Where or who is buying all the ammo & loading supplies?

[Jkedsnake]

So, where is all the stuff going? I've seen videos and read several emails from factory CEO's assuring all that they are fully operational and in some cases have expanded their output. With that said, where is all of it going? These "big factories" like Federal, Hornady etc. Etc. Have the capacity to push out an obscene amount of goods on a daily basis and the shortage has been going on for months now. Not counting all the "small" cartridge and brass loading houses.
This has led me to go down the rabbit hole and start pondering conspiracies about this.
I have not looked through the GSA to find out if the government is buying up all the goods but, not impossible either, and if so why?
Or are there just that many "regular" folk buying it up?
Or are we that far down shits creek without a paddle and aren't even able to source the raw materials domestically?
What are you're opinions? Or conspiracies?

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Secret agents...

 

[Huskydriver]

This your first election year as a reloader?

 

[dustingaunder]

It used to be stored on store shelves across the country. People would walk by a fully stocked ammo shelf and feel comfort that they could come get it when they needed it and spend their money on something else today. Once it started getting bought up that comfort went away and now it’s sitting on shelves in garages and closets across the country. Now that the store shelves are bare, people wait in line for the stores to open to take whatever they can get and store it at home instead of in the store. Once enough people are comfortable with the amount they have at home, they’ll walk by the few boxes at the store and those few boxes will start to comfort others into walking past them. After a while the store shelves will be flush again and the cycle will repeat.

 

[iashooter]

Hoarding.....whether they need it or not. Also, resellers making profits (scalping).

 

[chevy_man]

Guess where all the small and boutique loaders get their primers, brass, bullets, and powder...


What we've seen locally, guy wants a couple boxes a year. Comes in, sees the shelf empty or nearly there. He buys every box on the shelf.

Guys that shoot 50 rounds a year are buying 1000 rnd cases because "that's a 20 year supply".

Guys like me have been loading and shooting 5000 rnds every year for awhile.

People are buying new and need to start. They're also going to classes and listening when they're told they need to practice.



What we need is for Federal to build a private lake city sized facility. They're probably the only ones that could really afford to do it.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

It used to be stored on store shelves across the country. People would walk by a fully stocked ammo shelf and feel comfort that they could come get it when they needed it and spend their money on something else today. Once it started getting bought up that comfort went away and now it’s sitting on shelves in garages and closets across the country. Now that the store shelves are bare, people wait in line for the stores to open to take whatever they can get and store it at home instead of in the store. Once enough people are comfortable with the amount they have at home, they’ll walk by the few boxes at the store and those few boxes will start to comfort others into walking past them. After a while the store shelves will be flush again and the cycle will repeat.

This right here. The psychology related to mass consumer behavior in society is so complicated that it can be a subject of it's own...

People desire what they cannot have and often ignore things in abundance. That is why clean fresh water has never been an issue on the minds of anyone living in places where there is a thoroughly modern and operational supply and plumbing system. However, have a water main break temporarily shut off or disrupt supply to one neighborhood, and suddenly, the ONLY thing on peoples' minds in the affected area will be panic over the availability of fresh water...

THIS is exactly how the toilet paper panic of 2020 began. TP and bottled water have long since been considered items of high priority in the minds of media-consuming urbanites since the Y2K threat. Thus, any approaching crisis, whether it be a virus, sharknado outbreak, or killer clowns from outer space, would be associated with a sudden urge to stock up on bottled water and TP. When the first group of people started to buy everything off of the shelves, leading to empty shelves, these empty shelves triggered further panic in the rest of the population, setting off an accelerating chain reaction.

 

[LawnMM]

It's simple math... We had 8 million new gun owners last year, not counting any repeat buyers. There were 4 million nics checks in January alone.

Say 12 million people bought a gun in the last year (it's much higher) and each bought a box of 50 to go with their new firearm...

600,000,000 rounds...

And that's waaaaaaay low and conservative. Make sense now?

 

[MCSO1357]

Your mom knows

 

[BufordTJustice]

It's AJ...or aliens?

 

[AManWearingAHat]

One of the videos Federal's president put out summarized it well

How ever many tens of millions of new gun owners there are x 2 boxes per gun owner = an insane demand peak that will take months to catch up to in production. Demand is insane right now and the mass psychology of scarcity is driving it further.

 

[Rlb40x]

It’s slowly coming back but you have to be quick.
I found H4350 for a normal price the other evening, and it sold out before I could complete check out.
I did find 16lbs of staball and 10 lbs of 4451.
didn’t get caught flat footed, I remember the Clinton obumer days and stayed prepared.

A local shop has 8lbers of H4350, but told me I wouldn’t like the price, $450, I passed.
He said guys were buying from him and instantly putting it on gun broker.
He was trying to keep primers at $48 per 1000 and one box limit to spread it around some.
He’s a good guy, usually has decent prices, a little higher than normal, but said the guys were cleaning him out for resale.
He’s in a rural area, probably 20 miles from town. Out the Ridge and across the hollow for me. It is nice to have a rural shop, no go to town.

 

[M8541Reaper]

This your first election year as a reloader?

Right? We go through this every 4 years and people still haven’t caught on.

