Whats happening to these primers?

[James87adams]

I just noticed my primers appear to be popping the middle of the primer indent backwards after firing. This happened on both rifles (ARs) I have fired in the last few outings.



The left 4x primers are rem 6 1/2, under 24.6 gr. Varget, lapua case, and 69 gr RMR hpbt. The 2x on the right are handloads with the 6 1/2 and cfe223. The two brass colored ones in the next pic are American eagle 55 gr factory.

Any idea what's going on?

Thanks!

 

[XikoPlavi]

I think I’m having a very similar issue with my new AR10. Is your an ar10??

I am also getting 1 in 10 getting a hole punched through the primer, but quite a bit are actually mushrooming instead of cratering. I’ve read where it happens with ar10 and sometimes a heavier BCG helps. Kind of bullshit IMO

In my case the ammo is factoy. My reloads im gonn seat the primer to the max and see what happens

 

[KZP]

I think I’m having a very similar issue with my new AR10. Is your an ar10??

I am also getting 1 in 10 getting a hole punched through the primer, but quite a bit are actually mushrooming instead of cratering. I’ve read where it happens with ar10 and sometimes a heavier BCG helps. Kind of bullshit IMO

In my case the ammo is factoy. My reloads im gonn seat the primer to the max and see what happens

Check out this thread

JP 308 "High Pressure" bolt & primer condition pics on a 6.5CM

Earlier last year I had horrendous primer piercing issues with my new 6.5 CM GAP-10, George's solution was to switch it from a DPMS BCG which uses a .080 firing pin to an Armalite BCG which uses a .068 firing pin and all the cratering & piercing issues went away. The .080" firing pin isn't...

www.snipershide.com

Although there may be other solutions. I use the HP bolt myself and have normal looking primer strikes.

 

[918v]

6 1/2 primers are for low pressure rounds that require SR primers, like the 22 Hornet. They are too soft for your application.

 

[MarshallDodge]

My bolt gun does the same thing. I just thought the anvil in the primer was compressing when the firing pin hit it, then it pops back which pushes the little bump in the middle of the cup.

 

[XikoPlavi]

My bolt gun does the same thing. I just thought the anvil in the primer was compressing when the firing pin hit it, then it pops back which pushes the little bump in the middle of the cup.

Gotta be a different issue though compared to gas. Are you absolutely sure you know that pin is original to the gun and not replaced?

 

[MJC]

6 1/2 primers are for low pressure rounds that require SR primers, like the 22 Hornet. They are too soft for your application.

This.

 

[James87adams]

6 1/2 primers are for low pressure rounds that require SR primers, like the 22 Hornet. They are too soft for your application.

Ah hell, that explains why I have so many of them on my shelf. I bought a ton of them 10 years ago from someone who got out of reloading.

Anybody want to trade me for some?

Thanks for the answers guys, I suppose I probably should have know that.

 

[James87adams]

The only other question is why is it happening (at a much smaller scale) to the factory ammo also?

 

[M4orturnate]

Ah hell, that explains why I have so many of them on my shelf. I bought a ton of them 10 years ago from someone who got out of reloading.

Anybody want to trade me for some?

Thanks for the answers guys, I suppose I probably should have know that.

You "can" use them just back the charge down. 24.6 is a fairly stout charge for a ar.

 

[James87adams]

You "can" use them just back the charge down. 24.6 is a fairly stout charge for a ar.

My Lyman manual says 26.0+ max for varget x 69 gr sierras, and my Speer is a little over that too. Iirc (not home right now) the base load is at 24 gr. I did some searching for what others have had success with via the 69 gr rmr bullets I am using (in gas guns), and most recommended 24.8-25.1 gr varget, a couple recommended higher. 24.6 worked best for me accuracy wise.

 

[James87adams]

Honestly though, I almost think it looks like my firing pin is striking too deep. The dimples seem deeper than they should be in both my loads and the factory stuff, but I really don't know for sure

 

[Milo 2.5]

Honestly though, I almost think it looks like my firing pin is striking too deep. The dimples seem deeper than they should be in both my loads and the factory stuff, but I really don't know for sure

By the looks, I agree, try a different firing pin. I am surprised the primers are not cratered, and again I am with you that you should not be overcharging the load.

