What happens when the next catastrophic event occurs?

[MotorOilMcCall]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Funny you don't answer me...

Getting ID costs a minuscule amount of money (which is often handed out to those in poverty anyway), and takes less time than riding a bus to work (if they even do that). Again, why does Nancy require ID to attend one of her town hall meetings? Why does the SS office require ID to claim benefits? Why does the Unemployment office require ID to claim benefits? Oh, and not just one form, but multiple. You're a fucking idiot if you think its a legit excuse for not wanting voter ID.

You're one ignorant fuck about the electoral college too... It was NOT intended to represent the population of the country, that's the whole point. It was meant to PROTECT the smaller states and districts from you fucking retards in the cities from dictating your hipster trendy dumbass politicians from ruling those in rural America. Which is exactly what its done. The founding fathers forgot more about setting up and running a country than you've apparently learned in your entire life. If you honestly think they haven't improved the technology for voting, you haven't been voting in the past 100 years...

Is there a "Block" function for this type of ignorant fuckery???

 

[BLEE]

I believe ID requirements are a direct attempt to make it harder for those in poverty to vote.

I don't believe there's been a massive government overreach. What state do you live in? Maybe it's because I live in a densely populated state and we have the second most cases of COVID-19 in the nation, but I feel like asking people not to gather in groups for the time being isn't much of a sacrifice to prevent immunocompromised people from catching it and dying.

If requiring IDs to vote, is an issue, what's the solution to voter fraud, to prevent those who don't have the right to vote, from voting?
The electoral college helps prevent more populous states from dictating the outcome of the presidential election. If the electoral college is a problem, what is the solution from highly populated states from unfairly swinging the presidential elections?

 

[MotorOilMcCall]

I'm lost. You're saying someone should need 155,000,000 votes to become president?

I'd like to see that!

And I think he's also saying there's only 310,000,000 people in the US... another child left behind apparently...

 

[Flyingbullseye]

He's either fooling himself if he thinks most poor folk don't have IDs or he's just a total idiot that is buying into the BS that gets thrown around the news every election year.

 

[Greenday4537]

I'm lost. You're saying someone should need 155,000,000 votes to become president?

I'm saying someone should need half the votes. There aren't 310 million voters.

 

[308pirate]

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

This has to be a joke. Nobody can really be this stupid.

 

[Greenday4537]

This has to be a joke. Nobody can really be this stupid.

It turns out that just because you don't like it doesn't make it stupid. A popular vote just wouldn't benefit you so you disagree with it.

 

[clcustom1911]

I'm saying someone should need half the votes. There aren't 310 million voters.

So, you don't agree with each state having a proportionally equal representation in the electoral college? You understand each state has the same number of "electors" as they have members in the House of Representatives, right? The House votes on the simple majority, as does the Electoral College.

If we were straight democracy, the population centers on the east and west coast would control the country, leaving everything and everyone in between without fair representation.

That's not just, equal, or fair.


You want equal? How about this, each state's electors are are given proportionally as the popular vote goes in that state.

So, if a candidate gets 55% of the vote in that state, they get 55% of the electors, the other candidate gets 45% of the electors.

That's definitely fair, equal, and just.

 

[TriggerJerk!]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Well I won’t pile on, as you are already getting a beat down. But I take exception to you comment about being poor and multiple jobs. My lovely wife and I returned from oversees with EVERYTHING we owned packed in one small E-container (e.g., fit in the back of a used Mitsubishi truck). We rented an apartment, with no furniture, and both immediately got 2 jobs. I soon had 3! Worked damn hard... and no one gave us a thing. Some of the best years of our lives.

So don’t give me the sad story of multiple jobs to make ends meet. Been there and have the shirt. It is part of life, and exactly how we were raised. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can do it.

We have grown way too soft, when people just expect a handout without doing something to earn their keep. I am not saying to ignore the poor, or those in need. I am saying “get a job, and get two if that is what it takes”. And if you need help finding one, I will help you look. But our goverment should not be in the charity business...that is what neighbors and churches are for (thats right, it is our responsibility... not the governments).

