What do I do now?

[tacops1]

Most rifles / barrels are not ever capable of 0s and 1s consistently, and even then there is a small and finite window in which the ones that can, will. Not every blank is created equal, and no magic reamer design or other “special process” is going to change that.

Just many of Mikes are doing so. Can’t deny.

.223 3 shot group at 110 yards

I’ll go with the majority and choose mikes rifles where I can use FGMM and Fed Tactical tip ammo Not hand load and get better than the majority does with hand loads.

It’s all personal preference at the end of the day , but for a working gun I’ll take Mikes level of building in this trade if I can get one and afford One.

To each their own on builders there is a lot of Guys who make great rifles, though I know there are fan boy clubs, income clubs that limit to certain thing they can afford, and followers who likes what their friends/coworkers have. In the end after using them all I’ll take a tacops any day. SAC builds a great rifles from what I heard. My surgeon shoots under 1/4” constantly w FGMM but it’s a AI Chassis and wouldn’t hesitate to own another but I would have Mike build it on their action

 

[tacops1]

All that presumes that you can shoot in the 1s or better on command.

Exactly I see guys on here take their AI’s to the club and shoot 2”+ groups

It’s a lot to do with shooter ability lol

 

[tacops1]

I think when your an operator who can come out constantly and make 500 yard cold bore shots like this tacops is a fine choice

Guess them screws torqued to “500 “ could be just part of the excellence but again FGMM and shooter ability

 

[tacops1]

Or in a tacops 6.5 CM bipod on the farm 140 grain 4 shot group pull one round and F up and still shoot better than the majority ...again factory ammo shooter ability

 

[tacops1]

lte82 said:
I've personally shot a Tac Ops rifle. It did not shoot 0's, in fact on average it was barely sub 1/2 moa, and with certain factory ammo it was not even a 1/2 moa rifle, more like barely sub moa.

I gotta ask how can you say not sub moa lol that’s a joke right

 

[tacops1]

As far as factory ammo goes, mike puts cut into the barrel FGM lol

 

[6brshooter]

All that presumes that you can shoot in the 1s or better on command.

Lol, pretty sure his groups answer that.

 

[6brshooter]

I gotta ask how can you say not sub moa lol that’s a joke right

Bro, calm down, no one said anything about anyone's mother, lol. Lte82 said some factory ammo was barely moa, not all or not fgmm. That ai 5 shot group was with one type of factory ammo, i sure as shit dont expect it to shoot every 308 match factory ammo like that. Probably wouldn't shoot a different lot of same ammo that good. Ive had several br rigs that were scary accurate, but as lte stated,, that level of accuracy is only for a small window.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

To answer the original question, I would take the rifle and use it for what it was intended to do. Some days perfection simply isn't possible. On such days I take what I can get.

You ask if your expectations are impossible, and I say no (they are not impossible), but I also say that by specifying much of the components list, you are making the whole process more and more dependent upon your own choices. That could be a significant part of the difficulties you are experiencing.

Why take it and use it? Well, the difference of 1/4MOA in expectation and performance is probably far from being the most significant factor in group size variation. As precision shooters, we live in a world of external conditions that are both difficult to define and to demonstrate. I can't shoot well enough to either confirm or deny that sort of difference conclusively. I'm supposing I'm not alone in this.

Doing as I suggest will most likely also eliminate a significant issue; personal frustration. That's a factor that can damn one to a bad day before they can even sit down at a bench to begin the process for the day.

I have little doubt that the solution, or even several solutions, exist in the suggestions given above; but I also point out that they would come at some considerable distance down a long road that could get even longer. Your questions come at what must be a crossroads in your thinking. One of the options offered is to cut your losses.

My approach at this time would be bring in the other participant, the gunsmith. It's already been established that this is a reasonable and responsible person. Their opinion is valuable. I would simply ask them for their best advice as to what to do next, while you are asking the rest of us the same question.

Whatever the outcome of this, there will likely be another build in your future. Unsolicited, I still offer a different approach.

I would define the goals the rifle would be intended to meet. Include costs. I would confirm at that point that both you and the gunsmith can agree that this is achievable. I would then ask the gunsmith for an RFP (Request for Proposal), to design, from scratch, a rifle that has the best probability of meeting those goals. My best guess is that the gunsmith has already been refining his own ideas about meeting such goals for years, maybe even decades.

We all start out believing that perfection is possible and that we ourselves can obtain it with a reasonable investment. That was my strategy when we did our first project rifle here at SH, the Ghost Dancer 260 back in 2001. It was a supremely simple concept and I simply asked several vendors to come up with those products they thought might best serve. They did so, and some did it at cost and one for no cost whatever. There were four rifles involved, and I doubt that approach had been attempted before or since. We got lucky, far luckier that we probably deserved.

