Where Do We Go From Here?

[flatland1]

I started in R22s and R44s and worked my way into the Bell 412EP and MD530....never been in a gyrocopter. I'm commercially rated in airplanes to include multiengine and headed down to FL soon for initial in TBMs. I've entertained getting signed off in tailwheels, but haven't yet been motivated enough to go do it; but I have an affinity for STOL aircraft.

MB

The TBM was the first plane that came to mind when I looked at the photo out the windshield over a long nose, with the prop stopped by the shutterspeed back on post #15. The slope of the windshield and the divider was also a good clue. I've fantasized about owning a TBM since the first 800-series models came out, and the newest 960 would be a blast to fly. I keep buying powerball & megamillions lottery tickets, but at my age, it's probably a lot better to day dream about getting whatever new actions you come up with...

Last trip I flew in our '64 S-model Bonanza was down to Double Eagle airport over on the NW side of Albuquerque on this past Memorial Day weekend to meet Doan Trevor and retrieve the V22S prone rifle he stocked for me. It was a hot & bumpy day, and I kept wondering how high I'd have to climb in a TBM to reach cooler & smoother air...

Dad bought an old, well-used 1961 Cessna 150 when I started flying in 1977. I flew it at every opportunity to build time so I could get my commercial license & instrument rating, and eventually my CFI. After we bought the Bonanza, the little 150 didn't get flown as much, and after a crack in one of the landing gear bulkheads was found, didn't get flown at all for quite a few years. Then I heard about the Lowe STC to convert early (59, 60, 61) 150s to taildraggers, somewhat simplified by the fact that those first three years of production, Cessna was using left-over C-140 fuselages, which already had the forward gear bulkheads. After over 2yrs of spare-time work, a nearby shop finished it for me - Lowe conversion, STOL kit, and best of all, swapping out the worn-out old O-200 Continental for a freshly overhauled O-320 Lycoming. For now, I'm just glad our little hometown airport has a couple of decent grass runways...I don't bounce as much on them as I seem to do on the single hard surface one...lol In our hanger that Dad designed & built while I was flying for a ferry outfit out of Wichita 40yrs ago - a friend from Denver flew his RV-6 out for a wedding, my C-150/150, and the nose of our Bonanza. Getting fresh paint on both the 150 & the Bonanza is obviously high on my list of priorities...

 

[RTH1800]

Duel firing pins on rimfire.
That is where increased ignition consistency will come from.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I’m glad you’re still going to be working on new products! Always
I hope you had enough time for yourself. This is an area I've never been very good at, but, going forward, will be better at balancing what it means to "step away."

I would love to hear which pistol you had a hand in designing. Always cool to see new gun designs. There's a lot of these kinds of things I can't/won't discuss due to NDAs and such, but I can speak to the one from Turkey as the Canik TP9SFx. I was impressed with their Engineering staff and manufacturing capabilities and it was amazing how fast it all came together. I was the first to place the rear sight in the RMR blanking plate and called my buddy, Scott Warren (Warren Tactical Sights) to ask if he wanted his sights across the entirety of the Canik Product line. Of course, he said, "yes," and it was a huge hit. There was a trickle down of various features from the SFx into other pistols from Canik and it remains a platform with the best factory trigger in the business. I'm currently working on polymer framed, striker fired platforms for others, but can't/won't discuss the details. My team and I also developed the GoSafe system and two of us are the actual inventors on the issued patent. It's not a product I use, as it's geared more toward new owners, mostly with small children in the house, but it's a really cool example of the complexities of what's involved in high level development and manufacturing.

GOSAFE - Revolutionary Mobile Firearm Security

Empowering firearm security in-home, in-vehicle and everywhere you store or carry.

gosafenow.com

Seeing as you’re your own new company now.

