I just called ATF to check on 77/44 ordered last Dec. (2011). It took from Dec to June to transfer from dealer to dealer. I was told it went "pending" on 8/6 and would be Feb 2013 before it was ready. Really??!!
Suppressors What does "pending" mean?
- Thread starter Tackleberry
- Start date
Re: What does "pending" mean?
Surprise. *Soup Nazi voice* No gun for you.
Did you get one of the integrally suppressed ones at least?
Surprise. *Soup Nazi voice* No gun for you.
Did you get one of the integrally suppressed ones at least?
Re: What does "pending" mean?
It means the ATF has your paperwork and it's gonna sit a fat stack of others for 5-6 months until they get to it. Enjoy the wait.
It means the ATF has your paperwork and it's gonna sit a fat stack of others for 5-6 months until they get to it. Enjoy the wait.
Re: What does "pending" mean?
They are telling everyone 6 months right now, but they are running a bit faster. Pending just means they entered it into the system, and now it gets to wait.
They are telling everyone 6 months right now, but they are running a bit faster. Pending just means they entered it into the system, and now it gets to wait.
Re: What does "pending" mean?
Are these guys members of the ATF union? I can't possibly understand what they do all day. When you already have other stamps it is not like you have not already been "checked out". Does anyone know what they finally do when they get around to your paper work, what kind of time is involved on each application? I serve around 5000 guest per day at my business, I bet those guest are really glad my lines have already pended. I was in MO once doing an opening and saw union workers at their best (worst). I am amazed they ever get anything built but these guys seemed to have learned from them
Are these guys members of the ATF union? I can't possibly understand what they do all day. When you already have other stamps it is not like you have not already been "checked out". Does anyone know what they finally do when they get around to your paper work, what kind of time is involved on each application? I serve around 5000 guest per day at my business, I bet those guest are really glad my lines have already pended. I was in MO once doing an opening and saw union workers at their best (worst). I am amazed they ever get anything built but these guys seemed to have learned from them
Re: What does "pending" mean?
You do realize there are a whole whopping like 6 people who do all the transfers right? I'm not making any excuses because I think they should hire more people but I will tell you I've spoken with almost every one of these people in the past and they are over worked.
You do realize there are a whole whopping like 6 people who do all the transfers right? I'm not making any excuses because I think they should hire more people but I will tell you I've spoken with almost every one of these people in the past and they are over worked.
Re: What does "pending" mean?
"Pending" means you just go about your business, forgetting about it to the best of your ability for about six months.
Also spend a little time on NFAtracker.com submitting some data.
Welcome to the club.
"Pending" means you just go about your business, forgetting about it to the best of your ability for about six months.
Also spend a little time on NFAtracker.com submitting some data.
Welcome to the club.
Re: What does "pending" mean?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tackleberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these guys members of the ATF union? I can't possibly understand what they do all day. When you already have other stamps it is not like you have not already been "checked out". Does anyone know what they finally do when they get around to your paper work, what kind of time is involved on each application? I serve around 5000 guest per day at my business, I bet those guest are really glad my lines have already pended. I was in MO once doing an opening and saw union workers at their best (worst). I am amazed they ever get anything built but these guys seemed to have learned from them </div></div>
I'm always amazed at the ideas we have based on no experience with reality. Not picking on you as I am guilty as well. Until we know how things really work we think that someone is laying down on the job. Reality usually shows that isn't true. I work with NFA branch as a class 2 manufacturer and have seen them working in person. I found that all my ideas of how things worked were pretty much wrong. Here is real life.
Your form 4 goes to Atlanta to have the check cashed. The Atlanta address is a bank, not the ATF. So a couple days to go from your box to theirs. Once they get your forms and check they have to separate them and cash the check. A tag goes in with your forms to show that payment has been made and your forms go in a pile with all the others that came in and got worked that day. The pile gets sent off to NFA branch everyday. A day or two to get there from Atlanta so a couple more days.
NFA branch arrival. Your forms get pulled out of their packing, envelope etc and stacked in the order they came in. They sit in a pile til someone can enter them into the computer system. Seems pretty simple all in all. Now consider the number of forms coming into NFA branch everyday that have to be entered into the system. Not only your form 4's are coming in. There are form 1's to make and register NFA firearms, they have to be close to approval prior to cashing the checks so they go to NFA branch first, Form 2's to register firearms that have been made by Class 2 manufactures (Me for example), Form 3's to transfer NFA Firearms between dealers, Form 5's to transfer NFA firearms for repair, between any of us and govt agencies, and between family members such as heirs and lastly for transfer of unservicable firearms. Form 9's are for export and form 10's are for govt agencies to register contraband or other NFA firearms. We don't deal with forms 9 and 10 as the public but there are tons of those forms coming info NFA Branch that have to be dealt with by the examiners.
So now your form 4 has been entered into the system and your item is now listed as "pending". Now it sits in line while your fingerprint cards go to the FBI for a background check. Your background check comes back ok and now your forms sit some more. All this takes more time but the main delay is the number of forms waiting for examination. All this stuff is done in order of receipt so first in first out....except for some other minor details. I'll get to the details at the end.