 

[supercorndogs]

Scroll back up to post #4.

Warning:

• Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
• This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.

Remington Small Rifle Primers #6-1/2 Case of 5000 (5 Boxes of 1000)

Being a leader in both the firearms and ammunition industry Remington knows how important it is to have the highest quality ammunition available to make...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[James87adams]

Scroll back up to post #4.

Warning:

• Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
• This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.

Remington Small Rifle Primers #6-1/2 Case of 5000 (5 Boxes of 1000)

Being a leader in both the firearms and ammunition industry Remington knows how important it is to have the highest quality ammunition available to make...

www.midwayusa.com

Yea. Thank you.

Now I need to figure out why I'm getting the pop-back on factory ammo as well. Because I don't think factory American eagle is loading with these primers.

It looks like the same thing is happening, though it seems pretty clear my primers are indeed a lot softer.

 

[supercorndogs]

I don't see anything that would concern me on the primers from the factory ammo. The 6 1/2 primers almost ruptured, and it probably has nothing to do with the mark in the middle. I would expect the mark to be coming form the firing the pin. Pull it out and look at it under magnification, it would have a tiny nipple on the end of it, if its making the mark.

If not that, did you look at the primers before de-capping? Your de-capping pin can pop the middle back out like that too.

 

[viking78]

I had few puncture on Lapua small primer pocket cases, when i used CCI SR normal primers.
Switch them to SR Magnumn 450 model and i have had no problem since that.
Loads were under max of VV reloading manual.

 

[James87adams]

I don't see anything that would concern me on the primers from the factory ammo. The 6 1/2 primers almost ruptured, and it probably has nothing to do with the mark in the middle. I would expect the mark to be coming form the firing the pin. Pull it out and look at it under magnification, it would have a tiny nipple on the end of it, if its making the mark.

If not that, did you look at the primers before de-capping? Your de-capping pin can pop the middle back out like that too.

Yeah. I only deprimed them so I could get a better picture. I'll double check the firing pin, I thought it looked fine. It almost looks like the firing pin is striking the primer, and when the powder ignites it's popping the center of the primer backwards towards the firing pin. All of the pop-backs are just a little different, so I don't think it's just a mark left by the FP but maybe if the FP is striking too deep, it's stretching the primer, thinning it and enabling the pop. I'm really just spitballing here. I am pretty sure this is happening with both rifles I've been shooting, but i may as well buy another firing pin and see if that helps.

 

[James87adams]

I had few puncture on Lapua small primer pocket cases, when i used CCI SR normal primers.
Switch them to SR Magnumn 450 model and i have had no problem since that.
Loads were under max of VV reloading manual.

I'm going to get back on the hunt for some more primers. Hopefully I can find some more that aren't 10 cents each.

 

[James87adams]

I don't see anything that would concern me on the primers from the factory ammo. The 6 1/2 primers almost ruptured, and it probably has nothing to do with the mark in the middle. I would expect the mark to be coming form the firing the pin. Pull it out and look at it under magnification, it would have a tiny nipple on the end of it, if its making the mark.

If not that, did you look at the primers before de-capping? Your de-capping pin can pop the middle back out like that too.

Ah hell. Looks like you guys were right. My firing pin looks pretty trashed. Thanks.

 

[spife7980]

Ah hell. Looks like you guys were right. My firing pin looks pretty trashed. Thanks.

Yep, it’s fucked mate

 

[918v]

My Lyman manual says 26.0+ max for varget x 69 gr sierras, and my Speer is a little over that too. Iirc (not home right now) the base load is at 24 gr. I did some searching for what others have had success with via the 69 gr rmr bullets I am using (in gas guns), and most recommended 24.8-25.1 gr varget, a couple recommended higher. 24.6 worked best for me accuracy wise.

It all depends on the size of your chamber. The bigger the chamber the more powder you can stuff in the case. Many AR chambers are on the small side nowadays so the manufacturers can call them “match”.

