so where do you think the middle ground of that benefits scenario is in our day? Serious question.
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Where are all the employees ?
- Thread starter deersniper
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These days many companies are using "stock options, or stock donations" to their employees. As the value of the company rises, the workers get a piece of the pie. If the company is floundering, the employees SEE the pain. One of my former employers "gave" employees stocks which produce dividends three times a year. The longer you were with the company, the more shares you had, and the larger the dividend. When you decide to retire, you can keep the stocks for an income stream, or sell them to buy a new milling machine
Excellent question !.... Up front, my son works for EXXON. . I was glad to see him finally get on there after 2 tours in the military and working for some smaller outfits. I see this as middle ground.
U.S. employee benefits | Careers | ExxonMobil
An ExxonMobil career is one designed to last. Our employees grow personally and professionally, with benefits built to support every stage of life.
corporate.exxonmobil.com
People need to start freezing and starving to death before anything changes. Pride in this country has all but been erased and the fucktards who've managed to plant their asses in our government have made sure anyone worth a shit busts their ass so the rest can have an endless summer.
Until I start seeing frozen corpses on the sidewalk this shit will only continue.
Until I start seeing frozen corpses on the sidewalk this shit will only continue.
I'm a Tradesman, and I've worked "a few" places as well as worked with "a few" other Tradesmen.
The one thing that was unanimous with regards to "employer incentive" was "stocks/shares/part-ownership-of-the-company". When the Trades group were seriously talking about "what would it take to care more" the answer was always "partial ownership". As-in, the more you're actually invested in the bottom line, the more incentive there was to care and be pro-active.
Careful with the tangents that this can take ya'll, but the point I'm getting at is primarily to see the situation from both sides. First, the stock value on the ticker-tape as well as the 'useful parts' being re-furbished instead of thrown-out. Two completely opposite ends of the spectrum, and insight as to each. I'm not suggesting that it be 'majority shareholder' or anything like that. But when you get a group of actual Tradesmen together that work a site, (actual employees, not a nomadic shut-down-crew) they can see the problems and the bottlenecks for what they are. And those can get streamlined with their experiences and ingenuity.
Back when I was in the sawmill, we had 'autonomy' to a great degree, as-to what we wanted to do. That starts off with management TRUSTING their Tradesmen. Not only that, but the things that need the most constant addressing, are the points where most focus is going to improve/streamline or re-design. There are many different ways to accomplish a task. And just because 'that's how we've always done it' is not/does not mean that there aren't better/faster/cheaper/more-efficient/robuster methods of doing so.
I've heard more than a few times, over the years, the 'open comment' of "to find the best way to do something, look for the laziest engineer." They'll get the job done the easiest. Now, if you're a business, you have to weigh that premise with "do you want to do this once, or do you want to do this continually"? Because that, everyone can be sure, is two completely different things.
All mushrooms are edible. Some, only once.
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/67XRDOFSWNNYRB2T6BZNKPMN3I.jpg)
United, Spirit offer higher pay to on board staff during January
United Airlinesand Spirit Airlines Inc are bumping up pay for on board staff as they scramble to keep schedules intact after U.S. airlines were hammered by a week of mass cancellations.
www.reuters.com
United Airlines offers pilots triple pay to ease omicron flight disruptions
United is among the airlines offering pilots and flight attendants extra pay as omicron drives up crew sick calls.
www.cnbc.com
Work is highly overrated.
www.google.com
Edited for link.
7 ways men live without working in America
Almost one third of all working age men in America aren’t doing diddly-squat. They don’t have a job and they aren’t looking for one either. How do they live? What are they doing for money? To me, this is one of the great mysteries of our time.
Edited for link.
I’m pretty sure everyone not working is just buying SPY and TSLA weekly calls, lol.
A lot of assumptions there; sounds like you have a preset opinion that gets applied to most situations and people so your ideas always seem right. I took a 60% pay cut without any crankiness to my micromanaging present employer due to vacc mandates. Previously I worked for a multinational where I lead a nationally successful competitive company team where my success was due to thousands of off work hours of commitment. I excelled at the work hours too; more production faster and better than my peers. I embody the 10 things you think I should become. It all got me fucking nothing but misery from whiny cunts who felt constantly threatened because the intensity and focus the USMC honed in me is not usefully in a bureaucratic industrial society. Every fucking time I was throw into a critical emergency response leadership role I hit it out of the park(all volunteer, no extra anything). Being honest is a curse. Being right and honest makes you poor.
