What would you consider match accuracy?

[beetroot]

If you can maintain 1moa out to 75yards, 2moa to 150yards an 3moa past 200yards your setup will be more than capable of winning a match.

I've found out to 150yards even CCI Standard is good enough for a match, you might get tiny little targets on the likes of a KYL rack but these will typically be around 50yards where it's more than consistent enough.

Once you stretch nearer 200yards ammo consistency becomes a bigger concern, CCI Standard starts having to much vertical spread and I can't be confident misses are my fault.

 

[rick137]

Isn't consistency self defined by each shooter?


Ummmmm.......nope.

Everyone is a critic.

All ya' have to do is look at y'er target and ask y'erself: Did I hit what I aimed at?

Am I meeting the requirements of Rule #1, or am I just ending up in the general vicinity?

@justin amateur:

As usual, @jbell stated the bull point," But the hard part is how you define consistency…". I would elucidate that point by saying it is not difficult to define consistency, the hard part is everybody has their own definition of consistency. Above all else the definition must be quantitative, i.e. there must be a metric.
Then, as others have noted in this thread and elsewhere the significant variables such as support system and environmental conditions must be specified quantitatively. An example, a definition of consistency might be impacting a 0.3mrad diameter circular target at 92m 50 shots out of fifty attempts shooting standing offhand with 0.0mph in both crosswind and downrange directions very time you try. Thus, if only did it 999 times out of a 1000 tries you would not be consistent by that definition. With goal and results quantified everyone has the right to express an opinion and opinions by always qualitative not quantitative. Some might say the results in the example is inhumanly great shooting, others run-of-the-mill and others I could do better even on a bad day at the range.

Let me share the NSGC, North Slovakian Gun Club, motto. "Quantify-shoot-Quantify-Opine" Opine because we all know it is much more fun expressing an opinion at the range or on-line than dry firing and doing the other things to improve marksmanship. And the louder the opinion is expressed if in person or the more profanity and incivility used if in person or online the better.

In closing I can only guarantee that the thread I initiated on standing offhand shooting or the thread I will initiate on supported shooting will demonstrate my "shit" markmanship, "shit" being properly metricated and otherwise be guaranteed 100% opinion free from me.

 

[rick137]

Forgot to state that with this post I am self-banning from any further posts except to my own threads for duration of the shooting season. Following the dictum "Facta, non Verba" or more prosaically, from the hot stove league to the hot range league.

Dos vedanya, tavarisch!

 

[justin amateur]

There's consistent, then there's days when it just can't happen.

I had one today.

50 yards, new brick of SK Pistol Special,
knew with the first round chambered it wasn't going to be good.
Hoping to determine if this new delivery of SK was worth the expense,
but my view through the scope indicated it would be a waste of ammo.
Totally unable to maintain point of aim. Usually not a problem.
This morning I couldn't find a comfortable position on the bench.
Crosshairs kept drifting off line, wasted minutes attempting to relax, didn't happen.
Packed up and called it a day. I know better.
When you can't maintain focus, do something else.
Ruger Single Six and some cheap cphp offhand at the pistol range.
Not a total waste of a morning.

 

[obx22]

There's consistent, then there's days when it just can't happen.

I had one today.

50 yards, new brick of SK Pistol Special,
knew with the first round chambered it wasn't going to be good.
Hoping to determine if this new delivery of SK was worth the expense,
but my view through the scope indicated it would be a waste of ammo.
Totally unable to maintain point of aim. Usually not a problem.
This morning I couldn't find a comfortable position on the bench.
Crosshairs kept drifting off line, wasted minutes attempting to relax, didn't happen.
Packed up and called it a day. I know better.
When you can't maintain focus, do something else.
Ruger Single Six and some cheap cphp offhand at the pistol range.
Not a total waste of a morning.

Sounds like my last range day.
Got outta the house late, and decided to spend the day handgunning as all my buds were out doing other things. 35 rounds in, I was starting to get a little ticked off. Things finally came together later, but nothing to brag about. Good therapy away from the troubles of the week, but I really only took away one lesson.
As I get older, the known things that keep a ok shooter from being a great shooter seem to have a stronger effect. Insufficient rest, caffeine, big meals, being less active, all add up to poor hits on range day. The bad habits displace muscle memory and training as the dominant factor, and scores reflect it.

