What scope is everyone running for elr

[ceruleanblue]

Hi,

Because the people using S&Bs are not concerned with turret graphics, lolol....

They are though, concerned that if their rifle/scope get bangs around that when they pull the trigger the POA still equals POI.

They are though, concerned that when they hold or dial for firing solution corrections that what they are holding or dialing is what shift the POI will have from its' zero.

What ergonomics are we talking about that have been improved? We have scope body, eye piece, turrets...on pretty much every scope known to man. So what ergonomics are outdated on the S&B?

Sincerely,
Theis

Hi Theis. Turrets: Just look at the turrets on this Arken: https://arkenopticsusa.com/SH4-6-24...d-Reticle-with-Zero-Stop-34mm-Tube-p227953426 and the S&B is slow to keep up. Nightforce has beauties there as well. I'd love to have an S&B too, but it seems like there are cooler options out there. S&B feels like Leica cameras: They have a mystique and their optics are superb, but Leica's in camera software and technology sucks. A modern day Fuji DSLR is quite superior - except for the optics. That is what I allude to. -Migs

 

[ceruleanblue]

As lowlight used to say S&B is the gold standard. Not sure, if that's still true today as you have competition with the NF 7-35, TT and ZCO. The Schmidt's with the new DT II turrets are pretty nice, feels like a ball detent clicking through as you adjust the elevation or windage. You solidly know where its at when you dial. There are also a ton of reticle choices. I've been happy with the tracking tests I've done on mine and have confidence in it. Only reason I've had to send one back was for the lithium grease spatter issue they had. Other than that I've been very happy with the tracking, accuracy and reticles choices. I believe the 5x25's use a 4 or 5x erector and the 3-27's and 5-45's use a 9x erector. The verbiage used is "the 5-45x56 High Power exemplifies massive magnification in a 9x zoom package." If you ever want to swap reticles you can call them and for $500 you have a new reticle in it. Overall just a solid choice, but really no frills or gimmicks.

Thanks for chiming in. What's this I hear that they are second focal plane? Really? Your last words sum it up "...but really no frills or gimmicks..."

 

[schmi015]

Thanks for chiming in. What's this I hear that they are second focal plane? Really? Your last words sum it up "...but really no frills or gimmicks..."

Huh? Most Schmidt's are FFP, and that's they way to go. More recently they've come out with some 5x25 SFP scopes. You can search for what you want on Eurooptic:

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I can look at those Arken turrets...so what, lol....

Still doesn't change the FACT they cannot take the field utilization of the S&B, nor can they guarantee the subtension of the reticle to be what it says it is.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[1moaoff]

Hi Theis. Turrets: Just look at the turrets on this Arken: https://arkenopticsusa.com/SH4-6-24...d-Reticle-with-Zero-Stop-34mm-Tube-p227953426 and the S&B is slow to keep up. Nightforce has beauties there as well. I'd love to have an S&B too, but it seems like there are cooler options out there. S&B feels like Leica cameras: They have a mystique and their optics are superb, but Leica's in camera software and technology sucks. A modern day Fuji DSLR is quite superior - except for the optics. That is what I allude to. -Migs

S&B slow to keep up? Everyone else just caught up to them!

Cooler options? Are you worried about impacts or looking at Instagram pics?

Mystique?? She was hot, thats all I'm saying about that comment.

Camera vs Scope vs Electronics? Umm

 

[THEIS]

S&B slow to keep up? Everyone else just caught up to them!

Cooler options? Are you worried about impacts or looking at Instagram pics?

Mystique?? She was hot, thats all I'm saying about that comment.

Camera vs Scope vs Electronics? Umm

Hi,

Do yourself a favor and just put that guy on ignore, lol...

"Ergonomics" improved, hahahahaha....it is a round fucking knob in which nobody has ever developed carpel tunnel from so get out of here with this "ergonomic" improvement shit, lolol

Turret markings, hahahha....because that is much more important than turret calibrations matching the actual markings....

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[kthomas]

I'm using a K624i with AMR reticle on my ELR .300NM rifle.

I purchased it a few years ago, mostly for the reticle. The AMR reticle has 0.2 mil hashmarks for both elevation and windage portions of the reticle, with a pretty extensive x-mas tree reticle for holdovers. The reticle may look busy in pictures, but it doesn't feel near as busy in real life.

