Wanted to hear everyone thoughts and see some pics of what's the best designed true fighting knife. Just looking to add true fighting designed blade to the collection
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Sidearms & Scatterguns Whats the best designed true fighting knife
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pacific by chris reeve.
Are you looking for the best straight fighting knife, or can it also be a "survival" type knife? I've been liking the grayman knives recently but they are more survival than "pure" fighting
Are you looking for the best straight fighting knife, or can it also be a "survival" type knife? I've been liking the grayman knives recently but they are more survival than "pure" fighting
The Fairbairn Sykes knife is recognized as the true purpose built fighting knife that all other modern day "fighting" knives have evolved from in one way or another. The thing that tends to trip people up when having these discusions is that they tend to combine the idea of a fighting knife and a utility knife and try to call it a fighting knife. A fighting knife is designed for one thing, killing the other guy and as such make poor utility/everyday knives due to their design. Conversly, utility/survival knives tend to make medicore fighting knives in the true sense of the term fighting knife.
The Fairbairn Sykes Fighting Knives - Introduction
The Fairbairn Sykes Fighting Knives - Introduction
The concept of cutting an opponent into submission, or death, is a bit of a misnomer. Blood loss ends fights and lives. Puncture wounds from a knife are far more threatening to life that cut. Granted one could cut an artery, but they are small targets. The fairbairn Sykes would be good, but a longer than necessary. A slender blade 4-6" would be sufficient.
TC
TC
Titanium sporks, baby, deadly on cardboard and only $8.99, less shipping and handling. Whatta bargain!
ThinkGeek :: Titanium Spork
ThinkGeek :: Titanium Spork
" true fighting" ? :the funny thing carried from the Scots inside the sock_ (sgian dub, or whatever they call it)_
"fighting"," collecting" and admiring ?: Fairbairn_
"fighting"," collecting" and admiring ?: Fairbairn_
Valid points but you have to take other things into consideration, like thick or winter clothing as well as being able to cut an opponent if he grasps the top of the blade. Cutting and or slashing by itself is solely an incapacitation technique that should be followed up with a penetrating move, penetrating or stabbing in vital areas generally is far more effective than slashing, unless an artery is hit. In all cases be it a slash or a penetrating movement, unlike the movies, the bad guy doesn't die instantly without making any sound, especially the ever famous hollywood throat cutting technique. Col. Applegate's book explains the approach he and Fairbairn took in developing not only a knife for killing but the fighting style in which it was meant to be employed and the reason why.
From Rex Applegate's (Rex Applegate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) "kill or get killed" and the use of the FS knife. (http://www.resist.com/Kill_or_Get_Killed_Pt1.pdf )
THE FIGHTING KNIFE
This stiletto type weapon is ideal for close-in fighting. It can be used both for cutting and thrusting, and it is easy to maneuver, because of its design and balance. This last feature is very important. The handle is similar to thmt of a fencing foil, so the knife can be used for cutting and thrusting in any direction without a change in the grip. The weight is toward the hilt. The blade is about six inches long, is double-edged and tapers to a point. This length blade is ideal for balance, is good for both the cut and the thrust, and is long enough to penetrate heavy clothing without losing its effectiveness. Its width, at its widest part near the guard, usually is not over one inch. It either can be hollow ground or can taper evenly toward both edges, from the strengthening ridge which runs down the center of the blade to the point of the knife.
The handle is round or oval in shape, its largest diameter is toward the center, and it tapers off toward the guard as well as at the butt. The over-all weight is approximately ten ounces. The handle, in addition to being rounded, is checkered.
Such a knife, with balance toward the handle, is adapted more easily to maneuverability, is more easily passed from hand to hand, and, with more weight in the hnndle, affords a better grip for passing, thrusting and slashing. Its very design makes it a true fighting knife, combining with its double- edge both cutting and slashing qualities. The double edge is also useful in preventing an opponent from wresting it from the hand of the user. The opponent cannot grasp its blade, in defense, without receiving a severe cut.
The proper grip on the handle of a knife of this type is as follows: The knife lies diagonally across the outstretched palm of tile hand. The small part of the handle next to the cross guard is grasped by the thumb and forefinger. The middle finger lies over the handle at the point where its largest diameter occurs. With the knife held in this fashion, it is very easy to maneuver it in all directions. The direction of the blade can be controllable by a combination movement of the fore and middle fingers, plus a turning of the wrist. When the palm is up it is possible (holding knife in the right hand) to slash to the right. When the palm is turned down, it is possible to slash to the left. The thrust can be executed from either the palm-up or palm-down position, At the time of contact, in the thrust or the slash, the knife is grasped tightly by all fingers. The initial controlling grip of the fore and middle fingers has not changed and the blade becomes a mere continuation of the arm.
Such knife manipulation is fairly simple. Skill can be acquired after a few hours practice, but only if the handle is generally constructed along the lines described above, The handle described here is round. However, a handle of similar size in oval shape works equally well.
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I've done a little playing around with an Emerson Karambit. One of my aikido instructors is also 3rd degree in arnis, so we occasionally change it up to sticks and knives. I can honestly say someone who knows what they're doing with a karambit is one of the most intimidating things I've ever seen. I'm sure someone will disagree though.
The general rules of a knife fight as I've been informed are...
-Expect to get cut up
-Use a fixed blade, you can't fumble trying to get one open
-Use a blade long enough to get through clothing and deep enough to cause problems for the opponent
-DO NOT lose your knife and have it used against you
-If at all possible, bring a gun to the knife fight
I look at knives as a last resort, not a viable option. I carry a folder for everyday tasks, and when I'm at work I carry a fixed blade that serves as my last ditch and weapon retention options.
