Rifle Scopes What scope would you recommend for someone who has never owned one before and wants to by something decent?

[OH_FAL]

I've owned a lot of milsurp rifles, an AR & AK, a couple FALs and shoot them as a hobby, so I'm not a hunter and I'm getting old enough that presbyopia should hit any day now and my vision has peaked enough that iron sights are getting harder to use. I am looking to buy a rifle, say Tikka T3, Bergara B-14, Sauer 101, etc. in 6.5 x 55 or .308 and putting a scope on it that will allow me to do some moderately long range shooting (600yds or more) or go hunting should I get the mind to do that some day in a state where you can use something other than a shotgun. I want to break myself into benchrest shooting gently.

I don't know too much about what I need except that FFP sounds like a better idea than SFP for my purposes and I don't want something too heavy to comfortably carry should I take my rifle into the field. I probably want an illuminated reticle and milrad graduations/milrad adjustments. I think $1500 OTD price would be my limit, but I wouldn't let a few hundred stop me from moving to a much better alternative if it was just that much more. Some of the scopes I've considered have been Steiner's T5Xi (though outside my price limit), Vortex PST II, Nikon's apparently not ready for prime time FX1000, and Nightforce's SHV. Any other suggestions on scope choices or specifications that would be worthwhile? Any feedback on a comparison of those scopes I've named in relation to one another? I'm looking for durability and quality in equal measure - the latter in both construction and image.

 

[Bender]

Tx5i or SHV ffp if you can swing it. Burris XTR2 or SWFA before a PSTI/II... or look on here for used.

 

[Rerun7]

Take a look at the Bushnell LRTS. Ive owned the xtr2, pst, swfa and a whole host of others. In that price range for a scope that can cross over from plinking steel at 1000 to hunting the Bushnell is hard to beat.

 

[SLG]

Take a look at the Bushnell LRTS. Ive owned the xtr2, pst, swfa and a whole host of others. In that price range for a scope that can cross over from plinking steel at 1000 to hunting the Bushnell is hard to beat.

FWIW, I prefer the less expensive LRHSi, but I completely agree that it may be the best, low cost crossover out there. Mine has very impressive glass as well as tracking correctly. Very usable reticle too.

 

[OH_FAL]

Take a look at the Bushnell LRTS. Ive owned the xtr2, pst, swfa and a whole host of others. In that price range for a scope that can cross over from plinking steel at 1000 to hunting the Bushnell is hard to beat.

I see Bushnell, Burris and Weaver being mentioned as options here (in other threads as well), but when I was a kid, all those were, at least for binocs, mediocre options compared to something like a pair of Steiners. Have they gotten better or have they always had a higher end line that approached some of the better mid-price options? I guess I'm prejudiced against them since I've always heard anyone mentioning good quality American optics reference Leupold as the only option, otherwise you bought foreign.

 

[OH_FAL]

Tx5i or SHV ffp if you can swing it. Burris XTR2 or SWFA before a PSTI/II... or look on here for used.

Of those two, which would you say topped the other, or if hard to compare, what do you believe are their respective strengths in comparison? I would probably list these two as what I would consider as my first choices over the others I mentioned, even though they cost more.

 

[alfmoonspace]

At least with Bushnell, their higher end stuff as come a really long way. Scopes are made in Japan and they have a lot going for it.

For starters, I really like a 10x fixed like a SWFA SS.

LRTS or LRHSi will give you variable power with dependable tracking and fantastic glass for the price. Are there better scopes out there, sure. But for the cost, they are hard to beat.

 

[Bender]

Of those two, which would you say topped the other, or if hard to compare, what do you believe are their respective strengths in comparison? I would probably list these two as what I would consider as my first choices over the others I mentioned, even though they cost more.

It comes down to pick a reticle you like. Both are great scopes. Do you plan to hold or dial? Bushnell makes some outstanding scopes as well in that price range. Sig Tango 6 is another, or my new favorite, the Leupold MK 5 at $2000 ish....

 

[Bender]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/bnib-sig-tango-6-4-24x50.6891998/

Sig Tango 6 for $1500

 

[OH_FAL]

It comes down to pick a reticle you like. Both are great scopes. Do you plan to hold or dial? Bushnell makes some outstanding scopes as well in that price range. Sig Tango 6 is another, or my new favorite, the Leupold MK 5 at $2000 ish....

