WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

#401
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only folks who don't fuck up, are those who don't do anything. Which includes most everyone in this thread.
Love the finger pointing Cheeto eaters, who may or may not own a safe queen,...yet.
This place has really changed,....</div></div>

You missed the whole point, fucking up is fine, accepting responsibility for it, is the issue and the point. Telling the guy to go pound sand is the problem and that if it don't shoot is because you can't mentality. Any company can put out a lemon how you handle the customer and the sale after the fact is what separates good from bad... clearly once the rifle left the shop, regardless of the condition, the owner was on his own as the company washed their hands of the product and its problems.

Reading comprehension ... </div></div>

2 years then a video, has nothing to do w/reading comp and,.... the chetto eaters still stands.
 
#402
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2 years then a video, has nothing to do w/reading comp and,.... the chetto eaters still stands. </div></div>

WTF is a chetto? Seems you have an issue here... simple to just scan the thread and move on. Nothing here requires you to post. Standing by for your return bomb.
 
#403
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sprayed99</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2 years then a video, has nothing to do w/reading comp and,.... the chetto eaters still stands. </div></div>

WTF is a chetto? Seems you have an issue here... simple to just scan the thread and move on. Nothing here requires you to post. Standing by for your return bomb. </div></div>

Your kidding right??? there like cheese puffs.
http://www.fritolay.com/our-snacks/cheetos.html
 
#404
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: whit</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sprayed99</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

2 years then a video, has nothing to do w/reading comp and,.... the chetto eaters still stands. </div></div>

WTF is a chetto? Seems you have an issue here... simple to just scan the thread and move on. Nothing here requires you to post. Standing by for your return bomb. </div></div>

Your kidding right??? there like cheese puffs.
http://www.fritolay.com/our-snacks/cheetos.html

</div></div>

Its a spelling joke as most have had a great time pointing out in this thread. Please read your link for the correct spelling. LOL
 
#405
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only folks who don't fuck up, are those who don't do anything. Which includes most everyone in this thread.
Love the finger pointing Cheeto eaters, who may or may not own a safe queen,...yet.
This place has really changed,.... </div></div>

Dont be mad........ Not everyone is a Cheeto eating champ like you mate.

Have a drink on me
haterAid_Flyer-01.jpg
 
#406
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only folks who don't fuck up, are those who don't do anything. Which includes most everyone in this thread.
Love the finger pointing Cheeto eaters, who may or may not own a safe queen,...yet.
This place has really changed,....</div></div>

You missed the whole point, fucking up is fine, accepting responsibility for it, is the issue and the point. Telling the guy to go pound sand is the problem and that if it don't shoot is because you can't mentality. Any company can put out a lemon how you handle the customer and the sale after the fact is what separates good from bad... clearly once the rifle left the shop, regardless of the condition, the owner was on his own as the company washed their hands of the product and its problems.

Reading comprehension ... </div></div>

2 years then a video, has nothing to do w/reading comp and,.... the chetto eaters still stands. </div></div>

D'uh the guy explained it, he was new to the rifle, actually new to precision rifles, had an issue with the trigger and wasn't able to group, put the rifle up, moved on with his life and then revisited later when life slowed back down. Nothing dozen of people don't do everyday, start something, get side tracked with life, and then revisit it later.

He originally was looking to get the trigger done and that opened the door for what you see in the video.

People buy stuff all of the time without knowing much about it or only what they read or are told by less than reliable sources. When the instant success doesn't happen, they drop it. Some people take it back up, others drop it completely and try something else.
 
#407
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People buy stuff all of the time without knowing much about it or only what they read or are told by less than reliable sources. When the instant success doesn't happen, they drop it. Some people take it back up, others drop it completely and try something else. </div></div>


Is the fever that bad?
Remember a guy that went by Celt, that mofo'ed a few sticks, then ran with some bucks.
Remember when TR could not even be talked about on here, but now it's OK for the Cheeto eaters to pile on.

I'm not defending TR at all, they are like most of the rest of the wannabees, over priced, poor workmanship, it will make you a star at the range,...and if you want/allow us to do XXX you won't believe how well it will shoot.
The amount of hype an pipe that abounds anymore is nothing more than a new way to separate the wide eyes from their cash. Then when that happens, they run to the net for redemption of their own lack of knowledge. Ie, Not my fault,... someone should have told me,... you the knowing please help me feel better about this,... and force the folks who fucked me, to fix what they hosed up, even though it's been two years.

