Sidearms & Scatterguns Whats the best designed true fighting knife

[ArmaHeavy]

I have to point out that the current Tanto style blade in America is more of an American style, then Japanese style.

The original design for a Japanese style Tanto is closer to a drop point then anything else. Basically more curve, then the angles of an American style Tanto blade.

 

[dragbag]

That is such a general statement. Don't be so fast to lup all makers into a single catagory. There are plenty of makers out there that still build to traditional standards. Also note that was one type in a wide range that I included. But in reality design even back then changed from maker and or region as well as time period. Either way it is still the best and standard to judge all other true fighters. re-read my post and you will see I did not suggest any makers.

 

[Graham]

Whats the best designed true fighting knife

The Cold Steel Peacekeeper and Steel Tiger get my vote.

If you ever get ambushed by an army of chopsticks or a large rope, you will be well prepared.

 

[bluto51]

Ka-Bar and Sykes Fairbairn designs come to mind for the battlefield, but I'd go with a Bowie as a true fighter.
They have thousands of variants to suit you and many are both functional and works of art. As a collector and former
chef for over 20 years who worked with knives every day, I can say that the Bowie is one of my
favorite designs. Even if it was formerly a cleaver. Yeah, kitchens can be tough places. LOL

Cleaver/Bowie

 

[earthtrekker1775]

I have had and used Ka-Bars for years, I will likely never be without one. I have had several very nice custom blades but I really like the simplicity and timelessness of bowie style blades and daggers. They just work.

 

[OneCleanShot]

How about the Ballistic Knife! Hey......it works wonders playing Call of Duty! ha ha

 

[earthtrekker1775]

How about the Ballistic Knife! Hey......it works wonders playing Call of Duty! ha ha

The only ballistic knife I own is a Glock 21.

 

[JohnMWoo]

Another opinion here....

Sorry if someone has already said this.

It really depends upon your knife fighting style. Asking what is the best fighting knife is a bit like asking what is the best combat firearm. What role will you be in when the fighting starts? A sniper? An assaulter? A breacher? Undercover?

The best fighting knife for a soldier? A civilian? What style of knife fighting do you use?

I don't know that there is a best answer without knowing the above.

Sorry if you or someone already addressed or answered this.

Respectfully,
John W

 

[zenbiker]

I've done a little playing around with an Emerson Karambit. One of my aikido instructors is also 3rd degree in arnis, so we occasionally change it up to sticks and knives. I can honestly say someone who knows what they're doing with a karambit is one of the most intimidating things I've ever seen. I'm sure someone will disagree though.

no disagreement here, I favor the karambit because it adapts itself to empty handed techniques with the addition of a wickedly sharp, curved single or double edge blade that cuts on the way in and out from a fists closed, forearm forward boxing style position. I carry one on each side of my body in the event I'm stupid enough or can't run fast enough not t need them. Your results will vary.

I do have one blade that I favor above all others; its a 29 1/2" Bainite Katana forged from true Japanese tamahagane by Master Song Lee Park of Korea. I find it draws a lot of unnecessary attention, so I don't carry it unless I have my Jedi robes on...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[majvret]

KraigWY post
With it's intended attachment, all the better

 

[123Nick]

LMFAO.

I would be interested to hear how many soldiers returning from Iraq and Afgan actually got into a knife fight while in combat? I can't imagine alot. I would think that WW! in the trenches it happened more frequently.

you can still carry one... here is a SEAL with a Winkler belt knife.

 

[Toast]

Trench knife

 

[Shooter0311]

I do like my winkler knife..... I have used the hell out of it in many utility situations.

 

[str8shuuter]

I think I would want a Kukri vs kbar/camillus in a knife fight. See youtube link below. Unfortunately, I have 3 kbars and zero kukris.lol My EDC knife is a SOG flash with 3.5" black tanto blade. I have drilled knife fighting and if the situation were real I go in knowing I'm gonna get cut. If at all possible run!

Deadliest Warrior: Kukri vs Camillus - YouTube

Also, mythbusters debunked the usefulness of bringing a gun to a knife fight..you need to be at least 18' away and anticipating a knife attack for your gun to be effective.

Mythbusters Never Bring a Knife to a Gun Fight - YouTube

 

[kraigWY]

That You-Tube Myth Buster video is the worse piece of crap I've seen from Myth Busters and I've seen some doozies.

Who in their right mind would carry an pistol without a round in the chamber?

I put on self defense classes and we cover Knife vs. Gun in Self Defense. It don't work that way. The normal rule people say is "With in 21 Feet" the knife has the advantage.