Khales has a great reputation for tracking, and I'm pretty familiar with their scopes having 3 of them (all different reticles). Their internal elevation is not as extensive as other scopes, such as some of the more modern NF scopes. I don't believe this is any deal breaker, not with x-mas tree reticles and prism devices such as the Charlie TARAC.

I don't believe Khales makes the AMR reticle anymore, it must not have been too popular, which is a shame. I wish they made an updated version of that reticle, off the top of my head I would prefer a small dot in the center of the reticle. If I was to buy a scope today with what's currently available, I would strongly consider another Khales, perhaps with the SKMR-4 reticle.

 

[phlegethon]

S&B feels like Leica cameras: They have a mystique and their optics are superb, but Leica's in camera software and technology sucks. A modern day Fuji DSLR is quite superior - except for the optics.

I don’t think you are familiar with any modern Leicas—the sensors and firmware on the Q2 and SL are quite up to any current standard, if at a premium price.

Also, Fuji doesn’t make any DSLRs now, only mirrorless, and their lenses are superb.

 

[ceruleanblue]

I don’t think you are familiar with any modern Leicas—the sensors and firmware on the Q2 and SL are quite up to any current standard, if at a premium price.

Also, Fuji doesn’t make any DSLRs now, only mirrorless, and their lenses are superb.

Hi phlegethon. I was making an analogy, not berating Leica. I do stand by firmly by my statement of Leica's subpar software. Canon and Nikon menus would have been easy to emulate. (And they are so much more powerful and detailed) Just an example, so as not to distray this thread: My M9 cannot take a long exposure whereas my Fuji can be set for several minutes. The M9 also has such a small buffer that it locks up the camera after a few consecutive shots. The battery charging is a joke! Impossible to get a 100% charge! Leica does have awesome bokeh and razor sharpness, but if you don't pay attention with the M cameras you will get frustrated. My wife's D800 is eons ahead of the Leica when it comes to the software and design. --> Like a NightForce BEAST probably is to a S&B But there is no sense to argue about cameras or scopes since both these subjects are like women in that we each love our own.

 

[ceruleanblue]

I'm using a K624i with AMR reticle on my ELR .300NM rifle.

I purchased it a few years ago, mostly for the reticle. The AMR reticle has 0.2 mil hashmarks for both elevation and windage portions of the reticle, with a pretty extensive x-mas tree reticle for holdovers. The reticle may look busy in pictures, but it doesn't feel near as busy in real life.

Khales has a great reputation for tracking, and I'm pretty familiar with their scopes having 3 of them (all different reticles). Their internal elevation is not as extensive as other scopes, such as some of the more modern NF scopes. I don't believe this is any deal breaker, not with x-mas tree reticles and prism devices such as the Charlie TARAC.

I don't believe Khales makes the AMR reticle anymore, it must not have been too popular, which is a shame. I wish they made an updated version of that reticle, off the top of my head I would prefer a small dot in the center of the reticle. If I was to buy a scope today with what's currently available, I would strongly consider another Khales, perhaps with the SKMR-4 reticle.

What magnification do you go up to?

 

[kthomas]

What magnification do you go up to?

It's been a little while since I've shot ELR distances (need to find a good spot to shoot ELR in my new state), but when I did, I found myself shooting between ~12-16x.

 

[ceruleanblue]

Anecdote: I've never shot ELR but as a club, we are working our way up to the limits of 308/7.62. Right now 450 meters at a 15x15 cm (~6x6 inch target at 492 yards) steel is common impact among the shooters (at least one out of 3 shots). We are learning. I know it's not ELR until we surpass triple that distance, but I have to build the interest in the group. When I started this no one except me had a Kestrel with Ballistics. I'm still learning how to use it. Now at least 4 have one. They are having fun, so it's going to grow.

 

[phlegethon]

450 meters at a 15x15 cm (~6x6 inch target at 492 yards)

Try that with a .22LR, much more fun.

 

[ceruleanblue]

Try that with a .22LR, much more fun.