I get it, the net can make or break a company and so be it But, the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.
The amount of trash talkers in this thread abounds, and like an Okie once said,
Some learn from reading,
Some learn from watching,
Others have to pee on the electric fence for their selfs
or something like that.
My question is why such a long thread based on two fuckup's, or is there more to it, than that?
Tacticool came/comes at a price for everyone,and is paid for in different ways. Some pay cash, some buy on credit, but others sell part of what they once stood for.
Guess I'm a slow learner, as I kept the faith,.....to this point.
Got to go, med's are calling.
OBTW, It's a bitch to go thru life as it is, but one thing for sure. I'll get to my end holding on to belief/things I'll never sell for money or power. Then again I could blame the med's, but believe it's deeper than that,.... crutch.

Cheeto eaters be sure to jump in,... this is not the time to think for your selfs at all,... is it?
 
#409
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VJJPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><----cheeto eater

<----chetto from the ghetto </div></div>
Glad to know some can think, and understand some "Spelling Errors" are not, errors at all.
 
#410
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.</div></div>

wtf? it's the customer's fault for expecting to get what he paid good money for? remind me never to buy from you if you are ever selling anything.
 
#411
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.</div></div>

wtf? it's the customer's fault for expecting to get what he paid good money for? remind me never to buy from you if you are ever selling anything. </div></div>
Two years, and then it's a problem? He never knew enough in the beginning to know it was a problem, now he wants justice, explain that point of view. I don't sell shit on here, I came here for reasons you would never understand.
 
#412
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Buyer beware...I get it. I fall into this category too, and I own that I didn't do enough homework before separating myself from my cash.

I "fell" for their nice looking website, their slick brochure, and a conversation with Mr. Rooney that led me to believe he knew what he was doing.

That said, I did look on several forums for negative reviews, including this one. At the time, if memory serves, there was one negative review that I found (here I think) and several positive reviews from other like forums.

After becoming aware of the poor quality and poor customer service he received, the OP posted here to warn others. For that I thank him. If I'd read it years ago, I'd most likely have gone with another company.

And to be fair to the gunsmith, I haven't taken my rifle to another smith to look over as thoroughly as the OP did. For all I know, mine is great. It shoots better than I do.

Regardless, I believe this thread serves a positive and educational purpose.

 
#413
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.</div></div>

wtf? it's the customer's fault for expecting to get what he paid good money for? remind me never to buy from you if you are ever selling anything. </div></div>
Two years, and then it's a problem? He never knew enough in the beginning to know it was a problem, now he wants justice, explain that point of view. I don't sell shit on here, I came here for reasons you would never understand. </div></div>


i see, it's totally ok to sell something far less quality than advertised as long as the customer is uneducated and doesn't know better.

should no one else be made aware of the quality coming out of this shop? should it be kept a secret so other uneducated buyers spend their hard earned money on junk thinking that they are getting what is advertised/what they paid for?



i bought a high end torque wrench one time for an engine i was going to build. one thing led to another and that project got put off. i never even opened the box to the torque wrench until a couple years after i got it. when i opened it the micrometer dial was obviously fubar. was i in the wrong for spending my money on this high end torque wrench? if the manufacture didn't take care of me, would i have been wrong to let people know about it?
 
#414
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I am amazed at your cynicism Gunfighter.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People buy stuff all of the time without knowing much about it or only what they read or are told by less than reliable sources. When the instant success doesn't happen, they drop it. Some people take it back up, others drop it completely and try something else. </div></div>

Is the fever that bad?

<span style="font-weight: bold">What fever?</span>

Remember a guy that went by Celt, that mofo'ed a few sticks, then ran with some bucks.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Jeff Hicks? Yes, many of us remember him and if you recall the entire story, he wasn't some fly-by-night smith. He had a very good reputation for building outstanding rifles and having excellent service. It wasn't until years later after he got wrapped up in his BS that things went south. TR started out in the shitter.</span>

Remember when TR could not even be talked about on here, but now it's OK for the Cheeto eaters to pile on.

