Where are all the employees ?

[308pirate]

Raising the price? Depends on your market and how competitive it is. Ask Facebook or Chevrolet.

OK, three more ways. That was one which we have used but I forgot to mention. I don't care what FB or automakers can or can't do since we don't make commodity products like they do.

There are other two: increasing output per unit of labor without constantly reducing head count and negotiating better prices for material and subcontract inputs.

Please don't tell me they can't be done. We've done it.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

I worked for a tire/alignment shop,recently as an in between to keep some money coming in, had worked for them 15 years ago and every time I came in for tires, one of the long time employees would offer me a job.

Coming back as an adult I see things much differently. Boss/Owner man leaves for lunch generally 2 1/2 hr lunch, goes and sits on his boat, drinks 2-3 beers, smokes a joint(he has his medical card)and comes back into work lit up. Generally by 4:00 his buzz has wore off and I don’t think he realizes what a dickhead he acts like. Has had the same building for 40years renting it. Currently pays $4000 a month in rent. Yet wants to under pay employees that actually do the labor part. Pays his wife a salary, she doesn’t do shit. Then bitches about the government regulations, taxes, insurance and what not as his reasoning for not paying more. Mother Fucker you are the one throwing away $4K a month in rent when you should have bought a building and property years ago. You are the one paying your wife to do basically nothing.

Not all owners are like this, but its an example of a demotivating work place who has the same complaint, cant find and or keep good skilled employees. Because skilled people can find greener pastures.

 

[brianf]

This is the simple explanation I gave to every employee that asked me for a raise.
E: Hey boss, I need a raise.
Me: I am paying you $15/hr. After paying Fed payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, workers compensation insurance, general liability insurance, vehicle and vehicle maintenance and insurance and a few other things. You cost me about $35 per hour. That's $ 70,000 per year. At 10% profit margin I have to come up with $700,000 of business just to employ you.
E: Yeah but I got bills and shit!
Me: Maybe you shouldn't have bought something you could not afford?
E: Man, you're making a killing and I ain't getting shit.
Me: I didn't hire you to give you a job so you could keep up with the Joneses. I hired you to make me money. I have ten of you that piss off for an hour or more every day. That's 10 hours a day and 50 hours a week. That's 2500 hours a year which costs me over $80,000 per year. How much of my time do you think it takes to drum up business for you and the guys to piss it away?
You want a raise? Get your ass to work and get your buddies to quit fucking off and I will give you a raise.
BTW, you just cost me $15 explaining it to you and every dollar you fuckers waist costs me time with my family.

theyll never get it...stop trying

i think its known i "make pills", ive chimed in before

350+ people several buildings...the whole nine

yes i make more than 15$ a hour and drive some cool cars


first, keep your eyes in your wallet not in mine..i dont look in yours do i

if your worth more, leave my business and go get more money somewhere else

if not stop whining and do a good job so when your employee review comes up your the one who gets the raise not the guy next to you. i say it to everyone who gets hired and anyone who leaves.

we arent friends we are friendly, i know you only laugh at my jokes because im your boss, and i know you curse me when i walk away

i did it too when i was younger

we only know each other because we need money, if not i would have never met you and you wouldnt have met me

BUT we are on the same team rowing in the same direction because if the company fails...we both dont have a job



leaving the workforce and skillsets out of it, and all the math Darn explained above (which is correct)


being a owner:

raise your hand if you want a line of credit that has a PERSONAL guarantee that means your house, car, back accounts, kids bank accounts etc

by the way that line of credit is X0,000,000.00$... we arent talking a second mortgage for 150K

then add in the payables for materials which ownership is on the hook for

just for shits and giggles add in that supply chain is fucked so im buying what i can when i can at a higher price (killing the margins on the product) and a uncertain delivery time (killing the production schedule pissing off customers) ... but your still paid the same every week correct?

"well the owners just go bankrupt and dont pay anything"...thats not the way it works when you make more than 30$ a hour.

ive put my whole life into this business, the employee uses me a stepping stone to make more money ladder somewhere else.

which is fine they should, but they dont have skin in the game like i do

i cannot and do not expect them to care like i do, again thats fine

if they want the same paycheck.. quit my place and start your own and get all the that comes with it

no one is stopping you except your the level of stress and work ethic your willing to put in.

believe me it was a lot easier when i was on the floor literally, working on equipment because i couldn't afford better crap.. not new... just not total pieces of shit

now im worried about writing checks for $350,000 A DAY, yes A DAY, and where that money is coming from

to the guys in back a snow storm hits and they get the day off... "yeah this is great i get a 3 day weekend"

to the owner...i just lost .5% production (250 working days a year...100%) for the year
that 350,000$ in bills are still due for materials that i bought 2 months ago.

now i dont even have the production/sales because of that snow day to cover those bills... hope you have 350K sitting around to pay with, if not your not getting materials next time

oh, and i now have to pay OT to make up the production capacity gap, which makes the next few days of production less efficient and profitable kicking the can down the road.

