WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

[oldfatguy]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Well, I for one would contribute to the SH legal defense fund.

OFG

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

This whole site is about testing gear and opinions as well as every gun rag I have read. I would have to question their standing on this subject. I agree that it is a scare tactic and if I had to poney up some money for a defense fund I would be glad to. We spend big bucks on our gear and we depend on others opinions to steer us to and away from certain vendors and equipment. They suck...I know enough about them to stay away just by their lack of customer service. Those that make it in this business actually care about their clientele.

 

[Mike]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Bless you Frank for dealing with those idiots.

 

[Whit]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Frank,

Would it be OK to put a link to this thread on my wife's Facebook page? So more people can see how they conduct there business. Who knows they might decide to become members.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

So,

I just got off the phone with Robert Looney, and he and I sorted out part of this mess, and apparently, his details, although not 100% correct, were being used by someone to instigate in this thread.

Robert stood up, contacted me about this and assured me he was not the ndnboy71 who posted in this thread.

While he is in the service, he is not stationed in Quantico, is not a Corpsman, and was not the one posting to Sniper's Hide.

So, please make sure we stay away from mentioning him any in any way going forward.

Thanks,

 

[Kevlars]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

So... this just got more interesting...

 

[JCH]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jethro3898</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What could a lawyer possibly do other than ask you politely to remove the post so his client would leave him alone?
</div></div>

It's simple. They want all history of poor quality and customer service to go away, leaving them an untarnished record when someone searches for a TR review. They threaten to sue, it's likely snipershide.com would win, but if I'm Frank I'm not going to spend $50,000 in legal fees to prove a point and "win". All Frank would win is our praise and it'd cost him money to do so.

It's a strong arm tactic played every day by people with more money than talent.</div></div>

Sorry I thought in Civil cases the winning party got legal fees paid for by the losing side. Especially if the suit was baseless. Correct me if I am wrong. I'm no lawyer

 

[W54/XM-388]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

So somebody was stooping to identity theft from a military member to help cover their tracks while making posts to help out TR?

Sounds pretty evil.

 

[nzgrip]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

So they would rather spend 10x more on lawyers fees than do right by their customers. Just keep communicating back and forth with their lawyer, every email and phone call will cost them money.

 

[Megahoser]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dazza</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So they would rather spend 10x more on lawyers fees than do right by their customers...</div></div>
You can't fix douche.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Lawyer issue is dealt with, we can drop it.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So somebody was stooping to identity theft from a military member to help cover their tracks while making posts to help out TR?

Sounds pretty evil. </div></div>

Identify theft of a military member, the little old grandmother at the park, or the obnoxious next door neighbor. It's all equally low and dirty.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lawyer issue is dealt with, we can drop it. </div></div> OK, that's good to hear, but what about the actual rifle and its state of condition, repairs, and costs?

Has this been dealt with at all, yet?

 

[jff_stvns]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lawyer issue is dealt with, we can drop it. </div></div> OK, that's good to hear, but what about the actual rifle and its state of condition, repairs, and costs?

Has this been dealt with at all, yet?</div></div> My rifle is fixed thank's to Mark at Spartan, I ate $ 1450.00 to get it Spartan blessed. It's more money than should have been payed but I am not concerned, I just don't want any of you to follow in my foot steps. That is if you are referring to the original op post.

 

[Tempest 455]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Wow. I'm an avid drag racing fan and saw the same thing over and over a number of years ago w/ an engine builder. Regardless, the truth comes out and catches up with people.

 

[shankster..]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nraman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean the Nailer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lawyer issue is dealt with, we can drop it. </div></div> OK, that's good to hear, but what about the actual rifle and its state of condition, repairs, and costs?

Has this been dealt with at all, yet?</div></div> My rifle is fixed thank's to Mark at Spartan, I ate $ 1450.00 to get it Spartan blessed. It's more money than should have been payed but I am not concerned, I just don't want any of you to follow in my foot steps. That is if you are referring to the original op post. </div></div>

Glad to hear it's fixed.

 

[Killshot44]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

If you don't already, Frank, you <span style="text-decoration: underline">need </span>to get an attorney on retainer.

Someone familiar with defamation cases would simply tell these people to eat shit.

And if anyone IS dicking with him personally, that does not come back to you or SH.

 

[i_rep]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Surely its possible to track the posting isp address to get to the bottom of whom the surrogate is/was. I mean it going to be common for someone that got caught with their hand in the cookie jar to say ..."it was not me!"

 

[shankster..]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

LL, has this TR legal issue under complete control. I'm still waiting for a formal response from TacticalRifles.net.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Why? The injured party took care of the rifle himself. An Internet forum is not a venue for a "formal" response anyway. Three mouse clicks away there are people posting up about all manner of silly bullshit, from bleeding rectums to questions about why bullets are pointy.

