Where are my 3 gunners at?

[powdahound76]

Nice stuff!

Curious about this, more the match style Decoy mentioned.

Im finishing a couple final parts on an AR and wondering about triggers.
I like the idea of about 3.5 lbs with no creep and a freakishly short reset.
DaleGribble, how is the Geissele you are running in that respect?
One of the instructors at my local range shoots a lot of 3 gun. She was sponsored by CMC and said she liked them snd has moved to Elfman and likes them even better. Said i can get a deal on a new Elfman through her..... always like a deal.

Right now using the PSA EPT and thinking to try the JP 3.5 lb springs.


Tony, like your vids. Always learning a little something.
I need a better place to shoot..... ?

 

[Jcarpenter223]

I 3 gunned once upon a time. Local matches stopped for a year and then sporadically last and this year.

Unfortunate, I even had my 11 yo niece into it.

I was able to travel to major matches thanks to my sponsor, I had an absolute blast.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@powdahound76 when it comes to triggers I've become a bit snobby, or at least my Timney Calvin Elite made me that way. But honestly a good clean 3.5lb trigger with a short reset is a great thing and will let most people shoot to their potential. It won't feel as cool fingerbanging it in the dryfire dojo next to a 1.5lb trigger but on the clock it would be hard to measure the difference in stage points lost/gained. If I had to pick one trigger to do it all I'd lean towards the CMC 2.5lb flat. I don't really like the Hiperfire's or Geissele's in dry fire but shot timers tell me I must not really care when I'm in the zone.

Tony, like your vids. Always learning a little something.

Thanks! If you or anyone else reading this sees some wasted time or inefficient movement please point it out. So much of my progress has been due to people pointing out things I didn't even know I was doing, so I'm always open to constructive criticism.

 

[powdahound76]

I only do move and shoot drills training, not comps, so criticizing your movement would be silly.

Thanks for the heads up on triggers. I will keep checking them out and try to shoot as many as I can.

 

[Alphatreedog]

Lovin this thread . I struggle to shoot steel once a month and occasional action pistol due to work . I am consid÷ing joining a club an hour away for sanctioned steel . The Bonus is that they have a serious three gun schedule . I want to do more in the way of three gun . We shall see . Please keep rockin this thread . Very inspirational .

 

[Jcarpenter223]

What was the match you shot that you had the most fun at? Local or major match...doesn't matter.

Mine would have to be the Texas 3 gun championship 2015. We rode in this a majority of day one. I dont think a single shooter used the ladder. Lol

Plus the stages were fun. The all flying pigeons on one stage activated by a popper was a blast. I always seemed to rack up misses on stages like that but I had 1 miss out of i think 32 shots(?).

I remember a stage that had a breach door as well. Talk about badass...just power kick that sumbish open.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Hell yeah boys let’s keep this thread going!! Managed to finish 7th overall today after having a coat hanger abortion on stage 1. Thank God I unfucked myself on stages 2, 3, and 4. Videos to follow all AAR comments welcome. Filming shooting in any discipline of marksmanship is paramount to getting better. It is one of the most useful tools in the kit bag. I’ll address the issues I saw with myself and feel free to note anything you guys see that I may have missed.

 

[DaleGribble82]

@powdahound76 when it comes to triggers I've become a bit snobby, or at least my Timney Calvin Elite made me that way. But honestly a good clean 3.5lb trigger with a short reset is a great thing and will let most people shoot to their potential. It won't feel as cool fingerbanging it in the dryfire dojo next to a 1.5lb trigger but on the clock it would be hard to measure the difference in stage points lost/gained. If I had to pick one trigger to do it all I'd lean towards the CMC 2.5lb flat. I don't really like the Hiperfire's or Geissele's in dry fire but shot timers tell me I must not really care when I'm in the zone.


Thanks! If you or anyone else reading this sees some wasted time or inefficient movement please point it out. So much of my progress has been due to people pointing out things I didn't even know I was doing, so I'm always open to constructive criticism.

Bro you really need to try the Geissele Single Stage Precision it is ?