<span style="font-weight: bold">TR is still persona non gratis here however this video and testimony is another way to help to try and prevent anyone else from making a potential mistake. It is also an effort to try and get a company to step up and fix their screw up</span>

I'm not defending TR at all, they are like most of the rest of the wannabees, over priced, poor workmanship, it will make you a star at the range,...and if you want/allow us to do XXX you won't believe how well it will shoot.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Who are the rest of the "wannabees"? Who is selling over priced and poor workmanship?</span>

The amount of hype an pipe that abounds anymore is nothing more than a new way to separate the wide eyes from their cash. Then when that happens, they run to the net for redemption of their own lack of knowledge. Ie, Not my fault,... someone should have told me,... you the knowing please help me feel better about this,... and force the folks who fucked me, to fix what they hosed up, even though it's been two years.

<span style="font-weight: bold">This is where I LOL'd. If you want to point a finger, then point it right at TR. They are the ones spending tens of thousands on advertising in multiple gun rags. They're the one vying for television time. Sure, you can blame the consumer's ignorance, caveat emptor, but that still doesn't give the company a free pass to sell sub par work. And really, what does the time frame have to do with it? Bad work is bad work and if the craftsmanship is substandard or shoddy, why is it ok to let it pass just because time has elapsed? As if a couple of years of sitting in a safe negates the fact that their work looks like shit? There is no statute of limitations for shit work.</span>

I get it, the net can make or break a company and so be it But, the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Again, here I LOL'd. Aren't you the same guy that was complaining how companies had no integrity if they didn't stick to their word concerning a delivery date? Accusing them (erroneously) of a "bait and switch" maneuver? Now here's a company with numerous (believe me, there are more incidents than this one highlighted here) complaints against it and now you're defending them by accusing the buyer of some hidden agenda?</span>

My question is why such a long thread based on two fuckup's, or is there more to it, than that?

<span style="font-weight: bold">Yes, there is more to it than that.</span>

Tacticool came/comes at a price for everyone,and is paid for in different ways. Some pay cash, some buy on credit, but others sell part of what they once stood for.
Guess I'm a slow learner, as I kept the faith,.....to this point.
Got to go, med's are calling.
OBTW, It's a bitch to go thru life as it is, but one thing for sure. I'll get to my end holding on to belief/things I'll never sell for money or power. Then again I could blame the med's, but believe it's deeper than that,.... crutch.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Like I said, I'm curious what you stand for. Because as I pointed out earlier, you were extremely critical of a company (or companies) that "guestimated" at a delivery date but should be held to that date with zero leeway, but here you have a company that obviously screwed up and you're basically saying it's the consumer's fault "But, the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one." So who and what do you stand for? Companies that stick to their word so a consumer doesn't get screwed or companies that can sell what they want hoping enough time passes they can excuse their crappy work? </span>
 
#415
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i see, it's totally ok to sell something far less quality than advertised as long as the customer is uneducated and doesn't know better. </div></div> Not want I am saying at all.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">should no one else be made aware of the quality coming out of this shop? should it be kept a secret so other uneducated buyers spend their hard earned money on junk thinking that they are getting what is advertised/what they paid for?</div></div> It's always been a buyer beware world an always will. Main reason when my sticks are barreled they do not go back to KC. Yes, I have paid for learning/training as well, but I never waited two years to speak out.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i bought a high end torque wrench one time for an engine i was going to build. one thing led to another and that project got put off. i never even opened the box to the torque wrench until a couple years after i got it. when i opened it the micrometer dial was obviously fubar. was i in the wrong for spending my money on this high end torque wrench? if the manufacture didn't take care of me, would i have been wrong to let people know about it? </div></div> When you bought it, you assume'd. Why do they make and most quality builders use torque wrench calibration gauge's. I've sent many a Proto, Snap-On, Matco and Mac back to the truck they came from, w/o them being used the first time.
 
#416
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember when TR could not even be talked about on here, but now it's OK for the Cheeto eaters to pile on.

<span style="font-weight: bold">TR is still persona non gratis here however this video and testimony is another way to help to try and prevent anyone else from making a potential mistake. It is also an effort to try and get a company to step up and fix their screw up</span></div></div>
If you really believe that, there is nothing I can say that will make a difference,...at all.
One question, how is this any different than the past with TR, if they were a no go, for bad in the past, how is this different, what has changed?
 