I shoot lots of the old Olympic sports and bench rest, so I'm familiar with one target per shot at 50 meters with Eley Tenex on my Anschutz. Now, as I turn the 60 mark, 7.62 (.308) is more fun. I can't wait for shooting to resume. We have no vaccines yet (I'm not in the US) . IPSC is my main diversion, but that too is on hold. Amen. What a bad pair of years. I want to cry for those I know that are dead or dying from this virus. I apologize, but I'm so mad at the Chinese rulers that (might have) created this malady. Damn it hurts to see my father-in-law in a respirator dying and two of my friends dead.

 

[Runnineh]

No love for trijicon tenmile?

 

[Schw15]

No love for trijicon tenmile?

You have one?

 

[Runnineh]

You have one?

I have 2. One on a 300 norma and another on a winmag. I love them great glass and tracking. I don't do competitions, but I was wondering if anyone runs one.

 

[Schw15]

I have 2. One on a 300 norma and another on a winmag. I love them great glass and tracking. I don't do competitions, but I was wondering if anyone runs one.

I have seen them but dont know anything about them. How is the glass and turrets?

 

[Runnineh]

I have seen them but dont know anything about them. How is the glass and turrets?

Side by side with a mk5 there's no difference that I notice. Elevation turret has great feel, the windage isn't as good, but isn't garbage by any means. The only thing it lacks to me is reticle options, but I think the reticle is great. Not too busy, floating dot. It would be perfect with .2, but it tracks great.

 

[Chickentoast]

I have seen them but dont know anything about them. How is the glass and turrets?

I have the 5-50 mrad on a 308. Glass is top of the Japan class, turrets are not as stiff as the XTR3 and not as tactile as the Mk5hd, but no issue with operation or tracking, .05 mils each click. FOV much smaller than XTR3 and comparable to Mk5hd.

I mounted the ZCO, so looks like I'm keeping it... 6.5 Sherman Max on a Tikka long action and 28" Bartlein.

 

[Schw15]

I have the 5-50 mrad on a 308. Glass is top of the Japan class, turrets are not as stiff as the XTR3 and not as tactile as the Mk5hd, but no issue with operation or tracking, .05 mils each click. FOV much smaller than XTR3 and comparable to Mk5hd.

I mounted the ZCO, so looks like I'm keeping it... 6.5 Sherman Max on a Tikka long action and 28" Bartlein.

View attachment 7583318

I need zco money and call it good haha no more comparing or wondering when you have the best

 

[Chickentoast]

I need zco money and call it good haha no more comparing or wondering when you have the best

I still want a S&B 3-27 or 5-45 MSR2 DT2+ and maybe a March 5-42 TR1, and whatever comes out next year

 

[284winner]

Sightron 10-50x60. Finding I don't need all the magnification but sure allows for upper magnification adjustment when it gets soupy. With my 25X scopes there isn't as much room to find that sweet spot in the soup. Next scope on the menu is the Trijicon accupower 5-50. Definitely an IR scope next time.

 

[iceng]

Anecdote: I've never shot ELR but as a club, we are working our way up to the limits of 308/7.62. Right now 450 meters at a 15x15 cm (~6x6 inch target at 492 yards) steel is common impact among the shooters (at least one out of 3 shots). We are learning. I know it's not ELR until we surpass triple that distance, but I have to build the interest in the group. When I started this no one except me had a Kestrel with Ballistics. I'm still learning how to use it. Now at least 4 have one. They are having fun, so it's going to grow.

308win @ 450m on 5" plate ? Nice work. With practice and time you will go 5 from 10 shots on IPSC @ 1mile. Keep at it !

 

[ceruleanblue]

You have one?

Nope, I don't have one but I'll look at it. They have cool scopes

 

[ceruleanblue]

308win @ 450m on 5" plate ? Nice work. With practice and time you will go 5 from 10 shots on IPSC @ 1mile. Keep at it !

Thank you very much. I'll try and post some videos.

 

[Chickentoast]

Sightron 10-50x60. Finding I don't need all the magnification but sure allows for upper magnification adjustment when it gets soupy. With my 25X scopes there isn't as much room to find that sweet spot in the soup. Next scope on the menu is the Trijicon accupower 5-50. Definitely an IR scope next time.

I'll sell you my 5-50 if you want it and replace with the March 5-42...

 

[ceruleanblue]

I'll sell you my 5-50 if you want it and replace with the March 5-42...

I just got a NF, but thank you!

 

[Schw15]

Anyone running a Minox for elr?

 

[wldott]

His data is purely based on each shooters personal equipment at all ELR matches. You may disagree with what is being used but his data stands correct.