But the point that stood out was that when it comes to designing and building guns, when I sit down with a gunsmith to do this, there's only one professional in the room, and I'm not that guy.

When the RFP comes back, it's all down to price, time, and costs; little else should need be discussed.

Greg

 

[tacops1]

Bro, calm down, no one said anything about anyone's mother, lol. Lte82 said some factory ammo was barely moa, not all or not fgmm. That ai 5 shot group was with one type of factory ammo, i sure as shit dont expect it to shoot every 308 match factory ammo like that. Probably wouldn't shoot a different lot of same ammo that good. Ive had several br rigs that were scary accurate, but as lte stated,, that level of accuracy is only for a small window.

Bro what he said was quoted i am calm no need to get worked up here. I just think it’s a big false hood that a tacops was barely sub moa although feed it junk it don’t like could be shooting bad but feed it what it’s designed to shoot and smile. I just know if I own mikes gun what to shoot out of it no need to buy 20 boxes of various stuff it’s likes one or two things already ya know

 

[Klemm]

I have a Tac Ops, this thing is a fucking hammer. I just got back from the range and it puts them all in the same fucking hole. Not outside edge to outside edge, in the same hole with factory ammo. I’m going to buy another one in 300 WinMag.

 

[HellcatActual]

as someone who is debating on building guns and spinning chambers in the future, I have learned an invaluable amount of information in this thread, more than I could have imagined.

Im happy to see OP getting taken care of.

I was in his shoes with a DIFFERENT builder. I purchased a guaranteed factory ammo gun and didnt have great results. But I learned so much in the precess to get it to shoot I was happy to suffer through it.

 

[lte82]

https

Bro what he said was quoted i am calm no need to get worked up here. I just think it’s a big false hood that a tacops was barely sub moa although feed it junk it don’t like could be shooting bad but feed it what it’s designed to shoot and smile. I just know if I own mikes gun what to shoot out of it no need to buy 20 boxes of various stuff it’s likes one or two things already ya know

TACTICAL OPERATIONS TANGO-51 – FULL REVIEW - Sniper Central

It was time to take the latest version of the Tango-51 out for a full test and see how they still hold up.

www.snipercentral.com

Average across all groups (3 shot groups at that) with three brands of factory ammo was not even .50. That said, it’s still great for what it is! Leading non-shooters and weekend warriors to believe that if their gun isn’t shooting .2s all day that something must be wrong is what I have an issue with. 1/2 moa with a tactical rifle and factory ammo is awesome if consistent. I’d guess that people are winning big PRS matches with guns that are less accurate.

 

[tacops1]

https

TACTICAL OPERATIONS TANGO-51 – FULL REVIEW - Sniper Central

It was time to take the latest version of the Tango-51 out for a full test and see how they still hold up.

www.snipercentral.com

Average across all groups (3 shot groups at that) with three brands of factory ammo was not even .50. That said, it’s still great for what it is! Leading non-shooters and weekend warriors to believe that if their gun isn’t shooting .2s all day that something must be wrong is what I have an issue with. 1/2 moa with a tactical rifle and factory ammo is awesome if consistent. I’d guess that people are winning big PRS matches with guns that are less accurate.

Please read this paragraph in your own post

Our average group was not far away from .25 MOA (regardless of our shooting) and when we did things right, the results were sub .25 MOA. The Federal was not quiet as consistently tight and while we did go sub .25, it took work on our part to get there. The rifle really didn’t care much for the RUAG, but with that being said, we need to put it in perspective that it was still .5 MOA. Is the rifle a sub .25 MOA rifle? Yep, it sure is.

 

[lte82]

Please read this paragraph in your own post

Our average group was not far away from .25 MOA (regardless of our shooting) and when we did things right, the results were sub .25 MOA. The Federal was not quiet as consistently tight and while we did go sub .25, it took work on our part to get there. The rifle really didn’t care much for the RUAG, but with that being said, we need to put it in perspective that it was still .5 MOA. Is the rifle a sub .25 MOA rifle? Yep, it sure is.

You win. Clearly the outlying groups were flukes and it’s really .2 moa or better.

 

[308pirate]

Most rifles / barrels are not ever capable of 0s and 1s consistently, and even then there is a small and finite window in which the ones that can, will. Not every blank is created equal, and no magic reamer design or other “special process” is going to change that.

So roundabout way of saying "if I can't do it it can't be done"

 

[tacops1]

You win. Clearly the outlying groups were flukes and it’s really .2 moa or better.

Lol I mean ya see the best group was .1’s and .2’s i would take that and run any day knowing the lesser was me and the gun can out shoot me

I mean watch the 300 X-ray be Moa over 1,000

I do however understand what your saying that every single rifle may not achieve this freak hood of accuracy but the stuff he’s pumping out lately I’m impressed as are many as you can see from the pics and videos. I won’t name names from some builders I’d never get that to happen ever even on the best set up so my $ is on tacops that’s all no fan boy shit either promise

 

[steve123]

Wow, that is great advice.

