What upper receivers are you guys using to get a good thermal fit?

What I question now is how tight can a thermal fit be before it should be considered too tight. That was the problem I had with at least one of the BCM uppers that I got. It was so tight that I couldn't true the receiver with neither of two tools. When I went to fit the barrel to one particular upper, I had a time getting it in.

I have a BCM upper that I used for Proof 18" SS in 6 ARC. Proof had a recall on the extensions, I got mine back from Proof and I swear the new extension is bigger diameter. The upper + barrel are sitting in my basement as a project, last time I tried seating the barrel I got halfway in and it stuck on me. Trying to heat the throat to tap it free, still stuck. Same throat fit the prior extension pretty damned snug but still, it didn't stick on me halfway in.
 
I have a BCM upper that I used for Proof 18" SS in 6 ARC. Proof had a recall on the extensions, I got mine back from Proof and I swear the new extension is bigger diameter. The upper + barrel are sitting in my basement as a project, last time I tried seating the barrel I got halfway in and it stuck on me. Trying to heat the throat to tap it free, still stuck. Same throat fit the prior extension pretty damned snug but still, it didn't stick on me halfway in.
This is what I use to remove a stuck barrel:
This video demonstrates it:
 
That's exactly the process I used (JP video) with wooden dowel and a dead blow hammer. I wish I had taken calipers to the extensions, old and new, but didn't.

Most likely I didn't get it warm enough -- but I'm using the same propane tank & torch as used on a handful of other BCM thermofits.
 
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I have a BCM upper that I used for Proof 18" SS in 6 ARC. Proof had a recall on the extensions, I got mine back from Proof and I swear the new extension is bigger diameter. The upper + barrel are sitting in my basement as a project, last time I tried seating the barrel I got halfway in and it stuck on me. Trying to heat the throat to tap it free, still stuck. Same throat fit the prior extension pretty damned snug but still, it didn't stick on me halfway in.

This is what I use to remove a stuck barrel:
This video demonstrates it:

Yeah, been there. For me, the wooden bowl or rod or whatever you want to call it just resulted in a bunch of wood debris all over the place. I also wasn't crazy about using an upper fixture that would have put most of the force into the pivot pin and/or take down pin lug. I happened to have a pretty beefy optic riser from leupold that I dont use. It has both recoil lugs and 5 screws for the clamp that are spec'd to 60 in-lbs each, so I attached that to the rail on the upper, flipped it upside down and clamped the riser into my vice. I then used a brass rod after applying a good bit of heat. I did get things apart.

Just out of curiosity, I wondered if it was a problem with the machining of the upper or perhaps the anodizing was just too thick. I had this little tool that is not unlike the tool used to hone the cylinder walls on an engine and used it to see if I could open the upper up a bit, without destroying the anodizing. I was able to improve the fit a good bit and was able to get the truing tool into the upper after that, but at that point, I didn't have any confidence in the upper due to how hot I had to get it to get the barrel out. I trashed it after the little experiment.
 
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Yeah, been there. For me, the wooden bowl or rod or whatever you want to call it just resulted in a bunch of wood debris all over the place. I also wasn't crazy about using an upper fixture that would have put most of the force into the pivot pin and/or take down pin lug. I happened to have a pretty beefy optic riser from leupold that I dont use. It has both recoil lugs and 5 screws for the clamp that are spec'd to 60 in-lbs each, so I attached that to the rail on the upper, flipped it upside down and clamped the riser into my vice. I then used a brass rod after applying a good bit of heat. I did get things apart.

Just out of curiosity, I wondered if it was a problem with the machining of the upper or perhaps the anodizing was just too thick. I had this little tool that is not unlike the tool used to hone the cylinder walls on an engine and used it to see if I could open the upper up a bit, without destroying the anodizing. I was able to improve the fit a good bit and was able to get the truing tool into the upper after that, but at that point, I didn't have any confidence in the upper due to how hot I had to get it to get the barrel out. I trashed it after the little experiment.
Good point about not putting too much stress on the pivot pin holes. If there was a barrel that was really stuck in there I also have the JP upper vice blocks that secure it via the pic rail.
 
Note that if you want a thermofit upper from BKings you need to get the Mod 0 one

BKF M4 MOD-0 Stripped Upper Receiver ($65)
I know, the regular one will do. It's for a 7.5 pistol, all I have is pipe, POF DIctator and A419 linear comp. JL Billet handguard too. It completes the upper for me. Will get the Mod 0 later when it's time for a 20".
 
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I just would not put a torch to my upper reciever....seems almost comical.
Definitely not necessary for an accurate AR build.
And there's an easier way to disassemble.
But if you like that method you're certainly welcome to do it to "your" reciever ...it ain't mine.
 
I just would not put a torch to my upper reciever....seems almost comical.
Definitely not necessary for an accurate AR build.
And there's an easier way to disassemble.
But if you like that method you're certainly welcome to do it to "your" reciever ...it ain't mine.
You can do it with a heat gun... dont have to use an open flame but it doesnt hurt a thing.
 
