Warner Flatline 30cal Loads - All cartridges

[jbailey]

I'm copying and pasting the Warner Flatline 30cal load thread from the Scout forum to get it going here. Here is the copied stuff below, plus I have updated 198gr 308 load below.


Warner FlatLine 30cal Loads - All cartridges
01/12/2017

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Hello folks,

I'm starting a thread for folks to post all loads for any of the Warner Flat Line 30 cal bullets (more info here: warner-tool.com/flat-line-projectiles ... plus Lowlight has done a ton of reviews of the 160gr and 180gr on elsewhere on this forum). I want to open this up to all cartridges in .30cal, kind of a one stop spot for any .30cal Flat Line load.



To help organize it, I was hoping posters could post two bits of information out front first: the cartridge and which grain bullet. Then post the other stuff normally put on these load pages: powder charge, brass type, primer type, OAL, etc. Any chrono and/or precision info is nice as well.



Thanks much - hope this helps folks. For bullets this expensive, any help is valuable.

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308 Winchester

180gr Flatline





!!!!DO NOT USE THIS LOAD AT SHORT ACTION OALS - NOTE MY LONG OAL!!!!



Rifle: Patriot Valley Arms built 308, with a custom chamber on a Big Horn Long Action.

Barrel: Hawk Hill, 1 in 9 twist (yes, 30cal in 9 twist). Something like 30" long.

Rounds down barrel: <20 (yes, just breaking this in - I took delivery two weeks ago).



Brass: Lapua Palma

Primers: CCI 41 (yes, small rifle primer - the Palma brass has a small primer)

Powder: 2000MR

Bullet: 180gr Flatline of course.

OAL: 3.140" (<------- SPECIAL NOTE ----- BE AWARE OF THIS LONG LOADING -- THIS IS COMING OUT OF A LONG ACTION, MAGAZINE LENGTH FROM 300 WINMAG AI MAG)



Average Velocity (Magneto Chrono)



47.0 grs: 2834

47.5 grs: 2860

48.0 grs: 2887

48.5 grs: 2915



No pressure signs - nice round primers, no ejector shine, no bolt lift issues.

Standard Deviation: 2-4 fps

Group size: all 0.5" or better at 100yds.

Here is picture of the load to the above OAL.

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Tag; can't wait to launch these in my 300wsm

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jbailey1 wrote:
Barrel: Hawk Hill, 1 in 9 twist (yes, 30cal in 9 twist).



Was this intentional? To build specifically to run these bullets? ​

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One thing to keep in mind. I wanted to try the FlatLines in a .300 Norma. Be advised that if your rifle is throated for the heavy Berger's you may not have any luck. To switch to the FlatLines meant a huge jump to the rifling. They may be somewhat jump insensitive but not that much. Accuracy was not good. This is not a rip on their bullets at all as they are some of the prettiest projectiles I've ever seen. I'm still debating spinning up a second barrel throated just for them. I need to get a hold of Dan to save if he can help me with that one of these days.

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SHMikeinFl wrote:

jbailey1 wrote:
Barrel: Hawk Hill, 1 in 9 twist (yes, 30cal in 9 twist).



Was this intentional? To build specifically to run these bullets? ​

The twist was intentional for the Flatlines. The chamber was not. Its a normal 308 chamber, nothing fancy.

I'm working on the 198gr load in the 308 right now. Looking like 2700fps-ish. Load was shooting bug-holes, better precision than the 180grs. Will have more as I get it.

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How far off the lands for the 198s

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Seandradamus wrote:
How far off the lands for the 198s​

Good Q... will have answer and some more details next week - more load testing this weekend.