 

[Sasquatch-148]

If you can get 1/4 " 5 shot groups at 50 yards you are good to go . That will show you the gun can do it , and you've found an Ammo your gun likes . The test is up to YOU the shooter

 

[b6graham]

If you can get 1/4 " 5 shot groups at 50 yards you are good to go . That will show you the gun can do it , and you've found an Ammo your gun likes . The test is up to YOU the shooter

50y is far from the only distance that matters for a lot of people shooting rimfire now and is not a tell tale indication of performance at 100, 200, 300y

 

[Sasquatch-148]

50y is far from the only distance that matters for a lot of people shooting rimfire now and is not a tell tale indication of performance at 100, 200, 300y

No shit , that's why I said the rest is up to him the shooter . But if he can't shoot good at 50 yards he can't expect to shoot good at 100 or beyond . I'm not stupid and your reply sounds smart ass like .

 

[b6graham]

No shit , that's why I said the rest is up to him the shooter . But if he can't shoot good at 50 yards he can't expect to shoot good at 100 or beyond . I'm not stupid and your reply sounds smart ass like .

re read what you said

"if it shoots 1/4" at 50y you're good to go"

tons of guns shoot at or near that and wont hit an 8" plate at 200y with that same ammo

i have some RWS ammo that shoots some of the smallest groups at 50y. it falls apart real fast past 100-150y compared to a 3/8"-1/2" lot of CX that shoots well out to 300y

 

[Sasquatch-148]

re read what you said

"if it shoots 1/4" at 50y you're good to go"

tons of guns shoot at or near that and wont hit an 8" plate at 200y with that same ammo

i have some RWS ammo that shoots some of the smallest groups at 50y. it falls apart real fast past 100-150y compared to a 3/8"-1/2" lot of CX that shoots well out to 300y

No, YOU fall apart at 200 yards

 

[b6graham]

No, YOU fall apart at 200 yards

documented group sizes in same conditions comparing various ammo shows otherwise. and I'm not even talking just my own data

but live in your fantasy that if ammo shoots good at 50y then it must shoot good at all distances

 

[Milo 2.5]

No, YOU fall apart at 200 yards

You should revisit that statement, if you picked a winner first try, good job. All I read from you is that you have not tested much ammo.

 

[jbell]

No, YOU fall apart at 200 yards

Rimfire accuracy is not even close to linear. Accurate ammo for your rifle at one distance is not always accurate at a different distance.

 

[Gustav Jimny]

If I might be so brave as to post......
My gear is a CZ455 SuperMatch on a Gunwarrior Gen6 chassis, 30 moa rail, Vortex Viper PST 3-15 FFP scope.
Yes, I am a Vortex fanboy.....
For me, accuracy, for 5 shots, is a single hole at 25m, ragged hole at 50m, 1/2" spread at 100m, and 5 hits on a 10" gong at 300m.
Obviously in no wind conditions.
I suck at reading wind.
Ammo brand that does this for me is SK Yellow, the one in the 50 box, NOT the 500 in a tin......
What works better for me, at 4 times the price, is Eley Tennex, so I am shooting with SK
What does not work are any of the HV stuff, and I have tried every single brand available here.

 

[021411]

This is from my zero session today with a new lot of ammo I’m trying. The left column was for sighting. I did 17 consecutive shots at the intersecting lines (50y). A little sloppy on the rear bag but I’m pretty satisfied and should be good to go for this weekend’s match. I don’t really zero with groups anymore.

 

[JBoomhauer]

View attachment 7849682
This is from my zero session today with a new lot of ammo I’m trying. The left column was for sighting. I did 17 consecutive shots at the intersecting lines (50y). A little sloppy on the rear bag but I’m pretty satisfied and should be good to go for this weekend’s match. I don’t really zero with groups anymore.