and if that production is not able to be recouped because some equipment is a bottle neck and is maxed out in capacity ...that 350,000$ is GONE...never to be seen again...comes out of the business not your paychecks


someone used 1979 for reference:

who in 1979:
had 2 cars, possibly one lease
had cable and if they did had movie packages
had steak not chicken
had a few cell phones (a few really nice HI-FI stereos back then same money $1000)
ummm NO ONE

now who:
rolled paperlogs for heat because my father couldnt afford heating oil at times
took furniture from our neighbors garbage pile and fixed it up
what kid today is wearing hand me down clothes to school...not out to play
EVEYONE myself included

now people are pissed off that they arent getting paid enough but they have a decent cellphone and plan for 50$ a month, so does their wife and kid

my fathers boss told him that if my pregnant mother called him again during work hours he's fired... get back to work. guess what she didnt call until she went into labor.

do that today and the employee will go complain on the internet that their boss is a dick and prob sue them and win

want more money, take the risk if you think its worth it

want a raise, be the first guy back from break and lunch not walk out of the lunchroom when the bell rings
the bell is for you to start the equipment not to get out of your chair

350 people stealing only 1 minute 2-3 times a day = 1000 minutes a day

thats 5000 minutes a week = 83 hours

83 hours X 52 weeks = 4100 hours

4100 x 20$ a hour = $80,000 dollars a year just in payroll never mind the equipment that im paying for not producing and making money....for being lazy out of breaktime for 1 minute.

next time the boss walks through the lunch room at the bell and no one is moved yet

write a check for 80,000 and tell him to leave you got it covered

so when employees take advantage or fuck around, yeah the boss is a asshole


i dont want to be a dick and i actually try to treat my employees well, everyone has a family and their own shit going on

but thats what i go to bed with every night, as well as every other owner of a business...employees dont and never will understand the stresses involved.

 

[lariat]

theyll never get it...stop trying

i think its known i "make pills", ive chimed in before

350+ people several buildings...the whole nine

yes i make more than 15$ a hour and drive some cool cars


first, keep your eyes in your wallet not in mine..i dont look in yours do i

if your worth more, leave my business and go get more money somewhere else

if not stop whining and do a good job so when your employee review comes up your the one who gets the raise not the guy next to you. i say it to everyone who gets hired and anyone who leaves.

we arent friends we are friendly, i know you only laugh at my jokes because im your boss, and i know you curse me when i walk away

i did it too when i was younger

we only know each other because we need money, if not i would have never met you and you wouldnt have met me

BUT we are on the same team rowing in the same direction because if the company fails...we both dont have a job



leaving the workforce and skillsets out of it, and all the math Darn explained above (which is correct)


being a owner:

raise your hand if you want a line of credit that has a PERSONAL guarantee that means your house, car, back accounts, kids bank accounts etc

by the way that line of credit is X0,000,000.00$... we arent talking a second mortgage for 150K

then add in the payables for materials which ownership is on the hook for

just for shits and giggles add in that supply chain is fucked so im buying what i can when i can at a higher price (killing the margins on the product) and a uncertain delivery time (killing the production schedule pissing off customers) ... but your still paid the same every week correct?

"well the owners just go bankrupt and dont pay anything"...thats not the way it works when you make more than 30$ a hour.

ive put my whole life into this business, the employee uses me a stepping stone to make more money ladder somewhere else.

which is fine they should, but they dont have skin in the game like i do

i cannot and do not expect them to care like i do, again thats fine

if they want the same paycheck.. quit my place and start your own and get all the that comes with it

no one is stopping you except your the level of stress and work ethic your willing to put in.

believe me it was a lot easier when i was on the floor literally, working on equipment because i couldn't afford better crap.. not new... just not total pieces of shit

now im worried about writing checks for $350,000 A DAY, yes A DAY, and where that money is coming from

to the guys in back a snow storm hits and they get the day off... "yeah this is great i get a 3 day weekend"

to the owner...i just lost .5% production (250 working days a year...100%) for the year
that 350,000$ in bills are still due for materials that i bought 2 months ago.

now i dont even have the production/sales because of that snow day to cover those bills... hope you have 350K sitting around to pay with, if not your not getting materials next time

oh, and i now have to pay OT to make up the production capacity gap, which makes the next few days of production less efficient and profitable kicking the can down the road.

and if that production is not able to be recouped because some equipment is a bottle neck and is maxed out in capacity ...that 350,000$ is GONE...never to be seen again...comes out of the business not your paychecks


someone used 1979 for reference:

who in 1979:
had 2 cars, possibly one lease
had cable and if they did had movie packages
had steak not chicken
had a few cell phones (a few really nice HI-FI stereos back then same money $1000)
ummm NO ONE

now who:
rolled paperlogs for heat because my father couldnt afford heating oil at times
took furniture from our neighbors garbage pile and fixed it up
what kid today is wearing hand me down clothes to school...not out to play
EVEYONE myself included

now people are pissed off that they arent getting paid enough but they have a decent cellphone and plan for 50$ a month, so does their wife and kid

my fathers boss told him that if my pregnant mother called him again during work hours he's fired... get back to work. guess what she didnt call until she went into labor.