Now your form finally comes up to the examiners desk where it sits for some time while they work through piles of forms. They check the form against the computer to make sure things are registered properly and they change the name of the registered owner to the new owner, stick the stamp on the form and sign it. One copy goes in their archives and the other goes back to the mail room to be sent back to the transferor. It sits there for a while too because there are piles of forms waiting for someone to fold and put them in an envelope and run it through the postage meter machine and into the mail bag. Should be about 4-10 days to get back to your transferor who should call you and say come and get it.
Now the details:
In 2005 transfers took about a week or sometimes less for dealer to dealer transfers, form 4's were going in a month to 2 months. The total number of forms worked by the 11 examiners in 2005 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 275,000. Thats all the forms for the whole year. Now flash forward to 2009 which was the last year I saw data for and we are looking at 9 examiners ( a couple got promoted or moved) and we have less people doing nearly 1 million forms in a year. Transfer times were about a month for dealer to dealer transfers and 3-4 months for form 4's. For right now we are looking at a substantial increase in forms filed and we're down to 7 or 8 examiners. For some reason there is a hiring freeze on for people in the govt who work. They can hire lawyers and management but not workers. (not trying to insult managers and lawyers just separating workers from management types). For that reason they can't get enough people to handle the forms and speed things up. More forms with less people means slower times. Not long ago, spring I think, they did hire some helpers to pre-sort forms for the examiners and get things input into the computer. Basically they take care of busy work so the examiners don't have to. That allows them more time to do the work you worry about...your forms. More details, a lot of forms are screwed up when they get to NFA branch. They have incorrect info like cal, barrel length, maker etc. If it doesn't match the original registration then it has to be fixed. That means the forms have to put in an envelope with a note that says what the problem is and how to fix it. It can also be a problem when people hand write their forms. I can't read my writing why should they be able to? Type it and that helps. Bad checks slow things as well.
All this adds up to more time because each of these forms has to be handled and worked before the next one can be. When you start at the top of the pile and work down this means the one at the bottom is going to be a while before it sees any light. Imagine how long it takes to handle 1 million forms with 7 people on top of all the idiot phone calls from guys who want the examiner to explain to them why their stuff isn't done. From my personal experience seeing NFA branch in action I will tell you that they're not hanging around the coffee machine chatting. Not all of them are working the way they should be but most of them are. Most of the ones who are still there are very hard workers trying to do a thankless job while we complain and yell at them for the failures. Management is an issue and a failure of the agency to properly fund one of the few divisions that bring in cash without stealing it or confiscating it.
Not trying to defend them or make you think I'm a big fan. I have my problems with the whole ATF in charge thing as well but I can't fault them for things that aren't their fault. Things are how they are and our bitching on the boards doesn't really help. Bitching at our congressmen might though. It helped a lot back when NFA branch got moved from Wash DC to West Virginia. Let your representatives know whats going on and maybe they can get funding for more help and speed things up a bit.
Hope that helps
Frank
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tackleberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are these guys members of the ATF union? I can't possibly understand what they do all day. When you already have other stamps it is not like you have not already been "checked out". Does anyone know what they finally do when they get around to your paper work, what kind of time is involved on each application? I serve around 5000 guest per day at my business, I bet those guest are really glad my lines have already pended. I was in MO once doing an opening and saw union workers at their best (worst). I am amazed they ever get anything built but these guys seemed to have learned from them </div></div>
I'm always amazed at the ideas we have based on no experience with reality. Not picking on you as I am guilty as well. Until we know how things really work we think that someone is laying down on the job. Reality usually shows that isn't true. I work with NFA branch as a class 2 manufacturer and have seen them working in person. I found that all my ideas of how things worked were pretty much wrong. Here is real life.
Your form 4 goes to Atlanta to have the check cashed. The Atlanta address is a bank, not the ATF. So a couple days to go from your box to theirs. Once they get your forms and check they have to separate them and cash the check. A tag goes in with your forms to show that payment has been made and your forms go in a pile with all the others that came in and got worked that day. The pile gets sent off to NFA branch everyday. A day or two to get there from Atlanta so a couple more days.
NFA branch arrival. Your forms get pulled out of their packing, envelope etc and stacked in the order they came in. They sit in a pile til someone can enter them into the computer system. Seems pretty simple all in all. Now consider the number of forms coming into NFA branch everyday that have to be entered into the system. Not only your form 4's are coming in. There are form 1's to make and register NFA firearms, they have to be close to approval prior to cashing the checks so they go to NFA branch first, Form 2's to register firearms that have been made by Class 2 manufactures (Me for example), Form 3's to transfer NFA Firearms between dealers, Form 5's to transfer NFA firearms for repair, between any of us and govt agencies, and between family members such as heirs and lastly for transfer of unservicable firearms. Form 9's are for export and form 10's are for govt agencies to register contraband or other NFA firearms. We don't deal with forms 9 and 10 as the public but there are tons of those forms coming info NFA Branch that have to be dealt with by the examiners.