 

[DaleGribble82]

Hell yeah boys let’s keep this thread going!! Managed to finish 7th overall today after having a coat hanger abortion on stage 1. Thank God I unfucked myself on stages 2, 3, and 4. Videos to follow all AAR comments welcome. Filming shooting in any discipline of marksmanship is paramount to getting better. It is one of the most useful tools in the kit bag. I’ll address the issues I saw with myself and feel free to note anything you guys see that I may have missed.

Note that my best stage of the day stage 2 was not filmed my lady failed me on that one. I had the best time of the day on the second stage and shot it clean.

 

[DaleGribble82]

09soonerfan

09soonerfan is a member of Vimeo, the home for high quality videos and the people who love them.

vimeo.com

This link should get you access to the videos of stages 1, 3, and 4. Let me know if it doesn’t work thanks!

 

[DaleGribble82]

@TonyTheTiger results are posted.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Just seen the vids, looks good!
Where's the scores?

 

[DaleGribble82]

Just seen the vids, looks good!
Where's the scores?

Name is Garrett they still haven’t updated practiscore yet.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

What was the match you shot that you had the most fun at? Local or major match...doesn't matter.

That's tough. I don't think I could possibly narrow it down. Stuff like door breaching and shoot houses definitely stand out, so do circus targets (my opinion of them changes regularly) like death stars and polish plate racks. I like aerial clays, once had one as a rifle target. Longer range slugs and pistol are great. 70+ round rifle stages are fun. But some of my favorite matches have more to do with the peeps I shot with than the actual match itself.

 

[DaleGribble82]

That's tough. I don't think I could possibly narrow it down. Stuff like door breaching and shoot houses definitely stand out, so do circus targets (my opinion of them changes regularly) like death stars and polish plate racks. I like aerial clays, once had one as a rifle target. Longer range slugs and pistol are great. 70+ round rifle stages are fun. But some of my favorite matches have more to do with the peeps I shot with than the actual match itself.

The people I shoot with makes the difference today that wasn’t the case had a douche bag spin a chicken and thrown a hissy fit and got his ass thrown out.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Bro you really need to try the Geissele Single Stage Precision it is ?

I'll certainly play with one if I ever get a chance. It's not hard to convince me to try out triggers.

 

[DaleGribble82]

I'll certainly play with one if I ever get a chance. It's not hard to convince me to try out triggers.

Dude I’m telling ya it’s like the first time you slid your trigger finger down inside a pair of wet panties. Perfection ??

 

[TonyTheTiger]

View attachment 7048335

Name is Garrett they still haven’t updated practiscore yet.

Not gonna lie, I had kinda hoped your real name was actually Dale Gribble...

The people I shoot with makes the difference today that wasn’t the case had a douche bag spin a chicken and thrown a hissy fit and got his ass thrown out.

Damn, sucks to see bad sportsmanship. I've never seen anyone thrown out though, the worst I typically is the people that spend five minutes after a trainwrecked stage yelling f-bombs to let everyone know how mad they are, and then the habitual non resetters.

 

[Jcarpenter223]

Yea man the guys i shot with were just as fun as the stages. Makes the resetting waaaaaaay more tolerable. Especially walking into the brush looking for steel plates. Lol

 

[DaleGribble82]

Not gonna lie, I had kinda hoped your real name was actually Dale Gribble...

Damn, sucks to see bad sportsmanship. I've never seen anyone thrown out though, the worst I typically is the people that spend five minutes after a trainwrecked stage yelling f-bombs to let everyone know how mad they are, and then the habitual non resetters.

Yeah man dude is a huge tool, use to be in my old Battalion and hasn’t changed a bit. Total wiener. It was fun other than that spat. RO wasn’t having his shit and told him and his porn stache to get the fuck off the range. Ole tits McGee AKA my fiancé was very happy. She’s from the straight up ghetto and has zero couthe and was like “who is that faggot with the mustache fuck that dude he is trash”. Her first match attendance ever was priceless ??.

