What's your favorite WW2 and older bolt rifle and why?

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steve123

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Mar 16, 2008
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#1
I have very little experience with old rifles and would like to find out what the more accurate types were and what was special about them.

I'm trying to find out which old iron sight rifle to get to shoot informal long range competitions with. I met a group of shooters that have access to 1100Y on steel that shoot "old iron sight rifles" for quarters and I would like to be competitive with my own old bolt gun for the same purpose. Many years ago I used to own a sporterized Swedish Mauser but never shot it past 200 yards. It shot pretty well and would get 1.5-2" at 100Y. I also liked the low recoil of 6.5x55.

One of my fears is buying a old rifle only to find out it shoots horrible. Is there a Co that builds up old bolt rifles with new match quality barrels?

Thanks
 
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#3
I'm kind of partial to my Lee-Enfield's but I'm a little leery of shooting them a lot because I have no one local that will work on them if something requiring more than just simple parts swapping is needed.
I just got a 1903a3 Springfield that could take over. No shortage of good gunsmiths that will do work such as replacing a barrel if needed and it has almost limitless ammo and components availablility for the 30-06 where as the .303 British is very limited.
 
#4
Mosins, k 98. Mosins are cheap parts are everywhere and they are accurate if you look for a good one online instead of buying one out of a crate. Not to mention rugged and you can find ammo in most places. K98 look pretty and are well built better quality. But you cannot find ammo very Easy. If you want to spend money the m1 grand and carbine are the most fun to shoot.
 
#5
As far as accuracy goes there is a guy on gun broker selling mosin barreled recievers in really good shape if you want to put one together. Just remeber to glass bed it and do some trigger work and you will have a pretty good shooer
 
#7
I have a Swede too and like it a lot but you're back into the ammo availability problem. I personally prefer aperture sights also. For me the Mosin's felt recoil is a bit much after extended shooting. I think it must be the shape of the stock.
 
#9
BobC said:
I have a Swede too and like it a lot but you're back into the ammo availability problem. I personally prefer aperture sights also. For me the Mosin's felt recoil is a bit much after extended shooting. I think it must be the shape of the stock.
Click to expand...


I'll be reloading for it Bob, whichever cartridge I end up with and prefer aperture sights too.

I looked up Swedish Mauser on Wiki and saw that picture of the CG63 match rifle. I sure wouldn't mind something like that!

I am considering 03 Springfield but keep thinking 30-06 is going to be painful to shoot a whole afternoon. Guess I could get a shoulder pad.

I saw that the Krag came in 6.5x55. Anybody got one of those?

How about 7x57 in a 98K?

Who puts barrels on these old guns, like for instance the Swede?
 
#10
Most "old" rifles are far more accurate that people realize.

Condition is going to be an important factor... get as good condition an example as your finances allow.

The Swedish CG-63 or CG-80 competition rifles would almost be cheating. I'm a huge fan of the Ross M1910... the most accurate .303 I have ever owned or fired.
 
#12
98K's were all 8x57 iirc. Might get a contract rifle in 7x57 made for some other country. Chile? Persia? Some of them were 7MM and some in 7.65. All good sound rifles.
 
#14
I absolutely love my 1942 Sako Finnish M39. I always try the open sight/iron sight thing for a while but always end up putting a scope up top. This is the one gun that I refuse to ever mount a scope of any sorts on. It was built to use irons, and it has a lot better irons than any 91/30 or 44. It has a nice tight bore and loves my 178gr A-max hand loads.
 
#18
steve123 said:
Let's get specific here. Why?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for them but I can list a few of my own reasons.

1. I like the sights of the A1. Very classic yet highly functional. There are multiple apertures for different situations and it can be set from 100-2400 yds.

2. I like the feel of the original C-stocks. The reproductions feel kind of slim in the grip area.

3. Good ammo is available everywhere and for any application.

4. I like that I can get a practically new rifle. I personally want one of the Rock Ridge Machine Works Mark 1 rebuilds with the new barrel but they're kind of hard to find.