 

[nutation]

I've shot past 1000 meters with:

Nightforce BEAST 5-25x Tremor3 (great)
Bushnell HDMR II 3.5-21x H59 (adequate)
Weaver Tactical 3-15x Mildot (the reason I bought other scopes)

 

[goneballistic]

S&B PMII 5-25x56 H59
NF ATACR 5-25-56 Mil-C
NF ATACR 7-35x56 Mil-XT

Mounted on different rifles and if I had to choose a favorite it would be the S&B.

For the guys who have had the 5-25 and 7-35 NF scopes, any reason not to hold out for a 7-35?

I can get a 5-25 but feels like the 7-35 is a more versatile scope.

Opinions?


Only scopes I've used past a thousand are athlon midas tac and leupold mk5 5-25

 

[iceng]

I've used almost all of them to go a mile, a few to 2km, and only vortex razor HD gen2 to 3214m.

All work, each has a pro and a con. Find one and roll with it.

 

[ZiaHunter]

For the guys who have had the 5-25 and 7-35 NF scopes, any reason not to hold out for a 7-35?

I can get a 5-25 but feels like the 7-35 is a more versatile scope.

Opinions?


Only scopes I've used past a thousand are athlon midas tac and leupold mk5 5-25

No reason to hold out. 5-25 will get you out to 2K with no issues. Mirage really becomes an issue as you go further out and will most likely be dialing down anyway.

 

[Yerman]

For the guys who have had the 5-25 and 7-35 NF scopes, any reason not to hold out for a 7-35?

I can get a 5-25 but feels like the 7-35 is a more versatile scope.

Opinions?


Only scopes I've used past a thousand are athlon midas tac and leupold mk5 5-25

Comparing my buddies 5-25 to both of my 7-35s, the 7-35 is noticeably brighter and clearer when on the same magnification. I asked NF and they said it’s the same glass. However, both myself and my shooting buddies all agree the 7-35 has better glass.

 

[Chickentoast]

^I've read the same in a number of places, but never experienced for myself. The reason (IMHO) to consider an ATACR, given the competition, is the 35X mag.

 

[ceruleanblue]

Making some 8 x 12 cm (by 1in thick!) Targets for this addiction. Each target steel has another equivalent steel hanging off conveyor belt material on the bottom, so the impact doesn't send it wrapping on the target stand.

 

[ceruleanblue]

I'm using a S&B 5-45 with LRR Reticle I bought from @Glassaholic if he used to be wjm300. Which is superb, dialed and tracked well out to a mile with a. 300wm mrad.
I also have a 3-27 and a couple 5-25 Schmidts. Favorite reticles are thin ones such as LRR-mil, Gen2xr and p4f.
A buddy has a 3-20 msr2 on the way so that will be nice to check out.

I want to try a TT and ZCO.

I'm still at the bottom of the learning curve, where the reticle isn't my focus. It's that wind that has my attention. It's that wind that distracts my bullets!

 

[ceruleanblue]

^I've read the same in a number of places, but never experienced for myself. The reason (IMHO) to consider an ATACR, given the competition, is the 35X mag.

In benchrest I've made some mistakes and one has been to get 45x (a Leupold Competition scope) for an Anschutz at 50 meters. A mistake. Remember that the competition here is to always hit a dot the size of a pin (the ten-X where Eley Tenex comes from) and one shot per target. (And the targets are very small) A 35x makes for better shooting. A perfect score is possible. Leupold makes some fine scopes. I'm just liking the long distance game more now.

 

[Chickentoast]

^With my Trijicon 5-50, I find myself around 34X when I'm trying to really hone in for groups at long range. Not purposefully, but I fiddle with mag and parallax for best image, and when I come out from behind the scope, low 30's in mag most times. Personal and anecdotal, but at least a data point. I don't think the 35X would go unused, at least for me, in the ATACR.

 

[Schw15]

Yesterday I happen to be in Colorado Springs so I stopped in and looked at the Burris XTR 3 and a Leopold Mark 5 I didn't take him outside but fit and finish that Mark V is a wonderful scope I loved the turrets on it from the store Eyeglass and very crisp and popped. The birds was really nice but the turrets wasn't near as nice and I really liked the mark 5 and the button on there for the turret

 

[ceruleanblue]

^With my Trijicon 5-50, I find myself around 34X when I'm trying to really hone in for groups at long range. Not purposefully, but I fiddle with mag and parallax for best image, and when I come out from behind the scope, low 30's in mag most times. Personal and anecdotal, but at least a data point. I don't think the 35X would go unused, at least for me, in the ATACR.