-Expect to get cut up
-Use a fixed blade, you can't fumble trying to get one open
-Use a blade long enough to get through clothing and deep enough to cause problems for the opponent
-DO NOT lose your knife and have it used against you
-If at all possible, bring a gun to the knife fight
I look at knives as a last resort, not a viable option. I carry a folder for everyday tasks, and when I'm at work I carry a fixed blade that serves as my last ditch and weapon retention options.
Right there. While I have a few S-F knives they are good as far as a stealth attack on an opponenet, but if it were a fight, you'd better be damn good.
similar to the S-F's, but of different origin are the V-42 of the 1st Special Services Force. A stabber, not a stabber/slasher/survival type.
The Randall #1 and #14 and #16 IMO, are as good as it gets in those departments. Plus, they also have weight to "chop" in a fight. Another incapacitating move as in slashing, but effective if/when it can render a limb useless. The drawback to having one of these is they are much heavier than the S-F. Stronger too, though.
In the end it comes down to what kind of fighting you think you'll end up getting into. And what you'll do with a knife when not using it. Or, can't use it because it doesn't meet the function.
An historic note here: Fairbain's use of his knife is more to subdue a sentry in silent fashion, not to slash the throat with your hand over the victims mouth. But rather to stab into the lower unprotected medula (lower brain case/upper spine) where it would immediately incapacitate the victim. Slashing the jugular/carotid artery almost never fails to end an opponents life. It certainly ends his chance to put up resistance. A coup-de-grace is to stab into the lower back finding the artery/vein that runs to/from the kidneys. High volume vessels that mean high loss when opened up. If you by chance, trip on your own ass into the fight, there's always one last shot at the femoral artery.
The point to any of this is you need a tough knife with a sharp, streamlined body. While I like the heavier style of the Randall, and similar knives overall, they can be a bit too blunt to deeply penetrate if not run cleanly past bone and ligament. The S-F will have better penetration, but slightly weaker.
In the number of training forays I've taken part in one thing is amply evident to me. You need to know your knife and what style of fighting to use with it. I've seen guys with little folders (intended as quick-strike attackers) tear people up in a fight. Not knowing how to fight with a knife or against it, is what will get you killed. The perfect knife has not been invented, but serious training will compensate a lot for what kind of knife you don't have.
Your historical facts are a little twisted up. Please refer to the link , specifically page 80-82 and you will see that hand over mouth, carotid slash AND kidney stab are advocated in the book that Col Applegate wrote with Fairbairn.
http://www.resist.com/Kill_or_Get_Killed_Pt1.pdf
Also, if you click on "Derivative knives" in this link, you will see the other knives that have evolved from the FS to include the V-42 and the Randall among quite a few others.
The Fairbairn Sykes Fighting Knives - Introduction
I see the topic mainly revolving around the Fairbain-Sykes type blades, the mention of the V-42, and I'll add Gerber's own stiletto contribution during the Vietnam War to this topic.
Don't discount the Ka-Bar though, or any other single bladed knife(i.e. Bowie).
Don't discount the Ka-Bar though, or any other single bladed knife(i.e. Bowie).
For starters right back, try reading "The Devils Brigade" by Robert Aldeman and Col. George Walton. You will find there was as more input from the Italian Mafia than there was Fairbain-Sykes for the V42. Not that there wasn't influence, the British wanted American Commandos to be able to do the Norway operations. When those cancelled, The Devils Brigade went to Italy and France. But, with those origins, the S-F knife or similar was strongly suggested as standard equipment.
Also, I don't know where the confusion lies, but if you read the history of Randall knives, you will see no input from S-F. Randall created his knives on his own and the lines show clearly they are from a different lineage and line of thinking in the creation. Meaning, Randalls are NOT derivatives of the S-F knives. Later in years they may come to be more similar, but in no way was Randall formed or inspired by the S-F knife types.
While Sykes and Fairbain are due credit for their work in this area, they are certainly not the foremost authority on knifemaking and fighting use of them throughout the world. I have the publication you posted and again, while I acknowledge great strides in what they teach, they didn't come up with it all themselves. What they taught was more of a compilation. An effective one at that, because you don't see them singing their own praises all the time like some other authors. They merely meant to compile into a useful training tool the information needed. And of course a great tool to do it with.
But ask yourself this, which came first, the FS or the V42?
There is no confusion, I'm well aware of the history, I've been to the Randall shop at least 3 times and own several of them. The "derivative" term I used is what the tool bar button on the site I provided as a reference calls the knives that have in one way shape or form "evolved" or been influenced by the FS design.
I don't think I've said that they did, in fact I have to ask you, did you bother to read anything on the link to the FS site I provided? In the "introduction" section there is a section that names all of the other people involved with establishing and refining the fighting style and it's proliferation to other units. I happen to be friends with a well known knife maker by the name of Bill Harsey, who incidentally was friends with Col Applegate and the Applegate family and is very familiar with the historical side of this knife as well as building it. I cannot claim to know or be able to recite the rote history and evolution of the knife but he is very capable of doing it. If you wish to pick his brain,I can put you in contact with him, he is a fountain of information and shares it willingly. If by chance you or anyone else are interested in owning a knife of this design but don't want to invest in an original classic version or buy one of the cheap china reproductions there is one knife maker who is currently making one that I've actually had the chance to handle and is historically accurate. It's made by knife maker Les George, a former EOD Marine and also a friend of mine. Even if you don't want one of this design ,he makes other designs and folders that are worth checking out.
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Papa Zero Three,
Sorry for the long delay, but I don't get internet where I work. So, I'm offline for a few days at a time each week.
The F-S knife/prototype came first. But, at the same time as it was being developed so did the V42. It was one of the first orders of business according to the book. Sort of like a token, "We gotta have our own special one" thing. Col. Frederick saw to it, that they had that early on, as he felt it was going to be a huge part of their success. The FSSF began training operations in July of 1942. Which meant the initial idea for a Scandinavian "re-taking" no doubt started as early as when Norway was being invaded in 1940. Again, though, at the same time, Frederick knew he had American resources from which to draw. In the book, "The Devils Brigade" it is stated Frederick drew his ideas from no less than known Italian Mafia "experts".
