What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: loki*hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What are you going to use the gun for? My son and I were with Travis during his Disruptive Environments Course just a couple weeks back.... he suggests a 50/200 yard zero.

Now, that advice is very dependent upon your weapon package and your ammo selection of course. You really need to decide what you are using your rifle for and what the typical engagement envelope will be and what types of effects you want on your target. Once you can answer that question then you can determine your zero. </div></div>

One thing for sure, when the bore is at any angle greater than horizontal there will only be two points where bullet path and line of sight will intersect, such as 32 meters and again at 300 meters. This means if the shooter wants to get good hits to the maximum effective range of the bullet before it begins to fly erratically and tumble, the shooter will need to know how to hastily re zero to what ever distance the target presents itself.

 

[loki*hunter]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

You may also want to determine if you are going to be changing altitudes a lot...the further out your zero is the more affects you will see when making dramatic altitude changes. Also, depending on your optics, your zero range along with your overall available adjustment may limit your ability to engage targets at longer ranges.

 

[darthceadus]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

I use my Gap-10 in a couple different ways. I have my own personal range so for fun I set up man size targets at multiple ranges out to 400 yards and put my aimpoint on and time my shot's . I haven't got my M-4 together yet so I'm working with what I got. Anyway with the aimpoint on I'm only going for a combat effective zone as Travis would call it. If i want to shoot for groups I put my Vortex 4-16 on. By the way the youtube video is Travis Haley-Adaptive Carbine: zero at distance. Its a cool video to watch because I've always zeroed for 100 and used holdover's. I'm typing on my phone at work so excuse my grammar and spelling .

 

[awonder]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

Our PD uses the 50 yard zero.

 

[DJAG1381]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jguerry81</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It's shocking how many new shooters do not understand their bullet will be low initially, then high, then low again ( with typica m4 zeros). </div></div>

I'm not shocked, there are folks who have really magnificent BDC's and don't have a clue about how they work or how to use them. These folks don't know MOA, BSZ, or anything about trajectory. Once zeroed at any distance they'd be hard pressed to get a good hit at any distance other than the distance zeroed. Thing is, they don't care about the stuff of this thread or marksmanship in general. They just want a cool rifle and scope that they believe is accurate. It's all good for these folks. After all, they are having some illiterate fun and as long as they are shooting safely why should I care if they are likely not to be learning anything. It's none of my business. </div></div>

lol, completely agree. I just didn't want to denigrate anyone.
Most people are worried about buying equipment well beyond their capabilities. But hell, that's how golf companies stay in business too!

 

[Dtarget]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

25/300

 

[BattleAxe]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

The bullet doesn't know what number is displayed on the turret. If you zero at 100 yrd, then dial in your 200, 300, or whatever dope you are now essentially zeroed at that distance. Therein lies the beauty of the 100 yard zero...you can dial in any zero you want without re-zeroing the rifle beyond dialing in your dope. As an example, take a rifle zeroed at 300 yds and one zeroed at 100 yds with the 300 yd dope dialed...both rifles will need the exact same hold to shoot to 500 yds.

Sure, for short range optics where dialing isn't an option then the longer zero makes sense but for a precision optic you get more flexibility with a 100 yd zero.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

I had "something to say", then I read some. I used to think I knew ALOT! The older I get, I've come to learn/realize, the LESS I know. When I read some things, on this site, I think I'm a dummy. I'll leave it to the "younger crowd". I always thought my AR was for 150 yds., and "closer", as a battle weapon. A product of where I live. Lot's of trees, and houses.No "open ground", to speak of. I really can't see past that, anyway, with out my glasses. I bought it, cause it's fun and cheap, to shoot. I only speak for myself.I'm basically an old retired fart. If I ever need to think of "battle ", I'll say my prayers, grab the AR, and probably be dead in 5 minutes.That is, if I can get past the wife...... She never let's me go any where. I will suggest that "we", should all be on the same side! The enemy, is "out there". Not here.Oh, sorry. I remember, now. I'm zeroed at 100 yds.

 

[LRRPF52]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

Did the OP say he's using an AR with iron sights, RDS, or magnified optic?

For a <span style="font-weight: bold">practical carbine </span>or rifle with <span style="font-weight: bold">RDS/irons </span>that is intended to be used for engaging targets of opportunity within the common distances in an <span style="font-style: italic">urbanized area</span>, a 200m zero is preferred by many for this main reason:

Targets of opportunity don't often stand out, form of an E-type, square off to you, and take a tactical pause so you can get in position, settle the gun, think about your holdover from a 25/300m BZO, and make that nice center of mass shot on a balmy range day.

You often get heads peeking out from behind real cover, maybe a hand on a weapon exposing itself unknowingly to your position, the top of a head as the target squats behind a wall...in short, not a full E-type sil saying, "Shoot me."

The 300m zero will screw you over hard in those scenarios, and don't think that you'll just dial or hold over quickly when the targets are shooting back from UKD. It can be done, and you should absolutely know your holds, but for within 250yds, you will be within a 4" trajectory using a <span style="font-weight: bold">50yd zero</span>, or roughly the average width of a vital zone on a human skull.

The 50yd/200yd zero also makes an awesome <span style="font-weight: bold">hunting PBZ </span>for the same reason. You're within the 10" vital zone on most medium game, and don't need to take your focus off the target to dial, or think about elevation holds, since even a full value 10mph wind will still not blow your projectile much more than 5" from POA at 250yds, so you can hold into the wind on the vital zone of the game and get a nice hit.

