What equipment be deemed important to facilitate significantly improving the quality of my reloads.

[want2learn]

Hi, I would like to really focus on improving the quality of my reloading particularly now as i've purchased a new barrel in a new caliber (6.5x47L).…my aim is to shoot small groups on paper. I'm reading a book on the subject right now and trying to learn from this forum as well.


I currently have:


a single stage reloader…Forster Co-Ax


a scale


a digital caliper


a Franklin Arsenal machine that trims, chamfers and cleans the primer pocket


new full length die set from Forster


Hornady length gauge and case that fits that caliber


vibrator cleaner for cases


a bullet puller


Is there anything else that one might consider a high priority for purchase to augment what i have? I don’t have a lot of disposable income anymore but if there’s something that’s pretty important i’ll strongly consider it.


Thank you

 

[hafejd30]

Quality components- bullets/brass/ primers (Lapua etc)

My most accurate guns run .0015-.0025 neck tension

You’ll want to anneal eventually- I use vertex bench source and anneal every firing

Case trimmer- should be a while before you’ll need this tho

That should be a fairly easy caliber to tune.

If you want best accuracy you’ll be looking into sorting bullets/brass etc.
Using a chronograph to determine Es/sd

My Berger’s shoot best set into the lands, Hornady’s .020 off, Sierra’s .010-.015 off lands

If you know anyone that reloads for fclass/benchrest etc they would be good to watch and learn from. (Not billy bob in his moms basement, someone with real experience and knowledge) if you have that available to you

 

[Franko]

When you say "scale" do you mean a balance beam or a digital? If you have a cheap digital toss it and get a good balance beam.

Consider a set of check weights. They can provide you with a second point of truth on your scale measurements.

Do you have the Hornady headspace comparator and bullet comparator? Both deserve serious consideration.

Consider buying "Top Grade Ammo" by Glen D Zediker. It's not too expensive and a good read on precision reloading.

 

[want2learn]

Franko, thanks...that's the book my friend lent me. i must read it again more slowly/carefully. It helped a lot getting me started safely but now i want to go back and see if i can further implement the lessons/information.

i have both an old balance beam that my neighbor no longer uses, i also have a cheap battery powered scale. Perhaps i should stick with the balance beam. The battery powered scale came with a 100gm weight.

I was thinking about the comparator....they run around 45 dollars or so so i can definitely do that.

 

[Franko]

Franko, thanks...that's the book my friend lent me. i must read it again more slowly/carefully. It helped a lot getting me started safely but now i want to go back and see if i can further implement the lessons/information.

i have both an old balance beam that my neighbor no longer uses, i also have a cheap battery powered scale. Perhaps i should stick with the balance beam. The battery powered scale came with a 100gm weight.

I was thinking about the comparator....they run around 45 dollars or so so i can definitely do that.

Stick with the balance beam, it is going to be more accurate than a cheap digital and it won't drift. The only downside to a balance beam is that it's slow.

You may also want to buy a powder trickler if you don't have one to make the balance beam a little easier to use as opposed to using a scoop to put the powder in.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Do you have a means to measure runout on the case and bullet? This comes in handy to check your case prep actions.

Does your resizing die use neck bushings?

Is the bullet seating die the "chamber" type?

 

[aprocast]

Powder trickler is the dumbest thing in the reloading game, just pinch a bit of powder out of the hopper between your finger and thumb and sprinkle up to weight 10 times quicker and easier

 

[want2learn]

I currently do not have a means to measure runout on the case and bullet....have you found this measurement to make a significant difference in your accuracy? is there a particular make/model i should consider?

With respect to the dies, i'm not certain..i believe that they are of the latter type?

This is the die set i purchased from Forster:

Full Length Bench Rest® Sizing Dies
Produces ammunition that has a “glove fit” to your chamber. Use after each firing or after several firings, when the resulting brass flow will require the case to be full-length sized.

• Sizes the case neck, shoulder, and body
• Deprimes and expands the case neck
• Allows the case to be re-chambered in a SAAMI minimum size rifle chamber
• Precisely positioned vent hole located in the threaded or recessed portion of the die body prevents excessive, trapped air and lubricants from damaging the die’s components or your cases

 

[spife7980]

You don’t need a concentricity gauge. If you get one I doubt you’ll ever use it again after the first week lol. If money is tight this is the last thing I would buy.