do that today and the employee will go complain on the internet that their boss is a dick and prob sue them and win

want more money, take the risk if you think its worth it

want a raise, be the first guy back from break and lunch not walk out of the lunchroom when the bell rings
the bell is for you to start the equipment not to get out of your chair

350 people stealing only 1 minute 2-3 times a day = 1000 minutes a day

thats 5000 minutes a week = 83 hours

83 hours X 52 weeks = 4100 hours

4100 x 20$ a hour = $80,000 dollars a year just in payroll never mind the equipment that im paying for not producing and making money....for being lazy out of breaktime for 1 minute.

next time the boss walks through the lunch room at the bell and no one is moved yet

write a check for 80,000 and tell him to leave you got it covered

so when employees take advantage or fuck around, yeah the boss is a asshole


i dont want to be a dick and i actually try to treat my employees well, everyone has a family and their own shit going on

but thats what i go to bed with every night, as well as every other owner of a business...employees dont and never will understand the stresses involved.

You won the internet today. Truths told in an easily understandable fashion. To not comprehend this post is to be unwilling to.

 

[deersniper]

Because it's not the way I'm wired, and because I enjoy the irony of being accused by a farmer of taking government handouts.

Lol I wish they would end all subsidies and crop
Insurance.


If you think they do that to help the farmers you are less intelligent than previously thought.



All about removing risk so we can have more corporate style farming. It’s all about cheap food policy and keeping the plebes fat and happy

 

[E. Bryant]

@E. Bryant,

Are you involved in a repair industry? I explained examples of overhead, and why labor rates are $120 or more per hour. You just conveniently dismissed it as me making a blanket statement of "overhead". I know that my employer pays over $40k per month just to keep the doors open and make payroll. It's a small company, less than 10 employees, and that kind of money doesn't come from thin air.

I repair heavy equipment and tractors, that shit isn't cheap to buy or maintain. I think the current labor rate isn't enough quite honestly. The manufacturer forces us to buy the diagnostic software (with a monthly subscription), the service manuals, the shop must buy special tools as part of the required tool list to keep a certification, and none of that is cheap. Not to mention the required training every year, and we have to travel to go to these schools.

I thought that I was clear - my issue is not that overhead exists, or that employers have to cover it. The problem is how this reality is communicated to the mechanics, which can often be summarized as "shut up and go back to work, and by the way you also need to buy a few grand of new tools and move your shit from your own van to the new one off the clock". These employers want the wrench-turners to be smarter than the engineers who built the truck, and be salesmen and account service reps when dealing with the customers, and then get treated like a 2nd-grader when it comes to the economics of how the business works. Meanwhile, they've got debt the size of a car loan to pay for the tools they're expected to bring to the job.

I'm not in the repair industry, although several friends are, my dad worked as a diesel mechanic and ran his own shop for a while, and I sit on the industry advisory board for a local school alongside the owners and managers of several independent and factory shops. I've also spent enough time with the wrench-turners doing my job as a product engineer to get a solid earful of what works and what doesn't, and that includes everything from their gripes with the boys to my inability to find my own ass with both hands and a flashlight.

If you guys are communicating all this stuff clearly and consistently and the message just isn't being heard, maybe that's on the employees, and I don't know how to help them. But I know how this industry has treated people for a long time, and so does everyone else on the street, and unfortunately that perception is going to take a while to reverse.

 

[XTREM HTR16]

Young engineers these days don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground.

However, those that learn by walking through a water or wastewater plant and talk to the operator, and listen to the contractor when they build it, will quickly know things like you can’t put an 18” flanged DI pipe running 12” from a wall because you can’t turn a wrench on the bolts. Those that get the practical shit and do a good job get raises, bonuses, and ownership offers (we‘re a S corp). Those that don’t, move every 2-3 years….

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Young engineers these days don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground.

However, those that learn by walking through a water or wastewater plant and talk to the operator, and listen to the contractor when they build it, will quickly know things like you can’t put an 18” flanged DI pipe running 12” from a wall because you can’t turn a wrench on the bolts. Those that get the practical shit and do a good job get raises, bonuses, and ownership offers (we‘re a S corp). Those that don’t, move every 2-3 years….

You bring back memories of my years building power plants.... I would get a "Summer Intern" who would follow me around for a while and get bored... At that point the "Real Education" started for a very few... The rest disappeared. Now, 20 years later I get email with their official title under their name - Project Manager, Regional Manager, Owner of Engineering Consulting Company. Those boys are running Billion Dollar jobs..... It never took me long to pick the one who would run with the ball... That is the one us old timer's need to focus on. I am retired now, with a nice shop. I have one local kid that is still in high school I am working with... He is the 1 in a 1,000.....

 

[TurboTrout]

Because it's not the way I'm wired, and because I enjoy the irony of being accused by a farmer of taking government handouts.

Do you also pay insurance premiums and refuse to file a claim if you suffer damage?