#417
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Like I said, I'm curious what you stand for. Because as I pointed out earlier, you were extremely critical of a company (or companies) that "guestimated" at a delivery date but should be held to that date with zero leeway, but here you have a company that obviously screwed up and you're basically saying it's the consumer's fault "But, the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one." So who and what do you stand for? Companies that stick to their word so a consumer doesn't get screwed or companies that can sell what they want hoping enough time passes they can excuse their crappy work? </span></div></div>
People taking responsibly for their own actions, right or wrong. Those three little words, most have thrown by the roadside, to pro-gress. The meat must be about done, as the lackeys are gathering.
 
#418
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember when TR could not even be talked about on here, but now it's OK for the Cheeto eaters to pile on.

<span style="font-weight: bold">TR is still persona non gratis here however this video and testimony is another way to help to try and prevent anyone else from making a potential mistake. It is also an effort to try and get a company to step up and fix their screw up</span></div></div>
If you really believe that, there is nothing I can say that will make a difference,...at all.
One question, how is this any different than the past with TR, if they were a no go, for bad in the past, how is this different, what has changed? </div></div>

This is video testimony by a reputable smith. Video proof, not just hearsay.
 
#420
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
People taking responsibly for their own actions, right or wrong. Those three little words, most have thrown by the roadside, to pro-gress. The meat must be about done, as the lackeys are gathering.</div></div>

When you say "people taking responsibility for their own actions, right or wrong" who are you including? You're including the consumer, ok, caveat emptor, we established that. But are you ALSO talking about the owner of the company taking responsible for HIS actions? Because reading your posts it seems TR gets a free pass here and you sound like a hypocrite.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The meat must be about done, as the lackeys are gathering.</div></div>

And if you decide to insult someone, I would suggest you either man up and call them out by name or say it to their face.
 
#421
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Only folks who don't fuck up, are those who don't do anything. ....... </div></div>
That old cliche isn't applicable here. Poor quality workmanship is the applicable term.
 
#422
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
When you say "people taking responsibility for their own actions, right or wrong" who are you including?</div></div> Their, as in both.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And if you decide to insult someone, I would suggest you either man up and call them out by name or say it to their face. </div></div>
If an when I decide to insult some-"one", there will be no doubt who they are or the manner in which I say it.

I find it odd TR has been a no go until a reputable smith came along, as you say. What happened to all the ones on here, their reps take a hit, that I missed?
 
#423
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is video testimony by a reputable smith. Video proof, not just hearsay. </div></div>
Just so I understand, unless it's video taped, it's all questionable no matter who?
 
#424
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

If it's "their" as in both, would you mind including TR specifically because it doesn't appear that you have any issue with the way they've handled this situation

And I cannot even decipher what you're trying to say in regards to other smiths? Whose reps are you referring to? Have any other smiths came out with videos?

I'm not sure what point your trying to make with this sentence; "I find it odd TR has been a no go until a reputable smith came along, as you say. What happened to all the ones on here, their reps take a hit, that I missed?"

TR was and is a no-go here however that has been for reasons between Frank and TR. TR has an underlying bad reputation fostered by word of mouth. The video brings to light that reputation is a little more substantiated. I'm sure other "reputable" smiths have seen shoddy work as well. Now whether or not they choose to make a video to document for prefer to rely on their testimony is entirely up to them.
 
#426
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Let me sum up this thread:

Man buys gun but doesn't shoot it for a couple of years because he doesn't have a scope for it.

Man gets scope and realizes that the gun is a POS!

Man try's to contact shitty gun builder that has no clue what he's doing

Dumb ass gun builder hangs up on buyer

Buyer takes gun to good gunsmith

Good gunsmith videos the terrible workmanship of shitty gun builder

Workers/Friends of company that build terrible quality guns act like idiots and try to blame buyer and good gunsmith.

That about sums it up. Continue on
 
#427
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's "their" as in both, would you mind including TR specifically because it doesn't appear that you have any issue with the way they've handled this situation
Did that
gunfighter14e2 said:
and force the folks who fucked me, to fix what they hosed up, even though it's been two years.
Mike said:
And I cannot even decipher what you're trying to say in regards to other smiths? Whose reps are you referring to? Have any other smiths came out with videos?</div></div> Question is why does a reputable smith need a video in the first place, what happened to a man of his words?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure what point your trying to make with this sentence; "I find it odd TR has been a no go until a reputable smith came along, as you say. What happened to all the ones on here, their reps take a hit, that I missed?"</div></div> see above