 

[XikoPlavi]

Ah hell. Looks like you guys were right. My firing pin looks pretty trashed. Thanks.

So, you said you thought it was happening with a different rifle also. Is that true? If so is it b/c you’ve been using these 6-1/2s on both rifles and the pin on both are trashed?

 

[bax]

Ah hell. Looks like you guys were right. My firing pin looks pretty trashed. Thanks.

We have a winnah! Any idea how it got that way?

 

[918v]

We have a winnah! Any idea how it got that way?

Maybe cuz he was using the wrong primer?

 

[James87adams]

We have a winnah! Any idea how it got that way?

I pierced a couple primers a couple weeks back with a slightly hotter cfe223 load. Wonder if the pierced primers could etch out the end of the firing pin? Other than that, no idea.

 

[James87adams]

So, you said you thought it was happening with a different rifle also. Is that true? If so is it b/c you’ve been using these 6-1/2s on both rifles and the pin on both are trashed?

No idea. I'll have to check the other rifle this week to find out.

 

[James87adams]

Nope. Both firing pins are trashed.

 

[XikoPlavi]

Nope. Both firing pins are trashed.

Well, at least it’s an easy fix. Wish my issue was so simple

 

[spife7980]

I pierced a couple primers a couple weeks back with a slightly hotter cfe223 load. Wonder if the pierced primers could etch out the end of the firing pin? Other than that, no idea.

You don’t need another idea, that’s it

 

[Near miss]

Nope. Both firing pins are trashed.

How many hot rounds did you have to shoot to get them to that condition?

 

[redbullitt]

Those 6.5 primers do really well for cat sneeze 300 whisper rounds... they have produced some very good results in quite a few rifles and pistols for me. I was definitely happy to find a use for them lol.

Lighter or subsonic 357 and 38 loads seem to do well with them too fwiw.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Scroll back up to post #4.

Warning:

• Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges.
• This 6-1/2 Small Rifle primer is primarily designed for use in the 22 Hornet.

Remington Small Rifle Primers #6-1/2 Case of 5000 (5 Boxes of 1000)

Being a leader in both the firearms and ammunition industry Remington knows how important it is to have the highest quality ammunition available to make...

www.midwayusa.com

Question for the board...
What primer did Remington use for manufacturing it's "high pressure" cartridges like .222, .222 Mag, 223, ect prior to the introduction of the 7 1/2 BR along with the .17 Remington in the early 70's?

 

[roostercogburn98]

Question for the board...
What primer did Remington use for manufacturing it's "high pressure" cartridges like .222, .222 Mag, 223, ect prior to the introduction of the 7 1/2 BR along with the .17 Remington in the early 70's?

Maybe a 9-1/2 or a version of the Win116?

Those 6-1/2s make great 30 carbine primers. Find someone who reloads that close and you might be able to work a trade OP

 

[Lange Carabine]

Maybe a 9-1/2 or a version of the Win116?

Those 6-1/2s make great 30 carbine primers. Find someone who reloads that close and you might be able to work a trade OP

No clue, but from what I've read the 7 1/2 br was specifically designed to withstand the higher pressures the .17 Rem developed.

I've used 6 1/2 for .30 carbine, .38 s&w and .38 spl/.357 mag.
Havent loader either in years though, but still have a couple k on hand.
I would think they'd work fine for 9mm Luger and the likes as well.

 

[roostercogburn98]

No clue, but from what I've read the 7 1/2 br was specifically designed to withstand the higher pressures the .17 Rem developed.

I've used 6 1/2 for .30 carbine, .38 s&w and .38 spl/.357 mag.
Havent loader either in years though, but still have a couple k on hand.
I would think they'd work fine for 9mm Luger and the likes as well.

Heard of guys using them for 9mm. I have a 9mm largo carbine, wonder if they would work for that? I use them solely in 30 carbine reloading in my bolt action

 

[Lange Carabine]

Heard of guys using them for 9mm. I have a 9mm largo carbine, wonder if they would work for that? I use them solely in 30 carbine reloading in my bolt action

They should be fine for the Largo.
Seems the general rule of thumb is they are ok for cartridges under 45k p.s.i..