Good luck. Not a soul here would ignore a person who needed help. But mind your rhetoric.

 

[Zeroit]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Well thanks for coming back, and giving a clearer perspective of what you think or believe.
The founding fathers were way beyond their time, they were trying to cover all the bases, and they did a fine job.
There's no in theory in the electoral college, it either does or it doesn't.
I'm not sure even how to address your when mass popular votes was impossible, I read a little history and I don't recall that being a issue.
Yes, we had voter suppression ie. Women and others that has been fixed.
If the people who are working three jobs and don't have a I.D is a rather weak argument, you assume they all walk to work?
If they are driving without a license that probably means they don't have insurance or a bond, that would be illegal in most states.
They can early vote, or do absentee ballots in most states.
Kinda like military personnel that are deployed.
Hopefully, I addressed your reply.
If I missed something let me know.
If I did some others here will also.
It's always good to hear other perspectives.

 

[308pirate]

It turns out that just because you don't like it doesn't make it stupid. A popular vote just wouldn't benefit you so you disagree with it.

Were you this adamant against the electoral college when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama won?

I'm warning you, this is not up for debate. We will not allow it to happen. If you think Antifa was bad, you haven't seen shit yet.

 

[Greenday4537]

So, you don't agree with each state having an proportionally equal representation in the electoral college? You understand each state has the same number of "electors" as they have members in the House of Representatives, right? The House votes on the simple majority, as does the Electoral College.

If we were straight democracy, the population centers on the east and west coast would control the country, leaving everything and everyone in between without fair representation.

That's not just, equal, or fail.

I do. 5 votes for a state with 5 times the population is proportional. The house should be the same way. That's the original intent, that the house representatives ratio matches the population. But it currently handicaps places that aren't densely populated and that was never the intent of the founding fathers.

Were you this adamant against the electoral college when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama won?

I'm warning you, we will not allow it to happen. If you think Antifa was bad, you haven't seen shit yet.

Yes. It was broken then, it still is broken. The only difference is Clinton and Obama also beat their opponents with the popular vote.

Does it make sense to you that in Clinton's second election, he got 49.2% of the popular vote and 87% of electoral votes? This winner takes all, handicapped electoral votes per state system is broken.

 

[308pirate]

Yes. It was broken then, it still is broken. The only difference is Clinton and Obama also beat their opponents with the popular vote.

It is those who try to install tyranny by destroying the Electoral College who will indeed be broken by their own countrymen.

 

[Greenday4537]

It is those who try to install tyranny by destroying the Electoral College who will indeed be broken.

Destroy? How about fixing it?

 

[BLEE]

I'm saying someone should need half the votes. There aren't 310 million voters.

That's pure democracy, otherwise known as "mob rules". We live in a republic, thank God.

 

[clcustom1911]

Destroy? How about fixing it?

How would you "fix" the electoral college? Census dictates the number of Representatives and electors. You are counting illegals in the overall population density, which is bullshit because they ain't citizens. Elected representatives represent the citizens of a country, not all people for all over the world.

Should we count tourists in our census as well?


Did you find that "democracy" word in our Founding Documents yet?

 

[308pirate]

Destroy? How about fixing it?

I'm not sure how else to explain this but I'll try.

There are two final bulwarks against the tyranny of the majority

1. The electoral college
2. The second amendment

If you try to weaken the first one, you will find out what the second one is for.

 

[Zeroit]

Funny you don't answer me...

Getting ID costs a minuscule amount of money (which is often handed out to those in poverty anyway), and takes less time than riding a bus to work (if they even do that). Again, why does Nancy require ID to attend one of her town hall meetings? Why does the SS office require ID to claim benefits? Why does the Unemployment office require ID to claim benefits? Oh, and not just one form, but multiple. You're a fucking idiot if you think its a legit excuse for not wanting voter ID.