Yes, get the comparators to put on your calipers, they are helpful for getting real numbers for accurate sizing and bullet seating. Real numbers let you know what is happening.

Stick with the beam if you’re wanting small holes. The digital pocket scales are dog shit.

You’re shooting 6.5x47 so there is pretty much only good brass available.

For saving money I like the shooters pro shop Nosler blem bullets.


Everything looks good. The only thing I would say is that to improve your reloads you won’t get much better than the potential you have now. Any “upgrades” I would look at for time savings, not for better results. A chargemaster etc may not be quite beam scale accurate but it’s still good and removes your time expenditure spent hunkering over the beam. When you’re seating a bullet the next load of powder is there ready and waiting for you automatically. A trimmer that chamfer and deburrs at the same time it trims is another one of those time saving “upgrades”.

 

[want2learn]

spife, thank you. that helps. i put the comparator in my shopping cart. will probably order on Monday.

 

[marchboom]

I know the following is not reloading pieces of equipment but they will have a significant impact on your groups:

1. Get a good (heavy) front rest and rear bag. Your rifle must be in the same place for every shot if you want the bullets to make that small group.

2. Wind flags. These are inexpensive and you can make them yourself. Until you have shot over flags you won't know what you have been missing. Wind can affect a bullet more than reloading procedures.

3. Get the book from Mic McPherson called "Metallic Cartridge Handloading". LOTS of great stuff in this book. One of the best, IMO.

 

[want2learn]

thanks...will check out your recommendations. right now i have a standard front rest...i think it's a caldwell brand and i've been using a sock i filled with plastic pellets. i also added some weight to the stock. working hard on technique...establishing a consistent fit and body position

 

[Ryridesmotox]

I noticed that I got really good results with a Lee Collet neck die. I'm still doing moe testing to see what is actually better, but it was a pretty significant difference. Went from about .75 moa to that middle group.. on a higher node too, I never got groups that small before with my rifle.

It's probably not something for everyone, but I'm going tho do more testing to see if the results are more than just one random ass group

 

[want2learn]

that's dramatic. wonder if that result is reproducible. i just read a little bit about that die on accurateshooter. basically one uses this die instead of a full length sizing die to merely address the neck. they advocate polishing as well as applying a bit of lube on the leaves prior to sizing the case.... then making a 1/8 turn and sizing again to optimize the result.

 

[Ryridesmotox]

Yea that's what I did. I made the change after I cleaned the bore of the rifle and changed bullets. I put 20 rounds down to foul the rifling and then started testing my loads. I can't attribute that group to skill honestly, never shot a group like that before. It may have been all luck, but all my collet sized stuff shot better. Like I said, requires more testing. I also just got a smaller diameter mandrel to see if more neck tension helps or hurts. I used to FL resize with my Lee FL die and be happy with my .75 moa groups. I think I am going to FL size 10, Collet size 10, and collet size 10 with a smaller mandrel to see what works best.

I would say, after I drop like 10 groups like that, then its reasonable to assume it's not totally luck.

 

[want2learn]

please keep us informed.....really interested in learning from what you find

 

[jcam]

Annealez or benchsource.
reloading manuals.

 

[captainmorgan460]

Should be good with what you got. Try some and see.

 

[ToddKS]

As others have mentioned, the Hornady comparator sets need to be a priority.

I would also recommend a mandrel and die body from 21 Century Reloading.

 

[want2learn]

thanks....picked up a comparator, it's the Sinclair model that was for sale locally. Found it just before i was going to order one online...it feels good to try to support the mom and pop shops when i can.

took an old sock, inserted 2 plastic bags and filled the innermost one with plastic beads which i source in the local hospital supporting thrift shop....should be good as a stock rest. I have an front stock rest that i purchased many years ago, it feels pretty stable.

will check out 21 century. will hold off for now on purchasing a neck turner and concentricity gauge till i get a better handle on funds and i'll get a chance to see where i am with respect to my skills and current accuracy/precision status.

Dry firing a bit and have the trigger settled in nicely.

Trying to only use VFG cleaning pellets and a good quality coated cleaning so i keep the barrel in great shape.

I still need to secure some test weights to make sure scale is well calibrated and working accurately...I can't imagine it wouldn't as it's such a simple design but better safe than sorry. It is an older scale but it looks to be in very good shape. my neighbor is awesome.

appreciate all the help.