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TR was and is a no-go here however that has been for reasons between Frank and TR. TR has an underlying bad reputation fostered by word of mouth. The video brings to light that reputation is a little more substantiated. </div></div> A no go, is a no go, in my book. No matter what the issue, if it's a no go, thats it. Do you think it's fair only on side, gets to voice up. Let the other state their case so the complete picture can be seen, not pick an choose the highlights that suit.
I would not allow/have TR build a dog house for me, let along a weapon that I may need to work on demand, but that is not in question here. The amount of piling on w/o both sides piping up, says a lot about the judgement of the lock steppers that abound here anymore. Then again it's 2012 and hearing both sides before voicing a stance is the norm. This whole thread reminds me of the Cluster fuck over Chevy pickup gas tanks,...and I am a Ford guy.
Click to expand...
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#428
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Great thread, lots of entertainment..

I was a sailmaker for 10 years and we once shipped a sail that ,..well shouldn't have left..

Customer called and voiced his concerns.
The response by my boss was, "Send it back"
When it arrived he had a sit down with all of us..
stopped the production.
we built a new one that was damn near perfect and shipped it in record time.

He hung it up overhead with a note..

We have used our one "Get Out Of Jail Free Card"

"NEVER AGAIN"

then we went back to work, every day that sail was in our visual

They should have hung the rifle on the wall at the shop,with a sign.
 
#429
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Morgan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Workers/Friends of company that build terrible quality guns act like idiots and try to blame buyer and good gunsmith. </div></div>
Assumptions are many times like assuming.
 
#430
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Morgan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let me sum up this thread:

Man buys gun but doesn't shoot it for a couple of years because he doesn't have a scope for it.

Man gets scope and realizes that the gun is a POS!

Man try's to contact shitty gun builder that has no clue what he's doing

Dumb ass gun builder hangs up on buyer

Buyer takes gun to good gunsmith

Good gunsmith videos the terrible workmanship of shitty gun builder

Workers/Friends of company that build terrible quality guns act like idiots and try to blame buyer and good gunsmith. </div></div>Well said.
 
#432
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I think the other side did state their case by disguising themselves and lying instead of addressing the incident directly and honestly.

Perhaps I'm a lock stepper?

In terms of the video, I appreciate it. It shows what to look for and demonstrated the extent to which the quality was bad. It was relevant to the OP's point and added to the credibility of his claims.
 
#433
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: B. Morgan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Workers/Friends of company that build terrible quality guns act like idiots and try to blame buyer and good gunsmith. </div></div>
Assumptions are many times like assuming.</div></div>

GF is just doing the vogue thing, going against the grain because it counters the norm.

You brought up Jeff Hicks, do you not recall the outcry from those who ordered rifles and were screwed because no one warned them. Because Hicks was in good standing here, he worked under cover of the site's reputation. When we started to see issues nobody said anything because we all remembered the good.

What about the gun painter, nothing was posted to beware, at least nothing easily found, people were taken and getting their stuff returned was tough.

As far as the company I know for a fact they were called about this thread, immediately in fact. They sent the surrogate, there is no assumption, the person who made the call told me.

Last time they claimed other gunsmiths under assumed names were attacking. It's was a hearsay issue. Basically they took what happened to Tac Ops here years ago, happened to them and that was the basis of their letter against the site. This is above boards and I have given them every opportunity to reply. So you know they also claimed the site selectively blocked them from registering to address the issue, we both know the site software doesn't work that way.

Having witnessed this type of workmanship first hand from the same company, I think it does a dis-service that you can't find anything about them but the reviews bought and paid for by gun writers. Also because there is a YouTube video it becomes much harder to bully. You now have to force YouTube to remove original work.

The offer was posted for me to mediate this, to provide them an outlet to address the issue. Nothing so far and the owner was immediately called on this thread. If you think it is unfavor, that buyer beware is enough, ok, where do they get the knowledge to become wary? As you can see GF the owner is not asking for the full amount but just the labor. Buyer beware is great, but it's one of the reasons you pay $5k, so you get customer service after the fact. He didn't buy it used after all.
 
#434
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I talked to Celt before he left Indiana, and was not comfortable enough to even send my bolt to have the timing changed an knob put on. Waited an had Gap do a whole stick, but they made a goof as well, but we worked it out. No big thing, it was done in a timely fashion, not two years later.

