WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

#451
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? </div></div>
This whole shit storm is because most read, want was never there in the first place, based upon their predetermined opinion.

Show me where I backed TR anywhere here, or other places,... ever? I was looking for the true story, not the one most were basing their key strokes on.
Looking at a video means nothing to me, I've seen sticks that were 200% eye candy that would not hit a bull in the ass at 100yds no matter who was driving it. Then I've also seen an owned a $600.00 POS that would drill with a half ass monkey like me driving it.
 
#452
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I have to wonder why GF is getting piled on when he is only trying to add balance to the discussion. He didn't call anyone a liar or call into question anyone's veracity.
I also wonder why no one has responded to my experience with TR which was good and they did the right thing to fix a mistake.
Just seems odd.
Carry on and don't flame me for sharing my thoughts unless it just makes you feel better or more righteous...

Jim St.Charles
 
#453
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Gun rags will never have a bad review, we know that. My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and everything is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. The fan boys piled up like chickens in hot weather to the point where nramans first post in this thread was bankable w/o question.
</div></div>

No fan boy here but I know Marc personally have have ZERO doubt that the rifle was exactly as shown/described in the video. </div></div>
Show me where I questioned that?
 
#454
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Boring.jpg
 
#455
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to wonder why GF is getting piled on when he is only trying to add balance to the discussion. He didn't call anyone a liar or call into question anyone's veracity.
I also wonder why no one has responded to my experience with TR which was good and they did the right thing to fix a mistake.
Just seems odd.
Carry on and don't flame me for sharing my thoughts unless it just makes you feel better or more righteous...

Jim St.Charles </div></div>
Agenda's, with a dick contest thrown in, would be my guess.
Nothing about the truth, is interesting enough for many these days. Make a free speech statement, but when questioned about the facts, dog pile the weak and move on. Just the latest trend, shame it's came here. Was not like that years back.
Frank has to walk a fine line that's a given, but old guys like me don't take everything at face value. That is how we grew old, question's and the ability to read between the lines, and separate fact from agenda.
 
#456
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? </div></div>
This whole shit storm is because most read, want was never there in the first place, based upon their predetermined opinion.

Show me where I backed TR anywhere here, or other places,... ever? I was looking for the true story, not the one most were basing their key strokes on.
Looking at a video means nothing to me, I've seen sticks that were 200% eye candy that would not hit a bull in the ass at 100yds no matter who was driving it. Then I've also seen an owned a $600.00 POS that would drill with a half ass monkey like me driving it. </div></div>

Wait, lets keep some consistency on what your issue is here.

Apparently in the world of gunfighter, anyone reading this forum to learn about shooting is a cheeto eating ass clown, or some such. Yes, that means you.

Apparently in the world of gunfighter, the fact that someone takes time to get to a point where they discover there are real issues with a platform, means that the issues arent there, or are the fault of the end-user. Apparently, either you discover them in thousands of rounds in the first month, or you and your stick are shit, and you really cant complain about anything anyway, so dont bother.

Apparently in the world of gunfighter, who says "who needs a video, what happened to the word of the smith being good enough", out of the other side of his mouth, apparently a video is also useless because he can only see the cosmetics and the word of the highly regarded smith in the video explaining why what is being shown is a problem is not good enough?!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This whole shit storm is because most read, want was never there in the first place, based upon their predetermined opinion.</div></div>
This, is where reading comprehension come into play. Shit storm stage 1 was because of shit work in the first place. Shit storm stage 2 was because of the way the customer was treated. Shit storm stage 3 was because a surrogate was sent in public and attempted to use deceit to blame the customer and the rifle and refute the issue, including lying about what he had done with other rifles by the same maker. He was later outed. Shit storm stage 4 was because LL got harassed with empty threats, etc, by legal counsel who apparently did not advise their client that its only actionable in the US when its a lie.

