Rifle Scopes wannabe 11B B4 looking for scope to practice for selection

L

LongSchott

Private
Minuteman
Jun 19, 2020
57
10
#1
Hey guys,
ive been on a journey to get ready for sniper tryouts to get my B4 designator (National Guard) and am looking to get a scope to practice with that will be as similar to what is used on the M110 SASS. it doesn't need to be exact but I want the adjustments and reticle to be as similar as possible. I believe we are switching over to the Leupold 5hd 3.6x18-44 but I am hoping to find a cheaper option as I'm a college student with very little money. Some of these questions are scope related and some are more tactically based. just looking for good info from guys who have graduated from the school and what you suggest.

Currently practicing with a .22 (TCR22) twice a week and an AR15 w/ iron sights every other week (ammo is impossible to find) The goal is to practice range estimation, wind estimation, and all the fieldcraft related to using a standard-issue scope.

-Is there a cheaper scope I can use that replicates as close as possible to the Army's current M110 scope? (not m110A1)
-What reticle do I need to look for? Is TMR the only option?
-What do you suggest to practice for the school that would help a lot (fieldcraft or shooting)
- Any suggestions on practicing for estimating distance?
- What is today's sniper school like in terms of events and what i should prepare for?

Id like to keep my budget under 1400 if possible

I really am looking for as much information from you guys as possible so please just lay it on me
 
#3
I’d just work on the fundamentals of shooting. Being able to group well with a gas gun is a lot less forgiving than a 20lb bolt gun with a 10oz trigger (You hear @lowlight talking about it all the time). If your unit has a Sniper Section get with them and pick their brains about it and maybe get some range time with them. If you’re unit can put on stalk lanes for you too that would be very helpful, so you can figure out what works before getting down there. The guys that show up having practiced these prior were way ahead of the curve. I wasn’t one of those guys haha.. good luck
 
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#4
Shooting is not what fails people

I would not be reinforcing bad habits I might have when it comes to shooting. I would want them to teach me correctly, if you have qualified enough with your service rifle to apply for Sniper School, you are on the road, but what I would be working on is,

Rule number 1, Cardio

I would be brushing up on my Land Nav

I would be practicing Observation,

There are things to do that will help you prepare for Sniper School that will not bite you, PT, Ruck Movement, which is all Cardio, and then the book parts that actually fail more people. The shooting part does not fail as many as you might think.
 
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#6
lowlight said:
Shooting is not what fails people

I would not be reinforcing bad habits I might have when it comes to shooting. I would want them to teach me correctly, if you have qualified enough with your service rifle to apply for Sniper School, you are on the road, but what I would be working on is,

Rule number 1, Cardio

I would be brushing up on my Land Nav

I would be practicing Observation,

There are things to do that will help you prepare for Sniper School that will not bite you, PT, Ruck Movement, which is all Cardio, and then the book parts that actually fail more people. The shooting part does not fail as many as you might think.
Click to expand...
The Cardio I am definitely taking to heart I'm working on my 5 mile time hoping to get it down to around 37minutes. Rucking ill focus on more I'm hoping to do it on Sundays and get the first 6 miles at a nice trot to make the last 6 miles more forgiving. Currently practicing with only 50lbs once I get my time down a bit ill move up the weight another 10.

Are there any good youtube sources for practicing observation? Unfortunately, my sniper section is located in a different part of the state than where I'm at so I don't have the opportunity to go pick their brains often.
 
#10
lowlight said:
Shooting is not what fails people

I would not be reinforcing bad habits I might have when it comes to shooting. I would want them to teach me correctly, if you have qualified enough with your service rifle to apply for Sniper School, you are on the road, but what I would be working on is,

Rule number 1, Cardio

I would be brushing up on my Land Nav

I would be practicing Observation,

There are things to do that will help you prepare for Sniper School that will not bite you, PT, Ruck Movement, which is all Cardio, and then the book parts that actually fail more people. The shooting part does not fail as many as you might think.
Click to expand...
^

Could probably miss almost every shot but you only get three chances for a go on the stalk.
 
#11
LongSchott said:
The Cardio I am definitely taking to heart I'm working on my 5 mile time hoping to get it down to around 37minutes. Rucking ill focus on more I'm hoping to do it on Sundays and get the first 6 miles at a nice trot to make the last 6 miles more forgiving. Currently practicing with only 50lbs once I get my time down a bit ill move up the weight another 10.

Are there any good youtube sources for practicing observation? Unfortunately, my sniper section is located in a different part of the state than where I'm at so I don't have the opportunity to go pick their brains often.
Click to expand...
Look up “Kim’s game”. Have your spouse/girlfriend/boyfriend set them up for you and start practicing. I’m sure the actual sheet you fill out is on the internet somewhere. You’ll play it often at school.