If I had my way the gov would fuck off, especially when it comes to money they didn’t earn, I’d rather keep 100% of the fruits of my labors and he responsible for saving incase I get fired, and saving for retirement, etc, I’d get a MUCH better ROI doing it privately, but alas I don’t have that choice lest I desire getting into a shoot out with gov looters, so I’m sure as fuck going to use the benefits I WAY OVERPAID for

 

[Sean the Nailer]

You bring back memories of my years building power plants.... I would get a "Summer Intern" who would follow me around for a while and get bored... At that point the "Real Education" started for a very few... The rest disappeared. Now, 20 years later I get email with their official title under their name - Project Manager, Regional Manager, Owner of Engineering Consulting Company. Those boys are running Billion Dollar jobs..... It never took me long to pick the one who would run with the ball... That is the one us old timer's need to focus on. I am retired now, with a nice shop. I have one local kid that is still in high school I am working with... He is the 1 in a 1,000.....

Passing on the knowledge..... good job! (see what I did there?)

As I've stated before, I'm a Millwright. Started that schooling back in '90. Learned a few things over the years, and there are a few who come to me to get things done.

There are so many that aren't qualified to stir a coffee. And every once in a while, you come across someone whom actually is interested in what you're doing, and they want to learn more about it/do it, too. Those, I teach.

Initiative, it matters.

 

[Cherodjr]

I recently went back to work full time at age 72. Not hard work and not a lot of money, but it allows me to buy nice firearms and scopes!

 

[gigamortis]

You know, I've been in manufacturing for a little bit longer than you.

In that time I've worked in places that made airplanes (including processes like sheetmetal stamping, pickling, passivating, alodine, and a bunch of other nasty shit), vinyl windows, oil filters, automobile transmissions, and electric motors (including an aluminum foundry for casting SC rotors).

So some mildly dangerous processes. I've also worked in Uncle Sam's nuclear industry and sailed some of his ships halfway around the world. So I've been around shit that will kill you quick.

I'm never impressed by people who bitch about safety rules.

I've been in the electrical/mechanical industrial trades for 35 years now. Safety through the years has evolved into micromanaging each work task in order to keep the lowest common denominator of intelligence from hurting themselves. This is what the pro cheap labor Chamber of Commerce types of management have created.

Its not that I am anti-safety, but I am for real safety. A safety program will never be able to legislate against the stupidity of workers that shouldn't be in an industrial setting to start with. Hiring the cheapest labor just ends up costing a company more money to cover workers comp claims.

I was fortunate enough to get into an apprenticeship right out of high school. Apprenticeships have practically become extinct in the past 30 years. Companies have relied on sniping talent from other companies instead of investing in apprenticeships to keep their ranks replenished. I was always told growing up that I had better find a good company to settle in with because 50 year old workers won't be able to get hired anywhere else. That theory has gone out the window now as the generations of working class people behind me have zero interest in making a living with their hands. I've gotten offers from companies recently offering 20% more pay than the last job I walked away from, but they require a mask or the vax. I keep telling them, drop the virus bullshit and I will consider their offer. I don't care if they double the pay, if masks, vax, or periodic virus testing is required, I'll just sit home.

 

[coachtech]

Being a "technician" is not the same job as "shop owner." Any individual with enough sense and ability to be an "A" level technician, can see that the ROI being a tech is not worth the investment. Same skills can yield a much better career in a decent sized market.

I have been in the trade for thirty years, college educated, continuous training. I recommend it to no one because society does not value the work. I charge $150 an hour(solo), and its not enough. Price elasticity of demand dictates what the market will bear.

I do it to stay physically/mentally strong. I have been punching steel(and shooting) for 30 years, bring it on commies....

 

[Mater2009]

Maybe you could place ads in different spots instead of hanging out on the Hide. Just saying.

 

[Bigfatcock]

It’s definitely an interesting change right now. I wonder who will blink first? Employers or workers?

It’s interesting for sure. Time is the most valuable asset we own, and it looks like the job market is trying to find its equilibrium. How much is 50 hours of your life a week worth for to you to sell to someone else?

Because you are literal selling your labor/life for money. That’s the way I look at it.

It’s funny. I’d damn sure flip a cheeseburger for $15 an hour but wouldn’t turn a wrench for less than $50 an hour.

I don’t mean that in an insulting manner, but the way I look at it a 300% increase in effort and work for a 100% pay increase isn’t worth it to me. Not to mention the tooling and education costs to go with it.

To me $15 an hour to flip cheeseburgers is worth it. And extra $5 more an hour to be a restaurant manager is not worth the pay raise when you account for the added headache of being a manager.

 

[deersniper]

Maybe you could place ads in different spots instead of hanging out on the Hide. Just saying.

I’m all ears. Any suggestions ?

Craiglsit , Facebook news papers tried them all

Have gotten some real winners from both ends of the spectrum off CL

 

[coachtech]

At $15 an hour, you couldn't afford me, or the vehicles I work. Just sayin...

 

[Bigfatcock]

So glad I never wasted money on college, lol.

 

[BCP]

I’m all ears. Any suggestions ?