First off, if one is brandishing a knife, no one in their right mind is going to leave the gun in its holster. But that's not what I push. I pocket carry a 642, plus my hands are always in my pocket.

It takes me on the average of 0.45 sec. to draw the gun and hit the vital area of a ISPCA target. You aren't going to start at a dead run and cover 21 feet in .45 seconds. Plus how much effort does it take to side step after firing?

A scenario I do in my classes is to stand facing the target. A knife welder stands behind me at 21 feet. When the timer goes off the knife welder tries to tap me before I get the shot off.

Aint happened lately.

But the real problem is, the knife fighter takes a hell of a long time to get proficient. Few bandits are going to put that much effort into knife fighting. Few citizens are going to put in the effort to be proficient with a knife where it would be a useful SD weapon.

It takes a lot less effort to learn the use of a handgun enough you can defend yourself at normal SD distances.

Take Myth Busters with a gain of salt. The guy's an actor, not a gun or knife fighter.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I agree with Kraig, both of those scenarios are flawed. the Kukri is a formable knife but for straight up knife fighting, it's not the preferable type of knife to have. The myth buster scenario and even the 21 foot rule of thumb is a flawed mind set to assume in a real world environment. You realistically need more than 21 feet to go from a field interview to gun clear of holster to putting lead on an attacker, 21 is a bare minimum distance for someone who already has an idea the suspect is going to do something shady and is leaning towards drawing down on them, for the truly unsuspecting/prepared it is usually enough distance to start to clear the holster. Thats not shit house lawyer, internet legend rhetoric, its what has been proven in real world environments, the 21 foot rule is a rule of thumb and not hard and fast, it is a minimum.

 

[Unknown]

Kraig makes some very good points. I don't even feel the need to draw the backup pistol (Smith and Wesson Model 296 in 44 spcl) from the coat pocket I keep my hand in. If it came down to an actual attack, I would be perfectly comfortable shooting through the coat or jacket pocket. Because the pistol is a hammerless revolver, I don't worry about fabric catching the hammer and causing a malfunction.

However, like Kraig said, If someone has a knife out, I wouldn't leave my primary pistol in it's holster...it would be in my hand. I think the fighter who has either the element of surprise, superior weaponry, or better training will maintain the tactical advantage.

 

[Steve1]

I've learned a lot from this thread.

I guess I can put everything I know about knife fighting into one post. Pardon my rambling thoughts.

I graduated from Special Forces training in 1970. Many that I trained with were going to Vietnam. There were three phases of training. Knife fighting was not part of the Q course then. I had a friend who was an officer. They went through a different qualifying regimen and they did receive some knife fighting training. We all figured we needed a killer knife back then. Knives weren't issued on graduation then..... Most of us went down to the PX and bought a Gerber (dagger type knife). It had the grey rough out handle. I liked the knife, but I wonder if a shorter knife wouldn't be handier. So, most of us had a killer knife and no idea how to use it. Now, 45 years later, I'm trying to figure out what knife fighting is all about.

I bought a couple of the shorter, dagger type, chinese (boot) knives. I like the looks of them and the price. But the bottom line is that they are very cheaply made. One of them is impossible to sharpen. I don't know what's wrong with the steel in it, but nothing will get it sharp. The other isn't much better. I need to buy a better quality knife.

I watched a former Navy Seal giving some instruction on knife carry. This was on the boob tube. I know this isn't the best form of training, but I still learn a lot from it. At any rate, this guy carried what looked like a boot knife on his left side. It was concealed under his T-shirt. On his right hip, was a Glock 19. He could draw his knife faster than he could the pistol. If someone was fighting you, and you were trying to defend your pistol with your right hand, it would be nice to be able to quickly grab your knife with your left.

I know a young guy, who is an Airborne Ranger. He just finished his fourth tour of Afganistan. He said that in doing building searches it is not unusual for a soldier to be attacked at very close quarters. His company of Rangers have had a couple of knife kills. He said most of the soldiers he worked with carried a knife for close quarters fighting.

I've thought about carrying a boot knife, on my belt, on my left side. I often carry a Glock 19 on my right. No, I'm not in Afganistan, but I live in an oil boom area of North East Montana. The crime rate has risen dramatically since the boom hit. I don't plan on being a victim....I know I need more training though. I paid for a pistol course in Nevada, but haven't gone yet. I probably should get some knife training too.....