This is much better than wasting a box of 50 on a group. I only see 2 shots on the paper that might not have hit a 1/4” Kyl at 50.

 

[justin amateur]

The Grid, it's way more entertaining than groups, eh?

Groups are for adjusting y'er scope to current ammo and conditions.
Hitting what ya' aim at is the reason for rifles in the first place.

 

[021411]

The Grid, it's way more entertaining than groups, eh?

Groups are for adjusting y'er scope to current ammo and conditions.
Hitting what ya' aim at is the reason for rifles in the first place.

Thanks for The Grid post. Give credit where credit’s due.

 

[grauhanen]

Rimfire accuracy isn't linear. That is to say, when the distance is doubled results are more than doubled.

Having said that, for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?

 

[b6graham]

Rimfire accuracy isn't linear. That is to say, when the distance is doubled results are more than doubled.

Having said that, for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?

imperfections/variations in bullets. extreme spread.

things that dont show up at 50y

referring to extreme spread. same reason you can shoot a velocity ladder test with 1-200fps variation in a 6creed and put it into a 1/2" group at 100y

 

[D_TROS]

If you can maintain 1moa out to 75yards, 2moa to 150yards an 3moa past 200yards your setup will be more than capable of winning a match.

...

Best response here.

I love the super dooper tiny groups on your home range tho. MOA past 150 let alone 300 is phenomenal. Dont expect it to last. Save that lot of ammo for your next match...sadly that ammo runs out faster than taco bell out of my underware...lol

Ive had 2 hummer rimfires (one was ruined when I threaded the barrel) and 1 lot of Lapua ammo that could maybe get to 3" at 300. Saying you need that to be competitive at a NRL match is a flat out joke.

Makes me want to put on an ELR rimfire match... whos in?? ha. 100-500 yards.

ALways surprises me how many cant see the gap of BR accuracy on a home range to applicable accuracy for a NRL match in a new location. Its a whole new world.


Regards
DT

 

[grauhanen]

imperfections/variations in bullets. extreme spread.

things that dont show up at 50y

When ammo performs "exceptionally well at 50" -- i.e. with excellent accuracy -- it's more than doubtful that ammo with those characteristics can produce them -- unless, of course "exceptionally well" means something else entirely.

The question remains.

 

[b6graham]

When ammo performs "exceptionally well at 50" -- i.e. with excellent accuracy -- it's more than doubtful that ammo with those characteristics can produce them -- unless, of course "exceptionally well" means something else entirely.

The question remains.

Plenty of guys can get small groups at 50 with CCI SV for example

 

[jbell]

Save that lot of ammo for your next match...sadly that ammo runs out faster than taco bell out of my underware...lol


Regards
DT

now this is the best response here…

 

[Ericsl2]

I’m really new to this rimfire game. I keep seeing that ammo can be accurate and shoot small groups at 50 yards but not shoot well at 200-300 yards. If anyone has this happen, what were you chrono results? Is this due to SD and ES being high relative to the 22lr?
In centerfire, wind aside, a tight grouping round at 100 yards seems to shoot well at much longer distances if the sd/es remain in the single ish digits. Does this not apply to rimfire? Do the lead projectiles deform after chambering or firing or something?

 

[justin amateur]

If it produces tight results at 200 yards, it'll be amazing at 50 yards.
If it produces tight results at 50 yards, the results at 200 yards will have 9 times as much spread.
Except when wind conditions vary more, the further the projectile travels.
Example...first 50 yards wind is a quartering head wind at 3 to 4 mph, easy to compensate for.
Next 50 yards there's a gap in the berm vegetation that funnels the wind, increasing velocity,
changes direction to a full value right to left. The remaining hundred yards is all turbulence
with both vertical and horizontal swirls making that projectile dance. Do you blame the ammo,
or the varying conditions over the longer distance for worse results?

 

[grauhanen]

Plenty of guys can get small groups at 50 with CCI SV for example

The goal posts are being moved. Shooters can occasionally get random acts of accuracy with inexpensive ammo like CCI SV.

But the question involves ammo that performs exceptionally well at 50, not occasionally well. No one relies on getting consistently good results at 50 with CCI SV.