Craiglsit , Facebook news papers tried them all

Have gotten some real winners from both ends of the spectrum off CL

I've never had a problem hiring people for skilled trades (masonry, framing, finish work etc). But then a lot of what I do is just talking to people and making friends with them, building connections so if I hire someone they are already vetted.

Never had a problem hiring people for basic stuff either, cleanup, cutting limbs off trees, that sort of thing.

Literally hardest part is keeping an eye on them so they don't get hurt, most of them want to work a little too hard and chainsaws/nailguns do not play nice...

 

[HiDesertELR]

It’s interesting for sure. Time is the most valuable asset we own, and it looks like the job market is trying to find its equilibrium. How much is 50 hours of your life a week worth for to you to sell to someone else?

Because you are literal selling your labor/life for money. That’s the way I look at it.

This is what you need to teach your kids, and anyone that will listen.

And DEBT will make you a SLAVE.

 

[gigamortis]

I had my stint at being an auto dealership flat rate tech for 5 years back in the early 90s. Back then, the door rate the customer paid was $48/hr. The top techs like myself got 1/3 of that door rate. I was told by some of the old timers in the shop that back in the 70s and 80s, the top techs got 1/2 the door rate when it was only $20-30/hr, and the shop owners still had enough money to put fuel in their yachts every weekend. Now, dealerships in my area are getting $140 door rate and top techs are getting $40-$45 per flat rate hour, so that's less than 1/3 the labor rate now. They are all screaming for technicians these days, but cry a river when its time to raise technician pay when they just raised the door rate. The only way I got a raise during my dealership days was to drag up and head to another dealership that just lost a tech. It didn't take me long to find out that is exactly why toolboxes have wheels.

During my time as a dealer tech, I started to specialize in automatic transmissions. Now my specialty working for myself is street/strip performance transmission builds that is just bench work only. The only way I would ever go back to working for a shop again is for 1/2 the door rate just like it was when it was making shop owners filthy rich back in the 70s and 80s. I just chuckle when shop owners say they gotta pay overhead and bills out of the leftover door rate after paying the techs. Guess what? Techs have bills to pay too. Pay up or lose the whole job to someone else that is getting paid better. Its called a job MARKET for a reason.

 

[HiDesertELR]

I had my stint at being an auto dealership flat rate tech for 5 years back in the early 90s. Back then, the door rate the customer paid was $48/hr. The top techs like myself got 1/3 of that door rate. I was told by some of the old timers in the shop that back in the 70s and 80s, the top techs got 1/2 the door rate when it was only $20-30/hr, and the shop owners still had enough money to put fuel in their yachts every weekend. Now, dealerships in my area are getting $140 door rate and top techs are getting $40-$45 per flat rate hour, so that's less than 1/3 the labor rate now. They are all screaming for technicians these days, but cry a river when its time to raise technician pay when they just raised the door rate. The only way I got a raise during my dealership days was to drag up and head to another dealership that just lost a tech. It didn't take me long to find out that is exactly why toolboxes have wheels.

During my time as a dealer tech, I started to specialize in automatic transmissions. Now my specialty working for myself is street/strip performance transmission builds that is just bench work only. The only way I would ever to back to working for a shop again is for 1/2 the door rate just like it was when it was making shop owners filthy rich back in the 70s and 80s. I just chuckle when shop owners say they gotta pay overhead and bills out of the leftover door rate after paying the techs. Guess what? Techs have bills to pay too. Pay up or lose the whole job to someone else that is getting paid better. Its called a job MARKET for a reason.

Yep... years ago I was working for one of the local engineering firms. The office had a "recycle" policy that had us take one-sided copies and place them face down in a box next to the copy machine.

Well, the bookkeeper decided to run her yearly reports, and then placed those one-sided copies back into the magic money-saving box.

Don't you know who ran a bunch of raw coordinate prints (me), and found out what everyone was getting paid, their billable rate, and the markup.

The owner was paying, literally every single employee one-fifth to one-eighth of what they were being charged out at! Standard markups for the industry at the time was 3:1 - you got billed out at $75/hr, you got paid $25/hr, or thereabouts.

The owner decided to have the office Christmas party at his house (dumbest idea ever). Let's show the employees what their blood, sweat and tears got - 40 foot siding boards helicoptered in, 17 televisions throughout, hand hewn flagstone wall to wall, etc etc. Yes, the owner gave us the grand tour (again, dumbest idea ever).

I walked out of the grand tour early, and some co-workers followed me, sensing a disturbance in the force, lol.

"What's the deal dude?"

I answered "Seriously? Motherfucker is paying us 1/5 to 1/8 of our billable rates, parading us around his mountain chalet and bragging about all the shit he has, and you want to ask what MY problem is?"

Ooops - did I let the cat out of the bag?

Needless to say, the following week, I marched my ass into his office, and we were on good terms, so, he was happy to see me. Told him, "OK, time to pay up sucka" (OK, I didn't call him "sucka", but my face did). We haggled a bit, but I ended up with closer to the 3:1 than I was expecting.

I kept up the regular "march in" until he told me, pretty sternly too, "Look, you're the second highest paid person in the office, right behind the Vice President. This is my house, stop telling me how to run it..."