5. American pride and preference.

6. The A1 doesn't look out of place with a vintage target scope installed. I'm hoping for a Fecker 1 1/8" 8x myself.

I'm not really sure if they are inherently more accurate but they appear to be configured in a way more conducive to precision shooting. This is personal opinion and you may find other wise. I would take an A1 over an A3 but I'd take either and plan to buy both. Third choice would be a Husqvarna M38 with turned down bolt. I would consider this to be on par with a straight stocked 1903A3 in terms of shootability.
 
#19
Here's my Ross M10 E in .303 . These are extremely accurate rifles and while the military version proved unsuitable for the common soldier in trench warfare, they served with distinction as sniper rifles.

 
#20
Damn it!

Local shop had a Unertl 10X target scope and an M1903A1 with a -1 muzzle, pre war Springfield C stock. Like a menage a trois made in heaven - me, a 1903 and a Unertl - a faux M1941(sort of) will soon be my favorite WWII bolt rifle.
 
#23
The 1903A3 is tough to beat. The aperture sight you mentioned, and usually great accuracy. Lots of parts available including Criterion barrels from CMP. You said you would load for it. Try one of the many recipes with the 125 Sierra. Low recoil there. American quality and pride. Remington made, what else could one ask for?
 
#24
Today I got the opportunity to shoot a fair amount of old bolt rifles! It was a lot of fun seeing the differences in them first hand.

These are the ones I shot and I placed them in order of how they appealed to me.

7.5x55 K-31 Swiss
30-40 Krag x 2
6.5x55 Swedish Mauser
8mm Mauser 98
7.62x54R Mosin Nagant

The K-31 was like a Swiss watch as the expression goes. Being that my favorite rimfire is a 1827 Fortner biathlon rifle operating that bolt was second nature to me. By far the smoothest of the bunch.

The Krag's seemed very well made and I liked the side loaded magazine and also the magazine shut off switch for single loading.

The only thing I didn't like about the Swedish Mauser was the cock on closing but it had one of the best triggers and was the lightest recoiling.

I shot the 8mm in the competition out to 150Y offhand on 8 steel plates and tied for first. Really no complaints except recoil but it had a rubber butt pad.

I hope there are better examples of the Mosin because it sucked! Definitely the worst trigger of any gun I've ever fired. Just seemed crude compared to the others.
 
#25
Steve123, the Ross is noted for its superb accuracy. They were even declared illegal for NRA Matches in the 1920's due to their unparalleled accuracy using a new hi-velocity .280 cartridge...3000fps...unheard of at the time. The rifles received a bad rap because it was possible...with great effort...to assemble the bolt incorrectly and still allow the gun to fire with bad results. This defect was later corrected. It was used to great effect by Canadian snipers during WWI and was an outstanding target rifle for many years after, winning many matches in Bisley, England. I have two, and both shoot superbly for 100 plus year old rifles. Around 1 MOA (what gun doesn't shoot 1 MOA here on the Hide?) give or take using hand-loads in .303. FYI, here is my Anschutz Fortner from my Biathlon days and my wife's Krico 360S Biathlon, which cocks by moving the grip forward and backward.

 
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#27
K-31

Cheap ammo, cheap rifle to purchase, and they are the most accurate in my eyes. Plus the straight pull has a cool factor to it. I don't have a large amount of experiance with all the different versions, but anytime I shoot against buddies with their Mausers or Mosin's, schmidt rubin always prevails.

Not sure what type they are shooting, but from the sounds of it, they aren't Swedish Mausers. I'll have to look into one of those, they sound just as fun as the K-31.
 
#30
Victory, I don't know of a list per CMP GSM event (Garnad, Springfield, Military (other). But we know only Springfields are fired in the Springfield matches. The over all scores of the Springfields are higher then the overall scores for the "other" Military Rifles.