This isn't a friggin civil court run by LL.

Sometimes the lack of a response IS the response. Especially in the business world. And, yes, it usually means fuck off jackass

 

[Graham]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JCH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry I thought in Civil cases the winning party got legal fees paid for by the losing side. Especially if the suit was baseless. Correct me if I am wrong. I'm no lawyer </div></div>That's the British Rule, not the American Rule. Here both sides pay their own fees unless there is a statute that says otherwise. If the suit is frivolous sanctions may be applicable to both the party and the attorney who filed it on his behalf.

 

[Swift]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why? The injured party took care of the rifle himself. An Internet forum is not a venue for a "formal" response anyway. Three mouse clicks away there are people posting up about all manner of silly bullshit, from bleeding rectums to questions about why bullets are pointy.

This isn't a friggin civil court run by LL.

Sometimes the lack of a response IS the response. Especially in the business world. And, yes, it usually means fuck off jackass

</div></div>

Their response was sent to Frank in the form of a formal C&D letter from their lawyer. If there's anything I've learned in business, it's avoid big companies with fancy brochures and high dollar legal teams; they don't pay em for nothin.

The OP also got nowhere via telephone. TR doesn't have to come on here and post an apology, but it would be nice to see a copy of an apologetic email taking responsibility or confirmation of correspondence with the OP; I agree they're not obligated to defend themselves to the hide, but they SHOULD BE obligated to the customer who tried several times to contact them using private and conventional methods first.

 

[KYS]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why? The injured party took care of the rifle himself. An Internet forum is not a venue for a "formal" response anyway. Three mouse clicks away there are people posting up about all manner of silly bullshit, from bleeding rectums to questions about why bullets are pointy.

This isn't a friggin civil court run by LL.

<span style="color: #CC0000">Sometimes the lack of a response IS the response. Especially in the business world</span>. And, yes, it usually means fuck off jackass

</div></div>

Prolonged silence on an issue can also them knowing they can't argue the facts in front of them, more or less it's an admission of guilt.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Can't argue with that. Or with the BearJew. Just clarifying that I have ZERO expectation of them answering "formally" here on the Hide. And that "nothing" IS a response. It's a very common response in fact.

It is quite possible that this tactic is actually the best alternative for them.

Vote with your mouth (tell your friends) and your money (buy elsewhere). TR won't be with us long if the principal's track record with other businesses here in Florida is any indication at all. And IT IS

 

[Micdalen]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

In a world of custom work, be it rifles, cars, boats, or anything, reputation is everything. I have made 100's pf custom part over the years, if a customer complained, I stepped up answered their concern or made it right. It only takes one bad part or experience to ruin a reputaion. With the internet it makes a bad situation even worse.

Tactical Rifles should of responded in defense of their product. Be it good or bad. Ignoring an issue only makes it worse in the long.

Yes we only have the OP's story. He voiced a concern to let everyone else know of his experience. 20 years ago, if you told your neighbor or a co-worker about a bad business experience or customer service it carried weight. The internet is the same way. However, in the days of big bucks business, it is easier to threaten with a lawyer and try to get it removed , than to make it right.

What I find odd, the money spent on a lawyer for defamation, is higher than the cost of their most expensive rifle. Spend 30 grand to make a bad review go away or drop 10 grand make it right and gain more customers. I don't want to hear on retainer crap. Permanent retainer fees are still costly, moreso than a custom rifle.

The truth of the matter, one bad review or problem with a custom rifle, can cost a custom builder tens of thousands of dollar in business. Especially when the problems are identified by a trusted source. Even if it is members of a forum. But Tactical Rifles could have turned this into a customer service goldmine in the long run. "We made it right or we paid for the repairs to be done to customers satisfaction." That simple actions would of said alot. the only thing I can see that would stop someone doing custom work, is if there are multiple problems floating around, and to set a precedent of that nature fixing one complaint would bring a downpour of other customers demanding the same treatment.

I feel sorry for those that are being threatened with slander,libel, and defamation. It is sad to think we have devolved into a society where we spend our money, and have to take the product we receive or else we get sued when we identify poor quality.

As shooters and consumers we place value on our firearms and our income. We want the best we can afford and when we drop an exceptional amount we expect a quality product for the funds spent. Are you going to spend 60k for a new vehicle that does nor run, a $1000 for a refrigerator that does keep your food fresh, or even 8 bucks for a value meal that is not cooked and cold. I know I will not, and I expect full value for money and to meet my standards, not to be told that is what we are giving you for your money.

 

[garey]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

How come there isn't a dedicated forum section just for "all-star" threads like this one? I'm always worried I might miss out on one of these intriguing funfests... Just a suggestion.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Just go into each sub-forum and sort on # of replies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How come there isn't a dedicated forum section just for "all-star" threads like this one? I'm always worried I might miss out on one of these intriguing funfests... Just a suggestion. </div></div>

 

[WildBill3/75]

Re: WARNING tacticalrifles.net my experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy shit, I think somebody with down syndrome could put together a rifle better than that. </div></div>

I agree, what complete crap workmanship.