And the last two pages of this has been because a high post count guy who has been around in this community a long time got a bug up his ass, and decided to pontificate that the audience on this site are assholes. That none of us are apparently as qualified as he is to express our opinions. That this entire site has gone down hill because people are astounded at the initial quality issues and subsequent behavior of a surrogate in this thread. And that his way is the only possible way that anyone should ever be allowed to express dissent or to share thier experience of a poorly crafted rifle.

Because, as we now know, if you arent like gunfighter, going out every day and putting bullets through your gun (you know, because you work, have a life, have a family, and this is a hobby) you apparently are not worth having around to ask questions or share what experience you have come into contact with. Or to make observations on what you are seeing and your reaction to it.





Here is the deal. Yes the OP had an agenda. They apparently felt poorly treated. they felt like they had exhausted thier options for the manufacture to do what the OP thought was making it right.

So they decided to give TR some bad press in this community. Backed up by a video filmed by a known and respected gunsmith. Who themselves confirmed the authenticity of the video in this thread and indicated that they didn't mean for it to get out, that it was intended as confirming evidence to support the services that he was quoting the customer to fix the problem.

Should we keep an open mind and judge for ourselves? Absolutely. Agree with you. But that's not what you said or how you said it, and a lot of the content in this thread really is other people noticing what was going on and commenting on what they were seeing with thier own eyes. A questionable guy with no past getting on and pretending to be just another guy. That we were able to prove were linked with the company at issue.

And in this case, the conduct of the company at issue speaks for itself, in terms of both the legal attempt at intimidation to get the content removed, as well as the use of a surrogate and their deceit.
 
#457
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

How can you claim its about agendas and not the truth, while at the same time saying you're not questioning the veracity of the original post? By dismissing the video, and calling into question the whole thing, you're absolutely questioning the intent of the Original Poster as well as the work done by Spartan to correct the problem.

Hate to break it to you, this has nothing to do with "old SH" vs "New SH" as the old way was no way near as fast to react to problems. Hence the number of people HD Rifles stuck.

To the guy who had a problem corrected ok, you still had a rifle waiting and still had business to conclude. It's what happens after the fact that matters here and in the other cases noted.
 
#458
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

40-50 odd years ago, a guy told me paint was worth upwards of 10-50K depending coverage, per gallon. 20 odd years ago that statement came true for me. I 100% re-ferbed a Vermeer trencher with a Hoe an 6 way blade, but could not get it painted an decal'ed in time for the Auction. Top bid was only 15.5K so she came home. Paint an decals only,($250.00) it went back to the auction and sold for 29.6k to a guy that dropped out the month prior at 12.2k. When I ask him about it he said, it's about looks when a banker or folks who don't know equipment are involved.

Perception, the bulk of the world is about perception, an there are those who have lost everything because of that. I lived all my life in reality, not spin or hype, and see no need to change that fact.
Looks have nothing to due with the way a weapon shoots, and that Sir, is plain fact. I've a $600.00 POS .308 I call Johnny Cash(one piece at a time) that has more first places than all the GAP's I've owned an shot before the Chemo took over.
Perception only works on the weak, or those who do not seek the truth, to the rest of the story.
 
#459
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Dude you're just being an ass for the sake of it. Taking the contray position regardless of what was presented. You have no dog in the fight and yet you are questioning everything presented for no other reason than to be the voice of the other side. Doesn't matter what the other side has said or done, you haven't once acknowledged it, what's the perception of TR based on their role in this? They, and by they I mean the owner of the company was contacted by a manufacturer here and told about the thread almost immediately?

Both sides are open to present their side of things, both sides have an equal opportunity to address the board. The rest is left to the membership to debate. The facts of this, is pretty clear when you consider the choices and the path each one decided to take.
 
#460
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I'm sorry, but if I'm spending thousands of hard-earned dollars for a custom-built rifle, that bitch better look just as good as it shoots.

If I want ugly rifles that are accurate, I'll stick to my homebuilt Savages.
 
#462
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Why has this thread been allowed to deteriorate to name calling?
Frank, close it and move on.
I am the "guy" whose problem was fixed by TR and my name is Jim St.Charles, not "guy". Your impartiality is at question to say the least.
I get it that Rooney was invited to respond and did not. In all honesty would he get a fair response? Don't know. But I do have proper grammar and can spell. So don't throw me in with his home boy. Just looking for balance and fairness.

