Where has the market failed you

[Tikka595II]

As the title asks where has the precision reloading market failed you in providing desired products? More specifically the bullet manufactures? Why do I ask, well recently I changed jobs and the company I now work for is looking to move into the 2A market space and the first step being explored is projectile manufacturing, I now have a front row seat to the process and the ability to influence the direction of the outcome moving forward. Therefore, I want to know from my fellow shooters here on the Hide what products are you currently looking for that are unavailable from or not even considered by the major players in the market today? I look forward to the informative replies from you all.

 

[Foul Mike]

I have been looking for and trying to order 6.5 140 gr. HPBT Match Hornady bullets to replenish my stock.
They have been a lower cost good enough for me bullet in the past. Good enough for practice. Not the best nor the worst out there and affordable. I haven't found any anywhere.
I thought they might be something Hornady had dropped to concentrate more on their ELD line so called them to see if they had been dropped and was told they still make them but everything they make goes into production of loaded ammo.
With all that, maybe making an affordable bullet something like that in various calibers for practice would be a place to start.

 

[Tikka595II]

Thanks for the reply I will take it into consideration

 

[rustyinbend]

What makes me crazy is this concept of a "run" ... where a popular bullet that's in demand hits the market after a ton of them are made, and then disappears for a year until the next manufacturing retool specific to that bullet. It would be great to have a consistent manufacturing process that keeps up with demand, vs. this "Feast or Famine" model of bullet manufacturing. I'd recommend (a) go with fewer models, and (b) ensure multi-item manufacturing that (c) satisfies market demand. But that's just me ...

 

[riverside jeep]

Not exactly precision market, but hunting market. The state I'm unfortunately living in and a few others now require nonlead projectiles for hunting and it looks like a fast growing number of states following suit. All the major bullet manufactures have an offering plus a few specialty guys. They all have the same problem so far and that is expansion on impact at lower velocity's. So far everyone is a copper monolithic style, How about something other than copper? How about a partition design with copper jacket something besides lead for a core that would mushroom? The current generation hunting group has really went into the long range taking of game instead of being better hunters so at extended ranges with little velocity and little to no expansion it pencils through the animal.

 

[alamo5000]

As the title asks where has the precision reloading market failed you in providing desired products? More specifically the bullet manufactures? Why do I ask, well recently I changed jobs and the company I now work for is looking to move into the 2A market space and the first step being explored is projectile manufacturing, I now have a front row seat to the process and the ability to influence the direction of the outcome moving forward. Therefore, I want to know from my fellow shooters here on the Hide what products are you currently looking for that are unavailable from or not even considered by the major players in the market today? I look forward to the informative replies from you all.

Here is one: The entirety of the bullet industry is chasing the end of the spectrum for long range, high BC bullets. These projectiles regularly cost upwards of .50 cents each, or more. I am assuming that once the engineering and manufacturing process is done these bullets have a bigger per bullet profit margin on them, and plus it's a big trend right now.

Right now you can buy 230 grain jacketed .45 ACP bullets delivered to your door (including shipping) for .17-18 cents a bullet. So in theory the cost of materials should be about the same--for a simple rifle bullet in that same weight range.

I would like to see a simple heavy .308 bullet in the 210-220 grain weight range that is for 300 Blackout. I don't need some insane BC. I just need it to fly straight for 100-200 yards max and come in around the .20ish cents range. Right now the cheapest you could get would be at least .35 cents per bullet, plus shipping.

All in all a 40% (ish) price per round cost savings would be welcome (for shooting 300 Blackout). They can have exposed bases. It doesn't matter. Just a simple and cheap bullet that comes in bulk boxes and is aimed exclusively for 300 Blackout shooters would be awesome.

Similar to this, only in rifle form:

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...-gr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

Edit: And I don't mean cast bullets or plated bullets.

 

[alamo5000]

What makes me crazy is this concept of a "run" ... where a popular bullet that's in demand hits the market after a ton of them are made, and then disappears for a year until the next manufacturing retool specific to that bullet. It would be great to have a consistent manufacturing process that keeps up with demand, vs. this "Feast or Famine" model of bullet manufacturing. I'd recommend (a) go with fewer models, and (b) ensure multi-item manufacturing that (c) satisfies market demand. But that's just me ...