The question remains -- for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?

 

[b6graham]

The goal posts are being moved. Shooters can occasionally get random acts of accuracy with inexpensive ammo like CCI SV.

But the question involves ammo that performs exceptionally well at 50, not occasionally well. No one relies on getting consistently good results at 50 with CCI SV.

The question remains -- for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?

Extreme spread and BC and variation/inconsistencies

Scale 22 to centerfire at 4-5x. ES of 10 versus 40 at 800-1000 with a 308 and the group gets huge

Now add in BC variations bullet to bullet

 

[beetroot]

The goal posts are being moved. Shooters can occasionally get random acts of accuracy with inexpensive ammo like CCI SV.

But the question involves ammo that performs exceptionally well at 50, not occasionally well. No one relies on getting consistently good results at 50 with CCI SV.

The question remains -- for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?

It's fairly common for guys to get good accuracy at 50yards with CCI SV but have it fall to pieces after 150.
The reason for it is inconsitent velocity, at 50 yards you don't see big vertical spreads in your groups but at 200 you certainly do.

CCI SV in both my CZ and T1x will clean a KYL rack easily at 50 yards.
At 100 yards I can consistently get hits from the 2" targets down to 1" targets, on my KYL rack.
At 150yards I can consistently get hits on a 4"x 4" target but not on a 2" one.
At 200yards+ I can consistently hit a 8"x 8" target but not a 4"x 4" and if you look at the hits on the 8x8 target all of the spread is vertical.

Everyone who shoots long range 22lr know that ammo conistency is the driver on success at long rang, that's whay there are so many threads about 22 ELR shooting and what ammo people use.
Finding ammo that shoots well with low ES and shoots well in your rifle is the key.

 

[grauhanen]

Extreme spread and BC and variation/inconsistencies

It would seeem you want your cake and eat it too. It defies logic to say ammo with a wide ES and BC variation/inconsistencies can produce exceptional results at 50 yards.

Since .22LR accuracy is non-linear, it's necessary to understand the cause of that behavior. The basic cause of the non linear performance is center of gravity offsets in the bullets. It's not possible to make .22LR bullets with a perfect center of gravity.

As a result, bullets with greater Cg offsets will fly less true compared to those with lesser Cg offsets. It's not possible to anticipate or measure Cg of rounds that are shot. Some boxes or lots of ammo will have more Cg issues than others. Those will have more non linear performance. That is to say such ammo will perform increasingly poorly as distance increases.

A comparison of Lapua test facility ten shot group results at both 50 and 100 meters was done. What's especially relevant here is that the comparison is for the exact same rounds in groups recorded electronically at both distances. It was found that on average groups at 50 increased by a factor of 2.8 at 100. Of course some lots of ammo had a factor that was smaller than 2.8, while others increased by more than a factor of 2.8.

The cause of the difference in how much larger the ten shot groups increased between 50 and 100 is directly related to the differences in average center of gravity in the bullets themselves.

The fact is that if an ammo shoots exceptionally well at 50, it usually will very well further out. Flawed ammo doesn't shoot to high standards.

 

[grauhanen]

It's fairly common for guys to get good accuracy at 50yards with CCI SV but have it fall to pieces after 150.

The shortcoming above is the idea that occasional good accuracy is synonymous with exceptional results. No one shoots CCI SV with the expectation that it will shoot exceptionally well.

 

[b6graham]

The shortcoming above is the idea that occasional good accuracy is synonymous with exceptional results. No one shoots CCI SV with the expectation that it will shoot exceptionally well.

No one expects it. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen

By the same token no one shoots XAct with the expectation that it's gonna shoot like dogshit but the reality is sometimes it does from a particular gun

 

[BisSilent]

It would seeem you want your cake and eat it too. It defies logic to say ammo with a wide ES and BC variation/inconsistencies can produce exceptional results at 50 yards.

Since .22LR accuracy is non-linear, it's necessary to understand the cause of that behavior. The basic cause of the non linear performance is center of gravity offsets in the bullets. It's not possible to make .22LR bullets with a perfect center of gravity.