Jim St.Charles
 
#463
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why has this thread been allowed to deteriorate to name calling?
Frank, close it and move on.
I am the "guy" whose problem was fixed by TR and my name is Jim St.Charles, not "guy". Your impartiality is at question to say the least.
I get it that Rooney was invited to respond and did not. In all honesty would he get a fair response? Don't know. But I do have proper grammar and can spell. So don't throw me in with his home boy. Just looking for balance and fairness.

Jim St.Charles</div></div>


Jim,

I don't think LL has an issue w/ you... he's talking to Gunfighter
 
#464
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Been following this thread for a while and have left some cheeto dust on the keyboard myself. Have tried to stop posting and let this thing die, but can't hold off.

GF, you keep ragging on the smith's video and "perception" thing. Aside from the bedding snafu and the screwed up trigger that got the rifle to the smith in the first place, the loose fit of the reciever and barrel threads was downright scary. Machinery Handbook doesn't have a thread-fit classification that loose. OP was lucky the barrel didn't go down range first time it was fired.

TR taught us as much as anyone needs to know about their company's culture. Bad enough that they would let that train wreck out the door and told the customer to pound sand. Sending their shill here with his line of lying BS was the crowning touch.

Thanks for letting me rant.

OFG
 
#465
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why has this thread been allowed to deteriorate to name calling?
Frank, close it and move on.
I am the "guy" whose problem was fixed by TR and my name is Jim St.Charles, not "guy". Your impartiality is at question to say the least.
I get it that Rooney was invited to respond and did not. In all honesty would he get a fair response? Don't know. But I do have proper grammar and can spell. So don't throw me in with his home boy. Just looking for balance and fairness.

Jim St.Charles</div></div>

Ok Jim, you have 33 posts and want to tell me how to run my forum. Shrewd....

I was typing from my iPhone in the airport, sitting waiting for a delayed flight... 99% of what I said was to Gunfighter, not really to you.

In my opinion your case is very different because you still had business to conduct, the question would be similar if you run into an issue with your 260 after you get it. Then I would say, yes we have a case here that is clearly the same. But I see it different...

Gunfighter is just butting heads with everyone because the OP did not show the same level of sophistication as he would have... Odd Ball is 100% correct on this.
 
#466
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Regardless of my post count I am still entitled to my opinion without insults from the forum owner. If that is where you have to stoop, good luck and have a nice life. You have no idea of my education or business accomplishments but somehow my post counts are relevant? I mean really, post counts??!! Are those a measure of my intelligence? Guess so if you are a forum owner. Too funny. Have a nice life behind your keyboard... Shrewd my ass.

Jim St.Charles
 
#468
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of my post count I am still entitled to my opinion without insults from the forum owner.</div></div>

From one Hoosier to another:

LOWLIGHT IS NOT INSULTING YOU
 
#469
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of my post count I am still entitled to my opinion without insults from the forum owner. If that is where you have to stoop, good luck and have a nice life. You have no idea of my education or business accomplishments but somehow my post counts are relevant? I mean really, post counts??!! Are those a measure of my intelligence? Guess so if you are a forum owner. Too funny. Have a nice life behind your keyboard... Shrewd my ass.

Jim St.Charles </div></div>

Opinions are like assholes man we all got them. We read what you had to say, but truthfuly this is not about you. If you don't like what you read move on. TR isn't done with your stuff so your "opinion" doesn't really carry any weight yet. Check back in with us when you have a full evaluation of the finished product that TR has provided you. At that point your "opinion" will sit a bit better with everyone here. I myself would be happy to see you get what you paid for. I can't stand seeing people get railed.

Have a good one

Dan
 
#470
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Regardless of my post count I am still entitled to my opinion without insults from the forum owner. If that is where you have to stoop, good luck and have a nice life. You have no idea of my education or business accomplishments but somehow my post counts are relevant? I mean really, post counts??!! Are those a measure of my intelligence? Guess so if you are a forum owner. Too funny. Have a nice life behind your keyboard... Shrewd my ass.