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SeandradamusXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Warner FlatLine 30cal Loads - All cartridges
01/20/2017

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Thx I have some 198s I want to load up in my Norma mag
I was thinking about starting 5 or 10 off

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jbailey1XFirst Sergeant
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Re: Warner FlatLine 30cal Loads - All cartridges
01/25/2017

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308 Winchester

198gr Flatline



Power: 2000MR

OAL: 3.360" (putting the bullet appx 5thousandths off the lands)

MV avg (at 50*F):

44.0grs = 2547 fps

44.5 = 2574

45.0 = 2606

45.5 = no data

46.0 = 2663

46.5 = 2707

47.0 = 2735

47.5 = 2779



MV ES and SD was excellent - 2 to 10fps differences across all groups.



Precision was excellent = less than 0.5" groups (vs the 180s which I couldn't get to consistently shoot this well)





No serious pressure signs, although the 47.5gr group was starting to show a flattened primer - however, this was minor. I'm going to call it the top end of the safe charges, although I imagine 48.0 would probably be safe (and over 2800).



A 308 sending a 198gr bullet with a G1 BC of 0.855 at 2750fps - that ain't too bad.... shots with less wind deflection than a 208gr Amax doing 3000fps

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308 Winchester

180gr Flatlines



I gave the 180 Flatlines a run in my SAC rebarreled/trued FN SPR - 26" 10 twist .308 throated for 185 Juggernauts. I have settled on the 185 Hybrids, but wanted something that would run with 6.5s if I single load, hence the flatlines.

I haven't had much luck with solids in the past, but was happily surprised with the performance of these. Decided on stout loads of CFE223 for the velocity, with the understanding that I will have to tune them for temperature.

I ended up at a COL of 3.239" (.010 off of lands), 48.7gr CFE, average velocity of 2,888 @ 75 degrees F. Right now I'm at exactly 7 mils @ 1000 yards.

No pressure signs on brass or bolt lift, but Quickload tells me i'm in the nuclear zone. I don't expect long brass life with this load, but no issues with my current set of Lapua at 9x fired. I'll definitely have to revisit in the summer and take em down a bit.

Accuracy was beyond my expectations, results from testing below. Since I had only 50 to play with, I went with 3 and 4 shot groups in working up the load.



This was my best 100 yd group: (I had a couple others in the .3s, the OCW scatter nodes opened up to about .7)

[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo Flatline 1_zps43l6lxhz.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i148.photobucket.com\/albums\/s22\/smcaruana\/Flatline%20180s\/Flatline%201_zps43l6lxhz.jpg"}[/IMG2]





300 yard 4 shot group (I'm pretty sure I dropped that one). This was a .9 mil up adjustment @ 300





[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo Flatline 3_zpsneyxtqmo.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i148.photobucket.com\/albums\/s22\/smcaruana\/Flatline%20180s\/Flatline%203_zpsneyxtqmo.jpg"}[/IMG2]





Magnetospeed capture on final load (4 shots). Yes I know 4 shots isn't statistically relevant, but it was the first time getting a 1.0 SD for me! Gotta celebrate the wins



[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo 0129171554_zpsyzynbgvc.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i148.photobucket.com\/albums\/s22\/smcaruana\/Flatline%20180s\/0129171554_zpsyzynbgvc.jpg"}[/IMG2]





Only downside I can see at this point (in my rifle at least) is that they are marginally stable in a 10 twist, and BC drops to .323 according to the Berger Stability calculator. Changing twist rate to a 9 results in a 1.51 SG vs the 1.23 below. I didn't get a chance to test them at distance, so long range results remain to be seen. Plan on getting another box and getting them out to 1000.

This makes me wonder if the 160s might be better at long range in a 10 twist if they prove to be more stable.



[IMG2=JSON]{"alt":" photo stability_zpsdnuupena.jpg","data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i148.photobucket.com\/albums\/s22\/smcaruana\/Flatline%20180s\/stability_zpsdnuupena.jpg"}[/IMG2]</p

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would the 180's fit in the rem 700 short action factory internal magazine? or is it still bit too long?

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Petrov wrote:
would the 180's fit in the rem 700 short action factory internal magazine? or is it still bit too long?​

I think you'd want to go with the 160s. The 180s are 1.6" long, easiest the longest I've dealt with.