Hold vs. dial? I'm not quite sure what you mean here.

 

[OH_FAL]

Okay, I think I know what you mean now - dialing in an exact elevation/windage change versus holdover to get where I want.

I would think I'd probably do both. I expect windage is more important to dial in than elevation, with regard to using Kentucky windage/holdover to hit POA. Since I might use the rifle to hunt with, I feel doing both and developing skill for taking shots without dialing would be a skill to learn.

 

[Bender]

Okay, I think I know what you mean now - dialing in an exact elevation/windage change versus holdover to get where I want.

Yes. A Christmas tree reticle is specially made for holding over. A standard modified Mil dot lends its self to dialing, although, you can dial both very effectively, holds on a simple reticle are more challenging, especially in wind. Tracking is THE MOST important aspect of a good scope equal to durability/Zero repeatability. Glass is always subjective, any glass in ~$1500 scopes are usually excellent and subjective to the user.

 

[OH_FAL]

Yes. A Christmas tree reticle is specially made for holding over. A standard modified Mil dot lends its self to dialing, although, you can dial both very effectively, holds on a simple reticle are more challenging, especially in wind. Tracking is THE MOST important aspect of a good scope equal to durability/Zero repeatability. Glass is always subjective, any glass in ~$1500 scopes are usually excellent and subjective to the user.

So, should one take proper tracking to be a measure of construction quality since it has to be repeatable every time its adjusted?

 

[stilesg57]

Love that the Bushnell LRHSi is being called a low-cost optic here; when GAP ships mine later this month it’ll be the most expensive scope I’ve ever owned by a factor of 2. Still never thought id spend that kind of money on something with the Bushnell logo on the side of it, ha.

Yes dialing vs holding is an important distinction/preference. I generally like to hold on a great reticle or dial for elevation and hold for wind (not much experience shooting past 400 so wind is still a “feel” thing for me). Your preference for dialing vs holding is also important in that it affects your reticle choice and if Leupold’s light weight and great glass is worth not tracking

 

[OH_FAL]

Love that the Bushnell LRHSi is being called a low-cost optic here; when GAP ships mine later this month it’ll be the most expensive scope I’ve ever owned by a factor of 2. Still never thought id spend that kind of money on something with the Bushnell logo on the side of it, ha.

Yes dialing vs holding is an important distinction/preference. I generally like to hold on a great reticle or dial for elevation and hold for wind (not much experience shooting past 400 so wind is still a “feel” thing for me). Your preference for dialing vs holding is also important in that it affects your reticle choice and if Leupold’s light weight and great glass is worth not tracking

Is the implication of your last sentence that Leupold doesn't track well?

 

[Bender]

Love that the Bushnell LRHSi is being called a low-cost optic here; when GAP ships mine later this month it’ll be the most expensive scope I’ve ever owned by a factor of 2. Still never thought id spend that kind of money on something with the Bushnell logo on the side of it, ha.

Yes dialing vs holding is an important distinction/preference. I generally like to hold on a great reticle or dial for elevation and hold for wind (not much experience shooting past 400 so wind is still a “feel” thing for me). Your preference for dialing vs holding is also important in that it affects your reticle choice and if Leupold’s light weight and great glass is worth not tracking

Mk 5 tracks like a tank... the 6, when it was first out had problems, but is now fixed. The MK5 is tough to beat for the price....Tracking is always #1 priority.....

 

[OH_FAL]

What's the difference between Bushnell's hunting and tactical elite scope lines, beyond a fraction of an inch in length and around an ounce difference (and the very similar reticles)?

 

[5RWill]

For 1500 i'd 100% look for a used MK5 5-25 or a DMR II pro as soon as they hit.

Those are honestly the two best scopes on the market for 1500-2000, i don't honestly think it's a contest either. The MK5 competes way above it's price range.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-leupold-mark-5.6869995/page-11#post-6948253
Here's a write up i did on my 5-25 mk5 comparing it to a NF ATACR 5-25 side by side. There are lots of places to find discounted MK5s as well. You'll also notice many other members who pretty much share my sentiment, Leupold hit it out of the park with this scope. My turret gripes aside they only real issue is lack of a clean tree reticle. Everything else about the MK5 honestly couldn't have been done better.