How about either a 3 lug or fortner action that set up similar to the Sig Cross / QFix that has easy change barrels, carbon fiber handguard, folding stock and either uses CZ mags (if it’s a mini/rimfire action) or vudoo mags (full size). With a light weight barrel to boot! I was team lead on the development of a Fortner actioned rimfire at Savage. It was really cool and after I issued strong warnings to the management, it didn't go over well when they took it to SHOT Show and word got around. Anschutz showed up in the booth and, rightfully so, had some harsh words for the CEO and needless to say, the project didn't go any further. Having said that, although I can develop such an action, I won't engage in such a project because I won't latch on to the bootstraps of a nearly 170 year old company that's still doing a great job at manufacturing a really cool system. Anschutz does what they do and I do what I do and we've been good at staying in our lanes as professionals. If the Fortner were no longer available and I had creative license to change a few things that I believe would serve the community, it would be no holds barred at that point. Also, I have a Q Fix and it's a great rifle. I've often thought about what it would be like to have a rimfire system that was similar, but I'm not quite there yet. I've been to the Q facility a few times and they're great folks doing cool stuff, so we'll just see where something like this can go with a rimfire chamber.

Something that would work well for hunting and fit a wide variety of shooters. Have the action be part of the frame.
Ruger got it kind of close with the RPRr but failed and no one else has got it quite right imho. The convention that has continued to work well in the true-to-scale rimfire platforms fit the serious American shooter and that same convention has become more popular in other countries as well. There are reasons the Ruger didn't grab much market space and it goes back to what I've stated numerous times about listening to the shooting community. All the info a design engineer is looking for is right in front of his eyes as long as he's humble enough to listen to what you guys are saying.

22lr pistol would have at least 20 rounds and hopefully be as easy to manipulate like the GSG 1911 or these new guns FN502, Sig 322 (I think that’s the model), and Tarus xt22. Already down the road on a 22LR pistol and I can't/won't speak much about it. What I will say is, it's not in the VQ space (huge VQ fan and Scott is awesome) but does serve something specific.

Something that mimics full size centerfire guns that kids and adults can practice with that shoots very well and can be used for hunting, competitions and plinking…. Z. I believe I'm understanding what you're saying here and will say, part of the action line I'm doing includes a pretty incredible sporter sized action for the guys that like blued steel and walnut stocks....the "walking around rifle," if you will.

I mean if I was dreaming of something

Wow, nice post and I'll address each in the quoted section above. I'm sure there's a bit of what I say above that will fuel more discussion, so bring it on and where I can provide detail, I certainly will do so.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

As long as we’re dreaming …

.22LR 700 pattern for triggers. Already did this with Flavio Fare for Benchrest and Repeaters. Also, I'm a huge fan of the Big n Andy Dakota; a fantastic trigger that is superior to ones I've used for many years.
18” threaded carbon fiber barrel. I did this with PROOF about 4.5 years ago.
Chassis with integrated ARCA rail that protects the front of the magazine. Did this with JP Rifles and there are other really good ones on the market.
Folding stock that covers / protects the bolt. Also already done.
Enough pic rail space for both a decent mid size scope and AR style offset sights. I need more detail to understand the application.
15 round aluminum mags. I have a new design that will be offered with my actions.
Backpack carrying case with foam inserts. As in an actual back pack or a long case that has backpack straps? If it's the latter, I have packs from Vertx and Eberlestock that are awesome for folding stock, short barrel rifles/ARs.

Market is general purpose rimfire / survival rifle / trainer / small game hunting

Available in left handed of course. I will always design and offer left handed versions at the same time I design and offer right handed versions....just the way it should be and can't understand, with today's technology, the left handed versions are generally an afterthought and take months/years for companies to intro.

Edit: I’ll take two left handed ones and a right handed one for my Goddaughter.

Same as my prior post, I'll provide detail in the quoted text above.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Duel firing pins on rimfire.
That is where increased ignition consistency will come from.

Uh, HHHhhhhmmmm....No.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

The TBM was the first plane that came to mind when I looked at the photo out the windshield over a long nose, with the prop stopped by the shutterspeed back on post #15. The slope of the windshield and the divider was also a good clue. I've fantasized about owning a TBM since the first 800-series models came out, and the newest 960 would be a blast to fly. I keep buying powerball & megamillions lottery tickets, but at my age, it's probably a lot better to day dream about getting whatever new actions you come up with...

Last trip I flew in our '64 S-model Bonanza was down to Double Eagle airport over on the NW side of Albuquerque on this past Memorial Day weekend to meet Doan Trevor and retrieve the V22S prone rifle he stocked for me. It was a hot & bumpy day, and I kept wondering how high I'd have to climb in a TBM to reach cooler & smoother air...

