jbell]

I’ve been reading a lot about Vudoo rifles lately on this site and it seems like it’s the best thing since slide bread.

Fine, it has a rem 700 footprint and you can configure it like your PRS match gun. It’s reliable and doesn’t have weak ejection like most Anschutz. The magazine is awesome like a CZ and not like Anschutz where you have to push the wrong way.


But here’s my problem. Some people convey the idea that a Vudoo rifle will shoot all days in the 0.1s at 50Y and in the .5s at 100Y.
The manufacturer posts pictures of those exceptional groups online, but only guarantees 1 MOA accuracy.

So, let’s split the difference:
What’s the perfect 22LR repeater rifle? A Vudoo action sent to a master rimfire gunsmith that will slug the barrel and cut it at the tightest spot, make sure the barrel is perfect with a borescope, etc….

I don't expect any likes on this post and I'm fine with it. I hate being politically correct and follow the crowd just to be "liked". Let's pull our head out of our a... and show some critical thinking skills.

Interesting post. Maybe I am missing something but, I am a bit confused by your question... You ask "What is the perfect rimfire repeater rifle?" that can not be answered until the task or discipline is known, perfect for what?

I have been following the Vudoo threads fairly close since day one, and most all rimfire threads here on the Hide because I am interested in accurate 22lr. I am no expert, nor am I the most experienced but I feel like I have somewhat of a grasp on what a "good" 22lr rifle is and what they are capable of. I have not gotten the impression that the idea of these VGW built V22's will shoot 0.1's @ 50 and 0.5's @ 100 all day is being conveyed. As a matter of fact I would call bull shit on anyone making that claim with any rimfire rifle especially a repeater. If you have shot much rimfire at all you will know the limiting factor is the ammo more so than the rifle shooting it (as long as it is quality rifle built by a competent gunsmith with quality components).

You mention that VGW guarantees 1 MOA. I honestly did not know they even had an accuracy guarantee, shows you how much I pay attention to that kind of stuff. But IMO the reason it is 1 MOA as opposed to a more true reflection of the accuracy these rifle are capable of is because most people have no clue about shooting rimfire and what it takes to actually shoot in the 0.1XX's. Not to mention the ammo is so widely varying and unpredictable, the 1 MOA is a safe margin for a wide variety of rimfire ammo.

What I have seen being conveyed and what I believe to be true is that these VGW built V22 rifles are the highest quality, reliable out of the box, most consistently accurate rimfire repeater that has EVER been offered by any company to date. In addition to that the icing on the cake is that VGW has thus far proven to be the gold standard for how a company should handle customer service. I completely understand that what I have just said is a very bold statement, but one I personally stand behind 100% and welcome any thoughts as to how I am mistaken. So with all that said, yes I agree there are quite a lot of Vudoo fanboys as of late and I am one (and proud of it). But I feel this is not the typical "I am a fanboy because I feel the need to justify my expensive purchase", but rather it is a "I am a fan boy because this company has seriously raised the bar to a level where no one else can even compete at this point in time".

Would you mind to point out to me why we should "pull our heads out of our a.. and show some critical thinking skills" with the VGW V22's because I am clearly missing something...

 

[Sieg]

Rimfire rifles will never be perfect until you can buy perfect ammo on a regular basis.

 

[Kevin1]

Interesting post. Maybe I am missing something but, I am a bit confused by your question... You ask "What is the perfect rimfire repeater rifle?" that can not be answered until the task or discipline is known, perfect for what?

I have been following the Vudoo threads fairly close since day one, and most all rimfire threads here on the Hide because I am interested in accurate 22lr. I am no expert, nor am I the most experienced but I feel like I have somewhat of a grasp on what a "good" 22lr rifle is and what they are capable of. I have not gotten the impression that the idea of these VGW built V22's will shoot 0.1's @ 50 and 0.5's @ 100 all day is being conveyed. As a matter of fact I would call bull shit on anyone making that claim with any rimfire rifle especially a repeater. If you have shot much rimfire at all you will know the limiting factor is the ammo more so than the rifle shooting it (as long as it is quality rifle built by a competent gunsmith with quality components).