Jim St.Charles </div></div>

Where did that come from????
 
#471
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Leave him alone, Jim is probably upset because had he seen this earlier in his buying process, he might have gone another direction.

The insult is the fact, people will question his intelligence based on things like this, you buy a product, you think is first class and then you find under the hood it might not be all it is cracked up too be. Some people think that goes to their decision making. We have seen this before, I just spent upwards of $5k on a rifle and it might not all be the end all.

Jim, while your post count may not point to your level of education or intelligence it does point to your command of how to run a site like this. I have built this site since day one. I think I know how to do it, if I walked into your place of business, spent all of 33 minutes watching you work and said, "close it down Jim" you lost it here. I think you tell me to mind my own business. However clearly I never did that to you... just thought it was funny a new user would tell me how to run things.

Cognitive Dissonance here, buyers remorse... the realization that I might not have made the best decision I could have.
 
#472
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gunfighter is just butting heads with everyone because the OP did not show the same level of sophistication as he would have... Odd Ball is 100% correct on this. </div></div>
When fishing for a persons true belief or to see if/when they have changed, it is all about bait an presentation.
Your right it's a new Hide, and today is just as good as any other to join those who walked, for the same reasons. I know the drill about the door so don't worry, I'll try to out run it.
 
#473
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I have no interest in showing you the door, but there is world of difference between a place where most people knew each other and what we have here with 73,000 registered members and grows monthly by the amount of people the old site had over a few short years.

Trying to compare the discourse and camaraderie of 2002 vs today is not a fair or valid comparison. There were very few members someone couldn't say they didn't know personally.

But come on GF, you dove into this one, and clearly you're saying to a lot of people just because it has a pretty paint job don't make it good, which is clearly not the point of this at all.
 
#474
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have to wonder why GF is getting piled on when he is only trying to add balance to the discussion. He didn't call anyone a liar or call into question anyone's veracity.
I also wonder why no one has responded to my experience with TR which was good and they did the right thing to fix a mistake.
Just seems odd.
Carry on and don't flame me for sharing my thoughts unless it just makes you feel better or more righteous...

Jim St.Charles </div></div>
Agenda's, with a dick contest thrown in, would be my guess.
Nothing about the truth, is interesting enough for many these days. Make a free speech statement, but when questioned about the facts, dog pile the weak and move on. Just the latest trend, shame it's came here. Was not like that years back.
Frank has to walk a fine line that's a given, but old guys like me don't take everything at face value. That is how we grew old, question's and the ability to read between the lines, and separate fact from agenda.
</div></div>

I just wanna clarify, exactly what agendas do you think we have? Most of us don't have a dog in this fight because we don't own a TR so what do we have to gain by calling em out for shoddy work that they refuse to fix or back up?

TR was given a chance to make it right, they hid behind a surrogate, they hung up on the OP and they surely won't compensate him for the additional machining needed just to make it work.

We don't like seeing guys get taken. If you search the hide, there's examples of many fine smiths on here who have made a mistake and allowed something out of their shop that wasn't up to snuff. However, they're the FIRST to respond, contact the owner and tell em to send it back so they can make it right.

We could type paragraphs on the flaws in your logic but your logic seems to sway with every post. You spend big money, you expect to be taken care of and not buttfucked. Period. Why do you so vehemently resist that? Did that navy man get to you and brainwash you?
 
#475
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.</div></div>

wtf? it's the customer's fault for expecting to get what he paid good money for? remind me never to buy from you if you are ever selling anything. </div></div>
Two years, and then it's a problem? He never knew enough in the beginning to know it was a problem, now he wants justice, explain that point of view. I don't sell shit on here, I came here for reasons you would never understand.</div></div> If you would have read the thread, I put the rifle in the safe for a couple of year's not a crime. The trigger was so short I had to take the Badger bolt knob off and put a small round bolt knob on to clear my trigger finger, it was very narrow and short not very common. So I wanted to put a trigger on with a wide shoe, like most I have seen on this site, so that's what I did and when Mark opened the rifle up that's when we discovered all the problems. If I seen this in the beginning I would have told them to put the rifle in there ass. I had no clue the rifle was that bad so stop making it sound like I am the asshole.
 