Gun rags will never have a bad review, we know that. My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and everything is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. The fan boys piled up like chickens in hot weather to the point where nramans first post in this thread was bankable w/o question.

Should there be a neutral corner for objective weapon/gun reviews, yes. Can that happen here, my first guess would be no, due to fan boys at every turn.
When money is involved, true none binding product reviews suffer, and you of all people know that.
 
#435
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and everything is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. </div></div>

If you knew the corrective smith like many here do, there'd be no question in your mind either. Marc is not only one of the most competent gunsmith's in the nation, but he's also the humblest and kindest I've met. There isn't a mean or deceitful streak in him.

He made the video so that he could show his client what he fixed for his $900 in machine work, not as a tool to flame another builder. The customer chose to make that video public.
 
#436
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and <span style="font-weight: bold">everything</span> is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. </div></div>

If you knew the corrective smith like many here do, there'd be no question in your mind either. Marc is not only one of the most competent gunsmith's in the nation, but he's also the humblest and kindest I've met. There isn't a mean or deceitful streak in him.

He made the video so that he could show his client what he fixed for his $900 in machine work, not as a tool to flame another builder. The customer chose to make that video public. </div></div>

Key word is in bold now, which includes nramans first post in this thread.
 
#437
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

You're one guy and what you saw may or may not have been near the end of Jeff's career. Not everyone is savvy enough to see through the bullshit.

The owner of TR is a salesman and very good at selling rifles. He advertises extensively, he books time on TV shows and he gets well written reviews put in magazines that litter the net. Negative reviews like the one on here when, again, a surrogate asked is harshly dealt with. They basically sent a letter from an attorney threatening the site to remove the negative comments. While things are so black and white for you, the idea of being presented a letter on a sunday afternoon from an attorney cause a bit of a headache. Granted it was toothless, but still, you don't want that kind of bullshit. For the average user who never sees the crap behind the scenes, it's all roses I am sure.

So how do you get neutral reviews ? Well it's not easy because people pay big money for stuff and if it sucks they dont' want to admit it, "hey I just spent $5,900 for a package from company "X" and I now need it to be worked on". Good luck hearing that... not to mention most buyers have nothing to compare it too.

For the site, most companies will either cherry pick a stick or tell you up front, "If their is an issue send it back" so if something happens, you get, "oh i put the wrong trigger in it, that is why it doesn't cock" send it back and I will replace the trigger. Have I received products to do a review on and not posted it, yes... because there were minor issue, and you're still working business to business so you don't immediately slaughter a company. You see how they handle it.

While TR might not tell me to pound sand if I had an issue, they will clearly tell joe average guy as noted by the case here and the single post on M4Carbine. Even in my personal experience with the student and his rifle, it was less than stellar support.

Another step further, look at Premier, when I say something less than flattering on them, you get a ton of guys who, even though 1/2 have returned their scopes for CS issues, will say, "My scope works great, I have never seen a problem with it" So what is Neutral... some people will say, well those guys shoot 1000 rounds a year and Frank shoots 20,000 rounds, maybe what he says means something, while a lot of others will say, "Great Glass, Great Customer Service" I am there, and then never notice the problem. Heck I have walked up to rifles at the matches and pointed out problems the owners have never seen, until I showed them. "look dude, you're parallax is not working" ... oh I never saw that. D'uh.

For the record, I came to this thread way late, in fact JasonK alerted me too it, had I seen it sooner I would have probably edited the entire post to not mention the name, but it was too late. Their man was in here speaking and it was pretty much a full first page. I started to edit out the name, simply because I don't want to give him the press... but that is my rule and not a law. Had it not mentioned their name as it does I would have been happier with it.
 
#438
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I have relevant experience with TR. I have no affiliation with them and there members here that can verify that as true.
In 2/2012 I contracted with them to build a .204 SVR. Delivery time was represented as nine months. In the meantime I bought a LMT .204 barrel for my LMT MRP since I was planning a pdog shoot.
After I received the LMT barrel. I called David Rooney to see if I could cancel my order and replace it with a .260 bolt rifle. No problem. I just needed to execute a new order contract which I did and returned to TR. So in my mind the .204 was cancelled and the .260 was the build. Subsequent to this I sent an e-mail that could be construed as agreeing to both rifles although that was not my intent. In context my intent was clear. One sentence read by itself could cause ambiguity. In any event, in July I was told that my rifle was being shipped. I was stoked. Ordered some .260 ammo and waited. When it gets here it is the .204. I was pissed. I called David and left a nuclear voice mail message. After we worked through that TR sent me a return shipping label and I sent the .204 back. The administrative staff I worked with were exceptional. No problems at all getting everything fixed.
I did not closely examine the rifle, but I did unwrap it and it was very similar to the JP's I have owned in appearance and design.
So, not a bad experience even though it could have been. When my .260 arrives I will share my opinions on the rifle, but in the interest of full and fair disclosure I am no expert.
Jim St.Charles
 
#439
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

Can I make a few suggestions without too many getting offended?

