Rifle Scopes We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

[vjarnot]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

It's really simple and Premier will eventually see it:

The time for bullshit has passed.

That is to say: Any company who's business is dependent on keeping their customers in the dark will die - probably slowly, but inevitably nonetheless.

MAP is a stone-age distro/retail technique that [should have] died with the advent of the internet. Notice that I didn't say "internet shopping" - the key is <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> that I can buy online; the key is that I can easily connect with other customers and deduce a fair price (and/or learn about competing products).

Premier Reticles can try to restrict information, but at least one person in that organization must be smart enough to realize that it's a losing battle. Not only will they lose, they'll generate enough ill-will on the way to losing that it won't really matter...

You want to succeed? Get your product into as many hands as possible (assuming you believe in what you make).

You want to fail? Protect your 'brand' and premium pricing at the expense of selling your product.

Besides, what's so god-damn difficult? You want dealers to charge a premium price so that consumers will believe you sell a premium product? Just charge the dealers more. Where's the complication? Can't get enough dealers that way? In that case, maybe your product is not quite as premium as you had hoped.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I was never considering paying a startup company the same price for a scope as a proven company anyway. Ever. Why would anyone buy a Premier rather than a Nightforce, Schimdt, or a USO if its American made that's getting to ya?

Not enough time in the trenches for them in my view. Nope!

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Well you all are light years ahead of me in this subject. Maybe it's because I find it boring. Nothing about it goes bang or breaks the sound barrier. Go figure!

I've got a couple of questions that might help me to understand this better, or, at lease make it more interesting.

1) How come I don't see any used PR scopes in the for sale section?

2) Are you going to stop buying from all scope manufacturers that hold to this policy or just PR?

Carry on!

 

[ChrisF]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes


Hi Jeff ,

Some times their is a delay , between some one saying they will do something , and actually doing it .

Me I have been busy , working on shift & planning my Holiday , and have not Gotten around to IT .

I have 2x Premiers , a 3-15x & a 5-25x , both DT & the XR reticle , anyone one wants one drop me a PM .

Opps , that was simple ,

And whan I looked a few mintes ago , I saw some Premiers for sale ,


Later Chris

 

[bth87]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffersonv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well you all are light years ahead of me in this subject. Maybe it's because I find it boring. Nothing about it goes bang or breaks the sound barrier. Go figure!

I've got a couple of questions that might help me to understand this better, or, at lease make it more interesting.

1) How come I don't see any used PR scopes in the for sale section?

2) Are you going to stop buying from all scope manufacturers that hold to this policy or just PR?

Carry on!</div></div>

Exactly what I was thinking, I would venture to say all those who are saying they want to get rid of their premiers are unwilling to do so at the moment due the the potential of the scopes value being reduced by these threads. So in effect people are holding off the sale of their scopes for the very same reason PR suspended LO's dealership, the potential devaluation of their product. All of those screaming bloody murder about MAP and price fixing might want to take a step back and think about that. There is a high cost in producing high end optics and often times the margins are not that great (I know Ive made a living selling high end optics)so manufactures must come up with a way to protect their business and stay afloat.

 

[recce556]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The only reason you don't see my PR for sale is because of the 100 count post minimum. I would post it immediately otherwise.

5-25x Gen2 XR MIL/MIL. All you people talking shit siding with PR, how about you pay me near retail for it? I didn't think so....

 

[bth87]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recce556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason you don't see my PR for sale is because of the 100 count post minimum. I would post it immediately otherwise.

5-25x Gen2 XR MIL/MIL. All you people talking shit siding with PR, how about you pay me near retail for it? I didn't think so....</div></div>

So your are saying that you would sell your scope for significantly less than you paid for it as a function of principle? if so I'd be happy to give you $1000 to take that scope off your hands, however something tells me you wont bite on that deal. I'm simply saying people want an equitable return on investment and at the end of the day words are nothing more than that and the dollar drives peoples decisions.

 

[KYS]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recce556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason you don't see my PR for sale is because of the 100 count post minimum. I would post it immediately otherwise.

5-25x Gen2 XR MIL/MIL. All you people talking shit siding with PR, how about you pay me near retail for it? I didn't think so.... </div></div>

Sounds like you are trying to post if for sale...... under that 100 count minimum. Might want to rethink your post.

 

[cttbax]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

PR...you're FIRED!