 

[Unknown]

I guess the most relevant thing said here is that if you are ever involved in a real knife fight, you are most likely going to get cut. (At least if both parties in the fight have knives)

Studying various styles of blade fighting has always interested me. Japanese, fencing style, 19 century bowie, and Khukuri are the only ones i have significant exposure to. Kali/escrima would be one I wouid like to learn more about.

 

[123Nick]

Here are a couple of ideas and concepts:
- Greg Thompson explains design and use of the SOCP dagger SOCP - Special Operations Combatives Program
- Kyle Defoor on close and personal combatives (skip to the 4th min) Kyle Defoor gets up close and personal with combatives. - YouTube

 

[kraigWY]

Knives tools, useful tools. When I was infantry it was in the jungles. I had two. A bayonet for digging holes (lighter and almost as fast as an entrenching tool. The other I kept razor sharp to cut my self out of wait-a-minute vines which were plentiful. But you had to keep it where you could get to it. Not in an ankle scabbard, but taped to straps on my rack.

Close quarters, in dwellings or tunnels, I had a 1911a1. Much more effective and took less training.

Fast forward to my LE days. I did a ton of building searches, I also had my service revolver, again, more effective and took less training.

Knife fighting takes a ton of training, and a lot more practice, plus you have to be in fairly good shape. You can be old and out of shape and still produce and use a handgun. It also takes practice, but at knife fighting range, not near as much as a knife.

There is a reason cops carry handguns instead of knives in their duties.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Here are a couple of ideas and concepts:
- Greg Thompson explains design and use of the SOCP dagger SOCP - Special Operations Combatives Program

I've trained with and use the SOCP dagger, it's a good combatives program, I know the guys at Spartan who make the SOCP knife in fact, great product. It's a great knife but it's really a "get the fuck off of me" knife for those who expect to be in very close proximity to the bad guy and often caught by surprise. I wouldn't choose to use the SOCP in the same way I'd use any other knife offensively, it's really a specific designed use knife with the intent to be used with a handgun as soon as you can free yourself from your attacker.

 

[RobertB]

A machete-


But.....

A pistol is the best tool for a knife fight is what I've always been told.

 

[123Nick]

What would your offensive knife look like?

I've trained with and use the SOCP dagger, it's a good combatives program, I know the guys at Spartan who make the SOCP knife in fact, great product. It's a great knife but it's really a "get the fuck off of me" knife for those who expect to be in very close proximity to the bad guy and often caught by surprise. I wouldn't choose to use the SOCP in the same way I'd use any other knife offensively, it's really a specific designed use knife with the intent to be used with a handgun as soon as you can free yourself from your attacker.

 

[Steve1]

Yep, that's the same video I was referring to....

 

[Papa Zero Three]

What would your offensive knife look like?

Check out page's 1-2 of this thread, my previous posts and pictures show what I've carried in combat and thought process on why.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Yep, that's the same video I was referring to....

Steve, do you happen to be an active skydiver?

 

[Steve1]

Steve, do you happen to be an active skydiver?

I haven't jumped in about three or four years. I still have a couple rigs left, and hope to get back into jumping. I sold one of my rigs, last week, to buy a new long range scope for my 300 Win. Mag. I'm getting to be an old fart, but I hope to start up jumping again this summer. I started jumping in the Army, back in 1970. It scared me a lot, at first, but I grew to like it. I eventually went to army jumpmaster school and started skydiving. I never went to HALO school. I wish I could have gotten that training. I quit jumping entirely for about 25 years. I now have about 850 sport jumps. (Probably 40 some army jumps). That seems like a lot of jumps, but I have friends with six and seven thousand jumps....I need to get back in the air....I miss it.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I haven't jumped in about three or four years. I still have a couple rigs left, and hope to get back into jumping. I sold one of my rigs, last week, to buy a new long range scope for my 300 Win. Mag. I'm getting to be an old fart, but I hope to start up jumping again this summer. I started jumping in the Army, back in 1970. It scared me a lot, at first, but I grew to like it. I eventually went to army jumpmaster school and started skydiving. I never went to HALO school. I wish I could have gotten that training. I quit jumping entirely for about 25 years. I now have about 850 sport jumps. (Probably 40 some army jumps). That seems like a lot of jumps, but I have friends with six and seven thousand jumps....I need to get back in the air....I miss it.

I hear you. I ask because I have a fellow SF buddy named Steve and thought you might have been him.You know about Professionalsoldiers.com?

 

[Steve1]

I hear you. I ask because I have a fellow SF buddy named Steve and thought you might have been him.You know about Professionalsoldiers.com?