You mention that VGW guarantees 1 MOA. I honestly did not know they even had an accuracy guarantee, shows you how much I pay attention to that kind of stuff. But IMO the reason it is 1 MOA as opposed to a more true reflection of the accuracy these rifle are capable of is because most people have no clue about shooting rimfire and what it takes to actually shoot in the 0.1XX's. Not to mention the ammo is so widely varying and unpredictable, the 1 MOA is a safe margin for a wide variety of rimfire ammo.

What I have seen being conveyed and what I believe to be true is that these VGW built V22 rifles are the highest quality, reliable out of the box, most consistently accurate rimfire repeater that has EVER been offered by any company to date. In addition to that the icing on the cake is that VGW has thus far proven to be the gold standard for how a company should handle customer service. I completely understand that what I have just said is a very bold statement, but one I personally stand behind 100% and welcome any thoughts as to how I am mistaken. So with all that said, yes I agree there are quite a lot of Vudoo fanboys as of late and I am one (and proud of it). But I feel this is not the typical "I am a fanboy because I feel the need to justify my expensive purchase", but rather it is a "I am a fan boy because this company has seriously raised the bar to a level where no one else can even compete at this point in time".

Would you mind to point out to me why we should "pull our heads out of our a.. and show some critical thinking skills" with the VGW V22's because I am clearly missing something...

I’m sorry but when someone asks “I really would like a super accurate. 22, the thing is I don't shoot a lot of high power so I don't need it as trainer.”

And then the manufacturer replies to him by just posting two cherry picked groups shot at 100Y (0.468” 5 shot groups), I find that it’s pretty misleading.

So yeh, we should "pull our heads out of our a.. and show some critical thinking skills"

 

[Sieg]

I’m sorry but when someone asks “I really would like a super accurate. 22, the thing is I don't shoot a lot of high power so I don't need it as trainer.”

And then the manufacturer replies to him by just posting two cherry picked groups shot at 100Y (0.468” 5 shot groups), I find that it’s pretty misleading.

So yeh, we should "pull our heads out of our a.. and show some critical thinking skills"

What's your actual objective?

 

[Kevin1]

What's your actual objective?

I'm in the market for a very accurate and reliable 22lr repeater and would like to make an informed decision. At this point I'm leaning toward a Vudoo action custom fitted by master rimefire gunsmith with a button rifled barrel.

 

[Macca]

Geez Kev,
You’ve made your initial post & got some feedback.
I bet you’ve read every page of the vudoo,cz & tikka threads too,I did as well.
You’ve got the information,now just do it.Buy a V22 action & go for it.
If I were you,i’d buy a barrelled action,you may just be surprised.

 

[jbell]

I’m sorry but when someone asks “I really would like a super accurate. 22, the thing is I don't shoot a lot of high power so I don't need it as trainer.”

And then the manufacturer replies to him by just posting two cherry picked groups shot at 100Y (0.468” 5 shot groups), I find that it’s pretty misleading.

So yeh, we should "pull our heads out of our a.. and show some critical thinking skills"

Ok, makes sense I see where your coming from. What are your expectations out of a 22lr at 100 yards? Meaning how accurate do you expect one to be? Also why do you say that the example provided by the manufacturer of 2 slightly sub 1/2 MOA groups of 5 rounds at 100 yards is misleading? I have owned a few 22lr that could consistently shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 yards, the hard part is having the conditions to it.

I have only been personally going down this V22 road since late October last year when I met Paul at the ISC @ Ft. Benning and have since purchased 2 rifles from him with my brother purchasing a 3rd, they have all shown the potential to be capable of that level of accuracy. We are finally coming into spring here in Maine so I am looking forward to testing my rifle in warm weather. Based on what I have seen in the cold it should be right there with anything I have owned, and I am fortunate enough to have owned pretty much every precision repeater rimfire made (both custom and not).

 

[usafa77]

I ought to just send my rifle to the test facility. Trying to buy small amounts and lot test and then get back around to buy a larger quantity is like running uphill in sand.

I think Eley is at the Olympic training center in April. At least they have been in the past. You could take it there.