The CMP has awards they give out for the different events, based on the cut off scores, Gold, Silver, and Bronze. The required cutoff scores for the Garand are higher then the Military (other), the cutoff scores for the Springfields are higher then the Garands.

That policy makes it fair so all the other military rifles don't have to compete with the Springfields.

On a side note, At Camp Perry this year, a 1917 fired a record score in the Military (other) match.

I do know that Springfields win a majority of the Vintage Sniper matches. Except at CMP's Cody games last year, they were won with Garands.
 
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#31
kraigWY said:
Victory, I don't know of a list per CMP GSM event (Garnad, Springfield, Military (other). But we know only Springfields are fired in the Springfield matches. The over all scores of the Springfields are higher then the overall scores for the "other" Military Rifles.

The CMP has awards they give out for the different events, based on the cut off scores, Gold, Silver, and Bronze. The required cutoff scores for the Garand are higher then the Military (other), the cutoff scores for the Springfields are higher then the Garands.

That policy makes it fair so all the other military rifles don't have to compete with the Springfields.

On a side note, At Camp Perry this year, a 1917 fired a record score in the Military (other) match.

I do know that Springfields win a majority of the Vintage Sniper matches. Except at CMP's Cody games last year, they were won with Garands.
Click to expand...

Interesting, thank you sir.
 
#33
buffalowinter said:
Steve123, the Ross is noted for its superb accuracy. They were even declared illegal for NRA Matches in the 1920's due to their unparalleled accuracy using a new hi-velocity .280 cartridge...3000fps...unheard of at the time. The rifles received a bad rap because it was possible...with great effort...to assemble the bolt incorrectly and still allow the gun to fire with bad results. This defect was later corrected. It was used to great effect by Canadian snipers during WWI and was an outstanding target rifle for many years after, winning many matches in Bisley, England. I have two, and both shoot superbly for 100 plus year old rifles. Around 1 MOA (what gun doesn't shoot 1 MOA here on the Hide?) give or take using hand-loads in .303. FYI, here is my Anschutz Fortner from my Biathlon days and my wife's Krico 360S Biathlon, which cocks by moving the grip forward and backward.
Click to expand...


I can tell you and I have similar tastes when it comes to rifles. You have the coolest rifles, please post more pics of your other favorites!!!

I didn't know Krico had a biathlon rifle. Simply awesome and very unique, I'd love to shoot that thing! I shot a Krico running boar 22lr with a E-trigger once, a very impressive match rifle IMO. Krico is high up there in quality for sure.
 
#38
I have two Krag rifles that I really enjoy shooting. They will both shoot better than I can hold them as my son loves to show me. One is a pretty much standard rifle in about 90% condition with the original sights. The other is a lightly modified competition rifle with a globe front sight and a micrometer rear aperture sight on the on the rear receiver ring that was used as a match rifle at Camp Perry for a couple of years back in the 30's when they were still allowed. My reloads to about factory spec's but with 175 gr. Matchkings shoot quite well in both of them and the recoil is not bad at all. Lots of fun to take them out to the range, a lot of people want to come over and shoot one a couple of times ( which I am happy to let them do ).
 
#40
I like the swedes and the K31s, IMO nothing else can touch them on average.
You can still pick them up reasonable. I love 03s but they have gotten stupid expensive.
With Swedes you will have to load your own as M94 ammo is like hens teeth.
K31 would be my recommendation because you can still get G11 at reasonable prices if you keep your eyes open.
Just my personal opinion.
 
#41
Thanks for the suggestions guys!

I have a line on a 03 but I haven't looked at it yet and we have't discussed price so not sure how that all will turn out.

I know where a nice CG63 is but they want $900 for and I'm not sure I want to spend that much for it.

In a few minutes I am going to go check what all the LGS has.
 