After that I got head-hunted and left, which may or may not have been a great decision. But... when everyone that worked there found out what I knew about the mark-ups, the mass exodus started, and he was left with an empty office building, and retired as a "consultant".

He never forgave me, but, whatever.

You have to come to your own rescue most of the time was the lesson I learned from all of that.

 

[deersniper]

rate. I was told by some of the old timers in the shop that back in the 70s and 80s, the top techs got 1/2 the door rate when it was only $20-30/hr, and the shop owners still had enough money to put fuel in their yachts every weekend.

Do you think the number and cost of overhead items is the same as 40-50 years ago ?

 

[308pirate]

Its not that I am anti-safety, but I am for real safety. A safety program will never be able to legislate against the stupidity of workers that shouldn't be in an industrial setting to start with. Hiring the cheapest labor just ends up costing a company more money to cover workers comp clclaims.

My experience doesn't track with that. So we'll just leave it at that.

 

[deersniper]

Ahh. The shit heads aren’t working and the .gov parasites are making more

 

[308pirate]

I had my stint at being an auto dealership flat rate tech for 5 years back in the early 90s. Back then, the door rate the customer paid was $48/hr. The top techs like myself got 1/3 of that door rate. I was told by some of the old timers in the shop that back in the 70s and 80s, the top techs got 1/2 the door rate when it was only $20-30/hr, and the shop owners still had enough money to put fuel in their yachts every weekend. Now, dealerships in my area are getting $140 door rate and top techs are getting $40-$45 per flat rate hour, so that's less than 1/3 the labor rate now. They are all screaming for technicians these days, but cry a river when its time to raise technician pay when they just raised the door rate. The only way I got a raise during my dealership days was to drag up and head to another dealership that just lost a tech. It didn't take me long to find out that is exactly why toolboxes have wheels.

During my time as a dealer tech, I started to specialize in automatic transmissions. Now my specialty working for myself is street/strip performance transmission builds that is just bench work only. The only way I would ever go back to working for a shop again is for 1/2 the door rate just like it was when it was making shop owners filthy rich back in the 70s and 80s. I just chuckle when shop owners say they gotta pay overhead and bills out of the leftover door rate after paying the techs. Guess what? Techs have bills to pay too. Pay up or lose the whole job to someone else that is getting paid better. Its called a job MARKET for a reason.

What are the annual fixed and variables costs to run an auto repair shop with six to eight bays in your town? Assume five technicians and one supervisor.

 

[gigamortis]

What are the annual fixed and variables costs to run an auto repair shop with six to eight bays in your town? Assume five technicians and one supervisor.

If 5 techs get 1/2 the door rate per flat rate hour, the shop owner is getting 5 times a single technician's take to run the shop. The more techs a shop has, the more bank the owner makes.

 

[hankpac]

Self-check at Walmart: Everything is half price or Free Today.

 

[308pirate]

If 5 techs get 1/2 the door rate per flat rate hour, the shop owner is getting 5 times a single technician's take to run the shop. The more techs a shop has, the more bank the owner makes.

Not only do you not know the answer to my question, you also don't know the relationship between fixed and variable labor costs, nor the relationships between costs, revenues, and profits.

Thanks for displaying an amazing amount of ignorance about how a business actually works. Now I'm sure I can disregard anything else you say on the topic.

If someone with your attitude would question how I run my business you would be fired on the spot.

 

[tomcatmv]

Hey, I'm looking for a job in central Texas (Temple/Belton/Killeen or maybe Waco) area in just about anything relative to construction sales/estimating or anything related if y'all know of or have any openings. I'm on Medicare so don't need or want any benefits.

 

[gigamortis]

Not only do you not know the answer to my question, you also don't know the relationship between fixed and variable labor costs, nor the relationships between costs, revenues, and profits.

Thanks for displaying an amazing amount of ignorance about how a business actually works. Now I'm sure I can disregard anything else you say on the topic.

If someone with your attitude would question how I run my business you would be fired on the spot.

No offense taken, but the way I would perceive you as treating employees, I wouldn't work for you in the first place. I could care less about the specifics of how a shop owner spends his take. I spend my take wisely as should any business owner that is more interested in making a steady living instead of the occasional killing. I have gotten up and walked out of many a company new hire orientation when I saw one BS flag after another get revealed - especially when they whip out a non-compete clause. I'm the one with the skill set in high demand, so if you don't hire me, someone else will. I run my own one man shop now, so I don't need some smoke and mirrors filled financial explanation of how a front office justifies a hugely lopsided intake based off of my skills and labor. We can agree to disagree. I'm not the one that's going to go hungry, that's for sure.

 

[deersniper]

If 5 techs get 1/2 the door rate per flat rate hour, the shop owner is getting 5 times a single technician's take to run the shop. The more techs a shop has, the more bank the owner makes.

I think he’s talking about you.


Lol it would be funny if it wasn’t so retarded.

Durr hurr he pretty much clears 5x what the techs make

 

[BCP]

I recommend it to no one because society does not value the work

Oh yeah I get that all the time. If you work in "The Trades" they think you're a neanderthal.