So, maybe that issue is a 50/50, but the fact still remains the knives are lighter and more attuned to a sneak attack and not so much else, as they are light.
Which leads us to the Randalls. I know the publication says, "derivatives". In order for it to be a "derivative" the idea or style must have originated with the S-F. It didn't. The #2 is the only one that comes close in that it has a double edge the full length of the blade. But, note how much thicker the blade is compared to an S-F or a V42. Much heavier. Randall still holds that a knife is a multipurpose tool and builds them heavy enough to accomplish that task. Therefore it is not a derivative. But for the purpose of this discussion, I think it's good that the OP read this and decide what he may want/need. For a killing knife only the S-F/V42 are exceptional choices. For an all around work tool and fighting, the Randall gets it done better. I think. But they are a load to pack.
There are also a number of good 3 1/2" to 4" folding blades specifically made for the slash/slash stab-getaway that are very tough. They'll keep a good edge for light duty cutting, but not chopping stuff. Neither will the S-F or V42 type knife. But for concealable they work well. It was mentioned the monkey motion of opening them is a pain. Yes, but train for it, and you can get it done. I've had to open mine on three occasions to end a problem that was about to arise. Practice, practice, practice. That is NOT a place to come in second in a competition. That one is a Gerber Laredo. But, I have seen stouter built with excellent steel if you want to spend more money.
Regarding Bill Harsey, I do know who he is. He designed the Green Beret Knife, which would also be an excellent choice. For what ever reason, those in charge of the money gave the production rights to Chris Reeve. I think they are an excellent choice but I did also hear of some foreign manufacture (cheapness). And the big one for me was the U.S. Army deciding that after they spent that much money training someone, they weren't going to issue him a 'lifetime' knife. Ya gotta luv beancounters in the Pentagon....something might cut into their 'retirement'.
While doing some searching one day I wanted to see if I could get his contact number. I did, we talked briefly. I told him as far as I was concerned the Harsey Hunter could, with a few minor changes, be the preeminent tactical knife. At which point he explained to me about the Green Beret knife. The conversation ended abrubtly, if not a little rudely. He seemed preoccupied with something else and had 'more important' things to do than answer my questions. I am glad he remains a friend of yours. I must have caught him on a bad day.
Sorry for the long delay, but I don't get internet where I work. So, I'm offline for a few days at a time each week.
The F-S knife/prototype came first. But, at the same time as it was being developed so did the V42. It was one of the first orders of business according to the book. Sort of like a token, "We gotta have our own special one" thing. Col. Frederick saw to it, that they had that early on, as he felt it was going to be a huge part of their success. The FSSF began training operations in July of 1942. Which meant the initial idea for a Scandinavian "re-taking" no doubt started as early as when Norway was being invaded in 1940. Again, though, at the same time, Frederick knew he had American resources from which to draw. In the book, "The Devils Brigade" it is stated Frederick drew his ideas from no less than known Italian Mafia "experts".
So, maybe that issue is a 50/50, but the fact still remains the knives are lighter and more attuned to a sneak attack and not so much else, as they are light.
Which leads us to the Randalls. I know the publication says, "derivatives". In order for it to be a "derivative" the idea or style must have originated with the S-F. It didn't. The #2 is the only one that comes close in that it has a double edge the full length of the blade. But, note how much thicker the blade is compared to an S-F or a V42. Much heavier. Randall still holds that a knife is a multipurpose tool and builds them heavy enough to accomplish that task. Therefore it is not a derivative. But for the purpose of this discussion, I think it's good that the OP read this and decide what he may want/need. For a killing knife only the S-F/V42 are exceptional choices. For an all around work tool and fighting, the Randall gets it done better. I think. But they are a load to pack.
There are also a number of good 3 1/2" to 4" folding blades specifically made for the slash/slash stab-getaway that are very tough. They'll keep a good edge for light duty cutting, but not chopping stuff. Neither will the S-F or V42 type knife. But for concealable they work well. It was mentioned the monkey motion of opening them is a pain. Yes, but train for it, and you can get it done. I've had to open mine on three occasions to end a problem that was about to arise. Practice, practice, practice. That is NOT a place to come in second in a competition. That one is a Gerber Laredo. But, I have seen stouter built with excellent steel if you want to spend more money.
Regarding Bill Harsey, I do know who he is. He designed the Green Beret Knife, which would also be an excellent choice. For what ever reason, those in charge of the money gave the production rights to Chris Reeve. I think they are an excellent choice but I did also hear of some foreign manufacture (cheapness). And the big one for me was the U.S. Army deciding that after they spent that much money training someone, they weren't going to issue him a 'lifetime' knife. Ya gotta luv beancounters in the Pentagon....something might cut into their 'retirement'.
While doing some searching one day I wanted to see if I could get his contact number. I did, we talked briefly. I told him as far as I was concerned the Harsey Hunter could, with a few minor changes, be the preeminent tactical knife. At which point he explained to me about the Green Beret knife. The conversation ended abrubtly, if not a little rudely. He seemed preoccupied with something else and had 'more important' things to do than answer my questions. I am glad he remains a friend of yours. I must have caught him on a bad day.
Don't get wrapped around the "derivative" word, that is what the author of that webpage chose to use, he probably could have used a different word but I understand what he is saying and his intent and why he listed the knives that he did. Subsequently, I have carried one of the knives listed on the "derivative" list with me, specifically the Gerber Mk II, on several deployments overseas in the box as you can see in the attached picture below.
