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Rifle Scopes Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

boltstop

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 17, 2010
231
0
59
Colorado, USA
I've been watching optics really closely for 8 years or so - frankly, it's kind've become an obsession with me (and I am thinking of seeing a mental health professional over it, LuLZ). Premier just seemed to pop out of nowhere, and I hear they have all the .goob contracts etc.

Who are they?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Premier Reticles---Been in business in one form or another for 64 years. Gee they really snuck up on you....

If that is the level of attention to detail that you impart on your OBSESSIONS...I'd really hate to see something that you disregard...
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier Reticles---Been in business in one form or another for 64 years. Gee they really snuck up on you....

If that is the level of attention to detail that you impart on your OBSESSIONS...I'd really hate to see something that you disregard... </div></div>

Nice.

Well, they're obviously rebranded. Were they Unertl or something?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier Reticles---Been in business in one form or another for 64 years. Gee they really snuck up on you....

If that is the level of attention to detail that you impart on your OBSESSIONS...I'd really hate to see something that you disregard... </div></div>

Nice.

Well, they're obviously rebranded. Were they Unertl or something? </div></div>

Re-branded, errr NO. try this:

History of Premier Reticles

The company made it's bones "improving" Leupold's scopes for many years, and were the first to convert Leupold Mk4's to FFP.

Leupold severed (like in cutthroat) it's relationship with Premier back in 2005. This breakup was well published and rightly criticized.

Bob
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

I notice that their 5-15 scope weighs... 38 ounces.

Holy GOD.

It's like carrying around a fully loaded 1911 on top of your heavy sniper rig.

Yeesh.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice that their 5-15 scope weighs... 38 ounces.

Holy GOD.

It's like carrying around a fully loaded 1911 on top of your heavy sniper rig.

Yeesh. </div></div>

Have you noticed that if you look through the smaller end things actually get bigger... it's just awesome...
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I notice that their 5-15 scope weighs... 38 ounces.

Holy GOD.

It's like carrying around a fully loaded 1911 on top of your heavy sniper rig.

Yeesh. </div></div>

You don't seem to notice much
grin.gif
:

US Optics SN3 T-Pal 5-25 2.50 lbs (that's 40 oz for those than live in Rio Linda)

S&B 5-25 PMII 38.1 Oz

IOR 6-24x56mm FFP 36 oz.

Zeiss Hensoldt 6-24x72mm 38 oz

Those are all full figured scopes. Now for the "lightweights":

NF 5.5-22x56mm SFP 32 oz
NF 3.5-15x50mm F1 FFP 30 oz
IOR 3-18x50mm FFP 35 oz


Bob
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Hey bolt,

We shouldn't be giving you too much grief. PR has been around for a long time but just starting making their own scopes as the history denotes relatively recently.

Everything in this sport is "relative".
Weight: yep, no lightweights in general but these optics are typcially going on top of pretty heavy sniper rigs to begin with. I haven't weighed my fully loaded AIAW with PR 3-15 and Atlas bipod but it is heavy, i.e., over 15 lbs.
Quick relative comparisons:
PH 3-15 is 38 oz.
PH 5-25 is 39 oz. (is this right? Got it from CS Tactical's site).
And let's compare it against comparable class scopes like S&B.
S&B 5-25 is 38 oz.
S&B's new 3-20 is 32 oz. (one reason why people are excited about it).

But, once you use one of the high end scopes it will all make sense compared against a generic 3-9x hunting scope. They are well designed, well made, very precise instruments captured within field-hardened cases.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

I didn't know this:

"A major milestone came in 2005 when Premier was awarded the contract to manufacture the United States Marine Corps’ then-new Scout Sniper Day Scope: Certainly the strongest proof to date that the Thomas men—first father and then son—had indeed built a company of consequence." (from Premier's website: history section)

What USMC rifle carries a Premier day scope or are they just talking about the reticle used in the S&B scope?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Premier does assembly of 75% of the Schmidt and Bender scopes going onto USMC rifles. The parts are shipped over here and assembled by Premier.

Josh
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MinorDamage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Premier does assembly of 75% of the Schmidt and Bender scopes going onto USMC rifles. The parts are shipped over here and assembled by Premier.