Dad bought an old, well-used 1961 Cessna 150 when I started flying in 1977. I flew it at every opportunity to build time so I could get my commercial license & instrument rating, and eventually my CFI. After we bought the Bonanza, the little 150 didn't get flown as much, and after a crack in one of the landing gear bulkheads was found, didn't get flown at all for quite a few years. Then I heard about the Lowe STC to convert early (59, 60, 61) 150s to taildraggers, somewhat simplified by the fact that those first three years of production, Cessna was using left-over C-140 fuselages, which already had the forward gear bulkheads. After over 2yrs of spare-time work, a nearby shop finished it for me - Lowe conversion, STOL kit, and best of all, swapping out the worn-out old O-200 Continental for a freshly overhauled O-320 Lycoming. For now, I'm just glad our little hometown airport has a couple of decent grass runways...I don't bounce as much on them as I seem to do on the single hard surface one...lol In our hanger that Dad designed & built while I was flying for a ferry outfit out of Wichita 40yrs ago - a friend from Denver flew his RV-6 out for a wedding, my C-150/150, and the nose of our Bonanza. Getting fresh paint on both the 150 & the Bonanza is obviously high on my list of priorities...

That picture is actually shot from the left seat of a Piper PA-32, 6XTC (early morning flight back from DC a few weeks ago)....basically, it's a Saratoga with fixed gear. I shared these photos of aircraft I've been flying of late (the helo picture was more than 20 years ago) in the Aviation thread in the Bear Pit, but will plop them down here as well, since we have so many cool pilots that just happen to shoot as well.

I don't have any photos of the B412EPs and MD530s, just because.

MB

 

[kthomas]

Interesting.

I'm looking at getting into the precision rimfire game soon, I'll have to wait and see what you are brewing up.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Interesting.

I'm looking at getting into the precision rimfire game soon, I'll have to wait and see what you are brewing up.

Awesome, it’d be great to finally welcome you into the rimfire fold.

MB

 

[Krob95]

It'll be interesting to see what happens. The Vudoo's I had were hands down my favorite rifles. Curious to see what you have cooking up and how it differs from them.

 

[RAVAGE88]

It'll be interesting to see what happens. The Vudoo's I had were hands down my favorite rifles. Curious to see what you have cooking up and how it differs from them.

It'll definitely be interesting, Dude. The Vudoo's are certainly no slouch, at the top of the game for sure. However, as good as their SAP convention ignition is, it has it's limitations and there's always room for improvement. Also, there are PAS ignitions that are very good, but they still have issues with drag and an archaic approach to mechanical convention. This'll be tons of fun....

MB

 

[Geno C.]

I just need a centerfire 22lr bolt

 

[RAVAGE88]

I just need a centerfire 22lr bolt

Scratching my head on this one....

MB

 

[Geno C.]

 

[RAVAGE88]

View attachment 7973212

Ah, now I’m tracking….well played Dude and certainly worth some thought.

MB

 

[BillOH]

Do you have any plans for a 22 that will have a MSRP that will fit in any of the classes such as NRL22 Base, ARA Factory, PRS22 Production, etc. and still be able to have the quality you are famous for?

 

[jbell]

Although I’ve designed/developed rifles, pistols, shotguns, parts and accessories, etc., for many in the industry for years, and still do, any new rimfire actions, rifles, etc., will be my own….hence my excitement.

MB

ok, now I am excited!

**Nothing against VGW, I am most definitely still a fan.**

 

[RAVAGE88]

Do you have any plans for a 22 that will have a MSRP that will fit in any of the classes such as NRL22 Base, ARA Factory, PRS22 Production, etc. and still be able to have the quality you are famous for?

Hey Dude,
I haven't given any thought or made specific plans to design within the varied price points, which is something I've vowed to never do. Having said that, after the action designs are locked, which is close, I could look at ways to be within the disciplines you mention here as a target to serve those in the community shooting those events. It's a normal course of process to develop costed BOMs after design lock, so that would be the perfect time to have a discussion to understand the objectives to meet the rule sets.

MB

 

[deltawiskey]

Ok, let us in on what you got going so I can get the check in the mail...
DW

 

[RAVAGE88]

ok, now I am excited!

