Yes if it has iron in it. The ss pins will rust if not dried properly just like a ss rifle!
All stainless steel alloys have iron in them.
It's the % of nickel the alloy that determines whether it's magnetic or not.
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Yes if it has iron in it. The ss pins will rust if not dried properly just like a ss rifle!
On most 400 series alloys, yesSo neodymium magnets work on stainless steel?
Well said.Here we go again.
Unless you measure the force it takes to seat a bullet to a consistent location, your feel is BS. I'm an engineer, and a lot of people here are either same or are in professions where data matters and feelings don't mean a thing. We don't care how something feels. We care how something IS, and we care even more what effect something has on the end result. That's why full factorial experiments are useful. They show you how much influence each variable that you test for has on the system output. Full factorial experiments also let you test more than one variable at once (something I'm told is impossible) but I digress.
Did you feel 30 lbs of force to seat the bullet? Or did you feel 32? Or did you feel 50? Did that difference matter to accuracy? How do you know? What other factors could cause MV variation and did you isolate them out?
What if you wet tumble without SS pins? What if you wet tumble for 30 min instead of two hours?
Reloading is probably THE number 1 repository of bullshit and old wives tales in the gun world.
So neodymium magnets work on stainless steel?
They can’t rust if you leave 3” of water in the bottom of the tumblerYes if it has iron in it. The ss pins will rust if not dried properly just like a ss rifle!
Just because you can't does not mean no one can. If you can't feel (yes I said the feels word) the difference between 1 pound and 5 pounds thats sad actually. I've turned enough torque wrenches to where I am confident that I can tell when I am within about 20 percent of correct torque. But yes I always use a torque wrench on critical connections set to the proper torque. But what happens when that harbor freight torque wrench you ingeniirs are using fails? Since you don't believe in feels i guess you keep cranking till you snap that bolt and then say "but mys torks wrench didntz goez klicky....." No one is claiming to be able to exactly tell a force by feel but for Christs sake you should be able to tell when something is different from before or just doesn't "feel" right.I would have said "typical comment of someone who just got butthurt" but whatever.
The amount of people who have calibrated trigger fingers and can apparently measure 2oz, and accurately tell me what the weight of any rifle is, should put trigger pull gauge companies out of business. Secondly is people who have vernier scales tattoo'd to their eyeballs and tell me how long or big something is.
Yes people can learn, but even the most seasoned veteran can't do shit compared to the correct measuring equip, which is why we use it.
Reloading. Results are down range, not arguments on the internuts.
Thank you for sharing your experience.What you do to the neck surface absolutely impacts ES
I switched to ultrasonic when it was the rage. Yup the cases looked clean inside and out. What we noticed is that some of our ammo did indeed start to have higher ES, first, it showed up on paper at 1000 then we when measured of an Ohler 35 it was confirmed.
We decided we'd try to figure out what changed so we spent 4 months with our 308s (remember those) shooting and logging ES at least 2x weekly. Using a really expensive Sartorius lab balance (better than our A&Ds today), cases sorted by weight, then by H2O, bullets sorted by weight, and then ogive and even the primers; the brass was also uniformed primer pockets and flash holes. We used Arbor presses with Wilson micrometer arbor seaters to document the seating force and sorted. We also added in brushing the necks, polishing the necks, using dry lube, as is, and an annealing test. Sure it was only a couple of guys comparing the same procedures, but the results were amazingly similar.
View attachment 7595255
What we noticed is the number 1 determining factor in ES was neck seating force, either too light (wrong bushing or over annealed) combined with a jump (light worked fine soft seated by jamming into the lands) or inconsistent force. There also seemed to be a range of measurable force that produced the most consistent results when you had .030 for so jump. BTW your just NOT going to be able to feel differences in a regular press with the leverage except for the very extreme.
Long story short, our 2 Ultrasonics were indeed producing worse ES' than shooting and dry media tumbling, especially true if the chemical was strong or the process too long. Following some of the best benchrest guys we also tested, shooting without tumbling at all, and found excellent results.
I no longer follow the extremes of reloading and sorting, and really do not worry about shiny brass from a bolt gun. Hell, it hardly even get dirty. For me, I've settled on cutting my reloading time and only using the parts that matter the most.
Super shinny brass is cool to look at but a pain in the ass to create only to shoot.