Most corporations have done it to themselves with the CEO/Board greed. Worked for a large company for just shy of 31 years. In the last two years I worked there they decided to downsize man power and make fewer do more. Then they got rid of our sick leave, made it almost impossible to take vacation and the straw that broke the camels back for me is they froze my pension. The froze the pension on December 31 of last year. In May I turned 55 took my early retirement at a reduction and went with the rule of 55 with my 401k. I’m making as much being at home as I was working. The plant I worked at now has had a giant hiring sign out front advertising great pay(won’t happen) and $500 sign on bonus. The guys I worked with say they can’t get anyone to sign up and if they do it only takes a week or two before they drag up or just stop coming to work.
Reminds me of the “family oriented“ company I worked for a few years ago. They went to a point system for attendance because of a handful of people and made it where it was an unexcused absence to attend a funeral unless it was immediate family. They gave me points when I was a pallbearer in my uncle’s funeral. For my aunt’s funeral, they told me I had to get a letter from the funeral home stating I was a pallbearer and they would make it an excused absence. I quit shortly after. Last I heard, they were buying housing in order to bring people in on work visas because they can’t find help.
Yep. This right here. Asshole companies like that got a 2-day notice from me. As in - I'm leaving 2-day. Toolboxes have wheels for a reason. Once a company shows any signs of going downhill via gross mismanagement, the time to get out is immediately. I've seen too many of my old co-workers ride the ship all the way underwater and every one of them wished they had gotten out earlier.
When a company starts going downhill, its usually incremental just like the boiling frog theory. It's much easier to find another job when you already have one. When a company all of a sudden shuts its doors, there is an excess of unemployed in that geographical area that leads to suppressed wages in that area for a while. You will get your best deal somewhere else when the labor market is tight.
I just got a call from a guy I have done work for in the past.
He wants me to come out this weekend (nope I have two jobs as it is) accuses me of being lazy and not wanting to "make some money" (I traded him for labor back in october and he punked out on me, claimed his excavator broke) and then asks for a friend of mine's number to see if "he wants to make some MONEY!!" (I like the guy, I'm not giving you his number). "I'm paying cash money and nobody wants to WORK". Tomorrow is going to be below freezing with 20-30mph winds, I'd just love to come out and get stiffed a second time lol.
He wants me to come out this weekend (nope I have two jobs as it is) accuses me of being lazy and not wanting to "make some money" (I traded him for labor back in october and he punked out on me, claimed his excavator broke) and then asks for a friend of mine's number to see if "he wants to make some MONEY!!" (I like the guy, I'm not giving you his number). "I'm paying cash money and nobody wants to WORK". Tomorrow is going to be below freezing with 20-30mph winds, I'd just love to come out and get stiffed a second time lol.
Forgot the third rule. Dirt plus water equals mud.
Seriously, registered surveyors are like gold in our office. Don’t do many water/sewer projects without an accurate survey or easements without a route survey….
You might consider being an inspector to make sure contractors build it right.
Got a letter in the mail, my old company is trying to make the state pull my unemployment.
I’m gone and they’re still finding ways to fuck me.
I’m gone and they’re still finding ways to fuck me.
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For those doing the early retirement thing (which once again, represents the majority of workers who have left the workforce), this is pretty much the truth. Who coulda known that juicing the stock market to record highs would have unforeseen and unintended consequences?
For those claiming that this doesn't explain why they can't hire a wage slave at the local bar & grill - a lot (not all, but most) of those early retirees had to get replaced by some other warm body, and so you've likely got this trickle-up "pull" reverberating through the workforce. Meanwhile, you're losing experience and tribal knowledge every time one of those greybeards walks out the door for the last time.