I don't know anyone in my line of work who doesn't carry both a fixed and a folding knife on them. Knives are tools, use the right tool for the job is the way I approach it.
Regarding Bill Harsey, I do know who he is. He designed the Green Beret Knife, which would also be an excellent choice. For what ever reason, those in charge of the money gave the production rights to Chris Reeve. I think they are an excellent choice but I did also hear of some foreign manufacture (cheapness). And the big one for me was the U.S. Army deciding that after they spent that much money training someone, they weren't going to issue him a 'lifetime' knife. Ya gotta luv beancounters in the Pentagon....something might cut into their 'retirement'.
Again, I don't know where you are getting your information but the above quote is not correct. Bill H. and Chris Reeve are very good friends and have collaborated on many projects together. When Bill was commissioned to produce the Green Beret knife it was initially a bit different from what is issued today. Those design tweaks were at the end users request. Upon winning the selection for the knife, Bill had/has Chris handle the production side of things as thats what Chris does and is good at and is set up to do,it had nothing to do with those in charge of the money assigning production to Chris. Also, none of the issued knives are of Foreign manufacture, I have no idea where you got that info but it is 100% wrong, Chris makes all the knives here in the US. I also don't know where you got the idea that it isn't a lifetime knife. Each knife is serial numbered and signed for by the person it is issued to, it is forever the property of that person. The school house (actually the SF museum gift shop historian) keeps the actual record book with all the serial numbers and who they were issued to, every knife can be traced back to a name. I know this because I am the owner of Yarborough SF-0003, which is the line of knives that are reserved for those that were SF qualified before they started issuing knives to the graduates. So there is actually a number range of knives that covers a specific graduating class and a number range that covers all the old guys like myself that wanted a knife after they started issuing them. These knives will have the letters SF after Yarborough with the serial number where as the new school house graduate line just says Yarborough and the serial number.
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P03,
Thank your for clarifying the Bill H. Cris Reeve status. I was under the impression that while they knew each other, and were friends, this was a choice above their heads. The foreign manufacture was also hearsay, and I heard it here on the Hide. I must've missed the post clarifying what happened with that. No doubt when something like that comes along, someones going to copy it.
And hats off to you for earning the right to get yours.
My understanding now too, is they no longer issue them to graduates. Graduates now have to buy them. I got that from a number of sources, but also directly from a friend of mine, who is a retired Delta operator. We met in SFUWO back in '83. As I understand it as well, I am not elidgible to purchase the Yarborough version of that knife because I only served in a Ranger BN, not SF. Therefore, I did not attend "Q" course. I could certainly buy an unmarked one on the open market. A genuine one would, I think, be worth the money.
As far as Randalls and the word derivative, I could live with the word being used mistakenly in common speech. But, that is a publication, and that should be corrected. Randalls are not derivatives of S-F/Applegate lineage knives. Saying so in print causes confusion. As you mentioned, us "old" guys go back far enough to know the difference. Many new guys do not. It is a common mistake that I correct constantly. It's just something that I feel needs to remain clear. That Randall came up with his own idea of the ultimate knife. And, it's first job was utility, not lethality. But, they have morphed into that very well.
As far as folders and people who carry both, I agree it is a wise idea. Getting a quality folder is important. One has to decide how much they want to use each one and if one becomes the primary and the other secondary, it may mean a different choice for one or the other. But, that brings up a good point for the OP. Look at getting complimentary knives, folder and fixed.
Thank your for clarifying the Bill H. Cris Reeve status. I was under the impression that while they knew each other, and were friends, this was a choice above their heads. The foreign manufacture was also hearsay, and I heard it here on the Hide. I must've missed the post clarifying what happened with that. No doubt when something like that comes along, someones going to copy it.
And hats off to you for earning the right to get yours.
My understanding now too, is they no longer issue them to graduates. Graduates now have to buy them. I got that from a number of sources, but also directly from a friend of mine, who is a retired Delta operator. We met in SFUWO back in '83. As I understand it as well, I am not elidgible to purchase the Yarborough version of that knife because I only served in a Ranger BN, not SF. Therefore, I did not attend "Q" course. I could certainly buy an unmarked one on the open market. A genuine one would, I think, be worth the money.
As far as Randalls and the word derivative, I could live with the word being used mistakenly in common speech. But, that is a publication, and that should be corrected. Randalls are not derivatives of S-F/Applegate lineage knives. Saying so in print causes confusion. As you mentioned, us "old" guys go back far enough to know the difference. Many new guys do not. It is a common mistake that I correct constantly. It's just something that I feel needs to remain clear. That Randall came up with his own idea of the ultimate knife. And, it's first job was utility, not lethality. But, they have morphed into that very well.
As far as folders and people who carry both, I agree it is a wise idea. Getting a quality folder is important. One has to decide how much they want to use each one and if one becomes the primary and the other secondary, it may mean a different choice for one or the other. But, that brings up a good point for the OP. Look at getting complimentary knives, folder and fixed.
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Copies of known knife makers knives being made overseas is something that many of the well known makers and companies are having to fight and they are getting really good at it. However, the knives issued to grads are made by Chris in the USA.
They still issue them to new graduates. Those who graduated before they started the tradition of issuing them have to purchase them after they submit all their paperwork showing they are a graduate of the Q course.
That is correct, it is only issued to those who have graduated the Q course and have been awarded the Special Forces tab. The commercial version is available to the general public but has no Yarborough marking with serial number.
with all his known handling drawbacks, if I could afford it, my 1st choice would be the old WWI U.S.1918 trench knife... and more tricky gizmos I see, more I like it_
To choose a knife for a collection that represents a "true fighting knife" design encompasses too broad a landscape. The karambit is not employed in the same manner as the Bowie which is not ideally employed in the same manner as a S-F. Technique dictates the design or vice versa. As a dagger the SF or Gerber MKII are representative and are reasonably priced. The early MKIIs were tougher than such a slender blade should be and held an edge very well. A guy that seemed to be a very knowledgeable collector told me the material was L6.