I’m a country bumpkin redneck from the sticks and imma tell ya it don’t get much better than a white girl from the hood. She never ceases to amaze me. Love her too pieces. First person who’s ever came to watch me compete in the decade I’ve been doing it. She was cracking me up and she got sun burnt and didn’t let me forget hahaha. Great day on the range. Can’t wait to get back out there!

At the end of the day she said “I could see you were in your element, I get it all now” ? yep she’s a keeper ??

 

[DaleGribble82]

Oh, and fuck nonresetters they are the worst!!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I’ll address the issues I saw with myself and feel free to note anything you guys see that I may have missed.

How serious are you about some feedback? I've got a few pointers if you're interested, and don't worry I won't be a dickhead, or be captain obvious and tell you to never miss targets and shoot faster than everyone else. That stuff is a given and applies to all of us at every skill level. I'm talking more about extra unnecessary movement or gun manipulations, stuff we can practice and weed out without having Jerry Miculeks ammo budget, little things that add up to more time than we really think.

 

[DaleGribble82]

How serious are you about some feedback? I've got a few pointers if you're interested, and don't worry I won't be a dickhead, or be captain obvious and tell you to never miss targets and shoot faster than everyone else. That stuff is a given and applies to all of us at every skill level. I'm talking more about extra unnecessary movement or gun manipulations, stuff we can practice and weed out without having Jerry Miculeks ammo budget, little things that add up to more time than we really think.

Lay it on me.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Lay it on me.

Alright.

So a common theme seems to be 3 rounds on all paper targets. If thats a stage requirement disregard. If not, it's costing you about a second per target with pistol, a bit less with rifle. If you're calling your shots and see a probable edge hit then by all means throw a third but try not to make it an automatic habit.

Stage 1, you flipped your rifle safety before breaking position. If you can always be moving when not shooting and multitask the safety manipulations and reloads during movement you can save a good second and a half in this type if situation.
Not a criticism but curious what was happening with the shotty? Couldn't tell with the camera angle.

Stage 4, Killed the shotgun targets!
Looked like some uncertainty after the pistol targets? In between the two rifle target arrays, try to keep the rifle up and shouldered when there is room and the movement is minimal.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Alright.

So a common theme seems to be 3 rounds on all paper targets. If thats a stage requirement disregard. If not, it's costing you about a second per target with pistol, a bit less with rifle. If you're calling your shots and see a probable edge hit then by all means throw a third but try not to make it an automatic habit.

Stage 1, you flipped your rifle safety before breaking position. If you can always be moving when not shooting and multitask the safety manipulations and reloads during movement you can save a good second and a half in this type if situation.
Not a criticism but curious what was happening with the shotty? Couldn't tell with the camera angle.

Stage 4, Killed the shotgun targets!
Looked like some uncertainty after the pistol targets? In between the two rifle target arrays, try to keep the rifle up and shouldered when there is room and the movement is minimal.

The rifle targets on stage 4 required 3 hits. Other than that all paper was 2 hits, and I see your point completely. Out of every pistol target I shot 3 times only one of them was a makeup shot. The rest were just wasted time like you said.

Multitasking I definitely need to get better at. I’m so use to shooting in a MIL environment close to others that I occasionally tend to do the same things I would do clearing a house rather than running a stage. Not sure if that makes sense or not but I definitely wanna bridge that gap. Shotgun issue was not dropping my comb so I at first was hitting way high adjusted my POA and then during my reloaded I chambered my round began throwing shells in and didn’t get one all the way in and it popped up in the chamber. So I had one in the breech and one sitting on the bolt face ready to chamber. Cost me a lot of time. Just comes down to needing to practice my reloads.

Stage 4 pistol was good until the last target I threw one shot and had to make it up then took forever to holster up and move. Definitely need to keep the rifle up to cut time down good looking out! This is why I love video you can AAR the shit out of everything.

 

[deersniper]

I do not have time for that stuff. But if I did I would do 2 gun. Shotguns are a relic of times past.

Maybe a 3 gun that includes pistol carbine Precison rifle. Make the course from 0-800 or beyond

 

[DaleGribble82]

I do not have time for that stuff. But if I did I would do 2 gun. Shotguns are a relic of times past.