Ex.: Steve the 60-year-old manager doesn't come back from summer vacation after deciding to day-trade; he doesn't start collecting Social Security because LOL why bother when he's making more on good days than his yearly government payout would be. So he's not technical "retired" but he ain't coming back. The company promotes his second-in-charge (who hopefully didn't leave for the competitor who's paying 25% more), and that ripples all the way down to the 19-year-old who just got pulled from shipping and receiving to do whatever inn the quality office.
As a related side note - anyone here want to justify the process of giving nothing more than standard COLA raises of 2-3% to existing employees but paying new workers 25% more to fill the same spot when the existing guy walks after failing to negotiate a meaningful raise? Regardless of vocation, I constantly hear this from friends and family, and it seems completely ass-backwards when one considers the cost of swapping out an experienced employee for someone new. I mean, if you're upgrading talent each time this swap occurs, great - but I haven't heard this consistently happening. I know several people in particular that work in niche industries, and they just rotate through a handful of companies and pick up big raises every time they move.
Yeah, I just did this. Got tired of "mentoring" new junior engineers and contractors - some of who were making almost as much as I do . Flipped the looking for work bit on LinkedIn and got a new job making 25% more. I know my leaving hurt my former employer but f'em they had more than enough time to do the right thing.
Some companies have a slow learning curve. They had the Obama era, when the job market was squeezed, and they "learned" that they could control the employees who were afraid of losing a job. They learned they could hand out smaller raises, and pile on more work.
Many companies have not recovered from that mind-set. They have not yet fully grasped the workforce is not as "fearful", and is willing to jump to a new job. Those slow-learning companies are still offering minimal Cost of Living raises. Those same companies had trimmed down the numbers in their workforce, so that a single employee is performing the work which was previously performed by three workers in the past. Low raises and increased demand on the workers for a decade, has led to a lot of discontent.
Other companies are looking at those who arrived from other companies, and are pleased to have workers who have such a broad diversity of related skills. They are concerned those workers might leave, and are more eager to retain them. They have rapidly learned the lesson of the changing job market.
For now, many companies are using the excuse of "shipping delays", to cover for the fact they no longer have an adequate workforce to meet timelines. That excuse is wearing thin in much of the industry.
Many companies have not recovered from that mind-set. They have not yet fully grasped the workforce is not as "fearful", and is willing to jump to a new job. Those slow-learning companies are still offering minimal Cost of Living raises. Those same companies had trimmed down the numbers in their workforce, so that a single employee is performing the work which was previously performed by three workers in the past. Low raises and increased demand on the workers for a decade, has led to a lot of discontent.
Other companies are looking at those who arrived from other companies, and are pleased to have workers who have such a broad diversity of related skills. They are concerned those workers might leave, and are more eager to retain them. They have rapidly learned the lesson of the changing job market.
For now, many companies are using the excuse of "shipping delays", to cover for the fact they no longer have an adequate workforce to meet timelines. That excuse is wearing thin in much of the industry.
I am waiting on a management position.... Cousin Eddie
Much of this is the fault of the employer.
It’s funny the red team party line, anything bad happens to the employee; fuck him and it’s his fault, yet even the most cockroach employer can do no wrong.
I’ve ran my own little side gig, and worked for big shops and mom and pops, end of the day if I’m working for you and it’s a good quality of life, I’ll stay, if it’s a shit hole and you don’t treat me with respect, I’ll leave and give you whatever notice I can.
It’s funny the red team party line, anything bad happens to the employee; fuck him and it’s his fault, yet even the most cockroach employer can do no wrong.
I’ve ran my own little side gig, and worked for big shops and mom and pops, end of the day if I’m working for you and it’s a good quality of life, I’ll stay, if it’s a shit hole and you don’t treat me with respect, I’ll leave and give you whatever notice I can.
Anyone who still has pride in this country is a 'white supremist, extremist, white nationalist, domestic terrorist' and other assorted descriptors aimed at patriotic Americans.
That originates from the oligarchs that run the world trying to destroy a proud America and issued to their msm to broadcast to the sheep.
I think most of us know the answer to that.
As for the corporate thing it's infuriating but it's probably cheaper for them run existing employees ragged and occasionally hire a replacement at slightly higher wages than it is to give everybody regular raises.