Good luck finding any 109 grain Bergers... arguably the most in demand bullet out there, but I have YET to see them in stock in at least a year or more.

 

[FLIGHT762]

I have been looking for and trying to order 6.5 140 gr. HPBT Match Hornady bullets to replenish my stock.
They have been a lower cost good enough for me bullet in the past. Good enough for practice. Not the best nor the worst out there and affordable. I haven't found any anywhere.

Midway has them: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1165149662

 

[Tikka595II]

What makes me crazy is this concept of a "run" ... where a popular bullet that's in demand hits the market after a ton of them are made, and then disappears for a year until the next manufacturing retool specific to that bullet. It would be great to have a consistent manufacturing process that keeps up with demand, vs. this "Feast or Famine" model of bullet manufacturing. I'd recommend (a) go with fewer models, and (b) ensure multi-item manufacturing that (c) satisfies market demand. But that's just me ...

thanks for you input I agree with your frustration, I am curious how much you know about the manufacturing process most bullet manufactures use? from my own research there are only a few types of machines and processes used across the board and each has a unique setup style. in addition to being expensive themselves the tooling for each change in the product can cost $10,000s and up to several weeks to change between bullets limits on space, money, and time help create the feast or famine in my still uneducated opinion. in regards to your last three points, I agree and that is part of the reason for the questions the closer we can come to the market demand from the start the more options will available long term.

 

[Tikka595II]

Not exactly precision market, but hunting market. The state I'm unfortunately living in and a few others now require nonlead projectiles for hunting and it looks like a fast growing number of states following suit. All the major bullet manufactures have an offering plus a few specialty guys. They all have the same problem so far and that is expansion on impact at lower velocity's. So far everyone is a copper monolithic style, How about something other than copper? How about a partition design with copper jacket something besides lead for a core that would mushroom? The current generation hunting group has really went into the long range taking of game instead of being better hunters so at extended ranges with little velocity and little to no expansion it pencils through the animal.

I believe the problem here lies in the fact that there is currently no non toxic substitute that has all the necessary characteristics to replace lead their are those that have the same or better weight/ density but are to hard and their are some that are soft enough but are to light to be a direct replacement. and copper has to be relatively hard to machine consistently and will work harden if stamped or pressed you could anneal afterwards but you run the risk of it being so soft that it deforms in the barrel when fired and then it loses accuracy and potentially won't function terminally either. this materials issue is what is holding the nonlead hunting market back currently. if someone has an idea on what material to use I would love to hear it

 

[impactaddict]

Here is one: The entirety of the bullet industry is chasing the end of the spectrum for long range, high BC bullets. These projectiles regularly cost upwards of .50 cents each, or more. I am assuming that once the engineering and manufacturing process is done these bullets have a bigger per bullet profit margin on them, and plus it's a big trend right now.

Right now you can buy 230 grain jacketed .45 ACP bullets delivered to your door (including shipping) for .17-18 cents a bullet. So in theory the cost of materials should be about the same--for a simple rifle bullet in that same weight range.

I would like to see a simple heavy .308 bullet in the 210-220 grain weight range that is for 300 Blackout. I don't need some insane BC. I just need it to fly straight for 100-200 yards max and come in around the .20ish cents range. Right now the cheapest you could get would be at least .35 cents per bullet, plus shipping.

All in all a 40% (ish) price per round cost savings would be welcome (for shooting 300 Blackout). They can have exposed bases. It doesn't matter. Just a simple and cheap bullet that comes in bulk boxes and is aimed exclusively for 300 Blackout shooters would be awesome.

Similar to this, only in rifle form:

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...-gr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

Edit: And I don't mean cast bullets or plated bullets.

Here you go

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

americanreloading.com

 

[impactaddict]

Here is one: The entirety of the bullet industry is chasing the end of the spectrum for long range, high BC bullets. These projectiles regularly cost upwards of .50 cents each, or more. I am assuming that once the engineering and manufacturing process is done these bullets have a bigger per bullet profit margin on them, and plus it's a big trend right now.