#476
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Wow..... this is a long thread.

Did I miss something?
grin.gif


Really, I have read from beginning to end and it is very obvious some people will look at the situation with blinders on and an obstructed view missing out on the big picture.


The fact that some of the replies are way off base and un called for is pretty amazing. Most of everyone on this forum is/are adults. Some with more weaponry knowledge than others as we all can see but none the less, ones chest can grow in size while sitting behind a keyboard in the privacy of a home. Everyone should take a step back, have a crown and sprite, a beer or what ever your favorite flavor is and relax a bit.

Come back to the keyboard with an open mind and try to see all sides of the topic and have propper communications. Not pointing out any one individual as we all get this way at times but the bantering solves nothing.

Just my .02. Carry on.
 
#477
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i see, it's totally ok to sell something far less quality than advertised as long as the customer is uneducated and doesn't know better. </div></div> Not want I am saying at all.

<span style="color: #FF0000">sure sounds like it to me.</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">should no one else be made aware of the quality coming out of this shop? should it be kept a secret so other uneducated buyers spend their hard earned money on junk thinking that they are getting what is advertised/what they paid for?</div></div> It's always been a buyer beware world an always will. Main reason when my sticks are barreled they do not go back to KC. Yes, I have paid for learning/training as well, but I never waited two years to speak out.

<span style="color: #FF0000">you are seriously saying spending high dollar on a "high end" rifle from a builder that advertises every place that will allow them to falls into the buyer beware category? see below about the two year thing.</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i bought a high end torque wrench one time for an engine i was going to build. one thing led to another and that project got put off. i never even opened the box to the torque wrench until a couple years after i got it. when i opened it the micrometer dial was obviously fubar. was i in the wrong for spending my money on this high end torque wrench? if the manufacture didn't take care of me, would i have been wrong to let people know about it? </div></div> When you bought it, you assume'd. Why do they make and most quality builders use torque wrench calibration gauge's. I've sent many a Proto, Snap-On, Matco and Mac back to the truck they came from, w/o them being used the first time.
</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF0000">you totally missed the point of that paragraph. that torque wrench was not a calibration issue. it was a serious manufacturing defect. either way, torque wrench or rifle, not everyone realizes they have a problem the day ups drops the item off. situations come up where one may not find the problem/problems until years later. i personally think a custom rifle should be free of MANUFACTURING DEFECTS for the life. not wear and tear such as finish wearing off or barrels wearing out from use. there is no way you can honestly say that this rifle was not a complete manufacturing defect. if you do, i'm thinking you may have an agenda.</span>
 
#478
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i'm thinking you may have an agenda.[/color] </div></div>

Nope..... He just wants to be a dick, because he can. Its like that kid in school that was all ways trying to be "cool" by being different.
 
#479
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? And you're just mad that the OP didn't find out sooner? I'm glad we have people like you here on the hide to teach us. Now I know when I buy my first custom rig to immediately send it off to another smith to tell me whether or not it's good work or else I'm just a fanboy.

I really wish the ingore user function worked when I wasn't logged in. That way I would have to read this retarded shit anymore. </div></div>Don't put words in my mouth. It's not sporting.
 
#480
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ndnboy71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that yet again is a wrong assumtion from a bunch of rednecks. that isnt a picture of me. have a nice day </div></div>

Hey guy, I dont have a dog in this fight, reading the thread for entertainment while I am waiting for my last coat of polyurethane to dry on a project for my son....at one time considered a TR, but will have to be on drugs to buy one now

I am not sure where you are from, but your continued use of the word redneck is pissing me off...man up to the lies you started on this topic and lay off the slang use, you only wish you were as smart...
 