 

[vjarnot]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So in effect people are holding off the sale of their scopes for the very same reason PR suspended LO's dealership, the potential devaluation of their product. All of those screaming bloody murder about MAP and price fixing might want to take a step back and think about that.</div></div>

Nope. You can say that it's for "the very same reason" but that doesn't make it so. Dictating a minimum sales price to your dealer network is not even remotely the same thing as timing the market when selling a used product.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a high cost in producing high end optics and often times the margins are not that great (I know Ive made a living selling high end optics)so manufactures must come up with a way to protect their business and stay afloat. </div></div>

Their actions prove that the margins are high enough that they need to restrict dealers to a minimum sale price. We have first-hand proof that you can sell 'em for less and still make a living.

 

[Jason280]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

The amount of ignorance in this thread is simply astounding. People have no idea how commonplace MAP is in the business world, yet they believe PR is the only one practicing it. What's even more amazing is the majority of these people, who were already otherwise not Premier customers, think their posturing and chest puffing really make a difference. Its nothing more than the latest internet bandwagon, and everyone wants to jump on board (regardless of whether they understand what's actually going on).

I completely understand the support for Liberty Optics, but we've already seen that there may be a lot more to the story than being divulged. In fact, that's almost always the case. I honestly feel that the most professional manner in which this could have been handled would have been behind closed doors, not wide open on the internet. I think we will find in the end that this hurts both LO and PR, and in no way helps either. One thing it has clearly shown is Liberty Optics is not shy or hesitant in airing its dirty laundry online. I have little doubt there was a better way to handle this for all involved, and I firmly believe it should not have included all of Sniper's Hide.

 

[338LM]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To whom it may concern at Premier reticles,
1) Do you remember when you didn't want to repair a Leupold sent in for repair that had your reticle, supposedly because the reticle that you manufactured wasn't available anymore. What happened when the "Hide" got involved??

2) Do you remember when people that paid retail on preorders recieved their scopes after everyone who got them at discounted prices??

3) Do you remember when your scope was originally projected to cost 1500,1700,2000,2200,2500,2700....dollars??

3) Do you remember when Scott took you on to help out your cashflow; to free up some of your funds??

4) Where do you get off thinking that a scope that has parts made in NUNYA (Taiwan) should have the same percieved value as a Schmidt & Bender??

5) Can anyother manufacturer claim your return rate for failures or malfunctions; including Barska or whomever?

6) Whatever happened to your supposed USMC contract??

7) Whatever happened to your Made in the USA claims??

8) Do you think those employees that you fired the day before Christmas had a good one??

9) You knew for years the prices Scott was selling your scopes because you needed the revenue, now he is expendable??

10) Do you pay anything to USO for their MTC design and is their patent on your product while you demand them to pay for your reticle and display your patent?

For years you've been trying to lay it to the American Public!

Like I said an explanation/apology w/ no substance!</div></div>

+1

 

[recce556]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So your are saying that you would sell your scope for significantly less than you paid for it as a function of principle? if so I'd be happy to give you $1000 to take that scope off your hands, however something tells me you wont bite on that deal. I'm simply saying people want an equitable return on investment and at the end of the day words are nothing more than that and the dollar drives peoples decisions. </div></div>
Where did you see me say that I would sell it for significantly less? However, I will be selling it as a function of principle. Since you seem to back PR, why do you pay me full retail for it? Yeah, I didn't you'd bite on that.

PR is not getting less money from LO. LO is just making less margin so your argument falls flat on its face.

 

[recce556]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like you are trying to post if for sale...... under that 100 count minimum. Might want to rethink your post. </div></div>
Nope, I never listed a price nor did I directly list it for sale. I'm merely responding to bth87's post...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Exactly what I was thinking, I would venture to say all those who are saying they want to get rid of their premiers are unwilling to do so at the moment due the the potential of the scopes value being reduced by these threads. So in effect people are holding off the sale of their scopes for the very same reason PR suspended LO's dealership, the potential devaluation of their product. All of those screaming bloody murder about MAP and price fixing might want to take a step back and think about that.</div></div>

 

[BCP]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bth87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Exactly</div></div>

Not really. There's been several premiers in the last week (I know, sniper's hide search function is hard-to-do) and I don't see Vortex, Valdada, Nightforce or USO letting their middleman 'sting' dealers for the benefit of said middleman.

 

[Turk]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

How about this for a solution; the vendor doesn't have to pay the manufacturer until the product sells for MAP! Unfortunately not the case w/ most manufacturers; usually a vendor has 30 days to pay in full! So put yourself in the vendors shoes; what would you do??? Do you give up the right to be able to payback the manufacturer in a timely fashion because you can't sell below MAP? Good way to choke out the little guy ha?

