Are they actually that good and worth the money? I have seen these custom Rem 700 goes for a lot, but i cannot appreciate the beauty or functionality of it. Can someone chime in?
Whats the big deal with TacOps rifle?
- Thread starter nightwolf0215
- Start date
Sort answer is yes. They are custom rifles. If you can't appreciate their cost it's because you don't know what goes into building one. Just chambering and installing a match barrel onto a 700 action is going to cost $600-700 for the barrel, recoil lug, and labor. Most gunsmiths won't bother rebarreling a 700 action that hadn't been trued, though, so add another $250-350.
Tactical Bolt handle-$75-100
Composite stock, bedded-$600-1100 depending on model and options (the bedding process is necessary and critical that it be done right. Gunsmiths charge around $200)
Trigger work or trigger replacement $100-300 with labor
Truing scope rail mount holes and upsizing to 8-40 ~$100
As you can see, it adds up. And i haven't added bottom metal or factory rifle cost yet...
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Tactical Bolt handle-$75-100
Composite stock, bedded-$600-1100 depending on model and options (the bedding process is necessary and critical that it be done right. Gunsmiths charge around $200)
Trigger work or trigger replacement $100-300 with labor
Truing scope rail mount holes and upsizing to 8-40 ~$100
As you can see, it adds up. And i haven't added bottom metal or factory rifle cost yet...
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If you do a few internet searches you'll understand why people pay lots of money and wait a long time for these.
. Should probably do some research first before you ask a question like this.
LOL...^^^ Too Hot to handle and Too Sweet to Shoot! Every single one I've seen is a work of ART, every Test Target looks like ONE DAM HOLE!!!
The initial question was a bit knuckle-headed. How about changing the OP's question to "If you had to choose either a TacOps rifle or a BlackOps rifle which would you pick and, why? =-)
Holy cow, I remember when that thread went up, and it's been 5 years since then? Holy cow, where's my life gone!
Branden
I will preface this statement with the fact that I have not handled one of these rifles, so cannot comment on whether the price is worth it or not.
That being said, I think the OP's question is a legitimate one from the context of getting the best bang for the buck for your intended purpose.
Thru the years, I have had over 8 custom rifles built by such gunsmiths as R Bros, SSG, Montour County Rifles, Centershot Rifles. All were different calipers, and all were tack drivers. All were 1/2 MOA rifles out to 800 yards, and some, like my 7 Rogue and 338 built by R Bros were shot out to 1300 yards, and were still 3/4 or less MOA rifles.
All of these rifles were built for $3500 or less with custom actions and top notch components.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't these TacOp rifles in the $4500 range?
My point of this post is that I have not found it necessary to spent an additional $1-1,500 for my needs.
I think the jist of the OP's question was what is to be gained with the extra money on these rifles over other custom builds.
No disrespect intended to those that own these rifles, as I can appreciate quality work based on the fact that I have gone the custom route on many occasions.
That being said, I think the OP's question is a legitimate one from the context of getting the best bang for the buck for your intended purpose.
Thru the years, I have had over 8 custom rifles built by such gunsmiths as R Bros, SSG, Montour County Rifles, Centershot Rifles. All were different calipers, and all were tack drivers. All were 1/2 MOA rifles out to 800 yards, and some, like my 7 Rogue and 338 built by R Bros were shot out to 1300 yards, and were still 3/4 or less MOA rifles.
All of these rifles were built for $3500 or less with custom actions and top notch components.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't these TacOp rifles in the $4500 range?
My point of this post is that I have not found it necessary to spent an additional $1-1,500 for my needs.
I think the jist of the OP's question was what is to be gained with the extra money on these rifles over other custom builds.
No disrespect intended to those that own these rifles, as I can appreciate quality work based on the fact that I have gone the custom route on many occasions.
The biggest thing people look at is the price, well when you consider the amount of work he puts into the rifle, it well worth the cost. You are not just buying "a rifle" you are buying much more.