Thanks for sharing the info with us all! I will never buy one of their rifles.

 

[Swift]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just go into each sub-forum and sort on # of replies.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: garey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How come there isn't a dedicated forum section just for "all-star" threads like this one? I'm always worried I might miss out on one of these intriguing funfests... Just a suggestion. </div></div> </div></div>

You can sort by replies?! Sweet Jesus thank God it's the weekend.

 

[Jaxdialation]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Yessir. And on the number of "looks"

 

[MarcS]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I guess the legal issues are not quite over with. I just got a threatening letter from their attorney demanding I take the post down from Youtube or they will sue me. Funny thing is I didn't put the video up LOL.

Marc

 

[justinbaker]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarcS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the legal issues are not quite over with. I just got a threatening letter from their attorney demanding I take the post down from Youtube or they will sue me. Funny thing is I didn't put the video up LOL.

Marc </div></div>


wow this is getting even more interesting

 

[gimpy]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

How can they rightfully demand that you take it down for showing the quality or lack thereof? Shouldn't they research who posted it before threatening people? Nothing says "stand up operation" like a little bullying...

 

[Whit]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I dont think they can make you take it off YouTube can they. Its not slander or anything. All you did was post a video on there piss poor rifle building.

TacticalRifles.net are nothing but a bunch of fucking bullies. All they are, are a bunch of crooks who use Lawyers to cover there ass.

I just edited it down. I am so pissed at them for trying to do this bull shit.

 

[RTK]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarcS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the legal issues are not quite over with. I just got a threatening letter from their attorney demanding I take the post down from Youtube or they will sue me. Funny thing is I didn't put the video up LOL.

Marc </div></div>

Now that is funny

 

[Guy Montag]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarcS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the legal issues are not quite over with. I just got a threatening letter from their attorney demanding I take the post down from Youtube or they will sue me. Funny thing is I didn't put the video up LOL.

Marc </div></div>


These bastards at TR truly have some nerve, unreal Marc.

 

[oldfatguy]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarcS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I guess the legal issues are not quite over with. I just got a threatening letter from their attorney demanding I take the post down from Youtube or they will sue me. Funny thing is I didn't put the video up LOL.

Marc </div></div>

Stupid is as stupid does. Aren't the original poster and site managers the only ones who can take it down?

OFG

 

[MosesTheTank]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

It's on YouTube twice. I wouldn't be shocked if it got taken down and popped up again and again like some nightmarish (for TR) game of whack-a-mole.

I'm am terribly curious, are there any members on here that have a build pending from Tactical Rifles? If so, are you sleeping very well?

I want to hear David Rooney come onto this site and let everyone know what pride he takes in his company and assure his customers that their pending rifles will be of the finest quality. I have had to eat crow more than once in my life and have found that the best thing to do when you fuck up is to stand tall and take it like a man. When you do that the punishment is far less, and sometimes non-existent (much to my surprise). I think I have built more trust with my own customers AFTER I screwed up, owned up, and just fixed the problem. And if you stand accused of something you feel is unjust, stand up just the same.

David, whatever the case I implore you to just grit your teeth and come forward. I know you're reading this.

 

[Unknown]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I had an issue of quality control with a different company. The short story is that my gunsmith was at the range before, and after the rifle came back from the builder. The builder lied about what they did to the rifle, which I though strange because they corrected the problem.

I guess they just didn't want to admit to a quality control issue, and rather than admit something got past them, they lied. With as many rifles as they build, I would expect the occasional problem, and they should have simply admitted the problem, fixed it and moved on.

Because they lied about what happened, I no longer trust them, so I don't buy from or recommend them any more.

My guess is that will be the end result of your experience too.

 

[Spock]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Wow, haven't checked the Hide for a while as you can see not many posts. I am glad I had the sense not to order a rifle from these guys. Very slick advertising, but after looking at there stuff and GAP you could see and "feel" a difference even from cyberspace, due to budget went instead and built a Savage FCP-K and dropped into one of Kyles XLR chassis. Couldn't be happier and looks like I dodged a bullet.
This is why this site is so good. You get real life experiances from guys who know their $hit. Not to mention this was some funny stuff!

 

[1kHIT]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

They (Tactical Rifles) do seem to have great ads, and over on GB, even used ones still go for a lot of $$$. Like others here, I'll probably steer clear of them now. Another good example of the value of this site - good to know about bad products / vendors.