 

[wfjames22]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: recce556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The only reason you don't see my PR for sale is because of the 100 count post minimum. I would post it immediately otherwise.

5-25x Gen2 XR MIL/MIL. All you people talking shit siding with PR, how about you pay me near retail for it? I didn't think so.... </div></div>

Pretty sure your are grandfathered in since you have been here since 2008.....therefore able to post an item for sale with 50 posts. All you have to do is try and start a topic in the optics for sale forum. If it allows you to do so, you are in the clear. Money where your mouth is time.....

 

[stefan73]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason280</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The amount of ignorance in this thread is simply astounding. People have no idea how commonplace MAP is in the business world, yet they believe PR is the only one practicing it. What's even more amazing is the majority of these people, who were already otherwise not Premier customers, think their posturing and chest puffing really make a difference. Its nothing more than the latest internet bandwagon, and everyone wants to jump on board (regardless of whether they understand what's actually going on).

I completely understand the support for Liberty Optics, but we've already seen that there may be a lot more to the story than being divulged. In fact, that's almost always the case. I honestly feel that the most professional manner in which this could have been handled would have been behind closed doors, not wide open on the internet. I think we will find in the end that this hurts both LO and PR, and in no way helps either. One thing it has clearly shown is Liberty Optics is not shy or hesitant in airing its dirty laundry online. I have little doubt there was a better way to handle this for all involved, and I firmly believe it should not have included all of Sniper's Hide. </div></div>

We understand what the Minimum "Advertised" Price is and that it is common. How common is it to enforce that as a Minimum "Sale" Price. Either call it like it is or just lie about it like the mentioned orgs did. MAP is not the MSP.

I'm not sure if you get that?

The real issue is the method used to enforce this also! T Dean was pretty underhanded and by PR admission a liar!

 

[Rundownfid]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Not that it really needs said again, but this seems to boil down to a brick and mortar model of retail sales vs an internet model. While I appreciate the attempt to prop up brick and mortar businesses, I believe it will inevitably fail. Premier Heritage is, at bottom, saying is that they will artificially raise their prices in order to allow brick and mortar stores to compete. This is their prerogative, however I would not buy a scope for 100s of dollars more simply because it is helping local dealers appear more competitive. After-all my primary interest is myself.

I wish Premier Heritage good luck with their marketing plan. However, I won't support it with my money. When I buy my next scope it most likely will be off the net and I will get a price hundreds of dollars less than from a brick and mortar store. If one wishes to fondle a scope before purchase that is their business. If that desire costs them hundreds of dollars that is also their business. My business will go to Scott or one of his real competitors, on the net.

 

[Scimitar]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Originally Posted By: TurkTo whom it may concern at Premier reticles,
1) Do you remember when you didn't want to repair a Leupold sent in for repair that had your reticle, supposedly because the reticle that you manufactured wasn't available anymore. What happened when the "Hide" got involved??

2) Do you remember when people that paid retail on preorders recieved their scopes after everyone who got them at discounted prices??

3) Do you remember when your scope was originally projected to cost 1500,1700,2000,2200,2500,2700....dollars??

3) Do you remember when Scott took you on to help out your cashflow; to free up some of your funds??

4) Where do you get off thinking that a scope that has parts made in NUNYA (Taiwan) should have the same percieved value as a Schmidt & Bender??

5) Can anyother manufacturer claim your return rate for failures or malfunctions; including Barska or whomever?

6) Whatever happened to your supposed USMC contract??

7) Whatever happened to your Made in the USA claims??

8) Do you think those employees that you fired the day before Christmas had a good one??

9) You knew for years the prices Scott was selling your scopes because you needed the revenue, now he is expendable??

10) Do you pay anything to USO for their MTC design and is their patent on your product while you demand them to pay for your reticle and display your patent?

For years you've been trying to lay it to the American Public!








Those are enough reasons not to buy Premier, this is another.
USO or S&B for me. Or maybe that new Bushnell with the H58.

 

[Rude Robert]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Actually, they are ugly scopes. They may be okay, but they looked cheap to me. Just never wanted to bring that up since, it is just my opinion

 

[Lucks]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that it really needs said again, but this seems to boil down to a brick and mortar model of retail sales vs an internet model. While I appreciate the attempt to prop up brick and mortar businesses, I believe it will inevitably fail. Premier Heritage is, at bottom, saying is that they will artificially raise their prices in order to allow brick and mortar stores to compete. This is their prerogative, however I would not buy a scope for 100s of dollars more simply because it is helping local dealers appear more competitive. After-all my primary interest is myself.