 

[WadeKow]

I'm in the market for a very accurate and reliable 22lr repeater and would like to make an informed decision. At this point I'm leaning toward a Vudoo action custom fitted by master rimefire gunsmith with a button rifled barrel.

What is your intended use for said rifle? What type of accuracy are you looking for? At what distance will you be shooting?

It sounds like you want the accuracy of a single shot custom built BR rifle from the likes of Calfee, Gorham, Penrod and so on in a repeater.

To achieve the accuracy the diehard ARA BR shooters are getting will take more than a custom rifle built by one of the best in the business. Be prepared to spend at least 10K when all is said and done. The rifle alone will be around half of that, then about 2 to 3K on the scope and rings, 1K for a Pappas one piece rest, $1700 per case of Eley Tenex once you've sent your rifle to KSS for testing, a few hundred for wind flags and the list goes on.

From what I've read Vudoo will have Shilen barrels available on their rifle builds in the very near future. Also when talking to Paul from Vudoo, he stated that they do slug there barrels and cut them at the choke point. My recommendation would be to give him a call, tell him what you're looking for, hear what they have to say and then take it from there. They are good people, the best costumer service I've experienced in the shooting world.

Best of luck with your build, I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[bmicek]

I'm in the market for a very accurate and reliable 22lr repeater and would like to make an informed decision. At this point I'm leaning toward a Vudoo action custom fitted by master rimefire gunsmith with a button rifled barrel.

Sounds like you know what you want to do. Get after it and post pictures after you’ve spent some time behind the rifle and let us know how it does. I think you’ll really enjoy the Vudoo action.

 

[flatland1]

I ought to just send my rifle to the test facility. Trying to buy small amounts and lot test and then get back around to buy a larger quantity is like running uphill in sand.

You're right about trying to buy lot samples, especially since Capstone became responsible for distribution of the SK/Lapua lines of 22RF ammo. You have to deal with one of their listed dealers in order to get samples of various lots, and then there has to be someone there that understands the whole lot-testing thing and the reasons for it. And even if you do work with someone who's good about getting test samples out to you, you've got to hope you get good conditions for testing in a timely manner, because there's no guarantee you'll still be able to buy quantity of whatever good lots you find unless you're quick about it.

That's why I sent my V-22 out to Mesa, but either my timing was off, or they just don't keep that much of a variety of the Lapua line of ammo around for testing. Dan did find a good lot of Center-X, but I'd wanted him to test with Lapua Pistol King to see if it's as good or better than SK Pistol Match. I'd also hoped he could test Polar Biathlon, but guess they didn't have any in stock. I was probably expecting too much for the measly $50 charge - after all, they paid the return shipping/insurance out of that too. They're sure as heck not making any money on that basis, and not making much if every single person who tests there buys at least two cases of their preferred ammo.

 

[Kevin1]

From what I've read Vudoo will have Shilen barrels available on their rifle builds in the very near future. Also when talking to Paul from Vudoo, he stated that they do slug there barrels and cut them at the choke point. My recommendation would be to give him a call, tell him what you're looking for, hear what they have to say and then take it from there. They are good people, the best costumer service I've experienced in the shooting world.

Best of luck with your build, I hope you find what you're looking for.

I didn't find anything mentioning slugging and cutting the barrels at choke point on their site or the 50+ page thread here (or maybe I missed it). On their site they mention fixed barrel length that would indicated that they don't do that.
But if they do and add a shilen barrel, I'll buy it.

 

[jbell]

What is your intended use for said rifle? What type of accuracy are you looking for? At what distance will you be shooting?

It sounds like you want the accuracy of a single shot custom built BR rifle from the likes of Calfee, Gorham, Penrod and so on in a repeater.

To achieve the accuracy the diehard ARA BR shooters are getting will take more than a custom rifle built by one of the best in the business. Be prepared to spend at least 10K when all is said and done. The rifle alone will be around half of that, then about 2 to 3K on the scope and rings, 1K for a Pappas one piece rest, $1700 per case of Eley Tenex once you've sent your rifle to KSS for testing, a few hundred for wind flags and the list goes on.