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Hmm. Thanks. I will get some once i run out of lapua 155gr scenars.
Does it play well with xbr 8208 or do i need a slower burning powder?
Sorry I am completley ignorant about solids.

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Petrov wrote:
Hmm. Thanks. I will get some once i run out of lapua 155gr scenars.
Does it play well with xbr 8208 or do i need a slower burning powder?
Sorry I am completley ignorant about solids.​

You could get any of the typical .308 powders to work I'm sure, but in my case I went for absolute max velocity, which you'll get from using CFE223 or 2000MR (although not sure about the 160s). Those bring their own problems though in my experience, such as being more temp sensitive, and the fact that you get best results from max loads. It's to the point where if I decide to take these to a class, I might have to formulate a morning cool weather load, and an afternoon warm load if the temp swings are pretty severe. Bit of a pain in the ass, but worth the gains in my opinion. I'm getting roughly 125+ more fps than the max Varget loads I worked up to.

Its like the race car analogy. They are tuned for top performance at the expense of engine life, more maintenance, etc. Same thing here. If I had my druthers though, I would run them in a .300 or equivalent so you don't have go such high pressure to get the same speed.

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Remember the "Tortise and the Hare " , Hah !

I'm planning on the 160s with 8208XBR as this powder may be lacking in velocity but the temperature stability & SDs I get with it are the best so far !

If only CFE223 was as temp stable .

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Awesome data there; can't ask for better SD's than that! Keep in mind that QL is not friendly to solids with its default settings. I have not put my thumb on it entirely, but I have entered many Flatline loads that I know are perfectly safe only for QL to yield sky high pressure. QL is always on the high side of pressure and the low side of velocity regardless. I believe this to be a result of conservative burn rates with regard to the powder file data. The key, I believe, is to adjust the initial start pressure factor, which should be about 1/4 to 1/3 of the default setting. I know for a fact that our solids do not have the same initial starting pressure as jacketed pills. This helps, but doesn't get you all the way there on the pressure graph. I'm sure that someone who is more versed in QL can chime in and educate us all on this.

Regardless, primer condition and bolt lift are your best pressure indicators. Ladders tests are always recommended to find the top of the pressure curve. If the primers are flat but not pierced, and the bolt is getting sticky, you know you are about there at the top end for the powder used.

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DanWarner wrote:
Awesome data there; can't ask for better SD's than that! Keep in mind that QL is not friendly to solids with its default settings. I have not put my thumb on it entirely, but I have entered many Flatline loads that I know are perfectly safe only for QL to yield sky high pressure. QL is always on the high side of pressure and the low side of velocity regardless. I believe this to be a result of conservative burn rates with regard to the powder file data. The key, I believe, is to adjust the initial start pressure factor, which should be about 1/4 to 1/3 of the default setting. I know for a fact that our solids do not have the same initial starting pressure as jacketed pills. This helps, but doesn't get you all the way there on the pressure graph. I'm sure that someone who is more versed in QL can chime in and educate us all on this.

Regardless, primer condition and bolt lift are your best pressure indicators. Ladders tests are always recommended to find the top of the pressure curve. If the primers are flat but not pierced, and the bolt is getting sticky, you know you are about there at the top end for the powder used.​

Thank you for your input! Interestingly enough, according to Quickload, here is what the suggested default start pressures should be for different bullets:

Jacketed 3625

Solid soft brass 1800

Solid copper 6525

FMJ hard core 6625

So that doesn't make much sense w/ the solid copper number being double vs jacketed. You are spot on that it doesn't correlate correctly. I've seen pressure signs in much lower pressure numbers with other loads, so I brought it to 1000 and that seems to make more sense with the numbers.