I never said I can't feel the difference. When a customer is paying for a service, they expect a qualified tradesman to use the correct and calibrated tools for the job, not "I have a really good feel for this sort of thing, trust me" guy.Just because you can't does not mean no one can. If you can't feel (yes I said the feels word) the difference between 1 pound and 5 pounds thats sad actually. I've turned enough torque wrenches to where I am confident that I can tell when I am within about 20 percent of correct torque. But yes I always use a torque wrench on critical connections set to the proper torque. But what happens when that harbor freight torque wrench you ingeniirs are using fails? Since you don't believe in feels i guess you keep cranking till you snap that bolt and then say "but mys torks wrench didntz goez klicky....." No one is claiming to be able to exactly tell a force by feel but for Christs sake you should be able to tell when something is different from before or just doesn't "feel" right.
Used to reload .44 mag never lubed the inside of the case neck just made sure that everything was set to the same depth just kept the barrel and throat clean and put a few thousand rounds through without a single issue accuracy was good may be I was luckyGrowing up we media tumbled what a mess. Then we got a sonic cleaner big improvement. Now I got a wet tumbler and wow night and day difference looks like brand new cases.
Wants and needs are 2 very different things.Do we need to clean bolt action brass anyways? If it’s not dropping on the ground do we really need to?
So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?Not apples to apples because new brass is polished which cuts down on friction. When you strip the surface of brass and then dry it it’s going to create a lot more friction than a polished surface would. This is why one answer to wet tumbling issues is to dry tumble/polish for a short time after drying the cases.
Even so a lot of it depends on what is “normal” to you. I know what optimal neck tension feels like when I seat a bullet. I expand necks on most new brass because it has way too much neck tension if I don’t. Usually the mandrel is really difficult to get in and out because the new brass is so clean. Even when I have to expand fired brass significantly, the mandrel goes in and out easily because a layer of carbon keeps friction down.
I do. I assume that you are using a neck bushing in the fl?So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?
So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?
I used to (as alluded to earlier), use extreme process to load and so much of the expensive from 21st Century and K&M with just about every step imaginable. I just didn’t have time or love for that anymore.So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?
Extra work and inconsistent.Is there any reason not to lube the bullets to get easier seating
Thinking a light spray with one shot and letting it dry, leaves a light coat of wax on the bullet to help seating.
Dennis
So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?
Not typically. If I’ve got too much tension for some reason I will. I do use a mandrel on new brass. And sometimes it is pretty sticky if it needs much stretch.So when you FL resize fired brass, do you use a Mandrel after?
Reason not to is that you don’t need to when you have carbon on the neck and .0015-.002 neck tension. The bullet basically falls inside the case with zero resistance. And it may make @308pirate and other engineers’ heads explode that I can tell you that I have .002 neck tension just from feeling the seating resistance, but it’s true. If I stainless tumbled and had varying friction on the necks that wouldn’t be possible.Is there any reason not to lube the bullets to get easier seating
Thinking a light spray with one shot and letting it dry, leaves a light coat of wax on the bullet to help seating.
Dennis
I can see the time saving in the "one step" process.
On a different note I don't have to measure, reset bushings or anything to get a consistant nt.
I would theorize that your double mandrel loads are better because the mandrel is ironing/smoothing the neck out and making for a consistent surface. If you’re using mixed brass this would help for sure. Using mixed brass with a neck bushing is not ever going to be very consistent.Well that is a good explination and I have tried polishing my expanders to the same 0.002 staring with 0.001.
Some how I get better results running a 3.5 -4 thousands expander in a fls die and the separate 0.002 21st Century mandrell .
I have no idea of what makes it different or how it works but the groups have tightened.
I use a lot of range brass for 223 and some times orther calibers especially for plinkers.
I sort headstamps and make a run.
If I could get the same results and eliminate the extra step I would gladly.
My hands are still swollen from the reloading bench last nite and only half batch done.
This one extra step really improved the rounds for my sons 308 rounds. He came by after the last range trip with some cloverleaf holes (4 shots) saving on testing supplies.
That was the only change to the brass, and want's me to chisel that load in concrete. Lol
I tried bushing dies for that gun and failed miserably.
Maybe I'm just incompetent with a bushing die setup.