From what I've read Vudoo will have Shilen barrels available on their rifle builds in the very near future. Also when talking to Paul from Vudoo, he stated that they do slug there barrels and cut them at the choke point. My recommendation would be to give him a call, tell him what you're looking for, hear what they have to say and then take it from there. They are good people, the best costumer service I've experienced in the shooting world.

Best of luck with your build, I hope you find what you're looking for.

Not to be "that guy" but if WadeKow is correct in his assessment I have an example of that rifle for sale right now:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/mark-penrod-barreled-anschutz.6935046/#post-7637865

I suppose this is an advertisement of sorts, but isn't intended to be because I don't really care if the rifle sells or not because it is a killer shooter. If anything it is something to give you an idea of what can be, keeping in mind all these targets are shot by me (limiting factor) outside, prone off a bipod and a TAB rear bag so certainly not a upper steady rest. Also the ammo was more or less "generic" as it was a few different random lot numbers.

Keep in mind that I am selling this built Anschutz and keeping my Vudoo. Not because the Vudoo outshoots the Anschutz, I am not sure it will (I am hoping it proves to be at least close to as accurate), but rather because I like shooting the Vudoo better. I started the Anschutz build before the Vudoo's were released with the intention of having a dual use rifle: one that I can shoot prone off a bipod with a scope and also be able to sling up with irons and do some 50m prone or 3P work. For that application this build is perfect. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Please let us know what you decide on and after it is built let us know how it preforms! Also I would love for you to join in the 6X5 thread that we have going on...

 

[jbell]

I didn't find anything mentioning slugging and cutting the barrels at choke point on their site or the 50+ page thread here (or maybe I missed it). On their site they mention fixed barrel length that would indicated that they don't do that.
But if they do and add a shilen barrel, I'll buy it.

I was under the impression that the Bart's and Ace barrels are not taper lapped. So there is no point in slugging to determine the point to set the crown. Maybe I am wrong. The Ace and Bart's I have cleaned do not "feel" choaked, but I am also probably not paying that much attention to it either. Maybe Mike can chime in about this, I would like to know...

 

[Diver160651]

Kevin
The guys here are not shooting for extreme accuracy. They are using a 22 as a shorter distance PRS rifle.
The good 22 Rimfire actions all use Remington pattern triggers and as you already posted you can have Richard Gorhman set one up correctly for not alot of paper.
The best 22 repeaters are made by Bill Calfee then Richard Gorhman.
If your looking for a short-range trainer for PRS or NRL use what the top dogs in that discipline are using.
And I am surprised they are shooting in the 0.1s.
I read all the time about the 0.0s

Really for what started the re-birth of the 22LR craze and mothballed allot of our 223 trainers was the NRL22 and used as Lynn pointed out in the very first sentence.

For the NL22, as far as accuracy, we shoot a 1/4" stick at 25y and at 50y and 1/4" X at 50, by 100 the targets are generous. Most good 22s are going to be able to do this. You can win a match on a CZ, Savage etc. Although, I can't wait until they do stages with mag changes As a mater of fact, for pure score, you are seeing people buy Volquartsens, Kidds etc, because you will score better with a super light gun in the off hand stages and get more time by not having to work the bolt.. Again, for me the manual of arms thing is more important than shooting a couple extra hits, if your shooting positional matches with your centerfire.

I posted some realistic groups that came out of my Vudoo (post 15). They are very good for what they are, I have no idea what MOA, just looking at them there are not in the .1s or .0s.. By 100y, between the wind and ammo (NOT THE GUN) it is sub MOA, but has a higher MOA than at 50. Thats just the way it works not matter what 22 you shoot. By 200 yards the dope is almost exactly the same drop as 1000 for my match gun.. The wind a tiny bit more sensitive.. The real rub is I might not worry about a 1-2 mph wind on my match gun and just move into the wind.. with a 22 I have to hold off the target. And if I count all the shots it is NOT MOA..

I've seen plenty of BR 22 guys, and that is not for me.. Sure, might "one" shoot better than a couple guys rested up.. but they are not the top BR guys. It is nuts to think that all the tools the br guys are using, that we would/could with a FFP scope, repeater on a bipod, with just a rear squeeze bag, using non-uniformed stock ammo, no flags would shoot the same. 95% of the stuff is influenced outside the barrel and action at that point anyway..