So now your form 4 has been entered into the system and your item is now listed as "pending". Now it sits in line while your fingerprint cards go to the FBI for a background check. Your background check comes back ok and now your forms sit some more. All this takes more time but the main delay is the number of forms waiting for examination. All this stuff is done in order of receipt so first in first out....except for some other minor details. I'll get to the details at the end.
Now your form finally comes up to the examiners desk where it sits for some time while they work through piles of forms. They check the form against the computer to make sure things are registered properly and they change the name of the registered owner to the new owner, stick the stamp on the form and sign it. One copy goes in their archives and the other goes back to the mail room to be sent back to the transferor. It sits there for a while too because there are piles of forms waiting for someone to fold and put them in an envelope and run it through the postage meter machine and into the mail bag. Should be about 4-10 days to get back to your transferor who should call you and say come and get it.
Now the details:
In 2005 transfers took about a week or sometimes less for dealer to dealer transfers, form 4's were going in a month to 2 months. The total number of forms worked by the 11 examiners in 2005 was somewhere in the neighborhood of 275,000. Thats all the forms for the whole year. Now flash forward to 2009 which was the last year I saw data for and we are looking at 9 examiners ( a couple got promoted or moved) and we have less people doing nearly 1 million forms in a year. Transfer times were about a month for dealer to dealer transfers and 3-4 months for form 4's. For right now we are looking at a substantial increase in forms filed and we're down to 7 or 8 examiners. For some reason there is a hiring freeze on for people in the govt who work. They can hire lawyers and management but not workers. (not trying to insult managers and lawyers just separating workers from management types). For that reason they can't get enough people to handle the forms and speed things up. More forms with less people means slower times. Not long ago, spring I think, they did hire some helpers to pre-sort forms for the examiners and get things input into the computer. Basically they take care of busy work so the examiners don't have to. That allows them more time to do the work you worry about...your forms. More details, a lot of forms are screwed up when they get to NFA branch. They have incorrect info like cal, barrel length, maker etc. If it doesn't match the original registration then it has to be fixed. That means the forms have to put in an envelope with a note that says what the problem is and how to fix it. It can also be a problem when people hand write their forms. I can't read my writing why should they be able to? Type it and that helps. Bad checks slow things as well.
All this adds up to more time because each of these forms has to be handled and worked before the next one can be. When you start at the top of the pile and work down this means the one at the bottom is going to be a while before it sees any light. Imagine how long it takes to handle 1 million forms with 7 people on top of all the idiot phone calls from guys who want the examiner to explain to them why their stuff isn't done. From my personal experience seeing NFA branch in action I will tell you that they're not hanging around the coffee machine chatting. Not all of them are working the way they should be but most of them are. Most of the ones who are still there are very hard workers trying to do a thankless job while we complain and yell at them for the failures. Management is an issue and a failure of the agency to properly fund one of the few divisions that bring in cash without stealing it or confiscating it.
Not trying to defend them or make you think I'm a big fan. I have my problems with the whole ATF in charge thing as well but I can't fault them for things that aren't their fault. Things are how they are and our bitching on the boards doesn't really help. Bitching at our congressmen might though. It helped a lot back when NFA branch got moved from Wash DC to West Virginia. Let your representatives know whats going on and maybe they can get funding for more help and speed things up a bit.
Hope that helps
Frank
Re: What does "pending" mean?
I for one hate the wait also. However, my first can was a nightmare due to a shotty dealer. If it wasn't for one of the girls at the NFA branch helping me, ain't no telling how much longer it would have took for me to get that can. 1 year later, I got it...
It might seem like the NFA crew doesn't do nothing but they sure helped me.
It took me several months to get over that and decide to get another can, next time was with a good dealer though and #3 will be also.
I for one hate the wait also. However, my first can was a nightmare due to a shotty dealer. If it wasn't for one of the girls at the NFA branch helping me, ain't no telling how much longer it would have took for me to get that can. 1 year later, I got it...
It might seem like the NFA crew doesn't do nothing but they sure helped me.
It took me several months to get over that and decide to get another can, next time was with a good dealer though and #3 will be also.
Re: What does "pending" mean?
Thanks Frank! An excellent report. I guess it goes along with gov. That they can't figure out how to fix a problem. I have a buddy who works for ag and I hear him talk all the time about how the management screws things up. I guess the gov take she non productive workers and makes them a manager. I vote we kick everyone in Washington out and elect some folks who have common sense and represent the people they serve. I like what Eastwood said, they work for us,they have forgotten! Thanks for the information
Chris
Ps. I do respect anyone who works!!
Thanks Frank! An excellent report. I guess it goes along with gov. That they can't figure out how to fix a problem. I have a buddy who works for ag and I hear him talk all the time about how the management screws things up. I guess the gov take she non productive workers and makes them a manager. I vote we kick everyone in Washington out and elect some folks who have common sense and represent the people they serve. I like what Eastwood said, they work for us,they have forgotten! Thanks for the information
Chris
Ps. I do respect anyone who works!!
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