Maybe a 3 gun that includes pistol carbine Precison rifle. Make the course from 0-800 or beyond

Two gun is always an option, had a guy run like that yesterday.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yeah I could see how prior military training could be a hurdle in 3 gun. After the last couple years of shooting competitively I'm convinced a person is almost better off coming in a clueless blank slate vs. guys like me that shot a lot previously or mil/leo guys because we like to think we already know a lot...

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I do not have time for that stuff. But if I did I would do 2 gun. Shotguns are a relic of times past.

Booo! Shotguns are fun and thats all the reason needed to include them in a gun game.

 

[DaleGribble82]

Yeah I could see how prior military training could be a hurdle in 3 gun. After the last couple years of shooting competitively I'm convinced a person is almost better off coming in a clueless blank slate vs. guys like me that shot a lot previously or mil/leo guys because we like to think we already know a lot...

Agreed! Lol after shooting long range precision rifles in the Army for so long I went to shoot clays a few years back and was awful!! When I was a kid I would slay them lol trap shooting movers at distance ruined me ??

 

[Unknown]

Any people here that used to shoot at the Soldier of Fortune 3 gun matches back in the 1980's/90's?

One year they had a stage where the shooter started shooting from inside a WWII halftrack, then had to exit the track and run around shooting. It was a great stage to watch because no matter how strongly they warned shooters to not bash their heads on the overhead of the door they would exit, about 1 out of 15 would hit it hard and end up in a heap on the ground outside the track. That armor had no pity for anyone's forehead.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Had time to shoot 4 runs on a little practice stage today. 40 degrees and raining so 4 runs was enough anyway. Rifle steel was a 6" plate at about 300yds, harder than it sounds. Found two slugs in my bag so two runs start with slugs, then an unloaded start, then just a rifle run. I don't like to set up a practice stage then run it exactly the same over and over, since thats not how matches work.
Problems with each run, run #1 I yard sailed half my shotgun load, had to port load my last round.
#2 was alright, the paint was cleaned off the plate so you can see me spend a lot of time trying to locate it from here out. Looks just like the surrounding cornfield at this point.
#3 was a crappy unloaded start, I'll blame my bandaged thumb on lack of dexterity. Port load was intentional. Target shook noticeably on the second shot from the tank trap but no sound, edge hit?
#4 was just more struggling to see my target...

 

[DaleGribble82]

Had time to shoot 4 runs on a little practice stage today. 40 degrees and raining so 4 runs was enough anyway. Rifle steel was a 6" plate at about 300yds, harder than it sounds. Found two slugs in my bag so two runs start with slugs, then an unloaded start, then just a rifle run. I don't like to set up a practice stage then run it exactly the same over and over, since thats not how matches work.
Problems with each run, run #1 I yard sailed half my shotgun load, had to port load my last round.
#2 was alright, the paint was cleaned off the plate so you can see me spend a lot of time trying to locate it from here out. Looks just like the surrounding cornfield at this point.
#3 was a crappy unloaded start, I'll blame my bandaged thumb on lack of dexterity. Port load was intentional. Target shook noticeably on the second shot from the tank trap but no sound, edge hit?
#4 was just more struggling to see my target...

Sweet range dude.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Sweet range dude.

Its not the worst backyard ever is it? Don't worry the rest of the yard looks less trashy than my corner behind the shed. Gets a little claustrophobic once the corn gets over 3' tall but I can still manage to shoot 200yds.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Any people here that used to shoot at the Soldier of Fortune 3 gun matches back in the 1980's/90's?

One year they had a stage where the shooter started shooting from inside a WWII halftrack, then had to exit the track and run around shooting. It was a great stage to watch because no matter how strongly they warned shooters to not bash their heads on the overhead of the door they would exit, about 1 out of 15 would hit it hard and end up in a heap on the ground outside the track. That armor had no pity for anyone's forehead.

No ND's from people smoking their domes?