As a result, bullets with greater Cg offsets will fly less true compared to those with lesser Cg offsets. It's not possible to anticipate or measure Cg of rounds that are shot. Some boxes or lots of ammo will have more Cg issues than others. Those will have more non linear performance. That is to say such ammo will perform increasingly poorly as distance increases.

A comparison of Lapua test facility ten shot group results at both 50 and 100 meters was done. What's especially relevant here is that the comparison is for the exact same rounds in groups recorded electronically at both distances. It was found that on average groups at 50 increased by a factor of 2.8 at 100. Of course some lots of ammo had a factor that was smaller than 2.8, while others increased by more than a factor of 2.8.

The cause of the difference in how much larger the ten shot groups increased between 50 and 100 is directly related to the differences in average center of gravity in the bullets themselves.

The fact is that if an ammo shoots exceptionally well at 50, it usually will very well further out. Flawed ammo doesn't shoot to high standards.

Thanks Brian Litz

 

[Williwaw]

The basic cause of the non linear performance is center of gravity offsets in the bullets.

Could you point to the evidence that this can be taken as fact?

 

[justin amateur]

Can CCI SV produce tight groups at 50 yards? Sure, sometimes.
Is CCI SV capable of precision paper punching at 50 yards?
Not with the cartridges I've seen lately. Wonder how they'd do on the Grid?
Sounds like something that ought to be attempted.
Especially by a rifle that "likes" CCI SV. Any takers?

Instigator? Who? Me?

 

[justin amateur]

Out of balance bullets....hmmmm...got a link for that....here....

 

[beetroot]

The shortcoming above is the idea that occasional good accuracy is synonymous with exceptional results. No one shoots CCI SV with the expectation that it will shoot exceptionally well.

Not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse or it if just comes naturally to you.

Guys can shoot CCI SV into a 1/4" consitently with CCI SV at 25 yards (1MOA), yet by 200 yards the ammo will barely hold a 6" group and more like 8" (3-4MOA) with most of that being vertical spread due to the velocity ES.

For the purposes of NRL 22 (what this thread is about) that is execptional accuracy at close range but not acceptable at long range.

No i'm not going to go shoot a box at 200 and a grid at 25 to prove my claim, I've shot more than enough paper and steel to know it's true.
CCI SV was always the go to for me as it was excellent 70% of the time, good enough for a further 20%, the final 10% where it struggled I was happy to accept due to it being cheaper than even shitty bulk HV ammo.

There are some good posts in this thread that will help the OP on their NRL 22 journey, and there are some not so helpful ones.
I'm sure the OP can work out which is which.

 

[n2ishun]

Curious here.
Has any of you tried the Aguila 60 grain subsonic ammo ?
I honestly don't hold Aguila in very high regard....and the 60 grain is very hard to find and expensive when you do.
I used to run a nicely tricked out Ruger 77/22 with a Lilja barrel but the action is so worn out that it's basically a waste of ammo now to shoot it.
Of course Ruger discontinued it, one of the best rifles they ever made (IMHO).
Just bought a Bergara to replace it and have yet to shoot it.
I'm kinda handicapped to the point it's tough making it to the range these days and can't (for the time) shoot anything with any kick at all (don't want to break my decomposed spine).
Is it worth my time trying to obtain any of said 60 grain subsonic, or is it a waste of my time ?
Mind you I live in Kansas where it's always blowing at least 20-30 mph (or higher) which is why I think it might be worth a look.
Plays hell on the only rifle type I can shoot right now.....22's in wind, shyeah, right.
Am I wasting my time thinking about the ammo ?

Does anyone know any alternative heavy bullet 22lr that's worth looking for ?