 

[fdkay]

Okay, I think I know what you mean now - dialing in an exact elevation/windage change versus holdover to get where I want.

I would think I'd probably do both. I expect windage is more important to dial in than elevation, with regard to using Kentucky windage/holdover to hit POA. Since I might use the rifle to hunt with, I feel doing both and developing skill for taking shots without dialing would be a skill to learn.

Actually, no. Dial elevation but hold wind.
The reason is that the wind is ever changing.
While elevation does indeed change, it won't change as rapidly as wind.
With modern reticles, the challenge is reading the wind, not the proper hold offs for it.

 

[SLG]

The

What's the difference between Bushnell's hunting and tactical elite scope lines, beyond a fraction of an inch in length and around an ounce difference (and the very similar reticles)?

LRHS has a circle around the crosshairs, the LRTS does not. The LRHS has capped windage, the LRTS does not. The LRHS does not come with a power throw lever, the LRTS does. For about a $300 savings, (the cost of great rings and base) I think the LRHS is way better, and I prefer its features for what I do.

 

[spife7980]

What's the difference between Bushnell's hunting and tactical elite scope lines, beyond a fraction of an inch in length and around an ounce difference (and the very similar reticles)?

The lrts has exposed windage and a g3 reticle. The lrhs has a capped windage and their g3H reticle has the circle for low power use.
I too never thought I would buy a bushnell but they bought Bausch and lomb and started making good stuff. I like my lrtsi

 

[fdkay]

The LrtSi has an exposed but LOCKING windage.
I really like my 4.5-18

 

[W54/XM-388]

I think $1500 OTD price would be my limit, but I wouldn't let a few hundred stop me from moving to a much better alternative if it was just that much more.

If you can push yourself into the $2200 - $2300 range, you can get one of the S&B 5-25x56 scopes when they come up here used for a good deal. It would be hard to go wrong with one of those.

 

[cashewnut]

I think the Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 is a *lot* of scope for the money and a great first purchase.

 

[CSTactical]

I think the Nightforce SHV 4-14x50 F1 is a *lot* of scope for the money and a great first purchase.

I agree! That's a very good option for that magnification range and price IMO. @OH_FAL we'd be happy to assist you if you'll give us a call at 916-670-1103.

 

[nfngun]

Often over looked check out Sightron SIII series they offer an FFP mill scope. Personally I prefer second focal plan scopes. Sightron SIII are made in Japan and blow away most of the crap out thier in the same price range ... Many of the scopes in $1200-1500 arn’t Japaneese

 

[GeoffatBurris]

You're asking the wrong question, I think.

Don't focus on the brand of the optic yet. Focus instead on the features you want. The size, the reticle, front focal/rear, mil/moa, etc.
Is a zero stop critical to you, or just nice to have?

Once you've got your list of what you want, then find the scopes that meet your requirements. THEN ask for opinions on the brands. THEN buy the Steiner or Burris.

 

[VegasHKShooter]

While I don’t have much experience with the Bushnell upper end stuff, I know some guys that do seem to like them quite a bit. I respect SLG’s opinion, so I’d look at them.
What I do know well is NF. I can tell you for the price point, the NF SHV 4-14 F1 is fantastic. The reticle is somewhat plain, and the turrets are only 5 mil per revolution, but there are going to be some small concessions made to meet a price point. In the SHV line, NF did things like limit reticle choices and keep the turret system very simple, instead of cutting quality. The SHV line is still a NightForce with all the quality and durability that goes along with them. I had one and loved it. I just sold it to a buddy to fund another project. My buddy has it on his Ruger Precision Rifle, and still rocks it out past 1000yds.
At $1500 you are at a decent place where quality and cost meet. You can get quite a bit of scope there. Not the top end tier 1 stuff, but certainly VERY good.
I would absolutely stay away from anything Vortex that didn’t start with Razor. Plenty of folks will jump on me and say their (fill in the model) has shot fine for xyz rounds. There are plenty of them that go down too. Trust me, I’ve seen it.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. Take it for what it’s worth. The NF SHV, at the price point hits above its class.