Mike knows his rifle intimately, and can recite all the work done to any rifle he puts out. Not to mention he has been in this business for a long time. They are immediately recognizable and to be honest, most people have never seen one because the owners covet them so much.
The results speak for themselves, nothing leaves until they shoot and shoot light's out. Tac Ops supplies test targets for each and every one and they are 1 hole targets. Very few builders supply test targets like this.
It's the same thing with a Custom 1911, why do some people pay $3k+ for one when there are others that cost sub $1k... because of the craftsmanship that goes into them. No different here.
this is about results, if you're only downside is the price, well then you haven't been paying attention to the industry or what a Premier Rifle really costs... Complaining it is expensive just means you can't afford it and now you're butt hurt about it.
This is no different than a good 1911, and you never see anyone complain, except guys who can't afford it. If you can't see the value, it's because you don't want to... you feel that because you paid for a particular action you must have something better, well that is not always the case. Lots of custom actions have issues, the fact the Tac Ops are tuned to the degree they are, means a hell of a lot more work goes into it. People think they got a "custom action" so you'll have short cuts, doesn't mean it's better, just means odds are the builder took it granted everything was right. Less work goes into a custom action because of this. Still i have seen my share of custom actions not work as advertised. A majority of my favorite rifles are built off Remingtons that have been worked on, instead of paying a premium for a custom only to have it shit the bed with less than 8k rounds through it. (true story, custom action "died" at 8k rounds, meanwhile i have 700s with more than 15k through them) Guys feel they did their homework and picked the "best" and then see a Tac Ops and start to question it. Well hold one, shoot one, there is no question.
Let me know if your custom build has test targets to match what I posted above, I bet not. Imagine if there were handloads involved.
One hole is a guarantee that takes work, there is a lot more too it and when you have one in your hand it is very evident where the money is spent. It's a long term investment, it's a collector's piece, and it's a shooter.
Mike knows his rifle intimately, and can recite all the work done to any rifle he puts out. Not to mention he has been in this business for a long time. They are immediately recognizable and to be honest, most people have never seen one because the owners covet them so much.
The results speak for themselves, nothing leaves until they shoot and shoot light's out. Tac Ops supplies test targets for each and every one and they are 1 hole targets. Very few builders supply test targets like this.
It's the same thing with a Custom 1911, why do some people pay $3k+ for one when there are others that cost sub $1k... because of the craftsmanship that goes into them. No different here.
this is about results, if you're only downside is the price, well then you haven't been paying attention to the industry or what a Premier Rifle really costs... Complaining it is expensive just means you can't afford it and now you're butt hurt about it.
This is no different than a good 1911, and you never see anyone complain, except guys who can't afford it. If you can't see the value, it's because you don't want to... you feel that because you paid for a particular action you must have something better, well that is not always the case. Lots of custom actions have issues, the fact the Tac Ops are tuned to the degree they are, means a hell of a lot more work goes into it. People think they got a "custom action" so you'll have short cuts, doesn't mean it's better, just means odds are the builder took it granted everything was right. Less work goes into a custom action because of this. Still i have seen my share of custom actions not work as advertised. A majority of my favorite rifles are built off Remingtons that have been worked on, instead of paying a premium for a custom only to have it shit the bed with less than 8k rounds through it. (true story, custom action "died" at 8k rounds, meanwhile i have 700s with more than 15k through them) Guys feel they did their homework and picked the "best" and then see a Tac Ops and start to question it. Well hold one, shoot one, there is no question.
Let me know if your custom build has test targets to match what I posted above, I bet not. Imagine if there were handloads involved.
One hole is a guarantee that takes work, there is a lot more too it and when you have one in your hand it is very evident where the money is spent. It's a long term investment, it's a collector's piece, and it's a shooter.