You might have missed the solve; using neck bushings with custom expander mandrels, does the same as a separate mandrel. BTW if you set it up correctly, you'll end up getting many more reloads this way before having to anneal vs FL non-bushing that tends to oversize the neck then really pull the expander ball through, then running an expander mandrel again. BTW most guys I know using a 2nd step mandrel are using either a custom or bushing die without expander, then using the mandrel to keep from overworking stuff.I would theorize that your double mandrel loads are better because the mandrel is ironing/smoothing the neck out and making for a consistent surface. If you’re using mixed brass this would help for sure. Using mixed brass with a neck bushing is not ever going to be very consistent.
I STM tumble and found the need to lube bullets/necks almost immediately. Annealing on top of squeaky clean brass made it even stickier... SD & ES grew from a low and predictable number to something nearly double with no other changes. Ammo sits sometimes overnight or several weeks before shooting.
I started using industrial die wax on my bullets before seating about 5 years ago in an effort to get my numbers back down and have been successful and added no time to my reloading methodology.
Have roasted several barrels since, no issues, and that $10 in die wax is still at about 75%.
What wax brand are you using? I did a test with imperial sizing wax on case neck & bullets. Over a tiny 10 shots sample of each, the neck waxing was slightly better at SD 6 ES 12, wax bullets SD 9 ES 29. I noticed the wax was scraping off my bullets as I seated, which I assume was giving less consistent results.
What you do to the neck surface absolutely impacts ES
I switched to ultrasonic when it was the rage. Yup the cases looked clean inside and out. What we noticed is that some of our ammo did indeed start to have higher ES, first, it showed up on paper at 1000 then we when measured off an Ohler 35 it was confirmed.
We decided we'd try to figure out what changed so we spent 4 months with our 308s (remember those) shooting and logging ES at least 2x weekly. Using a really expensive Sartorius lab balance (better than our A&Ds today), cases sorted by weight, then by H2O, bullets sorted by weight, and then ogive and even the primers; the brass was also uniformed primer pockets and flash holes. We used Arbor presses with Wilson micrometer arbor seaters to document the seating force and sorted. We also added in brushing the necks, polishing the necks, using dry lube, as is, and an annealing test. Sure it was only a couple of guys comparing the same procedures, but the results were amazingly similar.
View attachment 7595255
What we noticed is the number 1 determining factor in ES was neck seating force, either too light (wrong bushing or over annealed) combined with a jump (light worked fine soft seated by jamming into the lands) or inconsistent force. There also seemed to be a range of measurable force that produced the most consistent results when you had .030 for so jump. BTW your just NOT going to be able to feel differences in a regular press with the leverage except for the very extreme.
Long story short, our 2 Ultrasonics were indeed producing worse ES' than shooting and dry media tumbling, especially true if the chemical was strong or the process too long. Following some of the best benchrest guys, we also tested, shooting without tumbling at all, and found excellent results.
I no longer follow the extremes of reloading and sorting; and really do not worry about shiny brass. Shot from a bolt gun, it hardly even get dirty. For me, I've settled on cutting my reloading time and only using the parts that matter the most.
Super shinny brass is cool to look at but a pain in the ass to create only to shoot.
Coat your bullets if one is that concerned with it. Has its own caveats though.Has anyone tried a way of getting a "hardcoat" wax by wet tumbling on brass or bullets?
Maybe alcohol and wax mixture?
Alcohol and wax dunk cap for the wet process brass after it has dried. Possibly just neck deep like the way you use grafite.
I have grafite but make a mess all the time, one fingerprints worth goes a long way.
Has anyone tried a way of getting a "hardcoat" wax by wet tumbling on brass or bullets?
Maybe alcohol and wax mixture?
Alcohol and wax dunk cap for the wet process brass after it has dried. Possibly just neck deep like the way you use grafite.
I have grafite but make a mess all the time, one fingerprints worth goes a long way.
They should all feel the same. If not I’d say you’ve got brass that’s too hard or mixed brass that’s not consistent. Ive never tried it but wouldn’t think you should be able to insert it by hand either way.On a side note for you guys using a mandrel. How tight does the mandrel fit after you run it? I pulled my mandrel out of the die and was going through each case by hand. I was getting some cases where the mandrel went in easy and others where it would not go in at all. Most were a tight fit but could be twisted in and out.