 

[OLD308]

I have two NF ATACRs, both have given me no trouble at all. I bought a Bushnell HDMR 2 to find out what all the fuss was about regrading Horus. Reticle aside (don’t want to side track thread) I’ll buy another HDMR 2 or DMR 2 before I buy another ATAcR. Practical differences are not there to justify the $1,000 up cost. Only down fall of the HDMR 2 is paralex adjustment is not low enough for NRL22 competition. So I’m looking at the NF SHV F1 for that. Love my ATACRs, but Bushnell is really coming on strong these days.

 

[Quarter Horse]

OP, your in luck for a couple of reasons. The first is that there are more than a handful of good options available that fit your parameters. Eight years ago there were essentially none in your price range that were FFP, dialed accurately, would always RTZ and had a record of resistance to hard use. The second is that you have no history with scopes in the dollar range you have chosen. All of the scopes that have been suggested are probably going to look quite good to you.

The SWFA scopes have been mentioned and my suggestion is the 5-20X50 HD. Here's what you get. Glass that hits well above it's weight. A super history of reliability. SWFA's warranty which is lifetime without regard to ownership (every important to resale). Japanese manufacture (Low). It's Mil-Mil with 10mil per turn turrets. There are two models. One has illum. and one does not.
ards
You do not get a tree reticle, daylight illum. or a zero stop.

I dial elevation and hold wind so the mill-quad reticle is fine by me. The 10mil turrets will allow you to reach a thousand yards, with either round you suggested, in less than one turn. If you still want a zero stop there is a shim set available that works well and is now approved for use on the 5-20. The moment a nice used one is offered for under $900.00, in the PX, it's usually gone. New the illum. is $1500.00 and the non-illum is $1300.00. There are currently a number on SWFA's sample list.
https://samplelist.com/swfa-ss-hd-5-20x50-tactical-30mm-riflescope-demo-b-178641.html

 

[OH_FAL]

If you can push yourself into the $2200 - $2300 range, you can get one of the S&B 5-25x56 scopes when they come up here used for a good deal. It would be hard to go wrong with one of those.

I bought a used car once and I got sorta cheated - and by a relative. If I'm no expert, I'd rather buy new and not chance it. I don't know what might be wrong with the scope and I'd be SOL if it were, or I might never get it at all with a private deal, though I expect the key is only dealing with long-time members with a track record of prior deals here.

 

[Bender]

I bought a used car once and I got sorta cheated - and by a relative. If I'm no expert, I'd rather buy new and not chance it. I don't know what might be wrong with the scope and I'd be SOL if it were, or I might never get it at all with a private deal, though I expect the key is only dealing with long-time members with a track record of prior deals here.

Top line used scopes have a no BS warranty that follows the scope for life. Buy used with confidence.

 

[Bender]

SWFA 5-25 HD has AMAZING glass at its price point..... But..... it lacks features like a Zero stop. A used Burris or Bushnell would check off the right boxes. I love SWFA, they are tough as a red brick, but getting long in the tooth compared to the Leupy Mk 5 or XTR2......

 

[OH_FAL]

Top line used scopes have a no BS warranty that follows the scope for life. Buy used with confidence.

I thought the Germans were stingy on the warranties, other than Steiner.

 

[patriot07]

If I was going to limit myself on magnification, I'd go with something like the Razor Gen 2 3-18. They can be had used for $1500-$1600, and they'll have better optics, turrets, controls, and eyebox than almost any other scope discussed here, and they have a good reticle as well. So I wouldn't consider an SHV if your budget is at the $1500 mark.

I don't personally think anything Bushnell offers is the best value in the price range, so I won't recommend any of those, but it is a popular brand on SH. I think their glass, like Burris, is far behind the other options at the same price point. But who knows - maybe my eyes and their coatings just don't go well together.

PST Gen 2 3-15 or 5-25 would both be decent options. SWFA HD 5-20 is a great option. Those are both around $1k (PST new, SWFA used).

Buddy of mine owned a Steiner and I just sold it for him. It's not that it wasn't a nice scope - it is. But the problem is that it's in that middle range between $1k scopes that make compromises and $2k+ scopes that really don't make many compromises, and the performance is closer to the lower group than the higher group. If you're going to start making compromises past the $2k mark, I think you're just better off saving your money and going with one of the lower-priced options, unless you find a great deal on a Razor Gen 2, which honestly is a fantastic option for $1500-$1600.