To answer the question that was asked, HELL YES they are worth every dollar. When you buy a Tac Ops rifle you are getting perfection. Now what it all comes down to is whether you can afford to pay what they are asking, but once you hold one and shoot one and then take it down and look at all the machine work that goes into it then I promise you will never ever ask if a Tac Ops Rifle is worth it. Also I forgot to mention NO OTHER RIFLE SHOOTS AS ACCURATE AS A TAC OPS RIFLE.
LL,
This is meant to be a question than trolling. I have no issue with spending money for first rate work. No question that there are many top 1911 smiths out there but when you consider the top ones they are very close to each other in price. For example, i know you respect Robert Gradeous. We can agree that his attention to detail is phenomenon. You supply the best components and he will build a kick ass rifle together for you for $1250.
So here is my crude estimate:
Labor $1250
Top tier barrel $350
McMillan stock $600
Top tier DBM: $350
Jewel trigger $230
Brake $150
Custom action (Stiller/Surgeon) $1100
TOTAL: $4030.
So my question to you is does what Tacops provide by using a Remington action instead of a Surgeon etc, and Remington trigger justify and provide a better rifle for more money?
This is meant to be a question than trolling. I have no issue with spending money for first rate work. No question that there are many top 1911 smiths out there but when you consider the top ones they are very close to each other in price. For example, i know you respect Robert Gradeous. We can agree that his attention to detail is phenomenon. You supply the best components and he will build a kick ass rifle together for you for $1250.
So here is my crude estimate:
Labor $1250
Top tier barrel $350
McMillan stock $600
Top tier DBM: $350
Jewel trigger $230
Brake $150
Custom action (Stiller/Surgeon) $1100
TOTAL: $4030.
So my question to you is does what Tacops provide by using a Remington action instead of a Surgeon etc, and Remington trigger justify and provide a better rifle for more money?
I know this is nothing new for many of you, but I recently had my mind blown wide open. I had the opportunity to take a gander in the trophy/gun room of a wealthy Safari hunter and outdoorsman.
What did I learn? I learned that "expensive" is an extremely relative term. My eyes were opened to a whole new world of "expensive". I couldn't believe a word when he started telling me about the rifles in his gun case... Take his $200,000 Holland & Holland Royal Double Rifle - now that's a whole new tier of "expensive". I didn't even know those kind of rifles existed - come to find out, I'm just LTK haha.
I think we should all count ourselves lucky that even the best and most expensive of our "tactical" rifles still run under $10,000. I can't imagine how different this sport would be if we were paying $50,000 - $300,000 for our rifles!
I have never handled a Tac Ops rifle, but I agree with those above - there is a new level of craftsmanship and care that go into rifles of this caliber.
What did I learn? I learned that "expensive" is an extremely relative term. My eyes were opened to a whole new world of "expensive". I couldn't believe a word when he started telling me about the rifles in his gun case... Take his $200,000 Holland & Holland Royal Double Rifle - now that's a whole new tier of "expensive". I didn't even know those kind of rifles existed - come to find out, I'm just LTK haha.
I think we should all count ourselves lucky that even the best and most expensive of our "tactical" rifles still run under $10,000. I can't imagine how different this sport would be if we were paying $50,000 - $300,000 for our rifles!
I have never handled a Tac Ops rifle, but I agree with those above - there is a new level of craftsmanship and care that go into rifles of this caliber.
Apples and Oranges, and in 5 days you are not even coming close to Tac Ops, especially at $1250. Without seeing them for yourself side by side you are just asking to be Butt Hurt by your question.
I can show you a ton of details that are not found in a single custom stick I own that is present in the Tac Ops...
I have a custom Stiller here and honestly I would not do another. I wont get into the details, but given the choice of a good Trued Remmy, my vote is Remington. Stiller is fine, but I recommend a Smith that not just dropping it in. No malice just some experience with it. Oh, I would never, ever, recommend a Jewell for a tactical Rifle, I would rather a worked over Remington there too... Jewells & Tactical should never be spoke in the same sentence.