 

[DaleGribble82]

@TonyTheTiger just dropped the comb with .250 shim kit. Wish my lazy ass did it Friday evening lol. Made a world of difference.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Its funny how much difference that stuff makes.
I'm a firm believer that this type of shotgun shooting is not as instinctive as wingshooting/clays. You can get away with a lot but you should still see the front bead somewhere in the vicinity of the target. Obviously a good stock fit aids in getting that bead aligned in front of your eye faster!

 

[DaleGribble82]

Its funny how much difference that stuff makes.
I'm a firm believer that this type of shotgun shooting is not as instinctive as wingshooting/clays. You can get away with a lot but you should still see the front bead somewhere in the vicinity of the target. Obviously a good stock fit aids in getting that bead aligned in front of your eye faster!

Yep exactly, and the drop shim install made a HUGE!! difference. I’m on target with proper sight alignment head and eyes lined up perfectly compared to yesterday were I was almost looking over the sights.

 

[Amccallister]

I am a 3 gunner, it is my preferred venue to shoot. Competed all up and down the east coast for several years, now I live in Las Vegas and primarily shoot matches at Pro Gun Club in Boulder City. They usually have 3-4 major matches a year and locals every month, and the guy that runs them is a fantastic match director (Pete Rensing). And shotgun is the shit, although Pete offers a 2 gun division at every match.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

@Amccallister how's UML working out down there in Rensingland? There's a few UML matches up here now, I don't mind them in a small club match setting as much as I thought I would.

 

[Amccallister]

@TonyTheTiger it’s a good rule set, the matches locally are great. The only thing I’m not a huge fan of is the ridiculous number of divisions, but people like options I guess. We’re pretty spoiled here in Vegas, Pete could run a match under any rule set and make it bad ass. The local matches are bay matches, no real long range, but can still be challenging with a lot of off hand rifle and tight no shoots. When the long range stages show up at majors it’s always a shit show, the targets are generous but the wind is usually 20+ mph and seemingly always full value lol.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

That sounds exactly like the UML matches here, in order to keep it exciting with limited space a lot of tight technical stuff is used. Also not a huge fan of a billion divisions, to the point where it's not really a 3 gun match anymore.

 

[DaleGribble82]

UML is new to me, what’s the scoop? Does it incorporate PCCs?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Yes. And thats the good news. And also the bad news because it means you now have to shoot 4 gun to win HOA. Hauling around 4 guns sucks, especially since it appears that you'll be using the PCC 80% of the time.

 

[Amccallister]

UML is new to me, what’s the scoop? Does it incorporate PCCs?

It can. The matches can be shot PCC only, and there are “2x4” divisions, both Open and Tac Ops, which are 3 gun plus PCC, at least 2 guns required per stage. Which quickly turns into PCC and one other gun on every stage.

 

[Amccallister]

And I quickly stopped caring about HOA after shooting a few matches. The divisions are too different to even compare against each other most of the time.

 

[Amccallister]

ussleagues.com is the website with a lot of info on the different leagues and rules if anyone wants to read up on it.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

And I quickly stopped caring about HOA after shooting a few matches. The divisions are too different to even compare against each other most of the time.

Yeah I know, and this was explained a hundred times at the start, but who doesn't get a warm fuzzy from winning a club match? I'm not sure how long I'll resist the need to go 2x4 to get HOA...

Also the divisions as they are in standard 3 gun are nice the way they are, because unless you have huge stand and deliver shotgun arrays or 30yd pistol headshots, you can actually look at all divisions lumped together and have a pretty good idea of where people stand. Obviously this is not so in UML.

 

[Amccallister]

Yeah I know, and this was explained a hundred times at the start, but who doesn't get a warm fuzzy from winning a club match? I'm not sure how long I'll resist the need to go 2x4 to get HOA...

Yeah I know the feeling man! I don’t know how stiff the competition is in your neck of the woods, I can usually still pull off HOA at the locals here shooting Tac Ops or Open. Sometimes someone will beat me shooting PCC only. Silly single gunners. 2x4 is fun as hell, but it cuts out a lot of shotgun, which is my favorite gun to shoot.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I don’t know how stiff the competition is in your neck of the woods,

Well, we did have some guy named Froelich hanging around last year, and some Yackleys once, and a few others that significantly lower my odds when they show up...