#42
If you plan to shoot 1100yds an 03A3 won't work given it's rear sight doesn't adjust that far. I would vote for a Swiss k-31or 1911 for the longer sight radius second the 1917 enfield and third a 1903A1. I own all of the above and based this on how accurate I am with each. I will say the 1903 has the advantage of windage adjustment where the others don't and at 1100yds you'll likely need that.
 
#44
I second the K-31. Although I do like the adjustable windage sights on the 03's. I also like my 1917's. Many don't like the cock-on-close, but I do. Don't load hot and you won't need the cam of the cock-on-open to wrestle your case out of the chamber.
 
#45
For me the Enfield - fantastic, slick action. Very fast. Detachable ten round mag. Relaible, Accurate. And .303 is a round that is comfortable to shoot for long periods of time.

Next up - Mausers, very solid and dependable and accurate - only downside can be the trigger. If you get it consistent or replace, great rifles!

Of my others....I'd say the Springfield is very capable but the 30-06 gets tiring pretty quickly.

Would like to try a K31 but never had the opportunity.
 
#46
My experience with Mosin-Nagant 91/30's is that they can be corked/wrapped, and will shoot well enough; 2-3 MOA average at 100yd with the spamcan surplus (corrosive) 150gr Light Ball ammo. Triggers, bores, heck, everything varies with them, except for the part where they are a durable and reliable as a sledge hammer.

If you use PPU factory 150gr SP, the fliers tend to come closer to the main group, and the load is quite useable for deer. If you handload the PPU brass with a decent primer and HDY 150gr '303 caliber' SP Interlocks over IMR-4064, accuracy can be tuned better. My SWAG load is 49.0gr and it shoots moderately well, with almost no flyers.

These rifles tend to come from ready-to-issue storage, being arsenal refurb'ed after WWII.

They will often come with counterbored muzzles, which effectively moves the crown internally up to an inch or two closer to the chamber, to compensate for cleaning rod wear. This is often where the inaccuracy comes from, by shortening the bore length and consequent bore transit time. Also overlooked is that looking at the muzzle is therefore not the same as looking at the crown, and that decades of storage, etc., may invisibly degrade that internal crown. I suspect that finding a drill bit with a snug fit in the counterbore, and using it to lightly chase/dress the counterbore's internal face could have results similar to recrowning the barrel. Maybe, maybe not; I intend to try this before engaging in serious load development.

I will also therefore warn you (probably to no avail) that many 'improvements' are available for the M-N, and that many of them (scope mounts in particular) are not rugged enough to be reliable, and/or place the optical axis so high above the bore as to make a chin weld a real possibility. There are better/cheaper ways. I would recommend the 'accurizing kit' with shims and wraps sold on this forum as being both reasonable and having a high probability of being a worthwhile improvement.

Digging deeper, one may incrementally turn their fair-to-middlin' proletariat conscript's implement into a richly lined silk purse, but it will always have the core characteristics of the original sow's ear. The ultimate costs may exceed the original rifle's price by several multiples, and tend to overload my 'suspiciously excessive consumption' gauge.

I have owned the M1903A1 and Ishapore Enfield No 1 MKIII(A) 7.62x51 NATO, and shot the Finn M-39. They are all great rifles, but these days I own 91/30's, period. The others make better investments than fun shooters, and I liquidated them many years ago.

Greg
 
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#47
If my Swede could some how magically become equipped with the 03a3 rear sight and a thinner front sight blade it would be military surplus nirvana in my opinion.
 
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#48
Good news guy's!

I made a deal on the K31 and a 91/30.

Due to rain and a swift change of plans to go to another location I put 4 rounds through the K31 at 600Y today. I adjusted the rear sight to 6, let the first one rip, spotter called a miss just over the top of a 18" wide steel, I corrected and hit it with the other 3 shots. I looooove that rifle!~

Got the steel on the 6th shot with the 91/30. Actually this particular Mosin has a halfway decent trigger and it's a pretty clean one.
 
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#49
1.jpgI have two k 98's one is an original sniper rifle made in 43 the other is a late war transitional rifle dated 45
 
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