You're one ignorant fuck about the electoral college too... It was NOT intended to represent the population of the country, that's the whole point. It was meant to PROTECT the smaller states and districts from you fucking retards in the cities from dictating your hipster trendy dumbass politicians from ruling those in rural America. Which is exactly what its done. The founding fathers forgot more about setting up and running a country than you've apparently learned in your entire life. If you honestly think they haven't improved the technology for voting, you haven't been voting in the past 100 years...

Is there a "Block" function for this type of ignorant fuckery???

You could tell him how really feel?
I was trying to be delicately diplomatic ?
I was laughing so hard I can't comment.

 

[Greenday4537]

I'm not sure how else to explain this but I'll try.

There are two final bulwarks against the tyranny of the majority

1. The electoral college
2. The second amendment

If you try to weaken the first one, you will find out what the second one is for.

Threatening an armed uprising every time we don't get our way hasn't been helping the 2A fight.

 

[jinxx4ever]

I'm in California, born and raised.

You have a bigotry of low expectations against minorities and whatever other sub-categories of identity politics you believe people should be divided.

I want one person one vote and the electoral college. Not one person, unknown number of votes "democracy"


I would love for you to find the part in our Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, or Bill of Rights where it details how we are a "democracy".

I'll be here, waiting for you to find it.

10000000% correct, the other kicker is the states that say no matter the vote, they will cast their votes to the popular majority. Meaning colorado does not care if Trump wins, they will kick their votes to whomever the dem winner is. Same with any dem controlled state

 

[Zeroit]

Threatening an armed uprising every time we don't get our way hasn't been helping the 2A fight.

I haven't seen any one here threatened a armed uprising?

 

[OldSalty]

Threatening an armed uprising every time we don't get our way hasn't been helping the 2A fight.

FFS...

Leftists cry and threaten the most when they dont get their way. Trump is the easiest example.

And instead of winning fairly on solid policy, leftists resort to...

wiping their asses with the consitution to get their way.

 

[deersniper]

“Yes, we had voter suppression ie. Women and others that has been fixed.“

There was a reason the FF only let property owning males vote.

Letting people with no skin in the game, and women vote has destroyed this country.

 

[W54/XM-388]

10000000% correct, the other kicker is the states that say no matter the vote, they will cast their votes to the popular majority. Meaning colorado does not care if Trump wins, they will kick their votes to whomever the dem winner is. Same with any dem controlled state

You bet your bottom dollar that if those states went ahead with that and a Republican won the majority vote, they would be overturning the laws and running to find some democrat plant judge to call it unconstitutional so fast it would make your head spin.

 

[Snuby642]

Manditory 1 vote for 1 state issued id.

Fuck any communist that doesn't like it.

 

[deersniper]

Manditory 1 vote for 1 state issued id.

Fuck any communist that doesn't like it.

They can fake ids too. But that’s makes it harder for them to run people around and vote in dead people or other people’s names.

Voter fraud should be a mandatory death sentence offense

 

[308pirate]

Threatening an armed uprising every time we don't get our way hasn't been helping the 2A fight.

Whatever you say, boy

 

[Snuby642]

Good start wipe out all the dead voters and nonresidents cheating the system .

Remove the Democrat enablers of this activity from society for ever.

Texas has a fast lane for death row according to Ron White.

 

[BLEE]

Manditory 1 vote for 1 state issued id.

Fuck any communist that doesn't like it.

Communism and Islam are both incompatible with the Constitution of the United States and the American way of life.

 

[Snuby642]

Death sentance for voter fraud.

Write your representatives.

 

[BLEE]

Communism and Islam are both incompatible with the Constitution of the United States and the American way of life. If there's anything that would cause an armed uprising in the USA, it would be implementation of one, or both of these systems of government.

 

[m6z]

So because we say 1 person 1 vote towards president, that means your vote doesn't count? We shouldn't have to handicap your votes cause you live in the middle of nowhere.

Typical. Sorry your girl lost. I'll never understand how a gun owner could vote against their self-interests.

 

[vh20]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

People without IDs don’t have jobs.
Cut to the chase. The ONLY reason to oppose voter ID is to perpetrate ELECTION FRAUD. You know it, we know it, and everyone else in the country knows it, so let’s just stop pretending that your argument makes sense to ANYONE, including everyone on your side of it. We ALL know how anyone without an ID would vote if they are allowed, and why.