 

[TexPatriot]

I don't have that wiring but there are times when I wish that I did. They literally did this shit to us on purpose.

A fellow boomer and I were talking about this 30 minutes ago. The conspiracy nuts, gun range owners and people that hung around gun ranges were warning about whats happening now since 1989, to a fucking T.

'A bat got loose in Wuhan and now you need to take this emergency mystery shot.' *snort.

 

[gigamortis]

I think he’s talking about you.


Lol it would be funny if it wasn’t so retarded.

Durr hurr he pretty much clears 5x what the techs make

I never implied that the owner CLEARS 5x what the technician gets. The owner has expenses to cover out of that just as the technician has expenses at home to pay out of his take. Both sides need to learn to live within their means.

I refuse to participate in a grossly lopsided labor arrangement when it is my body and time on the line just to make someone else filthy rich. That's pretty much right there next to the definition of slavery. A truly successful company will have both workers and the management satisfied enough to show eagerness to come to work to get the job done. A company with happy employees and management will far outlast a company that is run with an "us vs. them" attitude.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Oh yeah I get that all the time. If you work in "The Trades" they think you're a neanderthal.

All my buddies who went in trades out of high school do very well for themselves.

A friend of mine years ago quit his job and started a handy man business when he saw the demand thanks to people going into the trades dropping. Makes 25% more per year than he did at his job, and God help your wallet if you need him in an emergency to fix something on the weekend, lol.

He’s gotten calls to change lightbulbs, lol. You know how much he charges to change a lightbulb?

 

[BCP]

Self-check at Walmart: Everything is half price or Free Today.

When I worked retail a zillion years ago the manager of the store would always have these printouts, warnings and meetings about how much "bottom bagging" (IE you are ringing up a customer and something in the bottom of the bag gets missed) was costing the store.

Self checkout with one elderly lady watching stuff? Shit disappearing left and right I bet.

 

[Bigfatcock]

Anyone who does quality work is backed up for a hot minute. I’ve been trying to steal contractors to do new siding on one of my houses, and it’s been hard. They’re booked and at good prices too!

Same to put up a fence, extend a drive way, and a couple other projects I have no interest in doing myself.

Same thing for just about any trade.

 

[Beefmanne]

This entire thread shows why I have never hired an employee dumber than me and why they need me for a job.

 

[308pirate]

No offense taken, but the way I would perceive you as treating employees, I wouldn't work for you in the first place. I could care less about the specifics of how a shop owner spends his take. I spend my take wisely as should any business owner that is more interested in making a steady living instead of the occasional killing. I have gotten up and walked out of many a company new hire orientation when I saw one BS flag after another get revealed - especially when they whip out a non-compete clause. I'm the one with the skill set in high demand, so if you don't hire me, someone else will. I run my own one man shop now, so I don't need some smoke and mirrors filled financial explanation of how a front office justifies a hugely lopsided intake based off of my skills and labor. We can agree to disagree. I'm not the one that's going to go hungry, that's for sure.

You have the right to not work for whoever you don't want.

You don't have the right to dictate what your "take" should be to the one who is risking it ALL to provide you with employment.

 

[308pirate]

He’s gotten calls to change lightbulbs, lol.

Why do you think this video had to be made?



In fact, there are videos after fucking videos on youtube on how to read a tape fucking measure.........

Annnnndddddd...............

 

[Bigfatcock]

Wow.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Yep... years ago I was working for one of the local engineering firms. The office had a "recycle" policy that had us take one-sided copies and place them face down in a box next to the copy machine.

Well, the bookkeeper decided to run her yearly reports, and then placed those one-sided copies back into the magic money-saving box.

Don't you know who ran a bunch of raw coordinate prints (me), and found out what everyone was getting paid, their billable rate, and the markup.

The owner was paying, literally every single employee one-fifth to one-eighth of what they were being charged out at! Standard markups for the industry at the time was 3:1 - you got billed out at $75/hr, you got paid $25/hr, or thereabouts.

The owner decided to have the office Christmas party at his house (dumbest idea ever). Let's show the employees what their blood, sweat and tears got - 40 foot siding boards helicoptered in, 17 televisions throughout, hand hewn flagstone wall to wall, etc etc. Yes, the owner gave us the grand tour (again, dumbest idea ever).

I walked out of the grand tour early, and some co-workers followed me, sensing a disturbance in the force, lol.

"What's the deal dude?"

I answered "Seriously? Motherfucker is paying us 1/5 to 1/8 of our billable rates, parading us around his mountain chalet and bragging about all the shit he has, and you want to ask what MY problem is?"

Ooops - did I let the cat out of the bag?

Needless to say, the following week, I marched my ass into his office, and we were on good terms, so, he was happy to see me. Told him, "OK, time to pay up sucka" (OK, I didn't call him "sucka", but my face did). We haggled a bit, but I ended up with closer to the 3:1 than I was expecting.

I kept up the regular "march in" until he told me, pretty sternly too, "Look, you're the second highest paid person in the office, right behind the Vice President. This is my house, stop telling me how to run it..."