**Nothing against VGW, I am most definitely still a fan.**

Yep, this is why I said you'd likely be the first to know....I'm driving up when the first ones are together and we're gonna shoot.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Ok, let us in on what you got going so I can get the check in the mail...
DW

Most definitely, Dude....

MB

 

[BillOH]

Hey Dude,
I haven't given any thought or made specific plans to design within the varied price points, which is something I've vowed to never do. Having said that, after the action designs are locked, which is close, I could look at ways to be within the disciplines you mention here as a target to serve those in the community shooting those events. It's a normal course of process to develop costed BOMs after design lock, so that would be the perfect time to have a discussion to understand the objectives to meet the rule sets.

MB

It was just a thought. The biggest problem is the rules change from year to year and the price points change. I ran into that years ago with my Nastoff 45. I have a safe full of handguns that now aren't legal or competitive in various sports. The reason I thought of it is because a local range just started shooting ARA. I got a CZ 457 set up by Jay P. to shoot factory. I use the CZ in ARA and use my Gen 1 Vudoo in long range.

 

[RAVAGE88]

It was just a thought. The biggest problem is the rules change from year to year and the price points change. I ran into that years ago with my Nastoff 45. I have a safe full of handguns that now aren't legal or competitive in various sports. The reason I thought of it is because a local range just started shooting ARA. I got a CZ 457 set up by Jay P. to shoot factory. I use the CZ in ARA and use my Gen 1 Vudoo in long range.

Yep, exactly what I've seen over the years and why I won't allow what's proven to be fickle rule to influence initial design. Lets see where we end up....

MB

 

[ohiofarmer]

…part of the line of action line I'm doing includes a pretty incredible sporter sized action for the guys that like blued steel and walnut stocks....the "walking around rifle," if you will.

Can’t wait to hear more on this front!

 

[JBoomhauer]

Yep, this is why I said you'd likely be the first to know....I'm driving up when the first ones are together and we're gonna shoot.

MB

Got room for one more?

 

[RAVAGE88]

Got room for one more?

Of course, you’re in! So is Bob M.

MB

 

[Quickoz]

Of course, you’re in! So is Bob M.

MB

You guys have all the fun

 

[darth_ritis]

I will always design and offer left handed versions at the same time I design and offer right handed versions....just the way it should be and can't understand, with today's technology, the left handed versions are generally an afterthought and take months/years for companies to intro.

Music to my ears! I am really, really, really looking forward to what's next!

 

[Lastsaint21]

First off, I can’t wait to buy your next idea..I am sure it will bring a lot of smiles..
Second, something that has ate at me from time to time is the half moon shaped firing pin..It makes sense, perfect sense to me, so why did the chisel seem to work better? The crescent should put all the energy where the primer is, the chisel waste, if you will, part of its energy impacting part of rim that does not have primer and the side casing of the shell..
Wish you the best! And enjoy Solidworks, one of my favorite things to do..

 

[Frankr]

GOSAFE - Revolutionary Mobile Firearm Security

Empowering firearm security in-home, in-vehicle and everywhere you store or carry.

gosafenow.com

Wow, nice post and I'll address each in the quoted section above. I'm sure there's a bit of what I say above that will fuel more discussion, so bring it on and where I can provide detail, I certainly will do so.

MB

Mike:

Thank you for the detailed responses.

My buddy has 3 Caniks and the newest trigger is awesome.

Also I don’t blame you for not even messing with the fortner action. Anschutz does well with it.

I bought one of the first PWS summit actions when they came out thinking it would be the holy grail of 22lrs (I haven’t tried the VQ version). The trigger was amazing but the action was not anything like a good toggle action from Russia.

The action wouldn’t feed slowly and the PWS barrel wasn’t nearly as accurate as a Kidd barrel. Even sent it back to be worked on my PWS. Got it to work ok for you ran it fast and accuracy was ok but I’ve got Tikka, CZs, kidds, etc… that would outshoot and out cycle it.

I can’t wait for your next designs.

Rimfires bring so many smiles.

I take a few youth groups out each year as well as my kids and there is something about rimfires that always bring smiles to peoples faces. Having accurate, reliable guns that people can use is always a joy.

Please keep us posted on your new projects.