 

[Greenday4537]

Typical. Sorry your girl lost. I'll never understand how a gun owner could vote against their self-interests.

Remind me how Trump cares SO much about our 2A rights?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Manditory 1 vote for 1 state issued id.

Fuck any communist that doesn't like it.

California gives ID to anyone so maybe not the best qualification.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Remind me how Trump cares SO much about our 2A rights?

He could care WAAAAAY more.

I'm genuinely curious for your response to my previous post below.

Do you think ID requirement is a direct attempt to make it harder for those in poverty to buy cigarettes or alchohol? How about driving or opening a bank account? How about buying a gun or renting a car? Flying on an airplane?

Please tell me how proper identification in anything other than voting is a direct attempt to make it harder on those in poverty.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Poor's with three jobs. That's some funny shit.
They had to have an ID to get the job. No real employer is going to fill out any tax paperwork without valid ID.

 

[Snuby642]

Make it illegal to show up at a polling place without id.

Arrest all them mfers.

 

[Downtown]

Do you think leftists who've recently joined, such as Greenday, MrBR, others, are really gun
owners interested I precision shooting? I don't think it's really possible, given the statements they make. Must just be here to troll. Paid perhaps, I've heard of that.

 

[tiger13]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Alexander Tytler: A democracy only exists until the majority discovers it can vote itself the largess out of the public treasury. (paraphrase). Seriously, an ID costs less than a 12 pack, your making excuses for irresponsible behavior

 

[Downtown]

Although I suppose we could use the entertainment, as long as we don't really take them seriously.

 

[OldSalty]

Do you think leftists who've recently joined, such as Greenday, MrBR, others, are really gun
owners interested I precision shooting? I don't think it's really possible, given the statements they make. Must just be here to troll. Paid perhaps, I've heard of that.

Better yet, making accounts years ago to wait for the appropriate chance to sow division. The newer, the easier to identify. Account age adds authenticity. Some plans are made well in advance by people who are certainly not stupid.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Do you think leftists who've recently joined, such as Greenday, MrBR, others, are really gun
owners interested I precision shooting? I don't think it's really possible, given the statements they make. Must just be here to troll. Paid perhaps, I've heard of that.

A while back I remember watching a YouTube vid with an irate man cursing all the Fudders and Butters.

These are the butters. The ones who are willing to compromise and trust the government to only use their powers for good.

They always say but this or but that.

 

[Jgunner]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Of the poors, who work multiple jobs, but can’t afford time to get an I.D.? How many do you think that affects? As high as 0%? How does anyone do anything in this country without ID? Fuck, I returned merchandise to a store today that required id. So did my purchase. Im sure all the poors would just go on without said purchase, cause “no time fo id”. How does one open a bank account, or drive, or any other task in this country? If they don’t have time to get their id, why would they bother voting? No time! Gotta get to that 3rd job!

what is it really that YOU people want? Chips implanted paid by taxpayers? No id’s for anything?

ill give ya this, you’ve hung in longer with your progressive talk then i thought you would. Have mommy give you a gold star.

 

[10ring'r]

Every mother F'er, that lives in this country, needs a F'n I.D., NO I.D., NO free shit. PERIOD! No excuses. End of story.
Mac

 

[pmclaine]

Getting IDs costs time and money. Thing people in poverty don't have. When you have to work multiple jobs to put food on the table and have a roof over your head, plus those jobs don't offer PTO, it's a hell of a challenge.

Do I agree with the electoral college? Sure, in theory. It was SUPPOSED to represent the population of the country. A state with 5 million people would have 5 times the votes as a state with 1 million people. It made sense when mass popular votes were impossible. But what's the reason for not improving an old system as times and technology get more advanced?

If the country is 310 million, that'd be 155 million for half.

Than the driving privlidge is obviously not intended for "the poor", nor is flying, or going to state/federal buildings for service.

Perhaps they shouldnt be permitted to vote at all - how will they find the time?