The fighting Bowie is an evolution. It started as a large butcher knife or camp knife and evolved into a shorter, lighter fighter. The Neil Young, Pacific and Special Forces by Chris Reeve are examples of this evolution. The Randall1-7, 14 and 16 are other good examples. The Randall 1 has been knocked off by a number of companies which would allow you to have an example of the design at reduced cost. That said, the original is best and a good investment.
My favorite Bowie design is the 7" Panama Fighter by Sean McWilliams. McWilliams was out of the knife business for a fair number of years and his knives had gotten pretty expensive. Recently he became active again and you can see his work at Sean McWilliams - Artistic Ironworks. They are still expensive but worth every cent.
The fighting Bowie is an evolution. It started as a large butcher knife or camp knife and evolved into a shorter, lighter fighter. The Neil Young, Pacific and Special Forces by Chris Reeve are examples of this evolution. The Randall1-7, 14 and 16 are other good examples. The Randall 1 has been knocked off by a number of companies which would allow you to have an example of the design at reduced cost. That said, the original is best and a good investment.
My favorite Bowie design is the 7" Panama Fighter by Sean McWilliams. McWilliams was out of the knife business for a fair number of years and his knives had gotten pretty expensive. Recently he became active again and you can see his work at Sean McWilliams - Artistic Ironworks. They are still expensive but worth every cent.
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I am selling a variety of Randalls if anyone is interested.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-randall-made-knives-sale-almost-all-new.html
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-randall-made-knives-sale-almost-all-new.html
I don't have .10% of the experience that some on this thread have, but I'd like to add something.
I like the Hogue EXF-01. I opted to the 5.5 inch model as opposed to the 7".
Its made of A2 tool steel, which is a good choice for a fighter. It isn't stainless, obviously. I think CRK runs S35VN in their fighting blades these days, so if you're looking for a wet(ter) weather blade, the CRK, for no other reason than the steel choice, might suite you better. I like the idea of a stainless fixed blade, but I'm a little more apt to go with a carbon or tool steel for added toughness. I also live in AZ, so there is pretty much no chance for rust unless I neglect the hell out of the blade.
Some of the lines remind me of the CRK line of fighters, but I find the Hogue (Alan Ellishewitz design) a bit more balanced in hand.
I've hard used it and have reprofiled the edge with the Edge Pro Apex. It was a snap to sharpen and the factory edge held for longer than my ESEE blades in similar use.
I didn't like the sheath (HATED) so I commissioned one be made by my uncle who is getting increasingly better at making kydex stuff...
This is a fighting knife at heart and I dig it. Its esthetically pleasing, ergos are outstanding and it performs well in the field.
I hang out at bladeforums and this, by my account, is a sleeper blade. Not many are talking about it there. Its a shame for those who don't own one, but it adds to the "cool" factor.
They can be found for around $200. I found this one for $175. Sheath ran me $20 due to the family discount. Pretty nice blade IMO.
I like the Hogue EXF-01. I opted to the 5.5 inch model as opposed to the 7".
Its made of A2 tool steel, which is a good choice for a fighter. It isn't stainless, obviously. I think CRK runs S35VN in their fighting blades these days, so if you're looking for a wet(ter) weather blade, the CRK, for no other reason than the steel choice, might suite you better. I like the idea of a stainless fixed blade, but I'm a little more apt to go with a carbon or tool steel for added toughness. I also live in AZ, so there is pretty much no chance for rust unless I neglect the hell out of the blade.
Some of the lines remind me of the CRK line of fighters, but I find the Hogue (Alan Ellishewitz design) a bit more balanced in hand.
I've hard used it and have reprofiled the edge with the Edge Pro Apex. It was a snap to sharpen and the factory edge held for longer than my ESEE blades in similar use.
I didn't like the sheath (HATED) so I commissioned one be made by my uncle who is getting increasingly better at making kydex stuff...
This is a fighting knife at heart and I dig it. Its esthetically pleasing, ergos are outstanding and it performs well in the field.
I hang out at bladeforums and this, by my account, is a sleeper blade. Not many are talking about it there. Its a shame for those who don't own one, but it adds to the "cool" factor.
They can be found for around $200. I found this one for $175. Sheath ran me $20 due to the family discount. Pretty nice blade IMO.
Looking at the recommendations throughout the thread, I would add the Fallkniven Garm to the list to be considered.
There is much debate about the "best" fighting knife. The most popular ones (in no particular order) seem to be:
1. Bowie
2. Dagger (Fairbairn/Sykes is most popular)
3. Khukuri
4. Japanese Tanto style
In order to make your decision about what YOU feel is the best one, research would help you out immensely. Also, consider the type of fighting you are anticipating. A face to face knife against knife interaction is far different than taking out a sentry. If your knife will double as a general purpose tool, you need to consider that also.
The American Knifemaking/Bladesmith society can give you much information. Bill Bagwell, is one of the founders, and believes that the Bowie knife is the best all around fighting knife. It can thrust, and cut. The khukuri is great at chopping cuts, but doesn't thrust as well...the dagger is great at thrusts, but lacks the chopping ability of a large bowie or khukuri. A 16 inch Tanto can thrust, and cut, but doesn't conceal well. There is much to consider.
I used to make quitea few knives, and although I really like daggers, the lack of a significant "belly" on the blade, makes them much less useful in utility areas.
I would recommend a bowie style similar to those made by Randall, or Bagwell. Although I sure wouldn't feel under armed with a 12 inch tanto.