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I just would not put a torch to my upper reciever....seems almost comical.
Definitely not necessary for an accurate AR build.
And there's an easier way to disassemble.
But if you like that method you're certainly welcome to do it to "your" reciever ...it ain't mine.
Why almost comical? What is better, a heat gun? For someone who has used torches w/ oxy-acetylene flame, way hotter than propane gas -- what's the worry? I'm gonna melt that aluminum? With propane flame on a standard torch head? That would explain why, as I go gently, the barrel extension gets stuck because the throat wasn't hot enough, I suppose?

What's your solution for the "thermofit" undersized throat uppers?
 
Addressing the thermal fit...you do not know the size of either component.
The barrel extension or the T7075 aluminum reciever.
But there is some interference, cause they don't slip fit together.
So your gonna heat the aluminum hot enough to slide over the barrel extension.

How hot?
Heating... heat treated 7075 aluminum is not a good idea with an open flame.

You can cause stress fractures in the material...there are 3 or more other elements in significance quantity, like zinc, magnesium, manganese, iron etc.
It's done in a furnace, for a known period of time.

What about quenching and aging the 7075, especially if ya got it too hot. These are important steps that keep 7075 in its state of maximum strength for your reciever to hold the heavier steel barrel in the first place.
What effect the anodizing have on heating before and after.

Ya don't know if ya stressed or bent the reciever or taken away some of its orginial strength...ya didn't quench or age it, the heat wasn't applied evenly...in an open flame, so ya have hot spots...possibly weak spots or one side in your reciever.
Definitely not back to orginial heat treatment needed for a completely strong reciever, and a reciever full of stress and weak spots...no thanks.

But it's stuck together...

My solution ...I would not do a thermal fit with an "open flame" ever...on my reciever.

But you go ahead, and heat it up til it fits with your open flame ...it's your reciever not mine.


And...It's not necessary glue in works great and will shoot lots of 1/2" and even a few
1/4" 5 shot groups, when a good barrel and accuracy enhancements are employed.
 
JP Enterprises has been doing it this way for years as has many others. If any receivers were compromised I think we'd be seeing it now. Only a fool would heat an upper enough to damage it. Thermal expansion starts at the moment anything is heated more then the ambient temp its currently in. It really doesnt take much to get them to expand enough to slip in most barrels. Ive also heated up countless ring gears to slide onto carriers in differentials. Theres times i can still handle the gear bare handed mine you I have to move real quickly, but guess what its now hot enough to slide on. Theres no way in hell heating it that small amount is doing anything.
 
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A quick search resulted in this info. I doubt any of us are heating the receivers to the point of long term failure. They are heated quickly just enough to slide the barrel in and then it dumps heat into the barrel since it has a giant heat sink in the end of it.

Key degradation temperatures for 7075
  • 100°C ($212^{\circ}$F): This is considered the maximum recommended continuous operating temperature for 7075. Its yield strength degrades severely above this point.
  • 150°C ($302^{\circ}$F): At this temperature, the yield strength of 7075 can diminish by as much as 30%. Sustained exposure can cause significant permanent strength loss.
  • 200–300°C ($392–572^{\circ}$F): Strength parameters, including yield and ultimate tensile strength, decrease rapidly in this range.
  • 300°C ($572^{\circ}$F): Exposure to this temperature for just one hour can completely destroy the precipitation-strengthened microstructure, leading to a severe loss of strength.
  • 477–635°C ($890–1,175^{\circ}$F): This is the melting point range for 7075 aluminum alloy, where it loses all solid form and mechanical strength.
 
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Funny I see this thread pop up as I’m currently looking up some numbers for elevated temperature processing on 7075-T6 parts at work. Warm forming/working of 7075-T6 aluminum IS perfectly acceptable and a standard industry practice… I have a spec from NASA open right now regarding that very subject.

I aim for about a 0.001”-0.0015” interference fit between the upper and barrel when doing a thermal fit if I’m doing it with shims. I verify the level of interference with a micrometer on the barrel extension and a very accurate dial bore gauge in the upper. Personally, I won't attempt a thermal fit before verifying the numbers as if things are too tight you're probably going to overheat the upper trying to get it assembled-- you're tempted to just keep heating until it fits! I’m not sure what level of interference fit manufacturers who make thermal fit uppers are boring their uppers to.

For 7075-T6, this spec I’m looking at has a table of maximum acceptable soak times at various temperatures before forming, the table showing the maximum temp and soak times which result in no more than a 5% strength loss. The acceptable soak time at 204C / 400F is 5-10 minutes, 191C / 375F is 30-60 minutes, 177C / 350F is 1-2 hours, 163C / 325F is 2-4 hours, 149C / 300F is 10-12 hours. Heating to 218C / 425F is listed as "time to temperature" only with *zero* permitted dwell time, and at 232C / 450F you will have reduced the strength beyond the 5% allowable and now the part must be re heat treated and aged to restore it to T6 conditions. As the temp goes down the acceptable soak time without losing more than 5% of the strength increases dramatically, which makes perfect sense. Going above those temps and/or beyond those soak times at temp starts to degrade the heat treat and mechanical properties beyond the allowable 5% reduction, and it will require heat treating and aging the material again to get the mechanical properties back to T6 levels.