 

[Inogame]

Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I think I see one in the PX:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...980#Post3609980

 

[Swift]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rdsii64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ndnboy71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the long run here is the fact: if you dont like the company dont buy it(and hundreds have so to brake that to you) if the company was so bad why are they still in business. as for those that are slamming me i have broad shoulders. i stand by my beliefs, and the 1000s of rounds i have fired thu my rifles. and those of you who dont believe my military service, my 4 tours in Iraq with the Navy riverine squadron 3 in al quim(4 miles fron the serian boarder) running assauilt boats on the tigris, euphratese and shat al arab rivers. and a tour on the iraqi oil platform one mile from the iraqi port of umm qusar. well i challenge you to stand up and put up. or sit down and shut up. </div></div>Slow your role shipmate no one questioned your service. Last I checked your resume doesn't come close to some of the folks who frequent this site. There are some folks here who are the real deal and if you look really hard you will find they are very quiet about their accomplishments unless its relevant to discussion. Maybe you should pass me that shovel. The crater you are digging is getting pretty funny </div></div>

That guy was taken care of some time ago as he defrauded a service member. Frank asked that we drop it and it'd behoove you to do the same.

 

[eod1286]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

this sounds like a load of bullshit


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rdsii64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ndnboy71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the long run here is the fact: if you dont like the company dont buy it(and hundreds have so to brake that to you) if the company was so bad why are they still in business. as for those that are slamming me i have broad shoulders. i stand by my beliefs, and the 1000s of rounds i have fired thu my rifles. and those of you who dont believe my military service, my 4 tours in Iraq with the Navy riverine squadron 3 in al quim(4 miles fron the serian boarder) running assauilt boats on the tigris, euphratese and shat al arab rivers. and a tour on the iraqi oil platform one mile from the iraqi port of umm qusar. well i challenge you to stand up and put up. or sit down and shut up. </div></div>Slow your role shipmate no one questioned your service. Last I checked your resume doesn't come close to some of the folks who frequent this site. There are some folks here who are the real deal and if you look really hard you will find they are very quiet about their accomplishments unless its relevant to discussion. Maybe you should pass me that shovel. The crater you are digging is getting pretty funny </div></div>

 

[Swift]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eod1286</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this sounds like a load of bullshit


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rdsii64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ndnboy71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the long run here is the fact: if you dont like the company dont buy it(and hundreds have so to brake that to you) if the company was so bad why are they still in business. as for those that are slamming me i have broad shoulders. i stand by my beliefs, and the 1000s of rounds i have fired thu my rifles. and those of you who dont believe my military service, my 4 tours in Iraq with the Navy riverine squadron 3 in al quim(4 miles fron the serian boarder) running assauilt boats on the tigris, euphratese and shat al arab rivers. and a tour on the iraqi oil platform one mile from the iraqi port of umm qusar. well i challenge you to stand up and put up. or sit down and shut up. </div></div>Slow your role shipmate no one questioned your service. Last I checked your resume doesn't come close to some of the folks who frequent this site. There are some folks here who are the real deal and if you look really hard you will find they are very quiet about their accomplishments unless its relevant to discussion. Maybe you should pass me that shovel. The crater you are digging is getting pretty funny </div></div> </div></div>

Are you kidding me? Read up 2 posts and read the fucking thread. The guy turned out to be a fake, assumed the identity of a service member, photos surfaced, and now out of respect for the real soldier, Frank asked us to knock off the personal attacks. He's been banned and will never read your post.

It continues to baffle me how many people are so eager to open their flaphole that they don't take the initiative to read and get the facts first.

 

[MarcS]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

I am still getting threatening emails from his lawyer demanding I take the video down. Just got one today saying they hope I have the budget for legal counsel because I'm about to be served. I thought I'd post here again to ask if any of you guys have received any similar letters, and of course bring this back to the top of the first page

Marc

 

[Bradu]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

What is there to serve you papers over? The video is showing things wrong with the original build, it's not like you are making shit up.

 

[MarcS]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

More importantly I did not post the video and I have no control over it.

Marc

 

[Timl]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

This is the exact reason the hide is so valuable. I spent almost 2 years saving up money for a custom and during that period I spent a lot of time on this site gaining knowledge on what builders had the best reputations. I ended up with a Surgeon - not because they are better than everyone else - but they happened to have what I wanted in stock (rare occurrence). I can say without a doubt that I would have been happy with any of these builders: GAP, LA Precision, APA, Tac Ops, KMW, Gradous, Black Ops, PCR, and Spartan. Thank you to all of the above builders for being a part of the hide.

 

[clj94104]

Re: WARNING ~ tacticalrifles.net ~ My experience

Marc, I cannot believe you were able to salvage that rifle as you did. I hope you don't have to deal with any aggravation with the courts as mentioned above because they do shitty "custom" work. You're GTG in my book.

Let this be a lesson to people thinking about fucking your customers, stand behind your work or you may get a bad reputation in what is a relatively close knit community.