1. Bowie
2. Dagger (Fairbairn/Sykes is most popular)
3. Khukuri
4. Japanese Tanto style
In order to make your decision about what YOU feel is the best one, research would help you out immensely. Also, consider the type of fighting you are anticipating. A face to face knife against knife interaction is far different than taking out a sentry. If your knife will double as a general purpose tool, you need to consider that also.
The American Knifemaking/Bladesmith society can give you much information. Bill Bagwell, is one of the founders, and believes that the Bowie knife is the best all around fighting knife. It can thrust, and cut. The khukuri is great at chopping cuts, but doesn't thrust as well...the dagger is great at thrusts, but lacks the chopping ability of a large bowie or khukuri. A 16 inch Tanto can thrust, and cut, but doesn't conceal well. There is much to consider.
I used to make quitea few knives, and although I really like daggers, the lack of a significant "belly" on the blade, makes them much less useful in utility areas.
I would recommend a bowie style similar to those made by Randall, or Bagwell. Although I sure wouldn't feel under armed with a 12 inch tanto.
The bit of the Yarborough knife shown in the photo looks very much like one of the Al Mar SERE knives made back when Al Mar was still alive. I know Harsey, and have had him make knives for me...fine fellow, and a hell of a knife maker. Harsey used to make many of the prototype knives for Al Mar. Al would then send the prototype off to an overseas maker to get bids for having a number of pieces made.
The Al Mar knife company had a number of SF, or SERE designs back when Al was alive. Al was a Green Beret before he went into the knife business. After Al's death, majority interest in the company was sold to Al's friend Gary Fadden, who has run the company since then. They still make a number of interesting designs, and the older models can often be found on auction sites. However, many designs became popular enough that there were some counterfeits made. Mr. Fadden can tell you how to spot counterfeits from originals.
The Al Mar knife company had a number of SF, or SERE designs back when Al was alive. Al was a Green Beret before he went into the knife business. After Al's death, majority interest in the company was sold to Al's friend Gary Fadden, who has run the company since then. They still make a number of interesting designs, and the older models can often be found on auction sites. However, many designs became popular enough that there were some counterfeits made. Mr. Fadden can tell you how to spot counterfeits from originals.
Just incase there are any naysayers out there about knives... From my perspective spending 20 years as a civilian paramedics and emergency nurse, I've seen WAY more people killed and maimed with knives than with firearms. It's a most impressive sight to see three gang bangers laying around trying to die, two of which have bowels hanging out and the 3rd with his liver and spleen wrecked by a 2.5" knife expertly applied by a single other gang banger they were trying to jump. Respect the knife...
Very true and more people are killed/maimed with simple kitchen type knives than "fighting" or "combat" knives around the world every day.
From the original post of "Best" I can't say. I think it has been an evolution. People, soldiers, adapt. Although I am very familiar with Les George, I never saw that one in the above post! Very cool.
Before the bowie, was a tanto, before that was some rapier type stabber from when knights wore armor. Vietnam saw the rise of the Gerber MK II. I have an "original in L 6 steel, quite a tough blade. WW II had some interesting blades and I would venture to say the old K-Bar did OK. The Harsey/Reeves collaboration is a pretty good piece. Randall # 1 is really wonderful and feels quite lively in hand. Certainly feels 'quicker" than the Harsey piece. Phil Hartsfield made a pretty freakin bad ass blade. Ernie Emerson credits Hartsfield so there you have it. Oh and there is some guy that lives in a yurt or some shit in Texas that makes a pretty good blade, darn near unobtanium. I been to knife shows for a long time and seen like one...... But Hartsfield is respected by many.
I guess that is going to be my answer - Hartsfield. He passed away and from what I hear, took his secrets to the grave. His son is continuing the tradition, so maybe there is some continuem.
Before the bowie, was a tanto, before that was some rapier type stabber from when knights wore armor. Vietnam saw the rise of the Gerber MK II. I have an "original in L 6 steel, quite a tough blade. WW II had some interesting blades and I would venture to say the old K-Bar did OK. The Harsey/Reeves collaboration is a pretty good piece. Randall # 1 is really wonderful and feels quite lively in hand. Certainly feels 'quicker" than the Harsey piece. Phil Hartsfield made a pretty freakin bad ass blade. Ernie Emerson credits Hartsfield so there you have it. Oh and there is some guy that lives in a yurt or some shit in Texas that makes a pretty good blade, darn near unobtanium. I been to knife shows for a long time and seen like one...... But Hartsfield is respected by many.
I guess that is going to be my answer - Hartsfield. He passed away and from what I hear, took his secrets to the grave. His son is continuing the tradition, so maybe there is some continuem.
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If you mean that it has a handle and a blade you would be correct but thats about it.
Correct, in fact he prototyped the fixed blade SERE's for Al. If you look at both knives, there are no design similarities, they each have their own distinct lines.
I have one of the original Al Mar tanto's and it is a very well made knife, I carried it on me during the first Gulf War in fact. I've used several of the Al Mar knives with the SF crest on it as a going away present for guys leaving the team, they are more decorative/commemorative knives in their appearance but still are well built. Interestingly enough, after Al passed, Mr Fadden never paid Al's wife for her 49% ownership in the AMK company which she sued him for and subsequently won in court. I believe Fadden has appealed the decision though.
Papa Zero Three
The small bit of the Yarborough knife in the photo just shows a bit of the blade and the handle junction. That was the area that looks very similar to the design of the fixed blade SERE's that Al had made (integral guard). But this design is popular, because it works so well. Without seeing the entire knife, of course, all I can comment on is the small bit of similarity I saw. I know that Al's fixed blade SERE's went through a number of different permutations with handle thicknesses, shapes, and materials. I used to own quite a few of the different ones. Although I understand the durability of using Micarta, I never understood why Al's knives had such slick micarta. The Micarta on your Yarborough knife has a roughed up finish that makes far more sense than a slick micarta. That slick micarta gets really slippery when it is wet with various liquids, the rubber handles on some of Al's Seres wasn't as bad, but rubber lacked the durability of micarta.