When you’re paying employees in the upper 25%, it’s difficult to bring in needed talent at a 10-20% premium over what existing employees are paid. Upsets the apple cart all the way down the line from senior PM to entry level engineer. We’ve found some success by offering them the ability to do exactly what they want (design water or wastewater plants) and by increasing the signing bonus and then putting them in line to become shareholder after 2 years. Otherwise, keep hiring entry level engineers, scientists and surveyors and provide a great training ground for them.
We have to hire more talent. We also know it will cost us. We pushed every hourly guy up by 20% starting Jan.1. The purpose was to keep from upsetting the Apple cart when we knew we would have to offer more money to get quality employees In the door. Can’t hire a guy at $30 an hour and have a guy making $25 an hour training him. Recipe for disaster!
That happens a lot more than you'd think in the corporate world especially where salaries are concerned. Just cruise job ads on any of those hellhole "resume" sites and you will find plenty of job applications where they list the pay as "competitive" and during the interview you will be told not to discuss salary with other candidates/employees.
That “never discuss compensation” thing never works.
The first thing guys do is compare notes.
Been that way forever.
I got hired at a job in 1974 for $1.90 an hour.
I told my equally qualified buddy to come down and apply.
They hired him at $2.00 an hour.
I was pissed - but at that point realized that my buddy had been a better negotiator than I was.
10 yrs later we all laughed about it when I was running the shop.
Yeah I’m a real asshole because I can’t force people to hire me...you apply and don’t hear shit, you call they don’t want to talk(and have no clue who you are), hearing the same thing from a bunch of people here.
My old positions been open since they forced me out, they constantly ran off employees while I was there. I don’t want to be in this position.
Yes, you need know your worth, and to learn to negotiate better.
The place I referenced earlier hired a department head since I wasn't licensed. After a year, they gave him a review. He comes back in to our office, slams his clipboard on the desk and asks me " Did you know you were getting paid more than me this whole time?"
I giggled, shrugged my shoulders, said "nope none of my business... Guess you need to learn how to negotiate better
"We got a lot of mileage out of that in the coming years.
Working for a place that discourages discussing pay rates is just one step away from wanting you to sign a non-compete clause. Both issues are red flags.
Deersniper is hiring. I think he has some kind of a farm. You'll have to provide your own ball gag though.
I worked for a large Pulp and Paper/Building Products corporation. We recognized about 8 years ago that "labor" was going to be a huge issue as most of our work force in the manufacturing sites - engineers and line workers - were over 50 and that workers were not working until 65. Most workers were leaving well before 65. This was way before the Chinese Virus. Huge move toward "automation" - not just "robots" but advanced process control, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and so on. As workers retired (including me) they were not replaced - those jobs are never coming back.
This thread is full of examples of why America is on the decline.
A welfare state can’t compete with nations full of people that work.
A welfare state can’t compete with nations full of people that work.
If the corrupt government works to hamstring businesses and the people that work for them by first shutting them down due to a bio-weapon pandemic they created and doubling the cost of materials or make them unavailable altogether, then nobody works. Everyone becomes government welfare dependent and just like that, a socialist country replaces America.
Lets get real, a communist regime stole the 2020 election and overthrew the government. Did people think America would continue as a 1st world country under capitalism?
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America was rocking and rolling just a couple years ago with Trump in charge.
Exactly.
Like someone else said we're back to "Let's Make America a Shithole Again".
Depends on what you are applying for.
Construction its very hard to find good people right now. Oil is boom or bust, right now it's probably not as good as it was a few years ago.
IT industry hiring has always been loads of bullshit.
Auto mechanics are in demand but you have to be very careful where you hang your hat.
Whenever things were really slow for me in the past I'd take a warehouse job boxing and shipping stuff. It used to be a more easygoing industry with 12-15$ to start but nowadays with the push for instant shipping everything it is probably a hellish existence.
Retail and Restaurant? They always need people and they always treat em like shit. Port of Last Resort imho.