With respect to the stability figures, would you recommend trying the 160s given my 10 twist? I'd like to run the 180s just because of the much higher BC, and the fact that they are accurate in my rifle. I'm guessing the only real way to know is to test them both side by side at 1,000+

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Your chart says that you are shooting in 70 degree weather at sea level, correct? There are a couple of things that come into play with the stability. The first is twist. Obviously, we recommend 10 as a minimum for the 180's. You can certainly go faster, but certainly not slower. There are occasions where advertised twist rate is not exactly what the barrel is. This is apparent, all be it in small variances, in some button rifled barrels. So you may end up with 10.1 for example. Doesn't happen much, but does happen. This certainly does not play in your favor if it is the case. You can check it with a cleaning rod and tape measure. Another factor is DA and temperature. The lower you get in elevation and the colder the temperature, the less stable your bullet will be. 70 degrees at sea level should yield something greater than 1000 on the DA scale I'm guessing, so that should not be hindering you at all. So aside from barrelling to a faster twist, trying the 160's certainly won't hurt you. Just think how fast you can run them; that increase in velocity will help make up for the lower BC to some extent. A side by side test will certainly be proof.

 

[jbailey]

Follow up from me on my 198gr Flatline load in 308.

Finalized the load:
its 47.0gr of 2000MR, in the Lapua Palma brass, OAL 3.360", CCI #41 primers.

Doing 2750fps from my 30" Hawk Hill 8.7 twist. Shooting bugholes and MV SD/ES under 10fps. Supersonic at over 2000yds in most D.A.s! Will shoot inside of any Berger bullet for wind deflation at reasonable MVs ...

 

[jbailey]

Another update from me-

198gr Flatline launched at 2750fps is tracking well with 0.78 G1 BC and 0.385 G7 BC that Josh provided to me. This is less than the published numbers because the published numbers are based on a load that is 300fps faster at the muzzle. Very impressive on a wind deflection and long-range precision results.

My only issue - they don't produce a lot of splash on steel...

 

[christopher.dow]

I took my Flatline 160 load out to 1440 in the class @Lowlight taught this weekend. I worked up to his load (44.8g of 4895) and had already chronographed it at 2852/30ES/7.3 SD over 25 rounds. I took it all the way out to 1440 from my 26” Shilen 1:10 barrel. There were a couple of zingers when I was gathering DOPE from 100-1000 yards—my Hornady auto loader may need a second check on weights.

@TacticalDillhole was spotting me while I was getting DOPE, and he kept saying, “Dude, that’s a 6.5”.

I love these things. They’re a little pricey for short range, but they work!

 

[BravoXray]

I took my Flatline 160 load out to 1440 in the class @Lowlight taught this weekend. I worked up to his load (44.8g of 4895) and had already chronographed it at 2852/30ES/7.3 SD over 25 rounds. I took it all the way out to 1440 from my 26” Shilen 1:10 barrel. There were a couple of zingers when I was gathering DOPE from 100-1000 yards—my Hornady auto loader may need a second check on weights.

@TacticalDillhole was spotting me while I was getting DOPE, and he kept saying, “Dude, that’s a 6.5”.

I love these things. They’re a little pricey for short range, but they work!

I know this is an old thread but I'm just curious what brass you used.

 

[GBMaryland]

I’m curious if anyone has a successfully accurate velocity in 300WM with the 160gr FL bullets?

This is for a TRG42 11:1 so I need to use the 160s.

 

[Dogtown]

I helped a buddy come up with a load using those. Looking at my notes, he ended up 76gr N555 @ 3.59" COAL. Not sure how well they ended up shooting at distance though.

 

[GBMaryland]

I have to look up my records but I have a load using Winchester 300 win mag brass (new), and it did perform very well in intermediate distances. I haven’t had a chance to try to shoot to pass 1000 yards yet.

However that was about two years ago: I worked up that load and I wanted to get an idea of what velocities people were getting were they found that they were very accurate. In my latter test I went up in .5 gr increments and the difference between one load and the next I recall being very striking With regard to accuracy.