 

[Freediver111]

SWFA 5-25 HD has AMAZING glass at its price point..... But..... it lacks features like a Zero stop. A used Burris or Bushnell would check off the right boxes. I love SWFA, they are tough as a red brick, but getting long in the tooth compared to the Leupy Mk 5 or XTR2......

Aftermarket zero stops now approved by SWFA and covered under warranty. Simple reticle, either that works for you or not.
I've heard very good things about the LRTS and LRHS.
I see mostly good review soon the Burris XTRii, but for some reason I wonder why there's a ton for sale in the PX. Probably a coincidence, but seems like a lot for sale.

 

[steve123]

Every scope mentioned has strengths and weaknesses, or once bought, things about it you might not like once you've used it for a while.

For instance, I was using my Athlon Cronus BTR 4.5-29x56 during a NRL22 shoot last weekend. That scope is superb in so many ways, except it has .2 mil holds for the first mil going down the crosshair, which I prefer, but it transitions to .5 mils after that, it's the only thing I don't like about this scope, especially for a 22 using holds from past the 1 mil. Too me a reticle should have either .2's or .5's, I thought I could tolerate .5's, but no, I won't anymore.

So I'm putting my Athlon Ares BTR 4.5-27x50 on that 22 which is a scope that continually grows on me every time I use it. .2's round about, oh yeah!

 

[GeoffatBurris]

I see mostly good review soon the Burris XTRii, but for some reason I wonder why there's a ton for sale in the PX. Probably a coincidence, but seems like a lot for sale.

Maybe same reason that there are always a lot of Toyotas and Hondas for sale on Craigslist?

 

[Freediver111]

Maybe same reason that there are always a lot of Toyotas and Hondas for sale on Craigslist?

Because people can flip rice grinders for way over their used resale value?
Kidding aside, my statement is an unreasonable conclusion to be wary of Burris. Although, wasn’t there some issues with the XTRii’s? I seem to recall reading some reviews and some guys were reporting issues.

 

[W54/XM-388]

You often see a lot of the "Good Value" scopes for sale because they were bought kind of in waves as they were popular, but just like tripods, people who start out "Value" usually wind up buying and selling a line of them before they get to the top one that does everything just the way they want it to & stay with it for a long time.

 

[GeoffatBurris]

Because people can flip rice grinders for way over their used resale value?
Kidding aside, my statement is an unreasonable conclusion to be wary of Burris. Although, wasn’t there some issues with the XTRii’s? I seem to recall reading some reviews and some guys were reporting issues.

The only issue I've heard of was about 3 years ago, and a higher than acceptable return rate due to lose of illumination. I think the only change required was how they assembled the power cable inside the scope. It was before my time here. There's a lifetime warranty of course.

 

[Freediver111]

The only issue I've heard of was about 3 years ago, and a higher than acceptable return rate due to lose of illumination. I think the only change required was how they assembled the power cable inside the scope. It was before my time here. There's a lifetime warranty of course.

Would they be pretty comparable to an SWFA 5-20? My buddy really likes my SWFA and would prefer to buy used, but there aren’t many for sale. I told him he should just buy off the sample list, but if the Burris is as good, maybe I’ll steer him that way.

 

[patriot07]

SWFA glass is in another league from the Burris. Otherwise, they’re comparable. Burris has zs, both are built wel.

 

[GeoffatBurris]

Would they be pretty comparable to an SWFA 5-20? My buddy really likes my SWFA and would prefer to buy used, but there aren’t many for sale. I told him he should just buy off the sample list, but if the Burris is as good, maybe I’ll steer him that way.

I get paid to tell you that the Burris is a much better choice. Luckily there are one or two people around here who will happily give you their opinions on that question. Heck, I didn't even realize there were glass leagues.

We appreciate being considered, and if you have any questions let me know.

 

[Freediver111]

I get paid to tell you that the Burris is a much better choice. Luckily there are one or two people around here who will happily give you their opinions on that question. Heck, I didn't even realize there were glass leagues.

We appreciate being considered, and if you have any questions let me know.