#481
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? And you're just mad that the OP didn't find out sooner? I'm glad we have people like you here on the hide to teach us. Now I know when I buy my first custom rig to immediately send it off to another smith to tell me whether or not it's good work or else I'm just a fanboy.

I really wish the ingore user function worked when I wasn't logged in. That way I would have to read this retarded shit anymore. </div></div>Don't put words in my mouth. It's not sporting. </div></div>

Graham, I don't think he was talking to you.
smile.gif
 
#482
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rideHPD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is anyone else irritated that their COMpany website is tacticalrifles.NET? Their name alone should be your first clue that they fail to act professionally on any scale, starting with the simplest of internet nomenclature and marketing. The grammar failz only make perfect sense when then can't even get tacticalrifles.COM right. (and tr.com is available, it's a registered domain, but up for sale, and since they pay so much for advertising you'd think they'd pay for a correct domain, right?) </div></div>

I hate to bust your bubble man, but a lot of companies use .net instead of .com... www.gaprecision.net lol </div></div>

www.lewismachine.net
 
#483
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, I don't think he was talking to you.
smile.gif
</div></div>That's entirely possible.

I have had that effect on some critics here.
laugh.gif
 
#486
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: StanwoodSpartan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What did I miss?? </div></div>

Nothing to see here. Carry on
 
#490
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #FF0000">you totally missed the point of that paragraph. that torque wrench was not a calibration issue. it was a serious manufacturing defect. either way, torque wrench or rifle, not everyone realizes they have a problem the day ups drops the item off. situations come up where one may not find the problem/problems until years later. i personally think a custom rifle should be free of MANUFACTURING DEFECTS for the life. not wear and tear such as finish wearing off or barrels wearing out from use. there is no way you can honestly say that this rifle was not a complete manufacturing defect. if you do, i'm thinking you may have an agenda.</span> </div></div>

This is the heart of the problem....manufacturer's warranty and after sales service.

I don't know Tactical Rifles - they may be everything and more that those that do say. But they would not be alone in this world on that score!

Whether high-end custom rifles or not....there should be a clear statement of warranty and T&C on new product and/or custom work from any retailer or smith available on request if necessary.

There are clear US legal definitions/guidelines of warranty...just look 'em up.

I agree wholeheartedly with the "Buyer Beware" thing...but stuff happens.

Then, either the vendor sorts it or the legal/consumer protection shit starts to fly.

How companies handle these issues is what defines them, makes them or breaks them.
 
#491
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackOps Tech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holy Moly....I've disassembled more than a few TR rifles just like the one in the video....just sayin'.

Glad Spartan Mark was on it.... </div></div>

^^^^This should be the the end of any rhetoric.
 
#492
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Frank,
Your post #3507827 was classy, seriously. Thank you.
Not trying to tell you how to run your business. My point was how much more can be said or learned that has not already been posted to this thread? Once it got to the point of name calling and bickering, it just seemed to me, (operative words:"to me")that the thread had run its course.
Do I have buyer's remorse? Good question.

Jim St.Charles
 
#493
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeo556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? And you're just mad that the OP didn't find out sooner? I'm glad we have people like you here on the hide to teach us. Now I know when I buy my first custom rig to immediately send it off to another smith to tell me whether or not it's good work or else I'm just a fanboy.

I really wish the ingore user function worked when I wasn't logged in. That way I would have to read this retarded shit anymore. </div></div>Don't put words in my mouth. It's not sporting. </div></div>

Graham, I don't think he was talking to you.
smile.gif
</div></div>

Cavmanmoore, is correct.
 
#495
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frank,
Your post #3507827 was classy, seriously. Thank you.
Not trying to tell you how to run your business. My point was how much more can be said or learned that has not already been posted to this thread? Once it got to the point of name calling and bickering, it just seemed to me, (operative words:"to me")that the thread had run its course.
Do I have buyer's remorse? Good question.

Jim St.Charles
</div></div>

Jim,

I would agree, the post has run its natural course except for one thing. The company has not officially responded.