Kevin - Paul also told me he cuts at the tight spot, just like my PCP, but it doesn't feel the same as my PCP when cleaning.. I'd call him..

All this said, my Vudoo is by far one of my best purchases and a real bargain for what it delivers...

BTW we split our NRL22 matches into three different local clubs and we are now only hosting it once a quarter. But the centerfire is still monthly. Shameless plug.. come out May 19th we have a 17 stage one day match along a hiking course (2-4 miles draw dependent) super fun.. We get quite a few Hide guys, but love to see more..

Please "Follow" and "Like" our Match on Facebook ~ we could use some just approved as an official PRS club!
https://www.facebook.com/AvenalTactical/

 

[WadeKow]

I didn't find anything mentioning slugging and cutting the barrels at choke point on their site or the 50+ page thread here (or maybe I missed it). On their site they mention fixed barrel length that would indicated that they don't do that.
But if they do and add a shilen barrel, I'll buy it.

I had talked to Paul about the exact lengths of their barrels, he said he couldn't give me that because they slug the barrel and every barrel is slightly longer or shorter do to where the choke point is. Unless I misunderstood him. Go right to the source, give them a call and ask for Paul. He will be more than happy to answer any of your questions.

From doing my research I decided to go with their Ace barrel but wanted it 22" so I could put a tuner on it( barrels between 22 and 25 are best for tuning according to Purdy) I had to wait a couple of months longer as they only had 20" at the time. The barrel is actually almost 23" long( which I'm very happy about as I didn't want it cut less than 22")I recieved my rifle Thursday and shot it yesterday for the first time. I had limited time and had 10 to 15 mph wind with gusts even higher. I sighted it in at 50 then shot 1 5 shot group at 50 and pushed out to 100. F class bipod, rear beanbag, sightron 45x45 and no flags. Here's a couple of pictures .15 for 5 shots at 50 and 10 shots at 100. When I got out to 100 with no flags I was just poking and hoping.

 

[Kevin1]

Not to be "that guy" but if WadeKow is correct in his assessment I have an example of that rifle for sale right now:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/mark-penrod-barreled-anschutz.6935046/#post-7637865

I suppose this is an advertisement of sorts, but isn't intended to be because I don't really care if the rifle sells or not because it is a killer shooter. If anything it is something to give you an idea of what can be, keeping in mind all these targets are shot by me (limiting factor) outside, prone off a bipod and a TAB rear bag so certainly not a upper steady rest. Also the ammo was more or less "generic" as it was a few different random lot numbers.

Keep in mind that I am selling this built Anschutz and keeping my Vudoo. Not because the Vudoo outshoots the Anschutz, I am not sure it will (I am hoping it proves to be at least close to as accurate), but rather because I like shooting the Vudoo better. I started the Anschutz build before the Vudoo's were released with the intention of having a dual use rifle: one that I can shoot prone off a bipod with a scope and also be able to sling up with irons and do some 50m prone or 3P work. For that application this build is perfect. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Please let us know what you decide on and after it is built let us know how it preforms! Also I would love for you to join in the 6X5 thread that we have going on...

He is somewhat correct in his assessment. I'd like a repeater that's reliable and as accurate as it can be. It won't be as accurate as a singlshot to allow reliability, but needs to be slugged and maybe even indexed. With good ammo I'd expect it to shoot in the low .2s. Lot testing might come later down the road.

Your rifle could do what I want and I might even consider it. I would probably prefer a more classic look though.

 

[Deep South Tactical]

I think the Shilen barrel would be a good idea. I built one for a customer on a Stiller 2500XR with a shilen ratchet rifling barrel. We went with a calfee 2 reamer. I was very impressed with it.

 

[WadeKow]

Kevin, I like you like to do my do diligents prior to spending my hard earned money. My original intent was to either buy a single shot lefthanded Anschutz 1913 barrelled action then send it off to be fitted into a custom built stock(no lefty stock available from them) or have Mark Penrod build me a rifle on a 2500x action(lefthanded action has been delayed on not yet available). After not wanting to wait months for either I decided to Google what other options were available for a lefty and stumbled across Vudoo. Not wanting a repeater I was prepared to pass on them until I found out what they were all about. I researched everything I could find about them and decided for my intended purpose they would fit the bill quite nicely(local fun yet taken seriously 100yrd br matches) I also like one stop shopping with several options(not easy to find for a lefty) I hope the information I provided helps you in your decision.