Just stirring it up

I've since read the thread. OKAY you critical fucks, I'll be watching your posts and return in kind when the time is right!
When I stated I stand by my post, all of it, I meant that he's going about it all wrong!
I was pissed for a while but I realise Dicks will always be Dicks, of course you can't help it, and some triple down on 308 BUTT licking on a constant basis.

My advice is the best fucking FANTASTIC advice in this entire thread!!!! BTW it's advisable to get that circle jerk cum out of your eye so you can see straight for once! And here's why. The OP wants a 1/4" gun, this is his quote from earlier in the thread and hereon if you see quotes it's the OP's words - ""I wanted a 1/4 MOA rifle"". Well first of all what the hell is he trying to shoot 1/4 MOA off a bipod with a tactical rifle using factory ammo, lol. Again no offence to the builders in this thread but let's be real here because even the top 6mmPPC short range BR shooters don't find it easy agging .25 MOA in average winds and this is off a solid benchrest, etc, that they use. Get the right tool for the job man!

Well since the OP threw me under the bus with his LIKE, due to peer pressure maybe, I'll take a few jabs, because who the fuck spends - """Over the next 6 months or so I spend countless hours pouring over the rifle and spend over a grand trying to figure out what's wrong, mostly on ammo (varying factory match loads since I do not reload)."""
Now that's just, well..... you guys can insert whatever word you want here(.....), c'mon man what's the matter with you!
In 2 boxes of ammo you should have checked all the fasteners in the system, tried a different scope, and fucking sent the rifle back if by the 4th box nothing changed. You dickheads should insert the facepalm here because that's where it belongs.

""" He shoots two groups and they are in the .6 to .8 MOA range.""" this is after the OP drives 500 miles to the smith LOL, another facepalm moment BTW. At this point you should have insisted on getting your $ back or SOLD THE DAMN RIFLE! Good grief think of all the shooters out there that would love this rifle as, BUT NO, the months are still going by.

OP it's by pity that Mike stepped in, also maybe hoping for some extra business, aye, and what better advertising is there!

''""Any help/advice/well-intentioned-comment is greatly appreciated""" Apparently not so ! I'm going to laugh my ass off when you still can't shoot 1/4 moa afterwards.

Here's my quote - Bart, the guy that makes those bullets shot the 600Y BR record of .282" for 5 shots. I saw pics of many groups he shot at 100Y during """load developement""" that were all on the same target that were basically one large hole to a few in the 0's, most low .2's.
IIRC then going on to show enough groups to show that a long range BR rifle can agg in the low .2's in long range matches, not fucking 100 yards. And well he's won enough MATCHES to prove it.

NEWS FLASH - I looked up the high """aggregate score""" at the LAST 600Y BR match in Memphis which was 1.790", smallest group was .776" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let this sink in!

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter but you guys that want true 1/4 moa rifles REALLY need to rethink things and quit being heard mentality ass kissers! Go get your TAC OPS and try a 600BR match with your tactical rifle in 308 off an Atlas, LOL!!!, and that's not an attack on Mike, obviously he's a great person and a top builder. Get the right tool....

 

[6brshooter]

Bro what he said was quoted i am calm no need to get worked up here. I just think it’s a big false hood that a tacops was barely sub moa although feed it junk it don’t like could be shooting bad but feed it what it’s designed to shoot and smile. I just know if I own mikes gun what to shoot out of it no need to buy 20 boxes of various stuff it’s likes one or two things already ya know

Yes his rifles are set up for fgmm, they shoot that exceptionally, no expressed guarantee with other"match ammo". I quoted your post before you edited it, but whatever. Op is getting his rifle squared away, thats what this thread started as.

 

[308pirate]

Just stirring it up

I've since read the thread. OKAY you critical fucks, I'll be watching your posts and return in kind when the time is right!
When I stated I stand by my post, all of it, I meant that he's going about it all wrong!
I was pissed for a while but I realise Dicks will always be Dicks, of course you can't help it, and some triple down on 308 BUTT licking on a constant basis.

My advice is the best fucking FANTASTIC advice in this entire thread!!!! BTW it's advisable to get that circle jerk cum out of your eye so you can see straight for once! And here's why. The OP wants a 1/4" gun, this is his quote from earlier in the thread and hereon if you see quotes it's the OP's words - ""I wanted a 1/4 MOA rifle"". Well first of all what the hell is he trying to shoot 1/4 MOA off a bipod with a tactical rifle using factory ammo, lol. Again no offence to the builders in this thread but let's be real here because even the top 6mmPPC short range BR shooters don't find it easy agging .25 MOA in average winds and this is off a solid benchrest, etc, that they use. Get the right tool for the job man!