Let's look at just a few pieces of detail on a Custom Stiller versus the Tac Ops
Recoil Lug area:
Tac Ops
In my opinion some of those $1100 actions are not worth that much money. But that is a different discussion.
These have the stocks worked, the barrels worked beyond what most do, the actions worked, the bolt's worked, I mean you can see the bolt work.
It's a huge fail to try and visualize what you are getting having never seen or shot one in person. Images don't do it justice, especially mine cause I use this stuff.
I have custom guns from a lot of guys and I have seen up close and personal even more, the Tac Ops earned its reputation and price tag. No slag on anyone else, I am a fan, and own other stuff, but... for a 308, hard to beat a Tac Ops, if you even can.
^^^thanks LL.
That was a fair answer I was looking for. Trust me I don't like to to skimp on anything. I essentially changed all my scopes to S&B PMII 5-25x in a matter of couple of months. I just wanted to know from someone that is in the know the reasoning behind such price if difference.
That was a fair answer I was looking for. Trust me I don't like to to skimp on anything. I essentially changed all my scopes to S&B PMII 5-25x in a matter of couple of months. I just wanted to know from someone that is in the know the reasoning behind such price if difference.
There is a trade off, it's not all roses.
Mike R take a long time and most people don't have the patience for it. If it's the one rifle you are counting on, odds are you're gonna wait and be disappointed.
I have spoken with more than one person who could not handle the wait. Especially in this day and age.
Mike R take a long time and most people don't have the patience for it. If it's the one rifle you are counting on, odds are you're gonna wait and be disappointed.
I have spoken with more than one person who could not handle the wait. Especially in this day and age.
This is so true. My wife works for a company whose owners are big time safari hunters. Their rifle collections are almost indescribable. Some of their rifles are $50,000 to $90,000 rigs. The calibers are huge and outrageous. The wood stocks are truly works of art. Engraving, inlaid metal and wood, just incedible. To top it off, they really shoot well and their game lodge trophy room has hundreds of mounts of everything with four legs in Africa. Sometimes I think these guys are really crazy and over the top but I guess if you have the money, desire, and passion for that kind of hunting, more power to you. Oh, and these guys spend millions on animal conservation and preservation. Not sure its applicable to compare something like my GAP 10 to their rifles. Mine would probably just piss off a rhino and get me eaten by a hippo or gored by a cape buffalo.
This is an interesting thread. I did not realize that custom actions needed extra work similar to a factory Remington. It makes sense though if you are chasing extreme tolerances and accuracy.
It makes me feel better about using a factory Remmy for my 1st custom. Next task - become rich and buy a Tac Ops.
It makes me feel better about using a factory Remmy for my 1st custom. Next task - become rich and buy a Tac Ops.
I apologize if my manner is misleading. I do find those targets to be very small, and yes, I wondered if they were three round groups or five. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.
I fell outta my chair laughing at this. The short answer is details. Details, details, details.
Frank thank's for the kind words you are always a gentleman and a Class Act
I was just kind of curious the OP comes on asks a couple of questions and gets a few solid answers and pulls a Criss Angel LOL. I would probably have to agree with 18 Echo...
Mike
Tac Ops
You dont have to be rich to buy one of his rifles. He asks for (if I remember) about half or a third up front as deposit. Surely you can afford $2k-$2.5k (depending on what model you get) up front after you save a little if you need too! Give the guy your money, and forget about it. He will call you or email you when he wants the rest of the payment and until then, all you have to do is save up the rest. This of course is with the assumption that you are not an Obama-Baby living off the Gov's dime...!!!
He is fair about it.
He gets what he gets because he can. He can because most of his civilian buyers are very discerning individuals that believe his price is justified. His signature rifles produce these little tiny groups with .308 FGMM. There's no load development, no OCD loading techniques, no nuthin'. Go to Cabela's, buy FGMM, go shooting. Just like restoring a car, the last ten points are going to cost as much as the first ninety and, just like a restoration, no matter how much money you give the wrong guy he's not going to get you there anyway.