I wish Premier Heritage good luck with their marketing plan. However, I won't support it with my money. When I buy my next scope it most likely will be off the net and I will get a price hundreds of dollars less than from a brick and mortar store. If one wishes to fondle a scope before purchase that is their business. If that desire costs them hundreds of dollars that is also their business. My business will go to Scott or one of his real competitors, on the net. </div></div>

Good luck to you. Hope you enjoy your ebay world. Send your money to someone over the internet. When the local brick and mortar businesses in your community close, then I'm sure you'll love your new town. It's always awesome in a city when businesses close...people can't find jobs, property values decline, crime increases, and on top of that your taxes increase....money has to come from somewhere to run those schools,etc...too bad it's not coming from the local brick and mortar businesses you wouldn't support...

 

[223ai]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

+1 Lucks. I support Brick and Mortar mom and pops when I can. It's oftentimes a wash in price, and I get the local support if things go wrong.

Now if we could only get the local gun/reloading stores to stock the good stuff...

 

[nuggetman]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

Crossing Premier of my list of future purchases.

 

[X-man21]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

I always that Premiere was over pricing their optics.To be honest I rather buy USO I knew John Sr. when he was alive he was great to deal with his son is a good guy to I also like S&B and NF. I'll spend my money there not at Premiere especially not there.

 

[brutus1776]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

"I was never considering paying a startup company the same price for a scope as a proven company anyway. "

this. for sure.

when everyone was going nuts over PR scopes and pre ordering... then when the knob problems surfaced, i felt bad for all the guys dropping that much coin and waiting so long and already having problems as soon as the scopes arrived.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not that it really needs said again, but this seems to boil down to a brick and mortar model of retail sales vs an internet model. While I appreciate the attempt to prop up brick and mortar businesses, I believe it will inevitably fail. Premier Heritage is, at bottom, saying is that they will artificially raise their prices in order to allow brick and mortar stores to compete. This is their prerogative, however I would not buy a scope for 100s of dollars more simply because it is helping local dealers appear more competitive. After-all my primary interest is myself.

I wish Premier Heritage good luck with their marketing plan. However, I won't support it with my money. When I buy my next scope it most likely will be off the net and I will get a price hundreds of dollars less than from a brick and mortar store. If one wishes to fondle a scope before purchase that is their business. If that desire costs them hundreds of dollars that is also their business. My business will go to Scott or one of his real competitors, on the net. </div></div>

Good luck to you. Hope you enjoy your ebay world. Send your money to someone over the internet. When the local brick and mortar businesses in your community close, then I'm sure you'll love your new town. It's always awesome in a city when businesses close...people can't find jobs, property values decline, crime increases, and on top of that your taxes increase....money has to come from somewhere to run those schools,etc...too bad it's not coming from the local brick and mortar businesses you wouldn't support...
</div></div>That was a little trite. The reality is that businesses need to adjust in order to compete. I am currently working on a new rifle build and there isn't a gun store in Houston that sells custom actions. Through the hide I found a couple of traditional manufacturers that also have a web presence to help their customers. It is going to be one of these internet companies like Surgeon, Stiller or Defiance that is going to end up with my business. I have repeatedly checked on the availablity of optics at various brick and mortar businesses in town, if I want to get a low end Leopold then I'm in luck. If I want a high end version, then I need to go with an internet company again.

To me it all comes down to customer service and how much extra effort people are willing to put in.

 

[Lucks]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> That was a little trite. The reality is that businesses need to adjust in order to compete. I am currently working on a new rifle build and there isn't a gun store in Houston that sells custom actions. Through the hide I found a couple of traditional manufacturers that also have a web presence to help their customers. It is going to be one of these internet companies like Surgeon, Stiller or Defiance that is going to end up with my business. I have repeatedly checked on the availablity of optics at various brick and mortar businesses in town, if I want to get a low end Leopold then I'm in luck. If I want a high end version, then I need to go with an internet company again.

To me it all comes down to customer service and how much extra effort people are willing to put in. </div></div>

If you can't find what you need locally, then by all means find it on the internet.

I just got my feathers ruffled because he basically said brick and mortars were destined to fail and that he was going to spend his money wherever he saved the most. I just wanted to point out that there is sometimes a bigger "cost" to all that money you think you are "saving".

 

[300sniper]

Re: We no longer sell Premier Heritage riflescopes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rude Robert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, they are ugly scopes. They may be okay, but they looked cheap to me. Just never wanted to bring that up since, it is just my opinion </div></div>

lol. you never wanted to bring that up until it was cool to bash them? gotcha. way to be an original thinker.