Thanks for that website. I'll have to check it out. I used to B.S. with another skydiver named Steve Phelps on Dropzone.com. He was former Special Forces, very religious, I think he worked as a counselor.

 

[Petrov]

Can some one explain this whole karambit knife thing? Seems to me it is more of a hinderance if you do not know how to use it. What is it about?

 

[Lazlo]

Petrov - check out the Tarani series of videos on Youtube. It should answer most of your questions on the karambit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2llJjzQHQ

 

[Bigchaza]

Wanted to hear everyone thoughts and see some pics of what's the best designed true fighting knife. Just looking to add true fighting designed blade to the collection

In my honest opinion I have never seen a knife that would be a more efficienct mess machine than this baby
Elen Hunting & Importing Inc.: Podenquero Series 2

 

[din]

Probably (definitely) the Dark Ops The Interceptor E&E.

Every time this thread gets bumped I want to punch the OP in the dick.

 

[Jig Stick]

If it's long enough and sharp enough to hit the liver, kidneys, or spleen, it's gtg.

 

[TacBlade]

Spartan / Harsey Model 1 Limited Edition, but no longer availiable. You can have the Model 2, which is the exact same knife, but with a 6 1/8" blade.

I use mine for lots of different tasks, even digging dinosaur bones! (See Pic)

Spartan - Harsey Model 1 LE - The first collaboration knife for Spartan Blades. Designed by world renowned knife maker / designer William Harsey Jr. We jumped at the opportunity to do this project with Bill. These knives blend the lines between a fine hand made custom and finely machined custom by using hand work and machines to the best effect. This is a knife you will be proud to carry and use or add to your collection of fine knives. The Spartan - Harsey has a fully contoured micarta handle that grips the hand like an old friend. You will understand what a fine bush knife should be once you've put your hands on this knife. Limited to 250 total! (LE XXX of 250) Every blade is hand ground by Mr. Harsey with the rest of the work done by us. We have a truly great collaboration and deliver a great field / combat knife with this one!
WINNER of "BLADE SHOW - Knife Collaboration of the Year - 2010"
Specifications:
Knife Name: Spartan - Harsey Model 1
Designer(s): William Harsey
Overall Length: 13 1/4"
Blade Length: 7 5/8”
Blade Thickness: 3/16”
Blade Steel: CPM S30V
Blade Hardness: 58-59 HRC
Blade Style: Fixed Drop Point— The blade has a flat ground main bevel with a 10" hollow gound top edge.
Coating: Flat Dark Earth (FDE) Spartacoat PVD ZrN
Handle Material: Black CE Canvas Micarta®
Sheath: Black Kydex with Belt Drop Loop
Weight: 0.862 LBS

 

[aika]

Slashing the jugular/carotid artery almost never fails to end an opponents life. It certainly ends his chance to put up resistance. A coup-de-grace is to stab into the lower back finding the artery/vein that runs to/from the kidneys. High volume vessels that mean high loss when opened up. If you by chance, trip on your own ass into the fight, there's always one last shot at the femoral artery.

Huh? Let me tell you, you cut the carotid, the person will die very quickly in an overwhelming majority of cases. Hitting the carotid is much easier than the renal artery. Lacerating the abdominal aorta and liver are no jokes either.

 

[-R-]

I've done a little playing around with an Emerson Karambit. One of my aikido instructors is also 3rd degree in arnis, so we occasionally change it up to sticks and knives. I can honestly say someone who knows what they're doing with a karambit is one of the most intimidating things I've ever seen. I'm sure someone will disagree though.

[

Id have to agree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7TPa1eQ8w

 

[sandwarrior]

Huh? Let me tell you, you cut the carotid, the person will die very quickly in an overwhelming majority of cases. Hitting the carotid is much easier than the renal artery. Lacerating the abdominal aorta and liver are no jokes either.

I think you missed the point of the statement, that the carotid when cut usually (99.99%) leads to death very quickly, just as you said. But, sometimes even hitting the right point doesn't always cut the intended target. Case in point. While watching some "true story" crime series, where a perp slashed the victims throat and barely knicked the carotid. She bled profusely leading him to believe she was dead. However, she survived and was later able to give a description of the perp. Had his knife cut even one li'l millimeter deeper she would have died.

Even in this case this ended all resistance.

The rest of my post speaks for itself. Whenever and wherever possible in a knife fight you need to open blood vessels of the opponent to win. The best way to win is never get in the situation. Which is why I would choose a general utility type knife over a designated "kill" type knife.

That, of course, is if there is no where to retreat to after you are able to disable your opponent. As mentioned previously, in the civilian world, the legalities are immense. In the military world, if a guy can pull the trigger you pretty much have a right to stop it.