Observation isn’t so easy. Practice using your eyes to identify things out of place, take a closer look with bino’s, and only then confirm with spotting scope. You won’t have time to start with spotting scope, maybe not even binoculars. If you’re not getting 3-5 possibles with your eyes you’re probably not gonna find all the objects. Same when you go to binos, if you haven’t found 4-8 then you’re sucking. Not sure what the grading criteria is now, been 21 years since I did it but a guy I know down the road was an instructor until ‘17.
 
#12
Stalking failed the most people in my class followed by range estimation. Shooting is a breeze think we only lost 1 or 2 to the shooting qual.

You going to robinson or benning?
 
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#13
lowlight said:
Shooting is not what fails people

I would not be reinforcing bad habits I might have when it comes to shooting. I would want them to teach me correctly, if you have qualified enough with your service rifle to apply for Sniper School, you are on the road, but what I would be working on is,

Rule number 1, Cardio

I would be brushing up on my Land Nav

I would be practicing Observation,

There are things to do that will help you prepare for Sniper School that will not bite you, PT, Ruck Movement, which is all Cardio, and then the book parts that actually fail more people. The shooting part does not fail as many as you might think.
Click to expand...

For just about everything mil related or paramilitary my first suggestion is PT.

(By "mil related" I dont mean like Coast Guard, Navy, Air Force or Space Force unless its SEAL, pilot or PJ)
 
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#14
Huskydriver said:
Stalking failed the most people in my class followed by range estimation. Shooting is a breeze think we only lost 1 or 2 to the shooting qual.

You going to robinson or benning?
Click to expand...


If my information is correct ill be going to Robinson contingent on passing the selection my unit will put on. They are revamping my units section so it's going to be a cardio and shooting-based selection process after which we would be put into the section to train up for Robinson. I'm looking to get a head start in some of the stuff I've never experienced.
 
#15
Yes I was going to say get selected first. Fuck buying a scope for selection purposes. Dont try to impress the cadre at selection with what you "know". Listen to the tasks and perform them well. Out PT every one of the other candidates. Be confident but humble. They are going to ask you why do you want to be a sniper. Find out why you do. Then share why. Most candidates are blindsided by that question and give answers that reflect poorly upon them. Good luck and PT!
 
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#16
I hear what you are saying however this forum is not about PT so I focused my question on fieldcraft and shooting preparation. I am using the Ranger Prep book for its running plan and feel comfortable in that aspect of the course. I am trying to show up with a good foundation in shooting to set myself up for success and since the only optic I've used is an ACOG I figured it would be beneficial to get time behind some real glass. Believe me, I understand that I need to get past the selection first but I don't plan on failing so I'm trying to use my time in as an advantageous way as possible. Id rather show up more prepared than less prepared.
 
#19
Individual fitness prep is huge.
Listen to what these guys are saying.
Your physical preparation will support your mental preparation, and vice versa.
Cross eyed howler monkeys can be taught to shoot.
Hope you enjoy hot and stinky ball bags, because that's going to be the best of some very shitty environments.
Whip Me
Beat Me
Fuck Me.

Enjoy!
 
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#20
Yea, I concur. They will help your shooting, and show you everything, but they will NOT help you on ruck marches, land nav, or your memory. (keep in memory games) You already know the stalk no-gos a lot of joes.
Head math is another one. Sure you have 34 calculators but how do you know what to punch in? Head math isn't the only factor though; you have to do head math with no sleep and hungry. Most people can do head math bright and fresh with a nice civilian breakfast in their dining room. That won't be you lol.
 
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#21
Find an older side-focus 10X Super Sniper, either mil or quarter-minutes. Might cost you $350. You can use it on .22 or AR.

Very simple, basic glass.

Several hurdles to clear in sniper school. None impossible. It is meant to train folks with practical soldier field experience to do basic sniper tasks and missions. If you don't have basic soldiering and field skills down you will face some challenges. There's not a whole lot of time for the school to train you on basics, and the tasks, conditions, and standards do a good job of eliminating folks who aren't ready.

Of course there are always subjective calls and reindeer games by the instructors, but the objective grading is most often enough to cut those who wouldn't survive or meet mission standards downrange. Camp Robinson's cadre has a real depth of experience.
 
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#22
Thank you guys ill be contacting some of my buddies to go get some more in depth land nav practice and a ruck training schedule set up. I also will be checking out those Kim games. I appreciate the extra input. I will double down on the cardio and strength training as well. Head math worries me a bit lol I'm a history major for a reason haha.
 
#23
LongSchott said:
lol I'm a history major for a reason haha.
Click to expand...
Nobody cares -- especially the enemy. Take it seriously before you make the effort and investment, otherwise just do it because it's interesting.