I did my level best to stay out of the fray that happened regarding the sale of Al's company. I was a good friend of Al's, and didn't want to stick my nose somewhere I was lacking information. Even though both sides of the sale obviously had their own point of view, all the people Al used to shoot with were very uncomfortable being in the middle of the dispute. So most of us tried to stay out of the fray.
For many years, I had one of the pre-production issue numbers for the pre-production knives that came out, but after Al's passing, and with the sale of the company, I lost interest in further collecting of the company's knives. I felt that they weren't "Al's" knives, as odd as that may sound. I think the 7 inch tanto blade that Al came up with was one of the most elegant looking blade designs. Although it's handle was a bit short for most people until Al had the spacer added onto it. I really liked the design of some of the sheaths that they came up with.
I haven't seen or spoken with Harsey for a number of years. The last time I spoke with him was at one of the Oregon knife shows, and he was still making really nice knives.
After Al's passing, I lost touch with a number of the people we used to associate with at various conventions. It seems that most of us went different ways.
The small bit of the Yarborough knife in the photo just shows a bit of the blade and the handle junction. That was the area that looks very similar to the design of the fixed blade SERE's that Al had made (integral guard). But this design is popular, because it works so well. Without seeing the entire knife, of course, all I can comment on is the small bit of similarity I saw. I know that Al's fixed blade SERE's went through a number of different permutations with handle thicknesses, shapes, and materials. I used to own quite a few of the different ones. Although I understand the durability of using Micarta, I never understood why Al's knives had such slick micarta. The Micarta on your Yarborough knife has a roughed up finish that makes far more sense than a slick micarta. That slick micarta gets really slippery when it is wet with various liquids, the rubber handles on some of Al's Seres wasn't as bad, but rubber lacked the durability of micarta.
I did my level best to stay out of the fray that happened regarding the sale of Al's company. I was a good friend of Al's, and didn't want to stick my nose somewhere I was lacking information. Even though both sides of the sale obviously had their own point of view, all the people Al used to shoot with were very uncomfortable being in the middle of the dispute. So most of us tried to stay out of the fray.
For many years, I had one of the pre-production issue numbers for the pre-production knives that came out, but after Al's passing, and with the sale of the company, I lost interest in further collecting of the company's knives. I felt that they weren't "Al's" knives, as odd as that may sound. I think the 7 inch tanto blade that Al came up with was one of the most elegant looking blade designs. Although it's handle was a bit short for most people until Al had the spacer added onto it. I really liked the design of some of the sheaths that they came up with.
I haven't seen or spoken with Harsey for a number of years. The last time I spoke with him was at one of the Oregon knife shows, and he was still making really nice knives.
After Al's passing, I lost touch with a number of the people we used to associate with at various conventions. It seems that most of us went different ways.
I love my Ares by Spartan Blades Ares - Fighter / Combat Utility Ares - Fighter / Combat Utility [SB1] - $328.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent
There is also their dagger that is really nice Spartan Breed Fighter - Dagger Spartan Breed Fighter - Dagger [SB21] - $385.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent
Lastly they make this CQB Tool CQB Tool [SB9] - $160.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent
Again it is up to the individual and is pretty much subjective.
There is also their dagger that is really nice Spartan Breed Fighter - Dagger Spartan Breed Fighter - Dagger [SB21] - $385.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent
Lastly they make this CQB Tool CQB Tool [SB9] - $160.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent
Again it is up to the individual and is pretty much subjective.
There are all sorts of great knives. Much of the discussion of which is "best" is like listening to people discuss whether Ford or Chevy is "best". If they get the job done, they are good to go.
The most popular fighting knives seem to have some relationship to the following, listed in no particular order:
1. Bowie: Bagwell, and Randall are some of the more popular, but there are plenty of good ones.
2. Fairbairn Sykes: Gerber and many other companies make great daggers, beware of cheap knock offs of the original
Fairbairn Sykes.
3. Khukuri: Used to great effect by the Ghurkas
4. Scottish Dirk: Many laws were enacted to prohibit carrying Dirks and Bowies...for good reason...they work. I'm not referring
to the cheap costume Dirks, rather I'm referring to a true battlefield weapon with sharpened edges, and good steel. To get
what I wanted, I had to either have it made by someone like Tinker Pearce, or the one I made out of A2 tool steel...Mine is
a 14 inch long razor sharp Dirk with a 4 inch sharpened back edge.
5. Kabar and similar knives. Technically a sort of bowie, but much cheaper. A really good Kabar out of D2 tool steel will run you
around $139.
To truly choose your knife, you have to know something about steels. A steel that makes a great folding pocket knive might be far to brittle for a large fixed blade. Stainless steel simply doesn't sharpen up the same way high carbon steels do. Sure, you can get some stainless steels to sharpen up nicely, but with the same amount of work a high carbon tool steel blade will be shockingly sharp.
The most popular fighting knives seem to have some relationship to the following, listed in no particular order:
1. Bowie: Bagwell, and Randall are some of the more popular, but there are plenty of good ones.
2. Fairbairn Sykes: Gerber and many other companies make great daggers, beware of cheap knock offs of the original
Fairbairn Sykes.
3. Khukuri: Used to great effect by the Ghurkas
4. Scottish Dirk: Many laws were enacted to prohibit carrying Dirks and Bowies...for good reason...they work. I'm not referring
to the cheap costume Dirks, rather I'm referring to a true battlefield weapon with sharpened edges, and good steel. To get
what I wanted, I had to either have it made by someone like Tinker Pearce, or the one I made out of A2 tool steel...Mine is
a 14 inch long razor sharp Dirk with a 4 inch sharpened back edge.