 

[Badshot308]

Curious here.
Has any of you tried the Aguila 60 grain subsonic ammo ?
I honestly don't hold Aguila in very high regard....and the 60 grain is very hard to find and expensive when you do.
I used to run a nicely tricked out Ruger 77/22 with a Lilja barrel but the action is so worn out that it's basically a waste of ammo now to shoot it.
Of course Ruger discontinued it, one of the best rifles they ever made (IMHO).
Just bought a Bergara to replace it and have yet to shoot it.
I'm kinda handicapped to the point it's tough making it to the range these days and can't (for the time) shoot anything with any kick at all (don't want to break my decomposed spine).
Is it worth my time trying to obtain any of said 60 grain subsonic, or is it a waste of my time ?
Mind you I live in Kansas where it's always blowing at least 20-30 mph (or higher) which is why I think it might be worth a look.
Plays hell on the only rifle type I can shoot right now.....22's in wind, shyeah, right.
Am I wasting my time thinking about the ammo ?

Does anyone know any alternative heavy bullet 22lr that's worth looking for ?

Check out this thread: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/aguila-sss-60-grain-rounds.6994131/

 

[6.5SH]

The 60 gr really needs a 1:9 twist, Midsouth has it in stock on occasion as do most Aguila dealers.

RWS has a new 43 gr long range offering coming out later this year.

 

[n2ishun]

Thx guys

 

[grauhanen]

Could you point to the evidence that this can be taken as fact?

Sure, Ken. Obviously, I didn't develop this idea. But it's not a new one.

For more recent explanations of the role of Cg offset in .22LR non linear performance, you may recall posts by Landy (HuskerP7M8), a respected poster here and elsewhere. I refer to his posts with regard to the relationship between Cg offset and non linear pereformance. As you may know, Landy tests extensively in his own testing tunnel and conducts considerable statistical analysis of .22LR results, which inform his observations on the causes of .22LR non linear performance. I hope I haven't misrepresented anything he's said.

After MV variation, which is responsible for vertical spread and is inevitable in even the best match ammo, the next most important cause of non linear growth is Cg offset. Landy writes about it matter-of-factly, as though it's not a factor that's contentious in any way. Since velocity variation is not the only cause of shot dispersion, it explains why shot location at one distance doesn't always predict shot location further out. (Heel irregularity would be another, but we can restrict the discussion to bullets that are otherwise not flawed.)

For some elaboration, below are links to some of Landy's posts. He may well have other or more expansive posts, but these are the ones I could easily find. Of course, others may have also studied and remarked on Cg offset in .22LR.

See, for example post #17 https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/distance-vs-group-size-multiplier.525672/
More details are offered here in post #15 https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/a-question-about-lead-bullets.1060730/
See also post #13 https://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/Forum/index.php?threads/ammo-testing-at-25-yards.28412/
Landy made some relevant comments at the end of this thread in posts #110 and #114 https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/22-lr-bullet-sorting.4012117/page-6 (In this thread, the posts by poster "the Stowaway" are well worth reading.)

 

[grauhanen]

Not sure if you are being intentionally obtuse or it if just comes naturally to you.

Guys can shoot CCI SV into a 1/4" consitently with CCI SV at 25 yards (1MOA), yet by 200 yards the ammo will barely hold a 6" group and more like 8" (3-4MOA) with most of that being vertical spread due to the velocity ES.

For the purposes of NRL 22 (what this thread is about) that is execptional accuracy at close range but not acceptable at long range.

Whether my posts are indeed intentionally or naturally obtuse, is irrelevant.

The thread's about "what would you consider match accuracy". In response to the assertion that ammo that's accurate at one distance is not always accurate at another I asked a question. That question was "for what reasons would an ammo that shoots exceptionally well at 50 not continue to perform well at further distances?"

Saying that CCI SV can shoot 1 MOA at 25 yards is like saying every ammo shoots well at very short distances. Statements of the obvious aren't very helpful and themselves can appear slow obtuse.

 

[JBoomhauer]

The thread's about "If you were going to shoot PRS 22 or NRL or just plink with your new match rimfire, what would you consider match accuracy?".

Fixed it for you.

 

[b6graham]

"If you were going to shoot PRS 22 or NRL or just plink with your new match rimfire, what would you consider match accuracy?" .At say, 50, 100, 200 and 300 yards.

fixed it for you

 

[JBoomhauer]

fixed it for you

Thanks bud

 

[Milo 2.5]

Sure, Ken. Obviously, I didn't develop this idea. But it's not a new one.