There aren't many multi-craft technicians in my area. When I got fed up and left my last job, they had to hire 4 people to replace me. An electrician, a mechanic, a machinist, and a welder. I used to maintain the factory floor on graveyard shift all by myself. Now they were forced to put 3 technicians on the back shift just to have enough skill on hand.
I left with an enormous amount of tribal knowledge about the place. Its going to take the average replacement 3-5 years or more to gain that knowledge. Stupidity should and has cost them dearly.
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I understand this.
I sent in an amazing/over qualified resume, they called back saying it was awesome and that I would be the first person they called when they had an opening ( which would be soon because some people where leaving out ).
After some months go by, and the only contact has been me getting ahold of them. They say that the positions have been filled but they would call when they need me.
Months go by and again I reach out to see if they still need me, they say that some people are about to leave and I can call them around December.
At that point I just got another job that was closer to me and payed way better.
Like anything this problem is multi faceted. I’ve seen people being lazy asses where I’m at now, and I’ve seen company leadership be absolutely horrible at other places.
Nearly 80,000,000 people in this country are on some sort of welfare.
But the idea that they don’t work is false.
About a Third of Families Who Received Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Benefits Had Two or More People Working
Most families who received Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits had at least one worker and about a third included two or more workers.
www.census.gov
What many people do is work jobs that (irs wise)keep them below the poverty line so they still receive benefits. Basically, what I’m saying is a lot of these people are hiding their income, paying less in taxes so they qualify for benefits. Then take cash payments for work anlong with their government taxed paycheck.
Or just work a bs job and get benifits and eek by.
Instead of getting bent over by the man, they feel like they are sticking it to him sticking it to him. So that is another place all the employees are, riding those hand out and gaming the system. But most are working...
Fyi- the only Government hand out I have taken where the stimulus checks handed out during covid. Saved them used them to buy a POF Revolution. After watching a republican president in-act one of the largest social giveaways. My concern grew... greatly.
Fyi this country was founded on the Idea of avoiding taxes, yet millions of Employers do it every pay role, they gripe and bitch... but keep doing it.
This country NEEDS another Tea Part
I bet the top 10-20% of the highly skilled workers that said no to the masks and clotshots have dropped out to either semi-retirement or a side hustle. Once they see the side hustle take off strong and become the main hustle, they aren’t coming back to the regular workforce.
The clot shot thing is purposely mandated to fuck up every company with more than 100 people. Only employed workers are being forced to make a choice. Welfare, postal workers, and a big list of others are exempt for some reason.... so it’s not about health.
Another issue is that in heavy industry a lot of equipment including process control systems are old - essentially antique. As senior employees leave they CANNOT be replaced as no one knows how to work with the antique equipment. Large companies have to pay large capital $$ for equipment upgrades or hire the greybeards as "consultants" to keep the antique equipment running. Can't outsource to India or bring in new talent from the trade schools etc. as they no idea how to maintain 20+ year old equipment.
Some people go nuts trying to run their own show, other people love it. For me my own business was heaven, except for the occasional employee drama.
Nearly 80,000,000 people in this country are on some sort of welfare.
But the idea that they don’t work is false.
About a Third of Families Who Received Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program Benefits Had Two or More People Working
Most families who received Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits had at least one worker and about a third included two or more workers.
What many people do is work jobs that (irs wise)keep them below the poverty line so they still receive benefits. Basically, what I’m saying is a lot of these people are hiding their income, paying less in taxes so they qualify for benefits. Then take cash payments for work anlong with their government taxed paycheck.
Or just work a bs job and get benifits and eek by.
Instead of getting bent over by the man, they feel like they are sticking it to him sticking it to him. So that is another place all the employees are, riding those hand out and gaming the system. But most are working...
Fyi- the only Government hand out I have taken where the stimulus checks handed out during covid. Saved them used them to buy a POF Revolution. After watching a republican president in-act one of the largest social giveaways. My concern grew... greatly.
Fyi this country was founded on the Idea of avoiding taxes, yet millions of Employers do it every pay role, they gripe and bitch... but keep doing it.
This country NEEDS another Tea Part
I don't blame the benefits I blame bad management. Trump was in there and wages were going up, unemployment was low, now we have the professionals in charge and they doing everything they can to run us straight into the dirt.
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