I’m sure any here would love to be “beta” testers

 

[RAVAGE88]

First off, I can’t wait to buy your next idea..I am sure it will bring a lot of smiles..
Second, something that has ate at me from time to time is the half moon shaped firing pin..It makes sense, perfect sense to me, so why did the chisel seem to work better? The crescent should put all the energy where the primer is, the chisel waste, if you will, part of its energy impacting part of rim that does not have primer and the side casing of the shell..
Wish you the best! And enjoy Solidworks, one of my favorite things to do..

Ah, Dude, now you're speaking to things near and dear to my heart. Having said that, I'll address things like this as carefully as possible to avoid projecting into narratives that are not accurate or down right untrue. The bottom line is, the Vudoo platform is an incredible system that charted into territory that was brand new and it was done to feed what this community was asking for. It does what it does at the highest levels of performance and it's supported by an incredible team of highly passionate people....period. It was the first truly functioning true-to-scale repeater with an AICS form factor magazine, all designed as a system to provide two things....accuracy and consistency. And, it provides that accuracy and consistency by not allowing any damage to the bullet during the feed cycle. No one can ever change any of that and I'll always be the sole inventor listed on two issued patents for the V-22 action.

Now, beyond that, if we take a look at firearms history for a moment and know that there's not a single one of us that hasn't developed memories and awesome stories around platforms like the Winchester Model 70 (I'm a pre-64 snob, killed my first elk with one), Remington 700, Savage 110 (or Axis for you younger guys), no one could argue that they do what they do very well. However, I believe we'll also agree that what they were from the beginning and what they are now is all they'll ever be. That's not a bad thing; there's nothing "broken," so just let it be.

But, my staunch belief is, especially as it pertains to rimfire, we're not done yet. The "we" being those that can't avoid the desire to continue to take it to the next place. I mentioned in a prior post in this thread that there are things left undone, mainly due to bad timing, and the crescent firing pin is one of them, along with fast twist barrels and other things I won't mention yet. I believe in these conventions because actual data has been developed and the performance numbers indicate that we should be responsible enough as passionate shooters to do these things the right way. No "distractions," no "design-by-committee," no "that's good enough," no "that's close enough," no "how cheap can we make it and how much can we get for it," and especially, No. Corporate. Born. BS....

Every Vudoo I own except for my 22Mag has a crescent firing pin tip and half of my 22LRs have fast twist barrels. I have a number of prototype fast twist barrels in the lab right now that Shilen made for me and I really want to say more (because I'm excited) about some other "stuff." But, I'll stop here and get back to work....

Thanks for bringing this one up, Dude....

MB

 

[Quickoz]

Ah, Dude, now you're speaking to things near and dear to my heart. Having said that, I'll address things like this as carefully as possible to avoid projecting into narratives that are not accurate or down right untrue. The bottom line is, the Vudoo platform is an incredible system that charted into territory that was brand new and it was done to feed what this community was asking for. It does what it does at the highest levels of performance and it's supported by an incredible team of highly passionate people....period. It was the first truly functioning true-to-scale repeater with an AICS form factor magazine, all designed as a system to provide two things....accuracy and consistency. And, it provides that accuracy and consistency by not allowing any damage to the bullet during the feed cycle. No one can ever change any of that and I'll always be the sole inventor listed on two issued patents for the V-22 action.

Now, beyond that, if we take a look at firearms history for a moment and know that there's not a single one of us that hasn't developed memories and awesome stories around platforms like the Winchester Model 70 (I'm a pre-64 snob, killed my first elk with one), Remington 700, Savage 110 (or Axis for you younger guys), no one could argue that they do what they do very well. However, I believe we'll also agree that what they were from the beginning and what they are now is all they'll ever be. That's not a bad thing; there's nothing "broken," so just let it be.

But, my staunch belief is, especially as it pertains to rimfire, we're not done yet. The "we" being those that can't avoid the desire to continue to take it to the next place. I mentioned in a prior post in this thread that there are things left undone, mainly due to bad timing, and the crescent firing pin is one of them, along with fast twist barrels and other things I won't mention yet. I believe in these conventions because actual data has been developed and the performance numbers indicate that we should be responsible enough as passionate shooters to do these things the right way. No "distractions," no "design-by-committee," no "that's good enough," no "that's close enough," no "how cheap can we make it and how much can we get for it," and especially, No. Corporate. Born. BS....