Or maybe it's his giant advertising budget.
Or maybe it's his giant advertising budget.
It seem disingenuous to say that because you can't afford one, you dont know what true quality is.
While I can afford one, I don't see the need to spend more money for one. At some point the extra cost gives you very little return
on your money in perceived accuracy or quality. It is human nature to defend a product you spent a lot of money on, whether it be a scope,rifle,ect. If you didn't, it would bring into doubt your decision to buy it in the first place.
It is true that the people that buy these are discriminating buyers, and are looking for something special. But I also wonder if maybe some of them buy them just to say they own one.
Most of my custom rifle builds came with targets,( proving there accuracy) along with load data and dummy rounds showing ogive measurements for the bullet used on the target.
I think most good gunsmiths would want to do this to prove the accuracy of their build.
While I can afford one, I don't see the need to spend more money for one. At some point the extra cost gives you very little return
on your money in perceived accuracy or quality. It is human nature to defend a product you spent a lot of money on, whether it be a scope,rifle,ect. If you didn't, it would bring into doubt your decision to buy it in the first place.
It is true that the people that buy these are discriminating buyers, and are looking for something special. But I also wonder if maybe some of them buy them just to say they own one.
Most of my custom rifle builds came with targets,( proving there accuracy) along with load data and dummy rounds showing ogive measurements for the bullet used on the target.
I think most good gunsmiths would want to do this to prove the accuracy of their build.
What the hell do they do with load development? Or are they developed for the OAL of the federal match?
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Best to call Mike R. if you really want to know, but I from what i understand he uses proprietary reamers, and basically builds the rifle to shoot FGMM as opposed to the hand loader tailoring loads to suit the rifle.
It's his "secret recipe" of techniques that he's found to produce the accuracy desired. If Mike doesn't like the end result of the accuracy or if something just doesn't "feel" quite right he will tear down that rifle and start again until it meets his standard....
Mike is great to talk to and as busy as he is he still makes the time to answer your calls personally, and is a class act every time.
One of these days I WILL have Mike R. Build me a rifle, but I am in the category of the "I really want" and not fully able to....yet
Mike, ill get there one day ... Until then, ill just admire the work...
No, I was just saying how well will they shoot with load development. But, if the FGMM is what the rifle is designed around then I'm sure they are designed right for that and you can always manipulate, and try different bullets/powder etc. It's really just amazing stuff. I used to be a member at snipercentral a few years ago and everyone talked about those guns. I stopped hearing about them, figured they lost popularity. Guess not...
Does Mike ever make them with chassis or longer barrels or whatnot? I know he's more tactical than anything, but these things have to shoot as well as the best match rifles.
Does Mike ever make them with chassis or longer barrels or whatnot? I know he's more tactical than anything, but these things have to shoot as well as the best match rifles.
I have a question. Since these rifles are so accurate, why are they not being used in benchrest competitions?
Because you can achieve arguably better results with a rifle specifically designed for benchrest. Tacops are designed for TACTICAL shooting. Shooting on the move, etc. Could you lock one of these action/barrel combo into a bench stock, add a tripod with a joystick and custom tune the ammo? Yeah, and i bet it would be a shooter, but thats not the point. Its like asking why nascar cars arent used in drag racing. I bet those guys at Tacops could build an awesome bench rifle, but thats not their market.
it would cause to reason that a rifle that shoots one hole groups would be very desirable to folks looking to set long distance records.
Well I just couldn't wait any longer for an X-ray 51, so I called Mike and left a message. He called back on the same day ( today), and took my order! DONE! Check in the mail. Mike is an awesome guy, and a fast talker. No wander he's the best tac rifle builder, you can just hear the passion in his voice. Now the countdown begins!
enjoy that wait.. but it will be worth it i'm sure. That's the only thing holding me back right now.. dammit im way too impatient
It was a pleasure to speak with you and once again thank you for your order ... I'll be sure to time all your screws
Mike
Tac Ops