For example, if you’re wanting a 0.0015” diametric interference fit between the upper and barrel extension you’ll need to make some clearance with a temperature delta so it’s a slip fit.

Putting the steel barrel and extension in a 0F freezer in your kitchen or garage fridge will shrink it 0.0005” from a 75F room.

Heating your aluminum upper to 300F from a 75F room will expand the upper by 0.0028”. That means you’ll now have a 0.0018” slip fit of the extension into the upper and that’s workable as long as you move quickly. According to the spec I’m reading a soak time of up to 10-12 hours is acceptable at 300F. If you want to control that, put the upper in an oven with a thermocouple attached to monitor it and don’t heat it with a torch or heat gun which can create local hot spots on the outer contact surfaces (even though the excellent thermal conductivity of aluminum will help prevent overheating the torch / heat gun contact area.) At 300F you have 10-12 hours of acceptable soaking time before you degrade the mechanical properties of the 7075-T6 upper beyond 5%; that is a very safe working temp without worrying about messing up the heat treat on your upper unless you forget it in the oven overnight.

Heating to 325F will get the upper to expand another 0.0003” (0.003” upper expansion, now you have 0.0021” slip fit between the barrel and upper) and per the spec that temperature is acceptable for 2-4 hours soak. Taking the upper to 350F will get you another 0.0003” expansion for 0.0024” slip fit between the barrel and upper and 350F is acceptable for 1-2 hours.

Heating the upper to 400F for no more than 5-10 minutes dwell time is also acceptable per the spec I’m looking at and taking it to 375-400F will give you even more clearance to make slipping the barrel extension in easier without it locking up, but at 375-400F the permissible dwell times are much shorter; IMO you’re much safer keeping the upper around 300-325F max as you have a lot more safety margin regarding strength decrease from the very long permissible dwell times at the lower temps, and doing it in a temperature controlled oven gives you much better control over the temp of the part than say “about 10 seconds rotating in the flame of a propane torch or 30 seconds in front of a 1500W heat gun.”

If you are really worried about altering the mechanical properties of your upper, bonding is certainly the safest solution… but disassembly without destruction of the upper or barrel can be a bit difficult depending on what adhesive you used, and if you need to use heat to weaken the adhesive to remove the barrel, all the above mentioned temperature and time guidelines apply.

Note that the spec I'm referencing says heating 7075-T6 above 450F for any amount of time will reduce strength beyond 5% and requires re heat treating and aging to restore the mechanical properties, and now recall the disassembly instructions for loctite 609 and 620 suggests heating it to 500F... Now what's easier on the upper, a 0.001-0.0015" thermal interference fit done at 300-325F, or reusing an upper that was heated hot enough to release a barrel bedded in with loctite 609 or 620?

IMO thermal fitting a 7075-T6 upper is perfectly safe without degrading the mechanical properties of the upper provided you don’t overheat or overdwell the upper at the elevated temp.
 
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A quick search resulted in this info. I doubt any of us are heating the receivers to the point of long term failure. They are heated quickly just enough to slide the barrel in and then it dumps heat into the barrel since it has a giant heat sink in the end of it.

Key degradation temperatures for 7075
  • 100°C ($212^{\circ}$F): This is considered the maximum recommended continuous operating temperature for 7075. Its yield strength degrades severely above this point.
  • 150°C ($302^{\circ}$F): At this temperature, the yield strength of 7075 can diminish by as much as 30%. Sustained exposure can cause significant permanent strength loss.
  • 200–300°C ($392–572^{\circ}$F): Strength parameters, including yield and ultimate tensile strength, decrease rapidly in this range.
  • 300°C ($572^{\circ}$F): Exposure to this temperature for just one hour can completely destroy the precipitation-strengthened microstructure, leading to a severe loss of strength.
  • 477–635°C ($890–1,175^{\circ}$F): This is the melting point range for 7075 aluminum alloy, where it loses all solid form and mechanical strength.
How warm does the barrel extension get in an extended firing session?

Usually those temperature zones given that way are rough zones. Heat can be applied softly or with focus, ambient in baking situations vs pinpoint flame or electrometal etc.

The more focused it is, the faster the "negatives" crop up. There's also intentional heating "heat treating" situation as well as intentional quenching. Metalwork is a wee bit complex even if metalworkers are seen as blue collar dimwits to the average white collar fancy person.
 
You do not use any heat at all to remove a barrel from the reciever with bering sleeve high temperature loctite 620.
An oak dowel does the job.
 
If the barrel extension is oversize .
Pull the alignment pin, put in a lathe and polish down.
Blue dykem the extension as the part is polished to size to find the high slots.
Polish until its a slight interference fit...twist and push on the reciever until it goes all the way on...no heat...just a snug fit.
Reinstall alignment pin... easy and no heat, no glue, preserve the integrity of the aluminum upper. BAT machine used to make barrel extensions in different sizes for this purpose.