Every Vudoo I own except for my 22Mag has a crescent firing pin tip and half of my 22LRs have fast twist barrels. I have a number of prototype fast twist barrels in the lab right now that Shilen made for me and I really want to say more (because I'm excited) about some other "stuff." But, I'll stop here and get back to work....

Thanks for bringing this one up, Dude....

MB

You are the biggest tease MB..... Cant wait to see what happens.

 

[J_D]

Yep, this is something that I had to place on the back burner for a while. Let's link up on the phone early next week....

MB

I'd be really interested in this.........also can't wait to hear what the fast twist specs will be.

 

[1813Benny]

Mike,
To provide a rather direct answer to your original question of "Where do we go from here?", ...let's check the MB scorecard.....

Time off. Check
Renewed focus. Check
Open mind for input from others. Check
Clean sheet of paper for design. Check
Love for what you do. Check

Answer is rather simple..."Anywhere you damn well please."

Welcome back.

Best Regards,
Ken

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike,
To provide a rather direct answer to your original question of "Where do we go from here?", ...let's check the MB scorecard.....

Time off. Check
Renewed focus. Check
Open mind for input from others. Check
Clean sheet of paper for design. Check
Love for what you do. Check

Answer is rather simple..."Anywhere you damn well please."

Welcome back.

Best Regards,
Ken

Dude, you’re awesome.

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

I'd be really interested in this.........also can't wait to hear what the fast twist specs will be.

Are you a 3P shooter?

MB

 

[J_D]

Are you a 3P shooter?

MB

I'm not, but something I'd be interested in playing with. Would it only be for pro level?

 

[RAVAGE88]

I'm not, but something I'd be interested in playing with. Would it only be for pro level?

No sir, it'll serve any level shooter and I appreciate your interest.

MB

 

[Rimfireshooter99]

So Mike, what moniker will your new equipment have....

Maybe Bushwhackers?

LOL! Good luck with the new project and we all look forward to seeing your new stuff!

Larry

 

[obx22]

Dunno what’s up with shooters and flying, perhaps both are just plain addictive.
Looking forward to your next project, the hints are intriguing.
I consider the Vudoo a successful compromise- make a functional rimfire that emulates an “industry standard” centerfire that was itself a price driven product (made for low, mass production costs), that was adopted by hunters and the military, a niche that screamed to be filled successfully.
Turning your mind and creativity towards a design that doesn’t have to fit any template, but purpose built to extract all the available accuracy from our favorite cartridge? Let’s just say I’m very interested

 

[LeftyJason]

Since there are so many aviation peeps in this thread make sure you stop by the aviation thread. I am aviation adjacent (turbo jet engine machinist).

Hide Aviation

A fair amount of fellas here involved in aviation. Post up pics of equipment, experiences (there I was upside down in a thunderstorm 😊), you’re daily lives burnin’ 100LL or Jet A, etc... Whether you do it to pay the bills, just for fun, or just interested. We all file a flight plan through a...

www.snipershide.com

 

[RAVAGE88]

Dunno what’s up with shooters and flying, perhaps both are just plain addictive.
Looking forward to your next project, the hints are intriguing.
I consider the Vudoo a successful compromise- make a functional rimfire that emulates an “industry standard” centerfire that was itself a price driven product (made for low, mass production costs), that was adopted by hunters and the military, a niche that screamed to be filled successfully.
Turning your mind and creativity towards a design that doesn’t have to fit any template, but purpose built to extract all the available accuracy from our favorite cartridge? Let’s just say I’m very interested

Awesome post, thanks Dude….

MB

 

[RAVAGE88]

Since there are so many aviation peeps in this thread make sure you stop by the aviation thread. I am aviation adjacent (turbo jet engine machinist).

Hide Aviation

A fair amount of fellas here involved in aviation. Post up pics of equipment, experiences (there I was upside down in a thunderstorm 😊), you’re daily lives burnin’ 100LL or Jet A, etc... Whether you do it to pay the bills, just for fun, or just interested. We all file a flight plan through a...

www.snipershide.com

I just found the Aviation thread a few days ago, had no idea it was there as I never venture out of the rimfire forum. It was great to see the diversity of people, skills, trades, etc., that are on this site. Thanks for dropping in here Lefty and feel free to join us.