 

[123Nick]

this news from the soldier systems might resurrect the old thread...

Developed by Meynard Ancheta of Kali Dynamics with input from Torin Hill of TORIS and made by knife maker Jeff Crowner, the TROIKA is a purpose-built fighting knife intended as an improvement of point-first knives such as the Fairbairn-Sykes fighting knife.

The blade is designed for rapid-penetration/rapid-release, made from CPM 3V steel with Crowner Heat Treatment. The grip, which consists of hand-filed G10 scales, is designed with a neutral shape for style-agnostic use: “point up/down, blade forward/reversed… TROIKA don’t care.”

The TROIKA comes with a TORIS draw-driven Kydex sheath and color matched aluminum trainer knife.

The TROIKA G10 scales come in Graphite, Olive Drab, Coyote, and Black. The trainer G10 scales come in Red, Politician Red, Blueblack, and Politician Blueblack. Mounting options include a belt clip, brass studs, mini Tek-Lok, or Bawidamann small PUP.

Made in America, assembled by Veterans.

 

[marduk185]

not a rocket surgeon but my recent search for a goto killblade that wouldnt be cost prohibitive and oughtta take some abuse lead me to purchase 2 of these...

Glock Field Knives: Much knife, little money - YouTube

they are a pain to get an edge on the first time and i stippled the handles cuz glock plastic is a lil slippery feeling but i really likem, especially for the price.

 

[sigfan27]

Whats the best designed true fighting knife

Either of these. Top is a gryphon m30a1. Bottom is a Boker Plus Colubris.

 

[30calDeath]

Lately I have been looking at the collaboration between Les George and Spartan knives. They have produced the v-14 Dagger and it sure looks nice. Probably pick it up winter next year after my hunting trip.
Spartan-George V-14 Dagger [SB27] - $445.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent

 

[Unknown]

When instructors of knife technique train for a long time, they naturally develop a preference for whatever style of knife they train with the most. This is completely understandable, and expected. I suspect that people who do a great deal of training would fare pretty well with most styles of knife (bowie, dagger, karambit, khukuri, etc).

I would find it interesting to hear what most instructors think is the most useful/effective type of fighting knife for the "average Joe" who does a modest amount of knife training, but is NOT a highly trained person.

I suppose the popular press knife magazines have a vested interest in NOT creating a survey like that, because then makers of other styles of knives might feel slighted, and therefore stop advertising in the magazine.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Lately I have been looking at the collaboration between Les George and Spartan knives. They have produced the v-14 Dagger and it sure looks nice. Probably pick it up winter next year after my hunting trip.
Spartan-George V-14 Dagger [SB27] - $445.00 : Spartan Blades knives blades combat utility, Knives with Intent

Thats a slight variation of the knife I posted earlier in this thread. The collaboration knife is slightly different. The handles have a thumb divot and are different in general. Otherwise it is fundamentally the same knife/blade and is a work of art that can withstand field use. Spartan has the production capability to put them out in larger quantities than Les does, hence the collaboration much like you see done with Harsey/Reeves knives as an example.

 

[Unknown]

I have owned a number of handmade Harsey knives, and even been to Bill's shop a couple of times. Bill used to make prototypes for a friend of mine. His knives are second to none, and he is a great guy with a heart as big as all outdoors.

 

[CthulhuAwakens]

Probably (definitely) the Dark Ops The Interceptor E&E.

Every time this thread gets bumped I want to punch the OP in the dick.

Bump to see din punch the OPs dick.

 

[JaysonF]

The hissatsu has my vote. Brutally long, strong, straight blade, sharp as hell, and a great tactical knife for doing cqb. Someone grabs your barrel entering a room, come back around with the hissatsu right through the collar bone area. They'll do whatever you want then.
The sheath however leaves something to be desired.

http://www.crkt.com/Hissatsu

 

[Unknown]

The hissatsu has my vote. Brutally long, strong, straight blade, sharp as hell, and a great tactical knife for doing cqb. Someone grabs your barrel entering a room, come back around with the hissatsu right through the collar bone area. They'll do whatever you want then.
The sheath however leaves something to be desired.

Hissatsu | Fixed Blade Tactical Knives | CRKT

If you like the knife, but don't like the sheath, you could always design the "perfect" sheath for your purposes, and have someone build/make it. I have made lots of kit for myself precisely because the bits supplied with the item weren't quite what I wanted.

 

[JaysonF]

That's a great idea; I have no idea why I hadn't thought of that.