 

[jbell]

He is somewhat correct in his assessment. I'd like a repeater that's reliable and as accurate as it can be. It won't be as accurate as a singlshot to allow reliability, but needs to be slugged and maybe even indexed. With good ammo I'd expect it to shoot in the low .2s. Lot testing might come later down the road.

Your rifle could do what I want and I might even consider it. I would probably prefer a more classic look though.

Low 0.2XX's at 50 yards should easily be achieved with a quality built rimfire (**in good conditions**). That Anschutz I have can do that for sure, and thus far all 3 Vudoo's I have in my family (mine, my brothers, and my fathers) all have been showing that level of accuracy. I have shot many groups at 100 yards in the 0.2XX" but being able to repeat them over and over is damn near impossible (at least for me), the conditions have to be PERFECT and you had better be on your A game. Rimfire is my favorite thing to shoot because it is so humbling

 

[Kevin1]

What really made me create this thread is when I read this:

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/vudoo-or.6925683/



Lynn Jr says on post 18 “You also don't really pick a barrel length on a super accurate 22 you buy a blank and after slugging the bore for the tightest roundest point that is what determines your length.”



RAVAGE88 replies two posts later and posts the cherry-picked groups.



For me, it was a clear indication that they don’t slug/ cut their barrels at the tightest spot. If they did, it would be obvious that RAVAGE88 would have taken the opportunity to mention it in this post or the other 50+ page post on Vudoo.



Why don’t I call him? Because Verba volant, scripta manent which means spoken words fly away, written words remain.

 

[Sieg]

I'm thinking you really need to buy a one-off custom rifle.

Throwing dart after dart with your keyboard at a very good product and company is disappointing.

 

[Kevin1]

I'm thinking you really need to buy a one-off custom rifle.

Throwing dart after dart with your keyboard at a very good product and company is disappointing.

I’m not. All I’m saying is that it’s best trainer on the market but it’s not slugged and cut and isn’t anymore accurate than a factory anschutz. That’s it.

 

[Hoser]

You might want to buy benchrest action and have a gunsmith fit a Shilen Ratchet exactly how you tell him to fit it.

 

[Rthur]

I'm in the market for a very accurate and reliable 22lr repeater and would like to make an informed decision. At this point I'm leaning toward a Vudoo action custom fitted by master rimefire gunsmith with a button rifled barrel.

I'd like to see a complete version of what you are proposing.
Hang barrel by master rimfire gunsmith cut at slugged length and test against current versions to qualify the difference.
More than a little interested in the results.

R

 

[jbell]

I'd like to see a complete version of what you are proposing.
Hang barrel by master rimfire gunsmith cut at slugged length and test against current versions to qualify the difference.
More than a little interested in the results.

R

Look at the two rifles I have, the Anschutz is just that and my Vudoo is well a factory Vudoo. I know I don't have a lot of time behind the Vudoo and have only shot it in 30f air temps or lower but I am very satisfied with the results thus far. I am not holding my breath that it will be as accurate as my Anschutz that Mark Penrod installed a Benchmark 3 groove by slugging, indexing, setting head space to a very specific point, and chambering to touch the first driving band of Eley Match and Tenex (which is not as deep as he sets up his BR guns but after we talked about the intended use we determined this would be best and probably not degrade accuracy at all), he also used his favorite reamer for the Benchmark barrel. He also reworked the firing pin for optimal ignition. Again this is all done with me shooting so take the targets with a gain (or several) of salt, but I feel there is a benefit to the extra work of slugging, indexing, specific chambers and head space.

Now that said how much of a benefit is there really (between a rifle like these Vudoos and a purpose built rifle like my Anschutz)? If your shooting just decent ammo I am willing to bet you will not see any difference at all. If you shooting top end ammo like Center X, Exact, Eley Match, Eley Tenex but not lot specific you may very well notice a slight difference, maybe. If your shooting lot tested and sorted top end ammo I bet your going to notice a difference. But I bet the difference will be only apparent on those days when the wind is very favorable and your on your game, meaning it will go from damn good accuracy to shit that is almost hard to believe accuracy. I know because I have been down that road a few times. These two rifles I currently have are not the first ones that I have owned like this.