Well since the OP threw me under the bus with his LIKE, due to peer pressure maybe, I'll take a few jabs, because who the fuck spends - """Over the next 6 months or so I spend countless hours pouring over the rifle and spend over a grand trying to figure out what's wrong, mostly on ammo (varying factory match loads since I do not reload)."""
Now that's just, well..... you guys can insert whatever word you want here(.....), c'mon man what's the matter with you!
In 2 boxes of ammo you should have checked all the fasteners in the system, tried a different scope, and fucking sent the rifle back if by the 4th box nothing changed. You dickheads should insert the facepalm here because that's where it belongs.

""" He shoots two groups and they are in the .6 to .8 MOA range.""" this is after the OP drives 500 miles to the smith LOL, another facepalm moment BTW. At this point you should have insisted on getting your $ back or SOLD THE DAMN RIFLE! Good grief think of all the shooters out there that would love this rifle as, BUT NO, the months are still going by.

OP it's by pity that Mike stepped in, also maybe hoping for some extra business, aye, and what better advertising is there!

''""Any help/advice/well-intentioned-comment is greatly appreciated""" Apparently not so ! I'm going to laugh my ass off when you still can't shoot 1/4 moa afterwards.

Here's my quote - Bart, the guy that makes those bullets shot the 600Y BR record of .282" for 5 shots. I saw pics of many groups he shot at 100Y during """load developement""" that were all on the same target that were basically one large hole to a few in the 0's, most low .2's.
IIRC then going on to show enough groups to show that a long range BR rifle can agg in the low .2's in long range matches, not fucking 100 yards. And well he's won enough MATCHES to prove it.

NEWS FLASH - I looked up the high """aggregate score""" at the LAST 600Y BR match in Memphis which was 1.790", smallest group was .776" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let this sink in!

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter but you guys that want true 1/4 moa rifles REALLY need to rethink things and quit being heard mentality ass kissers! Go get your TAC OPS and try a 600BR match with your tactical rifle in 308 off an Atlas, LOL!!!, and that's not an attack on Mike, obviously he's a great person and a top builder. Get the right tool....

You should sleep off your drunkenness before posting

 

[NiteQwill]

Just stirring it up

I've since read the thread. OKAY you critical fucks, I'll be watching your posts and return in kind when the time is right!
When I stated I stand by my post, all of it, I meant that he's going about it all wrong!
I was pissed for a while but I realise Dicks will always be Dicks, of course you can't help it, and some triple down on 308 BUTT licking on a constant basis.

My advice is the best fucking FANTASTIC advice in this entire thread!!!! BTW it's advisable to get that circle jerk cum out of your eye so you can see straight for once! And here's why. The OP wants a 1/4" gun, this is his quote from earlier in the thread and hereon if you see quotes it's the OP's words - ""I wanted a 1/4 MOA rifle"". Well first of all what the hell is he trying to shoot 1/4 MOA off a bipod with a tactical rifle using factory ammo, lol. Again no offence to the builders in this thread but let's be real here because even the top 6mmPPC short range BR shooters don't find it easy agging .25 MOA in average winds and this is off a solid benchrest, etc, that they use. Get the right tool for the job man!

Well since the OP threw me under the bus with his LIKE, due to peer pressure maybe, I'll take a few jabs, because who the fuck spends - """Over the next 6 months or so I spend countless hours pouring over the rifle and spend over a grand trying to figure out what's wrong, mostly on ammo (varying factory match loads since I do not reload)."""
Now that's just, well..... you guys can insert whatever word you want here(.....), c'mon man what's the matter with you!
In 2 boxes of ammo you should have checked all the fasteners in the system, tried a different scope, and fucking sent the rifle back if by the 4th box nothing changed. You dickheads should insert the facepalm here because that's where it belongs.

""" He shoots two groups and they are in the .6 to .8 MOA range.""" this is after the OP drives 500 miles to the smith LOL, another facepalm moment BTW. At this point you should have insisted on getting your $ back or SOLD THE DAMN RIFLE! Good grief think of all the shooters out there that would love this rifle as, BUT NO, the months are still going by.

OP it's by pity that Mike stepped in, also maybe hoping for some extra business, aye, and what better advertising is there!

''""Any help/advice/well-intentioned-comment is greatly appreciated""" Apparently not so ! I'm going to laugh my ass off when you still can't shoot 1/4 moa afterwards.

Here's my quote - Bart, the guy that makes those bullets shot the 600Y BR record of .282" for 5 shots. I saw pics of many groups he shot at 100Y during """load developement""" that were all on the same target that were basically one large hole to a few in the 0's, most low .2's.
IIRC then going on to show enough groups to show that a long range BR rifle can agg in the low .2's in long range matches, not fucking 100 yards. And well he's won enough MATCHES to prove it.