Electoral college has nothing to do with technology dumb fuck - I will not even attempt manners because you wont attempt to use critical thinking.

We are the United STATES of America.

The Republic recognizes the primacy of the soverereign STATE.

They even in those early days recognized the problem that geographically small population clusters would determine the fate of the country in a popular vote election.

Its actually genius to have 50 individual popular vote elections than have a final tally among proportioned but equal States determine the outcome.

No one 25 miles beyond the borders of New York City wants New York City determining their governance.

Do you want the mayors of New York City, Houston or Chicage being more powerful than the STATE governor?

That will be the result in your world.

That is what classical Democratic Greece had - CITY states - The Persians kept handing them their ass and their individual govts acted for their own interests rather than the greater national good. It was only when they entered upon embracing the idea of "Greek" commonality that they began kicking ass.

I could accept your point of view if it came from a person of compassion but your vision is one of ignorance on how to have a free and ordered society or it is one of malice directly intended to cause harm to our free Republic.

 

[pmclaine]

I'm lost. You're saying someone should need 155,000,000 votes to become president?

I dont think but some 60% of the country even votes.

Be careful because this line of questioning will have @greenturd extolling the virtues of "Ranked Choice" voting - 1 man as many votes as candidates.........

 

[Greenday4537]

Do you think leftists who've recently joined, such as Greenday, MrBR, others, are really gun
owners interested I precision shooting? I don't think it's really possible, given the statements they make. Must just be here to troll. Paid perhaps, I've heard of that.

Yes, I am a shooter. I am newer to it which is obviously why my account is newer but I do enjoy my precision shooting. I reload all my ammo. I do all my own maintenance. I'm currently at the top of my rifle league (granted it's a 100 yard range so not a challenge with my setup). And I'm still having fun learning more. This forum is a huge wealth of knowledge for beginners to advanced shooters.

Paid trolls lol. It's sad that the only reason you could think someone would be anti-greed is greed.

I dont think but some 60% of the country even votes.

Be careful because this line of questioning will have @greenturd extolling the virtues of "Ranked Choice" voting - 1 man as many votes as candidates.........

I'm still not convinced on ranked choice, but I think we should move to a system where the number of representatives from your party is equal to the percentage who voted for that party. It'd quickly make third and fourth parties viable. 1% of the vote gets you 4 seats in the house. More people feel represented then are encouraged to vote non-Democrat and non-Republican. Sick of RINOs? Vote for a more conservative party. And suddenly it's no longer easy to have a majority in the house without working together with other parties. Shit could actually be achieved!

 

[deersniper]

Making other parties viable?

Like when the dems and republicans used the heel of .goc agencies to quash the tea party?
People should be strung up over that.


You just want voter fraud and communism. Only reason to explain your ID stance.

You sound like a John Brown gun owner if I was LL your types would be Perma banned.

Anti greed? You commies are as greedy as they come. You want to steal other people’s money and liberty. You all need a helicopter ride. It will work tbis time right? The others 87 attempts and failures just didn’t have true believers?

 

[pmclaine]

I'm still not convinced on ranked choice, but I think we should move to a system where the number of representatives from your party is equal to the percentage who voted for that party. It'd quickly make third and fourth parties viable. 1% of the vote gets you 4 seats in the house. More people feel represented then are encouraged to vote non-Democrat and non-Republican. Sick of RINOs? Vote for a more conservative party. And suddenly it's no longer easy to have a majority in the house without working together with other parties. Shit could actually be achieved!

Yes parliament works great elsewhere (sarcasm).....The FF specifically built a Republic to avoid parliamentary shenanigans. Who want to see the "I dont wear Pants" party being the key vote for serious matters because they won one seat in the House?

The FF also were concerned that party desire for power would be to the detriment of good governance.

They were right in both aspects.

Very astute men those old guys were.

Im unsure what the complete answer would be to fix it but I think one thing would be to make reality the desire of the FF to have government service be a temporary "burden" for those that perform it.

As they wont term limit themselves as was intended its time to term limit them via statute.

You get your 8-12 years than you are banned from politics or lobbying.