For more recent explanations of the role of Cg offset in .22LR non linear performance, you may recall posts by Landy (HuskerP7M8), a respected poster here and elsewhere. I refer to his posts with regard to the relationship between Cg offset and non linear pereformance. As you may know, Landy tests extensively in his own testing tunnel and conducts considerable statistical analysis of .22LR results, which inform his observations on the causes of .22LR non linear performance. I hope I haven't misrepresented anything he's said.

After MV variation, which is responsible for vertical spread and is inevitable in even the best match ammo, the next most important cause of non linear growth is Cg offset. Landy writes about it matter-of-factly, as though it's not a factor that's contentious in any way. Since velocity variation is not the only cause of shot dispersion, it explains why shot location at one distance doesn't always predict shot location further out. (Heel irregularity would be another, but we can restrict the discussion to bullets that are otherwise not flawed.)

For some elaboration, below are links to some of Landy's posts. He may well have other or more expansive posts, but these are the ones I could easily find. Of course, others may have also studied and remarked on Cg offset in .22LR.

See, for example post #17 https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/distance-vs-group-size-multiplier.525672/
More details are offered here in post #15 https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/a-question-about-lead-bullets.1060730/
See also post #13 https://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/Forum/index.php?threads/ammo-testing-at-25-yards.28412/
Landy made some relevant comments at the end of this thread in posts #110 and #114 https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/22-lr-bullet-sorting.4012117/page-6 (In this thread, the posts by poster "the Stowaway" are well worth reading.)

As long as we are buying factory 22LR, none of this is in our control. You were in the factory testing thread, where a lot of assumptions were made with no one committing to facts.
I made a claim that expensive ammo, to me, Ely Match, Tenex, and Lapua Midas may have shot better at 50 than all my samples but crapped out at 300 in my Bergara B14R. Center X was lousy at both. One could say I did not have a grip on the conditions I was shooting, though I thought I did and was somewhat qualified to make the assumption.
So, I took a caliper to what ammo types I have left here.
CCI SV length: .992"
SK Standard Plus: .981"
The above ammos shoot relatively well
Lapua Center X: 972"
SK Rifle Match : .975"
These 2 did not shoot well. I gave all my sample ammo away so someone else could try some tests, cannot measure.
Could it be the reamer? .981" and longer shoot, somewhere below, NO?
Also, although they grouped the best, albeit smaller sample, were the groups up to standards of that quality of ammo(was it actually falling apart while still grouping fairly well up close? If you measure group size, and the bulk of the dispersion is vertical, even though by score, it is fantastic, the writing may have been on the wall.
Over half the fun of shooting these new breed 22's with 50 moa scope bases and killer scopes is doing shit that most are in awe of. Choosing to complicate the fuck out of it is up to the individual.
That said, I'll buy 15 buck a box ammo in bulk and live with the results, I do not do anything that I have to prove that I need 29 buck X-act. Last week we shot at a 12" circle at 600, we got hits, a success, NO, half the fun was in a sinlge mag, holding 1.4 left to .6 right and watching the circus. We killed it at 500 though, 100 yards was a barrier.

 

[grauhanen]

Seems many shooters here insist that CCI SV performs exceptionally well at 50 yards. They have a very low bar for accuracy.

JBoomhaurer, you changed my question more to your liking. In doing so you succeed in not having to address the reasonable question I did ask. Ducking it after a lot of answers have been given for your (and the OP's) question, suggests you would prefer some things should remain unexamined.

 

[b6graham]

Seems many shooters here insist that CCI SV performs exceptionally well at 50 yards. They have a very low bar for accuracy.

JBoomhaurer, you changed my question more to your liking. In doing so you succeed in not having to address the reasonable question I did ask. Ducking it after a lot of answers have been given for your (and the OP's) question, suggests you would prefer some things should remain unexamined.

he literally quoted the OP when he changed your wording

 

[021411]

This shit got way too deep for a NRL match lol. But good discussion..