Right now you can buy 230 grain jacketed .45 ACP bullets delivered to your door (including shipping) for .17-18 cents a bullet. So in theory the cost of materials should be about the same--for a simple rifle bullet in that same weight range.

I would like to see a simple heavy .308 bullet in the 210-220 grain weight range that is for 300 Blackout. I don't need some insane BC. I just need it to fly straight for 100-200 yards max and come in around the .20ish cents range. Right now the cheapest you could get would be at least .35 cents per bullet, plus shipping.

All in all a 40% (ish) price per round cost savings would be welcome (for shooting 300 Blackout). They can have exposed bases. It doesn't matter. Just a simple and cheap bullet that comes in bulk boxes and is aimed exclusively for 300 Blackout shooters would be awesome.

Similar to this, only in rifle form:

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...-gr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

Edit: And I don't mean cast bullets or plated bullets.

Here you go

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

americanreloading.com

 

[alamo5000]

Here you go

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

308 220gr SMK HPBT - 250ct

americanreloading.com

I won't be buying second hand pulled bullets for .36 cents each. That in no way addresses my post.

 

[impactaddict]

I won't be buying second hand pulled bullets for .36 cents each. That in no way addresses my post.

whats wrong with plated bullets from Everglades?

 

[alamo5000]

whats wrong with plated bullets from Everglades?

You must not be much on reading comprehension.

Let me quote my own post:

I would like to see a simple heavy .308 bullet in the 210-220 grain weight range that is for 300 Blackout. I don't need some insane BC. I just need it to fly straight for 100-200 yards max and come in around the .20ish cents range. Right now the cheapest you could get would be at least .35 cents per bullet, plus shipping.

All in all a 40% (ish) price per round cost savings would be welcome (for shooting 300 Blackout). They can have exposed bases. It doesn't matter. Just a simple and cheap bullet that comes in bulk boxes and is aimed exclusively for 300 Blackout shooters would be awesome.

Similar to this, only in rifle form:

​

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...-gr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

The cheapest you can get Everglades plated bullets are .32 cents. Conversely at RMR bullets you can get 230 grain jacketed pistol bullets (same rough equivalent in total materials used) for under .18 cents per bullet. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but I fail to see why it should be double the cost to produce for a similar amount of materials used.

 

[impactaddict]

You must not be much on reading comprehension.

Let me quote my own post:

I would like to see a simple heavy .308 bullet in the 210-220 grain weight range that is for 300 Blackout. I don't need some insane BC. I just need it to fly straight for 100-200 yards max and come in around the .20ish cents range. Right now the cheapest you could get would be at least .35 cents per bullet, plus shipping.

All in all a 40% (ish) price per round cost savings would be welcome (for shooting 300 Blackout). They can have exposed bases. It doesn't matter. Just a simple and cheap bullet that comes in bulk boxes and is aimed exclusively for 300 Blackout shooters would be awesome.

Similar to this, only in rifle form:

​

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bul...-gr-full-metal-jacket-round-nose-bullets-new/

The cheapest you can get Everglades plated bullets are .32 cents. Conversely at RMR bullets you can get 230 grain jacketed pistol bullets (same rough equivalent in total materials used) for under .18 cents per bullet. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but I fail to see why it should be double the cost to produce for a similar amount of materials used.

I usually just skim longer posts like yours unless it's interesting. Saw the 220gn Sierra pulldowns and sent em - my bad.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

As the title asks where has the precision reloading market failed you in providing desired products? More specifically the bullet manufactures? Why do I ask, well recently I changed jobs and the company I now work for is looking to move into the 2A market space and the first step being explored is projectile manufacturing, I now have a front row seat to the process and the ability to influence the direction of the outcome moving forward. Therefore, I want to know from my fellow shooters here on the Hide what products are you currently looking for that are unavailable from or not even considered by the major players in the market today? I look forward to the informative replies from you all.

All you have to do is open a primer factory. Can't fail, should be easy.