5. Kabar and similar knives. Technically a sort of bowie, but much cheaper. A really good Kabar out of D2 tool steel will run you
around $139.
To truly choose your knife, you have to know something about steels. A steel that makes a great folding pocket knive might be far to brittle for a large fixed blade. Stainless steel simply doesn't sharpen up the same way high carbon steels do. Sure, you can get some stainless steels to sharpen up nicely, but with the same amount of work a high carbon tool steel blade will be shockingly sharp.
I'm surprised that the Steve Woods (thewoodsman007) Hide Fighter. I've been looking for a nice quality custom field knife and discovered Scott Woods through his knives that sell through Wilson Combat. I then discovered the Hide Fighter and the tie-in to this site. I believe it was crowd-sourced developed by SH members. I've got one on order and it should be shipping today.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-field-photography/120985-show-me-your-hide-fighter.html
Rock River Iron Works
Maybe I'm a little late to the game with this, but I've been looking for a knife like this for some time and it will replace my Buck / Hood Punk, which has been a great field knife, and one I'll be gifting to a friend.
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-field-photography/120985-show-me-your-hide-fighter.html
Rock River Iron Works
Maybe I'm a little late to the game with this, but I've been looking for a knife like this for some time and it will replace my Buck / Hood Punk, which has been a great field knife, and one I'll be gifting to a friend.
My take on the perfect fighting knife, would be my Kiku Matsuda KM-565 Osoraku Zukuri, 9 inch blade in OU -31 steel, with G10 handles.
A modern version of the traditional japanese fighting knife.
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/fbbuploads/1352465604-Img1612.jpg
The japanese blades seem to be very overlooked here, the design was perfected several hundred years before any of the others, were even thought of.
And i can't see what make a Bowie better, when used for the sole purpose of cutting flesh.
Japanese blades were certainly not ment to be used against heavy armor, but as with swords, when used in the proper manner there is really not anything that can beat a katana when it comes to cutting soft targets.
They do require the proper technique to be as effective as they can be though.
A modern version of the traditional japanese fighting knife.
http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/fbbuploads/1352465604-Img1612.jpg
The japanese blades seem to be very overlooked here, the design was perfected several hundred years before any of the others, were even thought of.
And i can't see what make a Bowie better, when used for the sole purpose of cutting flesh.
Japanese blades were certainly not ment to be used against heavy armor, but as with swords, when used in the proper manner there is really not anything that can beat a katana when it comes to cutting soft targets.
They do require the proper technique to be as effective as they can be though.
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A buddy of mine makes these for some spec ops guys.
These are hand made and are not knife fighting knives, but knife killing knives.
The features incorporated into the designed are to work with knife killing techniques taught to people that do that sort of stuff as their profession.
It is not cheap.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...181833.-2207520000.1380868667.&type=3&theater
These are hand made and are not knife fighting knives, but knife killing knives.
The features incorporated into the designed are to work with knife killing techniques taught to people that do that sort of stuff as their profession.
It is not cheap.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...181833.-2207520000.1380868667.&type=3&theater
Really? Funny thing is I haven't been issued one or seen any of the guys I work with ,with one during our knife fighting sessions, but then again I haven't been issued that fancy watch in the skymall magazine that says it's being used by "Spec Ops" either. Now that I think about it, none of my team mates have that watch either. I'm gonna have to go see the supply Sgt and ask him why my team mates and I don't have these "as used by Spec Ops" items I see everywhere.
Last time I checked, scallop serrations weren't a feature especially useful in the dispatching of an enemy, unless the enemy happens to be rope.
Seeing how that knife has no quillion on it, chance are very good the users hand would slide onto those serrations during a thrusting motion when a hard object, like bone, was encountered. Sorry, but it looks gimmicky to me and yes, I do this sort of stuff as a part of my profession.
As if...bunch of novices....oh yea....you should see the sheath.....you should see a guy putting it in the sheath. Just be sure you have used the Mens Room before getting it on with this monster.
I' have a buddy that's a fourth order Sansii Woosu. He literally air slices for 5 full minutes with this on you tube....twice. He goes by the name Leaky Sanguis.
I' have a buddy that's a fourth order Sansii Woosu. He literally air slices for 5 full minutes with this on you tube....twice. He goes by the name Leaky Sanguis.
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I have personal experience in knife fighting.First the sneak attack and turning the head or placing the knee in an opponents back is effective.Pulling an opponent onto a pointed double edge blade into the base of the neck effective as well.Now fighting face to face is another story.There are eight slashes and puncture moves like a pyramid are effective.The objective is to kill not wound so frontal throat is a death knell and must be protected by the arm.I was in a knife fight, I was slower than my opponent while protecting my throat was stabbed under my arm pit several inches deep.I was able to control the outcome by bending the blade by forcing my arm down and tight to prevent twisting of the blade.At the same time I was unable to switch blade hands being right handed.So I punched and head butted and bit the face of my opponent.I did win but almost lost due to the pushing and attempted twisting of the blade between my ribs and in my lung.The thing was I didn't bleed out until after the fight and a few minutes had passed it got me and I lifted my arm up.If that blade was stronger and wider it might have been different story.It was a stiletto type blade they used.I have known many combat soldiers and Marines who have used a knife to kill.Sometimes a bayonet type blade can get stuck in bone and be very difficult to remove.Also a blade that is only sharp on one side limits the slash and only creates a rake cut.I prefer a blade that is 6 inches long sharpened on both sides and has a point a strong piercing point .Being able to have a balanced blade to switch hands is a plus and the quickness of the blade in slashing and piercing or thrusting is an advantage.The physiological effect of seeing a Bowie is nerve racking and quite formidable to view.One thing to remember is train and train and train till it's second nature, offence and defence knife fighting.I don't ever want to be in that situation again.All the blades mentioned here are good just use what you can actually fight with.