After that I got head-hunted and left, which may or may not have been a great decision. But... when everyone that worked there found out what I knew about the mark-ups, the mass exodus started, and he was left with an empty office building, and retired as a "consultant".

He never forgave me, but, whatever.

You have to come to your own rescue most of the time was the lesson I learned from all of that.

That has happened at every engineering firm I've been at. The ripples from those mistakes reverberate for 20 years after.

 

[HiDesertELR]

You have the right to not work for whoever you don't want.

You don't have the right to dictate what your "take" should be to the one who is risking it ALL to provide you with employment.

Fair point...

I'd submit however, that not many entrepreneurs start a business to provide employment to others.

You start your own business to create your own wealth. I know I did.

Anyone I hire however, usually gets paid very handsomely. They're stunned, and at the same time, are very eager to show up and do an exceptional job. My only caveat to them is - you charge for me for the hours you're worth every penny I'm paying you. No more, no less. It's always worked out, because they're extremely grateful for the wages I pay.

Granted, I don't hire long-term employees, so I don't have that experience and overhead. I'll defer to your knowledge and experience on that one.

Post edit: Also, my work doesn't involve a lot of regulatory agencies, i.e. EPA, etc. Anyone that has to deal with those SOB's.... condolences.

 

[gigamortis]

You have the right to not work for whoever you don't want.

You don't have the right to dictate what your "take" should be to the one who is risking it ALL to provide you with employment.

The market demand for certain skills will dictate the wages. A lone individual isn't going to move the needle. You, Deersniper, and myself seem to be on the same page politically on a lot of subjects here on the hide, but this labor vs management thing seems to have us all in a bit of an uproar. I've been on both sides of labor and supervision, and have seen the dirty sides of both. I have also seen workplaces in which management and labor exist in perfect harmony together until some shareholders decide they need to change things to make try and make a killing instead of a living. Then everyone starts hating each other to the point where production and profits hit the shitter. The most skilled and able workers are the first to leave for greener pastures, then the company is stuck with the less than desirables that cant make it anywhere else. Then the company has to offer more money than what the ones that just left got paid just to get some real expertise back in the ranks.

 

[BullGear]

One thing that I have found to be true in a lot of workplaces is that management will not pay anyone under their control more than they make themselves. When they can't find any suckers to work for their below market wages, they end up bidding the work out at 3x-4x what they were willing to pay an in-house employee. Stupidity should cost and it often does!

Another finding of mine over the years is that management will not hire anyone smarter or more qualified than they are. Most managers and supervisors are more about self preservation than actually getting the job done.

My son in California has experienced that. They hired him as an IT guy. Within 2 years he was updating many, if not most of their business software. Within 4 years he was the unofficial COO. Just this year, the company was bought out. He alone did the negotiating with the buyers and satisfied all of their paperwork requests. All of this with no pay raise during that time.

Now, this new company is going to use him to standardize all of their companies with the same operating systems and software. Not sure of his title, but he gets to it in January.

The old company was allowing him to work whatever hours he wanted as an hourly employee. Not sure how the new company is going to handle his pay. We shall see....

 

[Threadcutter308]

"He never forgave me, but, whatever".

He was screwing people and you're the "bad guy" ?

He did it to himself, not you.

 

[HiDesertELR]

That has happened at every engineering firm I've been at. The ripples from those mistakes reverberate for 20 years after.

Yup, and as you know, being a surveyor, as I was, you're the bastard child in any engineering firm. A necessary evil.

Those dirty, unkempt, foul mouthed surveyors!

I told every engineer who told me "I took surveying in college for a semester, I know how to do your job..."

Yup, shit flows down hill and you can't push a rope - see, I can do your job too.

 

[BullGear]

My pool business has all but ground to a halt. I even asked the crew shooting my Gunite, where is all the labor? They said maybe selling drugs or everyone is 'beezy.'

My plaster sub said he had to go all the way to Houston to find a crew and finally gave up. He said his old crews spends their time sitting at home drinking beer and grilling fajitas. I asked him what do they do for money and he didn't have an answer.

Me thinks they're getting government checks to not work so to further crash America's capitalist economy. To Build Back Better Socialist you have to first destroy capitalism.

Remember when Trump would say his presidency produced the lowest unemployment numbers? Did you see how pissed off Pelosi and the other Democrats looked? They weren't having any of that.

I wanted to buy a pool for the house and was quoted $20k more than it was worth. They also told me the build would be 14 months out. The pool business is red hot in my neck of the woods.

 

[HiDesertELR]

He was screwing people and you're the "bad guy" ?

He did it to himself, not you.

It went deeper than that, no homo. I was kind of his right-hand guy - worked late, worked weekends, always trying to train my replacements, took responsibility when it needed taken, covered his ass when it came down to it.

He flew me out (oh yeah, dude had his own Cessna four seater, paid for) to the coast to do a job for one of his friends. He let his hair down on that trip, and let's just say.... well, I was sworn to secrecy, so I won't divulge too much...

...but the old man could party with the best of them!

Another lesson I learned there - business and friendships don't always work out.