What state are you in? Highpower rifle is an excellent way to learn how to really use an M4 / M16 with an ACOG-style scope and how to read winds. Several state teams and clubs have loaner equipment and can get you discounts on ammunition components. The best thing they offer is shooting advice and tips.
 
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#26
LongSchott said:
I hear what you are saying however this forum is not about PT so I focused my question on fieldcraft and shooting preparation. I am using the Ranger Prep book for its running plan and feel comfortable in that aspect of the course. I am trying to show up with a good foundation in shooting to set myself up for success and since the only optic I've used is an ACOG I figured it would be beneficial to get time behind some real glass. Believe me, I understand that I need to get past the selection first but I don't plan on failing so I'm trying to use my time in as an advantageous way as possible. Id rather show up more prepared than less prepared.
Click to expand...

Nobody plans on failing... when I went to Ranger school, everybody wants to focus on reading the handbook and learning patrols, and then wonder why they fail pushups or land nav. I've never been to sniper school, but maybe take the advice of the posters who have and focus on what they say is actually important. Sounds like the time you want to spend behind a scope might be better spent elsewhere.
 
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#27
Sent PM with info.
Study the Manual, build Ghillie Suit, find a local mentor that has first hand experience, and invest time into understanding it all. The course does not ask you to do anything that you cannot do (unless you can't pass the APFT test).
Remember the fundamentals of shooting- Breathe, Relax, Aim, (gently) Squeeze the Trigger.
 
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#28
The advice wasn't ignored it was recieved prior to the poster by outside sources. I was focusing my post on one aspect of the school, that was my mistake im not trying to discount anyone's advice or experience.
 
#29
Just to update I was able to get one of my buddies who was a police sniper to help mentor me on the head math and tactical level stuff (he was Army as well but not an Army sniper) I've got another mentor to help solidify the other more military-centric tactical skills for the test (landnav). I appreciate everyone's input!
I talked to some guys in my units sniper section and they suggested practicing with a tremor 3 I guess in anticipation for the Mil-Grid reticle we are supposed to move over too, (they still use the old mk4 Leupold's) @lowlight I really enjoyed your article on the mil-grid system, is the system going to be only available to the military or will it be an option on scopes on the civilian market?
 
#30
Another update.

Today I graduate Sniper School class 24-001. I appreciate everyone's input. Selection was way more PT driven, but the shooting practice helped a lot. The school house wasn't nearly as PT oriented as I envisioned and there was some seriously good shots here. The majority of students like myself spent about 2 years in a section before coming here. Shoot in nixed somewhere around 10 people from getting in but we had so many walk ons that we started with a full class. Fantastic instructors! my partner and I came together and both passed. The only go home event I had issue with was Day RTE which I G2ed. All other Go-Home events I had a first time go on.

Fantastic experience and am really thankful for everyone's advice. Our class is the one on vintage rifle shooters club that got to shoot the foreign weapons recently and Rob Ski did a phenomenal job teaching us in the classroom about enemy weapons that we may come across. I've got about 3 years left in my current contract and am looking to go for another school before my time is up. I'd appreciate any suggestions, I'm kicking around the idea of pathfinder, air assault, and mountain warfare.

Again, thank you everyone for your advice and to anyone else looking to go down this path, it's long as fuck and PT is what gets you in to a section, personality is what keeps you there, and tactical proficiency is what gets you through the school house, but you need all of it to be a success on the path.

Again, this community was a huge help in understanding things before even coming out here. And my Unit did an incredible job in training us despite a lot of bullshit during covid.
 
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#31
LongSchott said:
Another update.

Today I graduate Sniper School class 24-001. I appreciate everyone's input. Selection was way more PT driven, but the shooting practice helped a lot. The school house wasn't nearly as PT oriented as I envisioned and there was some seriously good shots here. The majority of students like myself spent about 2 years in a section before coming here. Shoot in nixed somewhere around 10 people from getting in but we had so many walk ons that we started with a full class. Fantastic instructors! my partner and I came together and both passed. The only go home event I had issue with was Day RTE which I G2ed. All other Go-Home events I had a first time go on.

Fantastic experience and am really thankful for everyone's advice. Our class is the one on vintage rifle shooters club that got to shoot the foreign weapons recently and Rob Ski did a phenomenal job teaching us in the classroom about enemy weapons that we may come across. I've got about 3 years left in my current contract and am looking to go for another school before my time is up. I'd appreciate any suggestions, I'm kicking around the idea of pathfinder, air assault, and mountain warfare.

Again, thank you everyone for your advice and to anyone else looking to go down this path, it's long as fuck and PT is what gets you in to a section, personality is what keeps you there, and tactical proficiency is what gets you through the school house, but you need all of it to be a success on the path.

Again, this community was a huge help in understanding things before even coming out here. And my Unit did an incredible job in training us despite a lot of bullshit during covid.
Click to expand...
California christ is Cpl Christ stupid autocorrect
 
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