I could lock the thread, stick it up in the rifle section for Google and the World to see, but the instant I do the Company can say they wanted to address the thread but it was locked.

I want to give tem every opportunity to address the issue. Maybe someone talks to them, maybe they feel it's not worth it, maybe they don't care what is posted. But the opportunity should be there.

Now they can call me, email, explain things, or not. But addressing the problem is one sure way to make it go away. Like people say there are two sides to every story, I want them to be able to tell their side of it. No strings attached.
 
#496
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BasraBoy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...there should be a clear statement of warranty and T&C on new product and/or custom work from any retailer or smith available on request if necessary. There are clear US legal definitions/guidelines of warranty...just look 'em up. Then, either the vendor sorts it or the legal/consumer protection shit starts to fly. How companies handle these issues is what defines them, makes them or breaks them. </div></div>Graham's Rule #1 applies here. The reality is that how custom gun companies handle warranty issues rarely imapacts them at all - except with regard to repeat sales.

In the US what one finds with every new firearm is an express disclaimer of warranties expressed or implied. It's a Magnusson-Moss thing, and without explaining it in detail it means that your state consumer protection statutes, if they have any teeth to begin with, probably don't apply to the warranty issues. And, unless you are lucky enough to reside in the same state as the gunsmith, because of a thing called diversity of citizenship you will probably find yourself in federal court. Therefore you had better have a problem worth more than seventy-five thousand dollars or you will find the front door of the courthouse firmly locked.

Does one have a right to a product from a custom gunsmith that is fit for its intended purpose? Sure. That issue came up with some other builds here: If the rifle doesn't go 'BANG', or there is a potential safety issue, then the buyer can refuse his acceptance of the product and send it back. But if the gunsmith does crappy work, or the rifle doesn't shoot very well, its likely a (contract) question of diminution of value in what was ordered vs what was received.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Because all the consumer has is a three-to-five thousand dollar problem. And the system isn't designed to provide a rememdy for people with five thousand dollar problems - that is, unless they are independently wealthy.
 
#497
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Haven't they already tried to repsond by trying to backdoor the SH nation and decieve us all? That was their chance to stand behind their product and make wrong right. They chose to handle it the wrong way and got even more fucked.
 
#498
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

There are many business models that work. Some businesses make their money not by developing a loyal customer base, but by selling their product once to as many people as they can find who are willing to buy it. Those kinds of companies are heavily dependent on advertising because they are in need of a steady stream of new buyers. Those kinds of companies usually have poor customer service. Those kinds of companies usually refuse to stand behind their product.

I have no idea how TR works, or how it makes its money. But, as they say in police work, there are always clues from which one can form an opinion.
 
#499
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

That's a logical and true business point of view.

Every Tourist Town has rip off joints for every imaginable service. They don't HAVE to be good, they make money on the first and only sale to a tourist, and don't give a damn because how much harm can they do. They advertise for the next load of victoms. Then BOOM, a site like Trip Advisors pops up with reviews of everything and all the sudden their business tanks because they can't fuck as many tourists with one time sales.

The principal of TR shows up on the FL Sec. of State records as having run a number of business (Corporations) that are no more.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many business models that work. Some businesses make their money not by developing a loyal customer base, but by selling their product once to as many people as they can find who are willing to buy it. Those kinds of companies are heavily dependent on advertising because they are in need of a steady stream of new buyers. Those kinds of companies usually have poor customer service. Those kinds of companies usually refuse to stand behind their product.

I have no idea how TR works, or how it makes its money. But, as they say in police work, there are always clues from which one can form an opinion. </div></div>
 
#500
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jAXDIALATION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Raul, would the ATF have any interest in a license holder that puts out products like this? Might a call to the Miami Branch be appropriate?

</div></div>

The ATF didn't care when Shooter's Depot gave me the runaround for months on my Form 4 for a silencer. The lady was nice enough to call them and ask on the status for me, but that's about all she could do. They don't care unless a business is doing something illegal. I think the only option for something like this is small claims court.
 
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