My point is unless your willing to shoot only the very best lot tested ammo, with a lot of super sensitive wind flags, and spend the time to learn to use the flags and learn to actually shoot for razors edge accuracy and dare I say install a tuner and take the time to tune it for the ammo and conditions you are making more of this process of slugging, indexing, and super specific chambering than there actually is. Please don't get me wrong, I still prefer to have it done if it an option. However if I found out right now that VGW dose not bother to do any of it & knowing how the 3 rifles I have personally seen shoot I will not loose any sleep and would not hesitate to spend my hard earned $ on another one if I so desired. I fell like the process (whatever it is) that VGW is doing to build their rifles is working pretty well. But that is just me talking...

 

[Rthur]

Look at the two rifles I have, the Anschutz is just that and my Vudoo is well a factory Vudoo. I know I don't have a lot of time behind the Vudoo and have only shot it in 30f air temps or lower but I am very satisfied with the results thus far. I am not holding my breath that it will be as accurate as my Anschutz that Mark Penrod installed a Benchmark 3 groove by slugging, indexing, setting head space to a very specific point, and chambering to touch the first driving band of Eley Match and Tenex (which is not as deep as he sets up his BR guns but after we talked about the intended use we determined this would be best and probably not degrade accuracy at all), he also used his favorite reamer for the Benchmark barrel. He also reworked the firing pin for optimal ignition. Again this is all done with me shooting so take the targets with a gain (or several) of salt, but I feel there is a benefit to the extra work of slugging, indexing, specific chambers and head space.

Now that said how much of a benefit is there really (between a rifle like these Vudoos and a purpose built rifle like my Anschutz)? If your shooting just decent ammo I am willing to bet you will not see any difference at all. If you shooting top end ammo like Center X, Exact, Eley Match, Eley Tenex but not lot specific you may very well notice a slight difference, maybe. If your shooting lot tested and sorted top end ammo I bet your going to notice a difference. But I bet the difference will be only apparent on those days when the wind is very favorable and your on your game, meaning it will go from damn good accuracy to shit that is almost hard to believe accuracy. I know because I have been down that road a few times. These two rifles I currently have are not the first ones that I have owned like this.

My point is unless your willing to shoot only the very best lot tested ammo, with a lot of super sensitive wind flags, and spend the time to learn to use the flags and learn to actually shoot for razors edge accuracy and dare I say install a tuner and take the time to tune it for the ammo and conditions you are making more of this process of slugging, indexing, and super specific chambering than there actually is. Please don't get me wrong, I still prefer to have it done if it an option. However if I found out right now that VGW dose not bother to do any of it & knowing how the 3 rifles I have personally seen shoot I will not loose any sleep and would not hesitate to spend my hard earned $ on another one if I so desired. I fell like the process (whatever it is) that VGW is doing to build their rifles is working pretty well. But that is just me talking...

I figured someone on this forum would have first hand knowledge of this comparison.
Like you said without premium ammo and conditions it will be hard to qualify.
I have a MPR with stock barrel that does pretty well with center x but it's no match for the Vudoo
in accuracy or feeding/ejecting.
I understand this is only a 64 action and not the 54 versions.
For my pupose and needs it seems to be the perfect tool for the job.

R

 

[Lynn Jr]

Kevin.
Most sporters have a bulb on the barrels muzzle because a tuner isn't allowed.
They shoot the gun then cut it back in precise increments until best accuracy is achieved.
The best of the best know how to do this.
In your case your not limited by the rules so a tuner can be used.

Somebody mentioned Purdy in an earlier reply and if it's Tony he uses a math formula to set the tuner for resonance similar to a wind chime were specific lengths are used.
You run a cleaning rod down the barrel and send him a couple lengths and he will tell you what setting to use on your Harrels/Hoehn tuner.
I fully understand your goal.
I would stay away from any action with a pressed in barrel even though they shoot well.