NEWS FLASH - I looked up the high """aggregate score""" at the LAST 600Y BR match in Memphis which was 1.790", smallest group was .776" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let this sink in!

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter but you guys that want true 1/4 moa rifles REALLY need to rethink things and quit being heard mentality ass kissers! Go get your TAC OPS and try a 600BR match with your tactical rifle in 308 off an Atlas, LOL!!!, and that's not an attack on Mike, obviously he's a great person and a top builder. Get the right tool....

Just stirring it up

I've since read the thread. OKAY you critical fucks, I'll be watching your posts and return in kind when the time is right!
When I stated I stand by my post, all of it, I meant that he's going about it all wrong!
I was pissed for a while but I realise Dicks will always be Dicks, of course you can't help it, and some triple down on 308 BUTT licking on a constant basis.

My advice is the best fucking FANTASTIC advice in this entire thread!!!! BTW it's advisable to get that circle jerk cum out of your eye so you can see straight for once! And here's why. The OP wants a 1/4" gun, this is his quote from earlier in the thread and hereon if you see quotes it's the OP's words - ""I wanted a 1/4 MOA rifle"". Well first of all what the hell is he trying to shoot 1/4 MOA off a bipod with a tactical rifle using factory ammo, lol. Again no offence to the builders in this thread but let's be real here because even the top 6mmPPC short range BR shooters don't find it easy agging .25 MOA in average winds and this is off a solid benchrest, etc, that they use. Get the right tool for the job man!

Well since the OP threw me under the bus with his LIKE, due to peer pressure maybe, I'll take a few jabs, because who the fuck spends - """Over the next 6 months or so I spend countless hours pouring over the rifle and spend over a grand trying to figure out what's wrong, mostly on ammo (varying factory match loads since I do not reload)."""
Now that's just, well..... you guys can insert whatever word you want here(.....), c'mon man what's the matter with you!
In 2 boxes of ammo you should have checked all the fasteners in the system, tried a different scope, and fucking sent the rifle back if by the 4th box nothing changed. You dickheads should insert the facepalm here because that's where it belongs.

""" He shoots two groups and they are in the .6 to .8 MOA range.""" this is after the OP drives 500 miles to the smith LOL, another facepalm moment BTW. At this point you should have insisted on getting your $ back or SOLD THE DAMN RIFLE! Good grief think of all the shooters out there that would love this rifle as, BUT NO, the months are still going by.

OP it's by pity that Mike stepped in, also maybe hoping for some extra business, aye, and what better advertising is there!

''""Any help/advice/well-intentioned-comment is greatly appreciated""" Apparently not so ! I'm going to laugh my ass off when you still can't shoot 1/4 moa afterwards.

Here's my quote - Bart, the guy that makes those bullets shot the 600Y BR record of .282" for 5 shots. I saw pics of many groups he shot at 100Y during """load developement""" that were all on the same target that were basically one large hole to a few in the 0's, most low .2's.
IIRC then going on to show enough groups to show that a long range BR rifle can agg in the low .2's in long range matches, not fucking 100 yards. And well he's won enough MATCHES to prove it.

NEWS FLASH - I looked up the high """aggregate score""" at the LAST 600Y BR match in Memphis which was 1.790", smallest group was .776" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let this sink in!

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter but you guys that want true 1/4 moa rifles REALLY need to rethink things and quit being heard mentality ass kissers! Go get your TAC OPS and try a 600BR match with your tactical rifle in 308 off an Atlas, LOL!!!, and that's not an attack on Mike, obviously he's a great person and a top builder. Get the right tool....

Holy smokes. Did you finish a whole bottle and smoke grass before posting this? It read like mumbling non-sense.

 

[MikeMiller]

You win. Clearly the outlying groups were flukes and it’s really .2 moa or better.

Sir
I don’t know you but I know TacOps rifles. Years ago there was another attack Tac Ops guarantee thing. At the time I spent a great deal of time on hide as a moderator. Mike wanted someone to shoot his rifle who could shoot well so he made a deal with me. He would build me a rifle and if it shot sub .25 moa I would post about it. If it did not he would take the rifle back and refund my money. He built a rifle and I met a friend of his at the range. Mike did not trust me at the time and wanted to make sure I did not f up on purpose.
I shot five, five shot groups all under .25 moa at one hundred yards. All documented and witnessed These were all with Factory 168 GMM Federal ammo, the ammonia he guarantees it to shoot with.
This was posted at the time. It was the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I had ever shot. Period. It was the best fit and finish of any rifle I had then and now ever seen

I asked Mike how and he explained it but I am not going into detail

Some say no factory ammo will shoot .25 moa groups. Well your wrong at 100 yards it all about neck tension and bullets. If you have a good powder you will get good groups even with variation in drop weights Factories have. Of course you may get up to 50fps difference in velocity which will kill long range groups but at 100 yards it has very little effect