This 50/200yd zero is a great practical solution for a RDS-equipped carbine.

For a <span style="font-weight: bold">rifle or carbine </span>saddled with a <span style="font-weight: bold">magnified optic</span>, the reticle and intended engagement distances are going to drive a lot of your zero solution approach. I personally use a 100yd or 100m zero, due to elevation changes that I frequently encounter going from 5400ft ASL, up to 6400 or 6600 ASL, then down to sea level throughout the year with my precision guns. Density altitude is a real factor with those air pressure ranges, so it makes sense to zero at 100yds or meters, and run my dope off that zero.

For optics with specific BDC stadia like the ACOGs, GRSC, Short Dot, etc., they usually go off the 100m zero for center intersect of the crosshairs or primary aiming point, then you have what you have for graduated stadia lines calibrated at 200, 300, 400, 500, (and sometimes 600-800m) for a military-purposed optic.

If you're shooting leg matches with your <span style="font-weight: bold">CMP</span>, tricked A2-style match gun, with heavily worked M16A2 rear sight look-alike assembly, fine peep sight or lens, balanced sight housing, with finer MOA increments than an issue gun, floated barrel, weighted stock and guards, shooting jacket, sling, mitten, hand loads pushing 77gr Scenars or SMK's for the 200yd and 600yd lines, you will be intimately familiar with your elevation and windage knobs, and exactly where you POA/POI relationship is with that rifle, especially after your first shot.

I don't see a lot of people using the M16A2 elevation and windage wheel assemblies on their fighting guns, but if you do have a KISS carbine or AR15 with fixed A2 or A4 detachable sight housing/"carrying handle", yes, it's great to know your trajectory and elevation settings with that system, especially if you live west of the Mississippi and have a lot of open or mountainous terrain in your geographic area.

On one of my KISS guns with the A2 upper, I have those markings clearly paint-filled so I can use them at distance, but I probably will slip the scales so that I have a 200yd zero with that system too, as there is no way it will ever be used in a CMP match with a short barrel, telestock, M4 barrel, etc. Mine is just a retro project that I plan to shoot next to my modern carbines for comparison and fun.

For the Eotech hold-offs that were referenced, imagine only the head of that silhouette visible, then see how well the holds work, especially at 50 and 100yds-you're out of a good impact solution at 50, and off the head entirely at 100yds.

In Travis' video, he is again talking about a "combat effective zone" on a human silhouette, and the 25yd zero, which works if you have a torso to shoot at out to 400yds without need of holdover and perfect wind conditions, since the 300yd POI in his demo was in the neck of the 3D TGT, which is usually a miss on even a standing static human, since there is a bit of sway and natural head movement with humans that are standing and talking, let alone walking or running and ducking from your doom stick. Think about how the 200yd zero would work in the video, and when you would need to start holding at distance, compared to how the 25yd zero does on a head. It is a great video that brings the OP's question up, and a great discussion.

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[strat81]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

Anyway, back to the topic...

My 16" 5.56 AR carbine w/ Aimpoint ML3 is zeroed at 50 yards. I've been using this gun quite a bit for 3-gun and my local club's matches rarely exceed 75 yards. It has worked well. A 25 yard zero was causing too many hold over/under problems for me at various ranges on smaller targets.

I have an 18" 5.56 AR "SPR-style" rifle zeroed at 100 yards and was built with the intention of using it as a dedicated 3 gun rifle. It wears a Burris 1-4x Tac30 with a BDC reticle designed for a 100-yard zero. I have yet to use it in a match, so we'll see if it causes problems.

My ST-22 .22LR AR trainer has a Primary Arms M4-style red dot that is zeroed for 25 yards since that is the most common distance at which I use it.

 

[greydarrah]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

That's a great video (above). Rather than saying "this" is where you are supposed to zero your rifle, it shows how each zero will perform at varying ranges. Just pick the one that best suits your own needs (keeping in mind that different weight rounds will produce different results).

 

[LRRPF52]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

I wonder if in the full DVD, Travis demonstrates the 50/200yd zero on a 3D target, since he seems to prefer the 50/200yd zero.

The video uploaded to youtube is just one block excerpt on how a 25yd zero prints with his blaster on-target, when aiming COM.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

Or just get a Matech and have an on the fly BSZ appropriate for conditions present.

 

[R700Gunslinger]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

Great video and visual charts that were posted in this topic! Too bad these weren't posted from the beginning. Unfortunately I read through all of the arguing on page one and what a waist of time that was, I didn't get anything out of that.

 

[Unknown]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

300 yards: 300 Win Mag
200 yards: 303 British with iron sights (seems to be where they line up)
100 Yards: 260 Remington, 5.56 mm, 6.5 Grendels,
80 yards: Benelli M1 Super 90 with slugs

25 yards: 45 ACP, 9mm

50 ft: suppressed 22 pistol

 

[thewileyone]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

I believe that different zero's are used for different reasons. I use more than one and know which are zeroed for what range. If your scope has ballistic reticle in it, then a 100 yd zero is most commonly used. Many hunters use either a 200 or 300 yd zero.

 

[LRB45]

Re: What yard zero are you guy's using 100,200, or 300

From all the reading that I've done on here and other sites, I went with the 50/200 zero for my AR. Generally I don't shoot much past 150 to 200 yards anyways.