The past is the past and lets all move on. I believe everyone has learned from mistakes we all made.

The site is not perfect and with growth we have attracted lots of different folks with different skill sets and abilities.

No one should leave any sleep or friends over this except the poor owner of said rifle and the men who charged him for the poor work.

GF14 your a good man. Frank is a good man.

GF14 if you met Marc you would love the guy. Can not say enough good about him.

Lets agree to disagree and still be frends
 
#440
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and everything is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. </div></div>

If you knew the corrective smith like many here do, there'd be no question in your mind either. Marc is not only one of the most competent gunsmith's in the nation, but he's also the humblest and kindest I've met. There isn't a mean or deceitful streak in him.

He made the video so that he could show his client what he fixed for his $900 in machine work, not as a tool to flame another builder. The customer chose to make that video public.</div></div>

+1 about Marc.

With respect to "everything" if you had a talented eye for gunsmithing or recognizing crap vrs quality (before and after results of the video) it was a novel of information.

Why do you think so many people piled on? Including many other reputable gunsmiths...
 
#441
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I fully understand the Sunday afternoon intrusion's, an shit falling threw or piling up. If their fanboy was sent here for corrective action he needs a new suit and a different line of work.
Two years before seeking redemption, and posting a video about it is well, a little odd, to me. I've always found a problem/issue not put on the correction path today, only gets worst over time, be it customer or Mfg'er.
 
#442
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">GF14 if you met Marc you would love the guy. Can not say enough good about him.</div></div>
Mike,
Don't know the smith an never directed any words towards him. If any were extruded that way it was not my intent. My issue is a two year wait before doing anything about a problem he (nraman) most probably knew was there. Then to grab a headline he releases said tape knowing the responce was going to be as seen, to gain leverage for his mistake. Now comes the fanboys who mostly want something to fill time on a subject, they are trying to understand via reading, instead of doing.
 
#443
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the customer in this cluster fuck, holds just as much if not more fault on this one.</div></div>

wtf? it's the customer's fault for expecting to get what he paid good money for? remind me never to buy from you if you are ever selling anything. </div></div>
Two years, and then it's a problem? He never knew enough in the beginning to know it was a problem, now he wants justice, explain that point of view. I don't sell shit on here, I came here for reasons you would never understand. </div></div>

I've got no horse in this race, but it's pretty clear based on the EXPERIENCES of numerous guys who've dealt with TR that this shitty workmanship is NOT an isolated incident. Combined with the sleazy and dishonest method of posing as a customer, while working for the company in question, the offense becomes less and less forgivable. Instead of trying to intimidate Frank with a toothless letter from an attorney, TR ought to have just made things right. I don't think the poser has any idea how damaging his disinformation campaign will be to TR, threads like these leave an indelible impression on folks.
 
#444
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My issue is a two year wait before doing anything about a problem he (nraman) most probably knew was there.</div></div>

Did you even read the original post by the rifle owner?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I received the rifle and noticed little chips on the stock around the barrel and a few blemishes in certain areas. After further inspection of the rifle the scope rail looked bent just by looking at it. I put a straight edge on it and it was out by an eighth of an inch, so I replaced it with a lugged Seekins rail, they reimbursed me for that. And last the trigger was very narrow and short in length to where you could not get a 90 degree trigger finger without coming in contact with the Badger bolt knob.

Due to the down turn in the economy the rifle sat in the safe for a few years, just lost interest in it with all the issues it had. So I finally found a reputable shop locally, Mark Soulie of Spartan Precision Rifles, to just install a Timney trigger for me and this is were it really begins.
</div></div>

You seem to be calling the OP a liar, without actually saying the word.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Then to grab a headline he releases said tape knowing the responce was going to be as seen, to gain leverage for his mistake.</div></div>

This is no new, unique, or earth-shattering response by a person who feels their concerns were unmet and they have not received value for their hard-earned bucks.