Mikes rifles flat out shoot. His rifles are designed for Fed GMM and built around that. That’s because his main clients are LE that only use that type of ammo

Now others build custom rifles designed to shoot with hand loads for target shooters and the chambers and throats are designed for that. For example I have won many events with GS Precision rifles, including National and International events. George built those rifles for getting the most out of specific bullets for specific ranges. Those rifles shoot sub .25 moa groups as well but with my OCD hand loads just like he designed them to. He also builds one hell of a field sniper rifle but designs or did last time I talked to him to shoot sub .50 moa with a variety of ammunition. I would take a GAP to war any day

I don’t have a clue what’s wrong with the OP rifle but I bet between SA Custom and Tac Ops they will get it fixed

I have shot for several rifle companies over the years and for my custom police sniper systems to use factory ammo I choose Tac Ops

I have not owned SA Custom rifle but based on the one I shot and reputation I would not hesitate to use them
Now as to factory rifles I shoot Savage because they offer the best band for the buck
I am happy to see these guys stand up to help a guy
Net BS is why I hardly ever post anyone. Not accusing anyone here but it seems every kid in mom’s basement is an expert on everything

We are all lucky to have such good equipment these days. When I went to sniper school in 1984 we had crap equipment
Lastly for the few that remember me I am in Florida retired for LE/contracting and just teaching shooting and or fishing happily in my bubble

 

[tacops1]

Sir
I don’t know you but I know TacOps rifles. Years ago there was another attack Tac Ops guarantee thing. At the time I spent a great deal of time on hide as a moderator. Mike wanted someone to shoot his rifle who could shoot well so he made a deal with me. He would build me a rifle and if it shot sub .25 moa I would post about it. If it did not he would take the rifle back and refund my money. He built a rifle and I met a friend of his at the range. Mike did not trust me at the time and wanted to make sure I did not f up on purpose.
I shot five, five shot groups all under .25 moa at one hundred yards. All documented and witnessed These were all with Factory 168 GMM Federal ammo, the ammonia he guarantees it to shoot with.
This was posted at the time. It was the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I had ever shot. Period. It was the best fit and finish of any rifle I had then and now ever seen

I asked Mike how and he explained it but I am not going into detail

Some say no factory ammo will shoot .25 moa groups. Well your wrong at 100 yards it all about neck tension and bullets. If you have a good powder you will get good groups even with variation in drop weights Factories have. Of course you may get up to 50fps difference in velocity which will kill long range groups but at 100 yards it has very little effect

Mikes rifles flat out shoot. His rifles are designed for Fed GMM and built around that. That’s because his main clients are LE that only use that type of ammo

Now others build custom rifles designed to shoot with hand loads for target shooters and the chambers and throats are designed for that. For example I have won many events with GS Precision rifles, including National and International events. George built those rifles for getting the most out of specific bullets for specific ranges. Those rifles shoot sub .25 moa groups as well but with my OCD hand loads just like he designed them to. He also builds one hell of a field sniper rifle but designs or did last time I talked to him to shoot sub .50 moa with a variety of ammunition. I would take a GAP to war any day

I don’t have a clue what’s wrong with the OP rifle but I bet between SA Custom and Tac Ops they will get it fixed

I have shot for several rifle companies over the years and for my custom police sniper systems to use factory ammo I choose Tac Ops

I have not owned SA Custom rifle but based on the one I shot and reputation I would not hesitate to use them
Now as to factory rifles I shoot Savage because they offer the best band for the buck
I am happy to see these guys stand up to help a guy
Net BS is why I hardly ever post anyone. Not accusing anyone here but it seems every kid in mom’s basement is an expert on everything

We are all lucky to have such good equipment these days. When I went to sniper school in 1984 we had crap equipment
Lastly for the few that remember me I am in Florida retired for LE/contracting and just teaching shooting and or fishing happily in my bubble

Damn is this the gold medal winner of the U.S. shooting team, Mike Miller ?

 

[MikeMiller]

Yes sir, how have you been. Saw the Tac Ops name and could not resist. Loving Florida!

 

[tacops1]

Yes sir, how have you been. Saw the Tac Ops name and could not resist. Loving Florida!

Good, glad you are enjoying Florida. Hope you are still getting some shooting time as well
As fishing

 

[MikeMiller]

Shoot all the time. Teach a few classes a month. Precision Rifle, Carbine and Shotgun like I have for a long time

 

[tacops1]

Shoot all the time. Teach a few classes a month. Precision Rifle, Carbine and Shotgun like I have for a long time

That’s awesome I’d love to take a class one day talk soon

 

[BillyNg]

Just stirring it up

I've since read the thread. OKAY you critical fucks, I'll be watching your posts and return in kind when the time is right!
When I stated I stand by my post, all of it, I meant that he's going about it all wrong!
I was pissed for a while but I realise Dicks will always be Dicks, of course you can't help it, and some triple down on 308 BUTT licking on a constant basis.