Josh </div></div>

Yes, but they state they "manufacture" the day scope. Isn't this a little misleading?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Wow, you guys are tough on boltstop...LOL

The original 8541 SSDS was a S&B 3-12PMII with a Gen II reticle that we built here in Winchester. When that contract was fulfilled we submitted a ECP to The Corps to use our Premier built 3-15 on the new M110 rifle and we are currently fulfilling that contract.
The grandfather of the company worked on the Norden bomb site back in WWII, so the company has a history in optics.

Paul
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold">Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?</span>

I've been watching optics really closely for 8 years or so - frankly, it's kind've become an obsession with me (and I am thinking of seeing a mental health professional over it, LuLZ). Premier just seemed to pop out of nowhere, and I hear they have all the .goob contracts etc.

Who are they? </div></div>

I can't believe this thread has made it this far without a single, Nunya!

Wink.gif
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Plange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

SWFA,

I almost put it up there for sh**s and giggles but thought better of it as Chris might not like it.....LOL

Paul </div></div>

Paul,

Good call!

Scott
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Seen a few PR S&B conversions prior to the Leupolds well over 20 years ago.
Also done work for them almost 13 years ago for Dick.
Some of the dates are wrong, last time i spoke to Dick was June 2004 just before went in to hospital and the last of the proper Leup conversions, i still have one VX3 20-50 GEN2 having sold the Mark 4 35 mag.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adam B</div><div class="ubbcode-body">hell, I thought Premier was stealing all of their technology from Barska </div></div>

Counter Sniper is what I heard.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div> what he said....
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div>

Wow, the gang-fucking is strong with this one.

Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd just head back to ARFCOM.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

we are not short of douchebags here...

in all seriousness, the response has been to the incongruity of you having been obsessive with optics for nearly a decade and not knowing or finding astonishing basic facts and figures that are readily available.

I believe it takes about 8 years to go from med-school to surgeon and it'd be similar to a newly qualified surgeon saying, "holy shit, do you have ANY idea how many pints of blood there are in an average adult human body...."

just sayin'
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

That's nice. Another "friendly" gun forum where the participants just relish the opportunity to fuck a fellow gun owner over - someone they haven't even met - simply because they can do it anonymously over the internet.

There's simply no cause to be unfriendly like this. It's just stupid.

Oh, and I LOVE the way SWFA managed to join in on the fun - just couldn't resist, could you? Pretty stupid of you to insult a potential customer.

I'm in the market for two scopes and was going to shop at SWFA. Won't be doing that now, will I? LOTS of competitors out there.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div>

Wow, the gang-fucking is strong with this one.

Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd just head back to ARFCOM.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass? </div></div>

Hey, we have a motto around here: "Stupid should hurt"....

Notice I did not say, the uninformed or a new guy trying to educate himself. We help those kind of folks out.

Instead in your post you said you been studying and obsessed with scopes for 8 years, and yet you did not know who Premier Reticles is. That is akin to studying cars for 8 years and not knowing Ferrari made any.

It was your uninformed presumptions and attitude that got you gang tackled, not the mere fact of asking a question.

Hang around, ask intelligent questions, provide useful information that helps the collective membership, and your opening stumbles will be forgotten.

Oh, and no whining. Take a ass kicking, suck it up, and move on to the next topic.

Bob

 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div>

Wow, the gang-fucking is strong with this one.

Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd just head back to ARFCOM.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass? </div></div>

Hey, we have a motto around here: "Stupid should hurt"....

Notice I did not say, the uninformed or a new guy trying to educate himself. We help those kind of folks out.

Instead in your post you said you been studying and obsessed with scopes for 8 years, and yet you did not know who Premier Reticles is. That is akin to studying cars for 8 years and not knowing Ferrari made any.

It was your uninformed presumptions and attitude that got you gang tackled, not the mere fact of asking a question.

Hang around, ask intelligent questions, provide useful information that helps the collective membership, and your opening stumbles will be forgotten.

Oh, and no whining. Take a ass kicking, suck it up, and move on to the next topic.

Bob

</div></div>

Well, I'll tell you what, sport - I don't thank you for having a shitty attitude. I think you're an asshole. You obviously think I'm an asshole too - not because I actually did anything to you, but because I asked a question that allowed you to criticize my thinking about a topic..

Do you see the difference? In one case, I asked a polite question and got like 9 shitty responses, including yours. You had an opportunity to be polite, but you and your crew of playground bullies (including a vendor - how fucking professional is THAT?) decided you'd "rough me up to show me the ropes around here." When you were done you decided to throw a tub of vaseline my way and say, "hey, this is how it is here. Suck it up, and get used to it."