Ha, I just saw your handle so I get it now!
Sorry, that was a dumb question to ask you.
I’ll do a little research, but Iran either a Burris, Bushnell, or SWFA and he prefers to stay in the $800 used price point.

 

[CharlieNC]

Based on your comments, I suggest you get a very basic starter scope to shoot for a while so you can learn more about what you want and need. At this stage you are not likely to buy long term satisfaction the first time. A swafa 10 or 12x fixed power is a sound investment for $300 to learn with, and serve as a great backup; or sell it for less than $50 loss. Cheap "rent". This is the advice I wish I had received early on.

 

[N-C]

Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x44mm CDS-ZL2 Side Focus Metric Riflescope w/Illuminated

https://www.opticsplanet.com/leupol...?_iv_code=LU-RS-LRTMR-172758&image=985fd779e9

 

[nfngun]

A quick lesson in scopes ... Based on country of origin they will most likely be the same! OEM manufacturing ... Japaneses scopes come from 2 sources both sources are quality builders one company is higher end then the other ... the premier builder being Japaneese These 2 Japaneese companies aren't competing against each other ... they serve 2 distinct price points / markets ...

In the low to mid range market China, Taiwan, Malaysia ect. The major companies have 2nd parties build there stuff same goes for just about every cheap product made in the world today. A scope in the same price range with similar specs and stamped made "entercountryoforiginhere" chances are come from the same factory. Its cookie cutter products with slight spec or aesthetic differences to make them look like Brand X.

DON'T GET HUNG UP ON BRAND NAMES .. They are irrelevant util you get into the higher end scopes where parent companies start to use there own patented turrets designs, Reticles ect some may even make parts in house but many still import high end parts and just assemble here in the US.

If you want a dam fine $300-400 scope .. Weaver V Series Made in Japan
$600-1200 ... Sightron SIII made in Japan
$1500 Plus ... throw a dart at the premium scope lines most made in Japan with a mix of high end European companies ... Vortex AMG to my knowledge the only true American Made scope ...

 

[OH_FAL]

A quick lesson in scopes ... Based on country of origin they will most likely be the same! OEM manufacturing ... Japaneses scopes come from 2 sources both sources are quality builders one company is higher end then the other ... the premier builder being Japaneese These 2 Japaneese companies aren't competing against each other ... they serve 2 distinct price points / markets ...

In the low to mid range market China, Taiwan, Malaysia ect. The major companies have 2nd parties build there stuff same goes for just about every cheap product made in the world today. A scope in the same price range with similar specs and stamped made "entercountryoforiginhere" chances are come from the same factory. Its cookie cutter products with slight spec or aesthetic differences to make them look like Brand X.

DON'T GET HUNG UP ON BRAND NAMES .. They are irrelevant util you get into the higher end scopes where parent companies start to use there own patented turrets designs, Reticles ect some may even make parts in house but many still import high end parts and just assemble here in the US.

If you want a dam fine $300-400 scope .. Weaver V Series Made in Japan
$600-1200 ... Sightron SIII made in Japan
$1500 Plus ... throw a dart at the premium scope lines most made in Japan with a mix of high end European companies ... Vortex AMG to my knowledge the only true American Made scope ...

Who are these two Japanese OEMs and how do I determine whose product is which?

 

[OH_FAL]

Based on your comments, I suggest you get a very basic starter scope to shoot for a while so you can learn more about what you want and need. At this stage you are not likely to buy long term satisfaction the first time. A swafa 10 or 12x fixed power is a sound investment for $300 to learn with, and serve as a great backup; or sell it for less than $50 loss. Cheap "rent". This is the advice I wish I had received early on.

If you're addressing me and not some of the others who have piggybacked onto this thread (which is fine with me, BTW), I do expect that, but I also expect I wouldn't be happy with a $300 scope for this set-up. I'm probably leaning toward the Nightforce SHV F1 at this point and don't feel that I would make too big a mistake buying one and that I could still find plenty use for it even if it isn't the best at the price or most ideal scope out there. I might do as you say with something cheap and fixed power for the sake of mounting it on my AR - 6 x 42 SWFA might be a bit large, so I was thinking about the even cheaper 3 x 32 Nikon P223 - any thoughts?