Parallax is troubling for me.

 

[Chickentoast]

Yesterday I happen to be in Colorado Springs so I stopped in and looked at the Burris XTR 3 and a Leopold Mark 5 I didn't take him outside but fit and finish that Mark V is a wonderful scope I loved the turrets on it from the store Eyeglass and very crisp and popped. The birds was really nice but the turrets wasn't near as nice and I really liked the mark 5 and the button on there for the turret

Agree re: Mk5HD turrets vs XTR3. Contrast is a touch better too, but Burris brighter. Resolution is the same, but the FOV in the XTR3 seems miles ahead when you go from one to the other, looking out at distance.

 

[Schw15]

Agree re: Mk5HD turrets vs XTR3. Contrast is a touch better too, but Burris brighter. Resolution is the same, but the FOV in the XTR3 seems miles ahead when you go from one to the other, looking out at distance.

Yeah that's the problem with looking at the Scopes in the stores some people let you take him out others don't but I might be trying a mark 5 in the future what that p r 1 mil reticle. I just ordered a minox long-range to try that out

 

[Chickentoast]

^Nice, please do give some impressions when you get that Minox, especially compared to the Mk5HD. I would like to try a ZP5, but reports of unit variability scared me off.

 

[Dragoon300]

There are many different requirements, and perceptions regarding an optics magnification and it's intended use. Personally, I bought the S&B 5-45 x 56 PM II because of the the range of magnification. I don't use the 5x much, but I do use the 45x alot. When I bought it, the NF 7-35 was available, and was my 2nd choice. I am glad I got the 5-45 mostly because of the higher magnification, but also for the lower. I have more "tools in the box" so to speak. If I were dedicated to a particular discipline I may have decided on something else, however I want to cover as many possibilities as I can. I have it on a DT SRS-A1 with several different barrels and calibers, and this one scope covers all nicely. I have had this scope for about 3 years now, and the deal I got on it would still be considered good today. There are now more scopes of this type to choose from, but none that I like better. It's not perfect, nor is it for everyone, but it is a quality instrument and does a great job for me.

 

[Schw15]

^Nice, please do give some impressions when you get that Minox, especially compared to the Mk5HD. I would like to try a ZP5, but reports of unit variability scared me off.

I heard they had some mishaps in begining with zp5 and the lr but they seem to got it all worked out. I really wanted the zp5 but decided to try the lr perfect cross over hunting and elr i hope. It gets here tomorrow so i will let you know. I live across the road from my shooting range and have the gongs at 1780 from my porch so i will get to test it out to distance. I dont have a mark 5 but thinking on trying one later on

 

[Chickentoast]

I heard they had some mishaps in begining with zp5 and the lr but they seem to got it all worked out. I really wanted the zp5 but decided to try the lr perfect cross over hunting and elr i hope. It gets here tomorrow so i will let you know. I live across the road from my shooting range and have the gongs at 1780 from my porch so i will get to test it out to distance. I dont have a mark 5 but thinking on trying one later on

You lucky SOB! That's one of the requirements for my next property - shoot LR off the back porch... hopefully moving this summer.

 

[Schw15]

You lucky SOB! That's one of the requirements for my next property - shoot LR off the back porch... hopefully moving this summer.

Well i dont own it its the local shooting range i just live right next to it haha basically mine haha. I will be shooting 1 mile tomorrow. We have long range days all day friday. Morning in saturday sunday and monday sun up til 930 am it goes out to 2000 yards.

 

[ceruleanblue]

Yesterday I happen to be in Colorado Springs so I stopped in and looked at the Burris XTR 3 and a Leopold Mark 5 I didn't take him outside but fit and finish that Mark V is a wonderful scope I loved the turrets on it from the store Eyeglass and very crisp and popped. The birds was really nice but the turrets wasn't near as nice and I really liked the mark 5 and the button on there for the turret

Schw15, you should write a book. You have a unique writing style. It may sound crazy, but every sentence in your reply was nice to read.