That's the mark of a lowlife - someone who, given the opportunity to be polite, took the other course.

But yeah, thanks for your "help." I'll make sure I don't bother you or anybody else around here with any of my vast and amazing stupidity, just so I don't overly annoy you.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Boltstop you asked us to spoon feed you. Your question could have easily been answered if you had taken the time to search the internet. We have at least a thread week around here with the Premier name on it, some of which include detailed information about this history of the company. And if searching this site was to much work for you then Google would have returned the same results.

Had you not asked a question that the answer to was readily available you would not have gotten the attitudes. However since you did you got this thread.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's nice. Another "friendly" gun forum where the participants just relish the opportunity to fuck a fellow gun owner over - someone they haven't even met - simply because they can do it anonymously over the internet.

There's simply no cause to be unfriendly like this. It's just stupid.

Oh, and I LOVE the way SWFA managed to join in on the fun - just couldn't resist, could you? Pretty stupid of you to insult a potential customer.

I'm in the market for two scopes and was going to shop at SWFA. Won't be doing that now, will I? LOTS of competitors out there. </div></div>

SWFA's "nunya" comment wasn't directed to take a poke at you in the least.It was in reference to a thread a long time ago that only those that have read it or were around then understand.

Yes there are some hard ass's around here but some of those same folks are extremely knowledgeable about guns,scopes and gear.





 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Longshot38</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Boltstop you asked us to spoon feed you. Your question could have easily been answered if you had taken the time to search the internet. We have at least a thread week around here with the Premier name on it, some of which include detailed information about this history of the company. And if searching this site was to much work for you then Google would have returned the same results.

Had you not asked a question that the answer to was readily available you would not have gotten the attitudes. However since you did you got this thread. </div></div>

"Spoon feed" my shoe.

I asked a question. I'd bet 90% of the people that read the responses thought (just like I did) "Wow, did these guys have to take that tack with him? Makes us look kind of crummy..."

There's always an alternative to saying something malicious or snarky - err on the side of politeness. Prevents people from thinking you're an internet wanker that hides behind your keyboard in order to insult.

Or, just refrain from responding - it's not so tough.
confused.gif
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Well, I'll tell you what, sport - I don't thank you for having a shitty attitude. I think you're an asshole. You obviously think I'm an asshole too - not because I actually did anything to you, but because I asked a question that allowed you to criticize my thinking about a topic..

Do you see the difference? In one case, I asked a polite question and got like 9 shitty responses, including yours. You had an opportunity to be polite, but you and your crew of playground bullies (including a vendor - how fucking professional is THAT?) decided you'd "rough me up to show me the ropes around here." When you were done you decided to throw a tub of vaseline my way and say, "hey, this is how it is here. Suck it up, and get used to it."

That's the mark of a lowlife - someone who, given the opportunity to be polite, took the other course.

But yeah, thanks for your "help." I'll make sure I don't bother you or anybody else around here with any of my vast and amazing stupidity, just so I don't overly annoy you. </div></div>

boltstop,

My first reply to you was not a shitting response. I took the time to provide you a link to the history of Premier Reticles. I took the time and trouble to not only answer you, but provide you some real information.

I did not tell you to look it up or do a google search. Nor did I tell you were stupid, nor imply you were stupid. I thought you were just incredibly uninformed for somebody who professes to have has been studying and obsessed with rifle scopes for 8 years.

Those were your words not mine. You got off around here on the wrong foot, and continue to try to stick said foot into your mouth.

You also incredibly thin skinned, and couple ignorance with arrogance, in large doses.

What I said is, when you get pounded, for seemingly gross stupidity on your part, you need suck it up like a man, and move on to the next topic. Just say "my bad" and that you made an oops.

No big deal, in the long run. However, you have now made it a big deal. Oh, and you were not criticized because of your thinking. You were criticized for not thinking, and proclaiming yourself something your not. To whit, that you know something about rifle scopes, and who makes them, and there specifications.

In short you know absolutely nothing about rifle scopes, and all your whining about us being bullies is your response for being called on the carpet for it.

PLEASE JUST MOVE ON.

Thanks,

Bob



 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div>

Wow, the gang-fucking is strong with this one.

Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd just head back to ARFCOM.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass? </div></div>

OK. Considering you came on here and made some spectacularly foolish comments, evincing zero effort to research a product (note the little box in the upper left of your screen?), and then acting all butt-hurt about the responses, what exactly were you expecting? Have you not seen the reaction to that sort of question here?