 

[aprocast]

Test you scale by weighing a few bullets, that will let you know if there is a problem

 

[want2learn]

it's embarrassing to admit how often i seem to miss the obvious

great idea, bullets i have......thanks

 

[mikehotel]

Annealer and Lapua brass.

I have the AMP annealer and am very satisfied with the job that it does, but it is a big step.

 

[acudaowner]

first and foremost toilet paper and gun , ammo ears and eye protection maybe adding in a dollar store hacksaw , box of rubber gloves jug of bleach bag of lime and a drop cloth things can get messy and duck tape you never know when you may need to build a water park oh bailing twine .and lastly bubble gun and zip ties . case of cold beer in the cooler and Its a party just need bbq grill and steaks or chicken and water melon .

 

[want2learn]

wow., thanks...not sure what to say but i've got toilet paper, rifle, ammo ears and eye protection....got a wood saw (not a hack saw but i'm used to struggling.... and gloves, i know i have some.

I bet the better half has some Chlorox somewhere...duct tape, yup ....no .bag of lime, can i substitute lemons? Zip ties i've got thanks to Harbor Freight but will have to check the garage for twine (not sure about that one). Haven't chewed bubble gum in some time but i'm sure the local supermarket still carries them....I should be good.

 

[Tx_Aggie]

Annealer and Lapua brass.

I have the AMP annealer and am very satisfied with the job that it does, but it is a big step.

^^^ QFT. Quality brass is the single biggest step you can take in improving your reloading.

 

[krw]

When I am wanting to group shoot, I always use sorted Lapua brass

 

[Threadcutter308]

When I am wanting to group shoot, I always use sorted Lapua brass

I neck size only. I started using Lapua brass over 15 years ago. I have over 20 reloads on my .308W brass. It's way cheaper in the long run. It is amazingly consistent, worth every penny.

 

[want2learn]

thanks for the information.....per everyone's recommendation i've purchased Lapua brand brass.

Right now i already own the Forster brand full length sizing dies, perhaps i should have purchased a neck sizing system but i'll hold off for now as I've already incurred the cost of these dies.

 

[TriggerHappy0125]

FL resize it’s the only way to maintain consistency. If you neck size eventually you have to FL resize anyway. If you FL resize you can keep the brass within a very tight tolerance all the time.

In my opinion you need to focus on repeatability. Regardless of what equipment you have develop your process and do it the same every time. You cant rely on the data you get at the range if you don’t have a controlled repeatable process.

What type of groups are you consistently capable of shooting. Not your best group, what can you reasonably expect. If you shoot sub 0.5” groups consistently you may notice variability in your reloads more than someone who shoots 1” groups.

If you enjoy it, work at it. Push yourself to get better. Read, learn, ask questions, but most of all be careful and have fun.

 

[want2learn]

thanks...makes a lot of sense.

I'm just starting out and with a brand new barrel and caliber for me so i don't have a defined load yet. I can effect generally nice grouping with both pistol and with my .222 varmint rifle.....but definitely need to work on the more profound calibers. I will say the 6.7x47L is much more comfortable to shoot as compared to the .308 which it replaced.

It's all been 3 shot groups of different loads (albeit with the same projectile, FL sized brass and primer) shot prone at 100 yards using a rear bag and an old but satisfactory Caldwell front rest.

A total of 57 rounds were to date shot through the gun.

The first 20 were factory loads during break in as defined by the barrel maker.

I then shot 37 rounds of a ladder development type. My resultant group size seems to be hovering between a very honest .45 inch to .7 inch. 4 of those rounds were fouling rounds which left me with 33 rounds to review.

I have one group that looks promising to me at .45 inch where all three shots are horizontal with just a little air space between the 3 shots. The other groups produced somewhat triangular patterns...and if i understand the process correctly i should focus on a consistent horizontal grouping.

I'm going to try to duplicate that promising load to first of all see if it's reproducible, I will also try out plus minus a grain of powder keeping all else the same.... and subsequently will also try out some small variations around these particular loads with respect to bullet seating depth.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

+1 on a set of check weights. First thing I do before I charge cases is let the scale warm up and then check it known weights to make sure it's dead nutz accurate.

VooDoo

 

[Anthonyc]

Depends on how far you want to shoot small groups but I would say:

Good brass (Lapua, Peterson, ADG)
Lab grade balance
Annealer
Oal gauge (for bullet seating depth)
Neck turner (probably not needed for good quality brass like Lapua)
Concentricity tool

And not really a reloading tool but a chronograph