Consumer Reports doesn't exactly cover custom firearms...

A negative review of a tactical rifle, placed in a forum by people interested in tactical rifles, with video proof by a highly reputable gunsmith detailing the flaws found on the rifle.

Other than not having the rifle immediately checked out upon receiving it (without having reason to suspect workmanship issues other than cosmetics), I fail to see how the owner is in any way/shape/form culpable for anything.
 
#445
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

It seems to me Gunfighter's issue is time, but without knowing the owner, his experience level, in fact his personality, two years may not be unreasonable.

There are lots of shy people, there are people who get disenfranchised easily and will simply walk away rather than face the potential for conflict. When he met Marc he felt comfortable addressing the issue, because if you read the original post he did contact the company initially and was told, He couldn't shoot, so it was his fault not the rifle's. That leaves a mark to a new shooter.

Just yesterday my buddy posted an image on FB with a target from his GAP rifle, first time in two years since he shot the rifle and he had to mount a scope on it to do so... so for those not fully committed to precision rifles, time is not so much an issue. His stuff was sitting in the safe for two years...

There are a lot of ways of shutting a customer off or shutting them down. Just look at the surrogates posts and the heavy use of the words "operators" and "professionals" these are meant to intimidate people to thinking the problem is not with the company but with the experience level of the end user. Real Operators have no complaints so if you do, clearly you're not up to the standards of real operators....
 
#446
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a lot of ways of shutting a customer off or shutting them down... meant to intimidate people to thinking the problem is not with the company but with the experience level of the end user.</div></div>To be fair, this is an industry-wide problem in the high-end rifle and pistol niche markets and also a red flag: Usually a sign that the owner(s) of the company are too busy cashing-in to care anymore.
 
#447
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Usually a sign that the owner(s) of the company are too busy cashing-in to care any more. </div></div>
I've seen this first hand with Sticks, Glass, an Cans. Much like the Cell phone market. The amount of money flowing breeds contempt for after sale service. Then add a customer with self doubts, the mfg'er/builder/supplyer is never tested enough(if at all) to rethink their product or it's support.
 
#448
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

So your admitting that the rifle & smith are shit? And you're just mad that the OP didn't find out sooner? I'm glad we have people like you here on the hide to teach us. Now I know when I buy my first custom rig to immediately send it off to another smith to tell me whether or not it's good work or else I'm just a fanboy.

I really wish the ingore user function worked when I wasn't logged in. That way I would have to read this retarded shit anymore.
 
#449
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Gunfighter14e2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Gun rags will never have a bad review, we know that. My biggest issue is here comes a video by the corrective smith, and everything is taken to the bank, w/o any question at all. The fan boys piled up like chickens in hot weather to the point where nramans first post in this thread was bankable w/o question.
</div></div>

No fan boy here but I know Marc personally have have ZERO doubt that the rifle was exactly as shown/described in the video.

Edit: by not a fan boy doesn't mean I don't like Marc. I consider him a friend but if I felt he was falsifying or exaggerating in the video, I wouldn't defend it.
 
#450
Re: WARNING ~ TR ~ My experience

I can understand the OP in this case as I had a similiar instance occur to me with the very first flintlock I ever bought.

I was new to flintlocks and saw an ad in some colonial era magazine for a builder in Mississippi. Naturally I looked at his website and it looked great.

Bought/ordered a fowler (smooth bore .62 rifle) and it tokk about six months longer to arrive than I was told. I had called and was given the run around.

I never fired a live round, just some poder down the barrel at a reenactment and the stock cracked above the frizzen into the wrist. It wasn't dropped and I never even had a chance to clean it.

Called and asked what I could do...told by maker "tough luck".

I sat on it for a year trying to get the gun maker to change his mind and he got to a point where he would hang up, not anser emails and got mean. Took it to a friend I had met subsequently who was making firelocks and he said he would make me a new stock.

Turns out the original stock had been glue, screwed, and get this...filled with auto body bondo to try and strengthen the area around the lock and wrist as too much wood had been taken out.

I took photos and demanded to the original gun maker to offset the cost of the replacement stock. He then goes on an all out crusade against me and posts on many forums I am trouble.

I understand how the OP delayed his actions as I have been there
 
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