My advice is the best fucking FANTASTIC advice in this entire thread!!!! BTW it's advisable to get that circle jerk cum out of your eye so you can see straight for once! And here's why. The OP wants a 1/4" gun, this is his quote from earlier in the thread and hereon if you see quotes it's the OP's words - ""I wanted a 1/4 MOA rifle"". Well first of all what the hell is he trying to shoot 1/4 MOA off a bipod with a tactical rifle using factory ammo, lol. Again no offence to the builders in this thread but let's be real here because even the top 6mmPPC short range BR shooters don't find it easy agging .25 MOA in average winds and this is off a solid benchrest, etc, that they use. Get the right tool for the job man!

Well since the OP threw me under the bus with his LIKE, due to peer pressure maybe, I'll take a few jabs, because who the fuck spends - """Over the next 6 months or so I spend countless hours pouring over the rifle and spend over a grand trying to figure out what's wrong, mostly on ammo (varying factory match loads since I do not reload)."""
Now that's just, well..... you guys can insert whatever word you want here(.....), c'mon man what's the matter with you!
In 2 boxes of ammo you should have checked all the fasteners in the system, tried a different scope, and fucking sent the rifle back if by the 4th box nothing changed. You dickheads should insert the facepalm here because that's where it belongs.

""" He shoots two groups and they are in the .6 to .8 MOA range.""" this is after the OP drives 500 miles to the smith LOL, another facepalm moment BTW. At this point you should have insisted on getting your $ back or SOLD THE DAMN RIFLE! Good grief think of all the shooters out there that would love this rifle as, BUT NO, the months are still going by.

OP it's by pity that Mike stepped in, also maybe hoping for some extra business, aye, and what better advertising is there!

''""Any help/advice/well-intentioned-comment is greatly appreciated""" Apparently not so ! I'm going to laugh my ass off when you still can't shoot 1/4 moa afterwards.

Here's my quote - Bart, the guy that makes those bullets shot the 600Y BR record of .282" for 5 shots. I saw pics of many groups he shot at 100Y during """load developement""" that were all on the same target that were basically one large hole to a few in the 0's, most low .2's.
IIRC then going on to show enough groups to show that a long range BR rifle can agg in the low .2's in long range matches, not fucking 100 yards. And well he's won enough MATCHES to prove it.

NEWS FLASH - I looked up the high """aggregate score""" at the LAST 600Y BR match in Memphis which was 1.790", smallest group was .776" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let this sink in!

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter but you guys that want true 1/4 moa rifles REALLY need to rethink things and quit being heard mentality ass kissers! Go get your TAC OPS and try a 600BR match with your tactical rifle in 308 off an Atlas, LOL!!!, and that's not an attack on Mike, obviously he's a great person and a top builder. Get the right tool....

As a child, and maybe as an adult, you were dropped a lot; weren't you?

 

[Jscb1b]

When is your rifle getting delivered?

 

[steve123]

As a child, and maybe as an adult, you were dropped a lot; weren't you?

You are as stupid as they come, lol, and damn lucky.

 

[steve123]

You should sleep off your drunkenness before posting

You're the one to talk, lol, nothing worse than a hypocrite !!! As most would agree, certifiably THE most toxic entity on the entire Hide there folks!

Heck I used restraint this time....

 

[308pirate]

You're the one to talk, lol, nothing worse than a hypocrite !!! As most would agree, certifiably THE most toxic entity on the entire Hide there folks!

Heck I used restraint this time....

And now you use me to justify your shit posting. Did you ever learn the first rule of holes?

 

[steve123]

Holy smokes. Did you finish a whole bottle and smoke grass before posting this? It read like mumbling non-sense.

Smokes is right, self medicating much???

Like I said, c'mon man wipe that cum out of your eye! THE POINT/S ARE OBVIOUS but the blind can't see.

 

[steve123]

And now you use me to justify your shit posting. Did you ever learn the first rule of holes?

Yeah, you took the first shovel full out of your grave and I'll put in the last, figuratively speaking of course.

 

[308pirate]

Yeah, you took the first shovel full out of your grave and I'll put in the last, figuratively speaking of course.

I wouldn't put money on that

 

[steve123]

Well if you go tell your mommy and daddy I might get in trouble too, but I'm willing to take that bet

Keep it coming asshole

 

[Jscb1b]

 

[Baron23]

AGAIN I'm not a BR shooter

Well, maybe not but you sure do seem to be an asshole.

Cheers

 

[Jscb1b]

An asshole. Damn people ain't got no grammer.

 

[308pirate]

Well if you go tell your mommy and daddy I might get in trouble too, but I'm willing to take that bet

Keep it coming asshole

I don't go crying to anyone. If you get shitcanned it will be all on you.