I lurked here for almost a year before posting the first time, and on the few occasions I have started a topic I first researched the hell out of it. Why? So I don't look like a doofus.

So why should the denizens of this board be so solicitous about your ignorant question?
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd <span style="color: #3333FF">just head back to ARFCOM</span>.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass? </div></div>

Your remark regarding SWFA was less informed than your original supposition, and is deserving of an apology to SWFA.

As well as Bob, who is more patient than most of the guys of his level of knowledge here, and actually took time to answer your ill-presented quandry. I was thinking of posting a LMGFY answer myself.....

then there's the "blue man" option you could take......

 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

The way I see it, SWFA (which was just making a light-hearted comment towards past topics) just avoided having another whiner for a customer. Many of the rest of us will be happy to make up their lost business.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The way I see it, SWFA (which was just making a light-hearted comment towards past topics) just avoided having another whiner for a customer. Many of the rest of us will be happy to make up their lost business. </div></div>

Many of their past customers are whiners for a reason. Their sales staff lied to me 2 times, the first was my fault for not making a call to verify what their rep told me on the phone. The second time, I verified that SWFA's rep lied and I cancelled my sale before hanging up. I also just prevented my father from buying a Vortex from SWFA about 5 minutes ago and also advise my friends to buy elsewhere. The "lies" weren't simple mistakes, they were bold faced lies and I'll leave it at that.

As far as PR, I remember they were doing a lot of custom work for Leupold. The first time I got involved with them was when they installed a set of target turrets on a VariXIII 6.5-20x50 in 1996 or so. Excellent work! I remember when Leupold screwed the pooch and created a nightmare competitor in Premier Reticles a couple years ago. Now that was a huge mistake that'll continue biting Leupold in the ass for years to come. PR is just more innovative and creative than Leupold and their scopes are on a different level. I just wish I could afford one, so I'm stuck with Leupold, NF and IOR.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who are they?</div></div>

Here's a detailed account of Premier's history that I read and actually learned a lot from:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/premier-reticles-1.php

Thanks,

Mason @ CST
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Well MrHKtacdriver,

I can't defend your accusations without knowing who you are so fill out your profile.

Chris Farris
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWFA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well MrHKtacdriver,

I can't defend your accusations without knowing who you are so fill out your profile.

Chris Farris
</div></div>

PM sent. I don't make my information public.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who are they?</div></div>

Here's a detailed account of Premier's history that I read and actually learned a lot from:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/premier-reticles-1.php

Thanks,

Mason @ CST
</div></div>

Thanks, that is a really great article! I once read that the reticle wires were called spiders because of their resemblance to spiders before application. I had no idea that reticles were actually made from spider webs. You learn something new every day.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

Yeah, <span style="text-decoration: underline">I've heard</span> that armorers during the Vietnam era used to keep a few spiders around for just that reason. Since I'm only 30, I don't know this for sure (because I wasn't there I mean), but it sounds feasible.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who are they?</div></div>

Here's a detailed account of Premier's history that I read and actually learned a lot from:

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/premier-reticles-1.php

Thanks,

Mason @ CST
</div></div>

Thanks, that is a really great article! I once read that the reticle wires were called spiders because of their resemblance to spiders before application. I had no idea that reticles were actually made from spider webs. You learn something new every day. </div></div>
+1 on the Great article. Another legendary American Company. I have looked through one of the 5-25 Premiers and was really impressed with the glass. A guy was kind enough to let me look down range with one, so I wasn't able to test the turrets or anything.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltstop</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The derp is strong with this one.</div></div>

Wow, the gang-fucking is strong with this one.

Seriously, if I wanted unfriendliness I'd just head back to ARFCOM.

Think a couple more of you douchebags could jump on my ass? </div></div>
Yeah, tough crowd here.

BUT DON'T EGG THEM ON!!!! Sheesh! Glutton for punishment? I sure hope you're not a "good sport" just loving the abuse here.

And regarding BARF.com, I thought their stock in trade was more along the lines of rumor=truth, sloppy logic, and stupid theories.

Yeah, I don't go there. Or Glocktalk (unless I want to buy or sell something by the Blessed Gaston...).

Not being among the Cogniscenti here, I also was not up on the transition of PR from rebuilder/improver to assembler of complete units. Glad you asked.
 
Re: Where did Premier Riflescopes come from?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok enough everyone.

</div></div>

Said it once. I have to say it again then people will be banned. Last warning.