MB

 

[LeftyJason]

I just found the Aviation thread a few days ago, had no idea it was there as I never venture out of the rimfire forum. It was great to see the diversity of people, skills, trades, etc., that are on this site. Thanks for dropping in here Lefty and feel free to join us.

MB

I've been watching this thread since Friday I think. I'm not much into rimfire. Need to sell my 2 lefty savages. Don't like them as much. Tikka is finally slowly bringing in their 22lr t1x in lefty.

 

[RAVAGE88]

I've been watching this thread since Friday I think. I'm not much into rimfire. Need to sell my 2 lefty savages. Don't like them as much. Tikka is finally slowly bringing in their 22lr t1x in lefty.

Yep, I’m hopelessly left handed, but, I’m right eye dominant, so shoot everything right handed. I think I lucked out on the whole shooting deal, but that’s why I always design and intro left and right handed stuff at the same time.

MB

 

[Trung Si Ma]

Mike,

Thanks for the heads up about the APAC - it wasn't in my view. I ordered one and noticed that the APAC manual says 60 ft-lbs on the front screw and 30 on the rear but I think I remember you saying to go 65/65 on the V22 - do you remember what you're running on the APAC?

Thanks,

Don

 

[RAVAGE88]

Mike,

Thanks for the heads up about the APAC - it wasn't in my view. I ordered one and noticed that the APAC manual says 60 ft-lbs on the front screw and 30 on the rear but I think I remember you saying to go 65/65 on the V22 - do you remember what you're running on the APAC?

Thanks,

Don

No worries….I run 65/65 on everything. There are no exotics required for torquing action bolts and if so, it should lead to asking pretty serious questions about why a properly engineered system has to be torqued using asymmetrical values.…jus sayin.

MB

 

[orkan]

No worries….I run 65/65 on everything. There are no exotics required for torquing action bolts and if so, it should lead to asking pretty serious questions about why a properly engineered system has to be torqued using asymmetrical values.…jus sayin.

MB

Not that Mike needs my validation, but this is exactly correct, and I only confirm it for everyone else's benefit. People should be paying way more attention to this than they are.

If torque tuning is required... or even works at all... then there is a quintessential problem with the action/stock interface, or the action itself, or both. This is a fact. The so-called "tune" will not withstand hot/cold cycles nor the test of time.

I recommend barrels on our RimX's get put on to a minimum of 50 ft/lbs, and both actions screws hit 65 in/lbs.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

As a vudoo owner and huge fan of the platform, MB leaving them does cause some concern for the future. We have seen this type of things happen when the brain behind the product leaves and it rarely ends up well. I hope this isin't the case, but it is concerning.

 

[RAVAGE88]

Not that Mike needs my validation, but this is exactly correct, and I only confirm it for everyone else's benefit. People should be paying way more attention to this than they are.

If torque tuning is required... or even works at all... then there is a quintessential problem with the action/stock interface, or the action itself, or both. This is a fact. The so-called "tune" will not withstand hot/cold cycles nor the test of time.

I recommend barrels on our RimX's get put on to a minimum of 50 ft/lbs, and both actions screws hit 65 in/lbs.

Greg, I’ve realized over the years that we’re on the same page way more often than not….thanks for weighing in on this. And, you make a valid point about barrel torque; it’s definitely important. I don’t promote that there’s an “industry standard” for some biblical approach to barrel torque, but there should certainly be a standard at the individual level or, how in the world can one create consistency in anything?

For the larger diameter tenon rimfire actions, I’ve stuck to a specific torque for 20 or so years and it contributes to the overall headspace and how I machine a chamber. If I change the torque value, other things change and then consistency is out the window. I’m sure you see the same thing with a set shop standard of 50 ft lbs for the RimX.

MB

 

[orkan]

I’m sure you see the same thing with a set shop standard of 50 ft lbs for the RimX.

Yes, consistency in all things, or nothing at all.

My shop standard is higher torque, but I'm not going to tell a customer that. They don't have my tools... and I don't need someone trying to twist an action in half because they thought it was a good idea to only insert their tool into the rear band of the action.