 

[steve123]

Well, maybe not but you sure do seem to be asshole.

Cheers

Well I can fucking read stats so... and I'm just relaying info.

If you were to search my posts you'd come to the conclusion I'm not one of the mouthy idiots here on the Hide, but I damn sure am not being called out anymore and not fucking putting up a fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This time I'm being nice.

Anybody want to call me out publicly that's the way it's gonna be.

 

[Baron23]

An asshole. Damn people ain't got no grammer.

hahaha...edited as I don't want to trigger your OCD! LOL

Cheers

 

[BillyNg]

When is your rifle getting delivered?

Slotted to be built this week, so with shipping and possible NICS delays given the craziness, I should have it out at the range in 3 weeks time. Now I have to begin the hunt for ammo.

 

[never_summer]

Slotted to be built this week, so with shipping and possible NICS delays given the craziness, I should have it out at the range in 3 weeks time. Now I have to begin the hunt for ammo.

Accessories - Keeping the rest

Going to hold on to the rest for the time being .308 SOLD Have a few cases of Federal Gold Medal Match .308 in 175gr SMK $ 270 per case of 200 + you pay actual shipping Federal Gold Medal Match 300 Win Mag with 190gr SMK $500 per case of 200 + actual shipping PP F&F or zell. only...

www.snipershide.com

Edit: @deersniper might have some also

 

[Jscb1b]

Slotted to be built this week, so with shipping and possible NICS delays given the craziness, I should have it out at the range in 3 weeks time. Now I have to begin the hunt for ammo.

Please keep us updated.

 

[JakeM]

Well I can fucking read stats so... and I'm just relaying info.

If you were to search my posts you'd come to the conclusion I'm not one of the mouthy idiots here on the Hide, but I damn sure am not being called out anymore and not fucking putting up a fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This time I'm being nice.

Anybody want to call me out publicly that's the way it's gonna be.

Nobody really cares.

 

[steve123]

Nobody really cares.

Yet you cared to respond, what a retard.

 

[JakeM]

Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[steve123]

Just thought I'd let you know.

The Irony, thanks precious.

 

[MikeRTacOps]

Sir
I don’t know you but I know TacOps rifles. Years ago there was another attack Tac Ops guarantee thing. At the time I spent a great deal of time on hide as a moderator. Mike wanted someone to shoot his rifle who could shoot well so he made a deal with me. He would build me a rifle and if it shot sub .25 moa I would post about it. If it did not he would take the rifle back and refund my money. He built a rifle and I met a friend of his at the range. Mike did not trust me at the time and wanted to make sure I did not f up on purpose.
I shot five, five shot groups all under .25 moa at one hundred yards. All documented and witnessed These were all with Factory 168 GMM Federal ammo, the ammonia he guarantees it to shoot with.
This was posted at the time. It was the most accurate rifle with factory ammo I had ever shot. Period. It was the best fit and finish of any rifle I had then and now ever seen

I asked Mike how and he explained it but I am not going into detail

Some say no factory ammo will shoot .25 moa groups. Well your wrong at 100 yards it all about neck tension and bullets. If you have a good powder you will get good groups even with variation in drop weights Factories have. Of course you may get up to 50fps difference in velocity which will kill long range groups but at 100 yards it has very little effect

Mikes rifles flat out shoot. His rifles are designed for Fed GMM and built around that. That’s because his main clients are LE that only use that type of ammo

Now others build custom rifles designed to shoot with hand loads for target shooters and the chambers and throats are designed for that. For example I have won many events with GS Precision rifles, including National and International events. George built those rifles for getting the most out of specific bullets for specific ranges. Those rifles shoot sub .25 moa groups as well but with my OCD hand loads just like he designed them to. He also builds one hell of a field sniper rifle but designs or did last time I talked to him to shoot sub .50 moa with a variety of ammunition. I would take a GAP to war any day

I don’t have a clue what’s wrong with the OP rifle but I bet between SA Custom and Tac Ops they will get it fixed

I have shot for several rifle companies over the years and for my custom police sniper systems to use factory ammo I choose Tac Ops

I have not owned SA Custom rifle but based on the one I shot and reputation I would not hesitate to use them
Now as to factory rifles I shoot Savage because they offer the best band for the buck
I am happy to see these guys stand up to help a guy
Net BS is why I hardly ever post anyone. Not accusing anyone here but it seems every kid in mom’s basement is an expert on everything

We are all lucky to have such good equipment these days. When I went to sniper school in 1984 we had crap equipment
Lastly for the few that remember me I am in Florida retired for LE/contracting and just teaching shooting and or fishing happily in my bubble

What's Up OG Mike ? Jesus longgg time to hear thought you were still overseas putting in WORK ? Nice to see you back On The Block and happy to hear all is good on your end I'll shoot you a pm...

Mike R.