OP,
It has an average buffer of 6 months on the front and back ends. Come June/July we’ll start to see a shift and by winter we’ll be somewhere back to normal.

If any of this has shown anything, it’s that switch barrels/calibers are the only ones to thrive during these periods. “Oh, what’s that? The local box store has 1000rds of _____ caliber no one shoots for non-panic prices? I’ll take all of it.” ::spins on new barrel and heads to range as to not shoot up the stockpile of good stuff::

 

[Moose]

Same stupid shit happened when Obama first got elected.It sucks but it will pass.

 

[devildog93]

Guess where all the small and boutique loaders get their primers, brass, bullets, and powder...


What we've seen locally, guy wants a couple boxes a year. Comes in, sees the shelf empty or nearly there. He buys every box on the shelf.

Guys that shoot 50 rounds a year are buying 1000 rnd cases because "that's a 20 year supply".

Guys like me have been loading and shooting 5000 rnds every year for awhile.

People are buying new and need to start. They're also going to classes and listening when they're told they need to practice.



What we need is for Federal to build a private lake city sized facility. They're probably the only ones that could really afford to do it.

I really doubt anyone is going to take a chance on building a facility when the chance of having it regulated and taxed out of existence is so high.

 

[devildog93]

Same stupid shit happened when Obama first got elected.It sucks but it will pass.

If you think this is the same as when Obama got elected i would love to check back in with you in a year and see what gun and ammo changes have come down from on high. It isn't the same. They are now all in. They know they can cheat and no one will do anything about it. The steamroll is about to begin i would imagine.

 

[rady]

Hoarding.....whether they need it or not. Also, resellers making profits (scalping).

I agree that's part of the equation along with the media frenzy that scares people, and those looking to take advantage of the shortages.

Using the term scalping is a bit extreme don't you think? Let's be P.C. and refer to it as GOUGING, as it elicits all kinds of retarded chimp reactions here on the hide. . Mostly from some vendors and bot users that have no problem with scalping and gouging. Also you get a lot of the "Oh no, another gouging thread" reactions, yet there are plenty of repeats of topics here on the Hide, and no one seems to mind that. I just find this topic really entertaining from a people perspective.

Listen to the experts here and there is no such thing as gouging or scalping. According to chatter here on the Hide, you're a commie anti-capitalist if you believe that the practice of scalping/gouging exists.

 

[acudaowner]

I am sorry it was me in my dreams , lol better to have and not need than to need and not have . But what little I really got is a drop in the bucket to some lucky people god bless them . its all up to you the buyer I am going to keep buying what I can while i can not stopping at 6 reloads worth of supplies when no one knows what crazy bills will be passed tomorrow . If it blows over and everything goes back to some sort of normal I would be super happy call me a crazy old fool , but if things go the other way I wanna know I got what I need and enough of it to last for a little while .

 

[Seed tick]

I’m going with Secret Agents, probably from Russia

 

[rustyinbend]

It used to be stored on store shelves across the country. People would walk by a fully stocked ammo shelf and feel comfort that they could come get it when they needed it and spend their money on something else today. Once it started getting bought up that comfort went away and now it’s sitting on shelves in garages and closets across the country. Now that the store shelves are bare, people wait in line for the stores to open to take whatever they can get and store it at home instead of in the store. Once enough people are comfortable with the amount they have at home, they’ll walk by the few boxes at the store and those few boxes will start to comfort others into walking past them. After a while the store shelves will be flush again and the cycle will repeat.

This describes me, spot-on. I saw this coming, and stocked up. When things got scarce, I got more stuff wherever it came available. Now I've got plenty for a couple of years, and I just watch everyone else panic that didn't plan for this. Excellent description.

 

[BytorJr]

1) Blue Sky Country has scared me...what's this about Clowns from outer space? Scarrrry!!!

2) Theory 1: Army Jerry has been cloned thousands of times

3) People don't trust what the powers-that-be will do: ban sales over internet, limit quantity available to purchase, background checks, etc, etc. I could go on how anti-gun this country has become all because of a few planned areas of massive shootings: Chitcago, LA, Detroit, Baltimore, etc. These areas could come under control but it goes against the narrative that guns kill people, one race against another, impoverished areas need more federal money. Simply put, arrest the people doing these shootings and never let them see the light of day again. Charge them on domestic terrorism and send them to GITMO...case closed, city cleaned up.

4) People dreaming that in 6-8 months the supply chain will be back to normal are smoking crack. Simply put, there is no way for that to happen. EVERY single caliber is just about gone, and EVERY single caliber is at least 2x the price it was if not 6-10x. I saw ARMSCOR 22LR for $1700 per 1000 rnds....that was less than $240 a year ago. No manufacturer is going to expand knowing that either the industry is going to be shackled by biden/harris/commies or that IF they catch up the market will go soft again.

Just peruse ammoseek an put in any caliber and see how short the supply is. It will take YEARS to get that back for the less popular rounds...hell, even 270 which isn't exactly not popular, will take years to recoup. There is not the manufacturing capability. These plants make a run of something, then switch. It's not like they are going to make "your caliber here" 24/7/365. They may be doing 9mm/45/40/38, 223, 308 like that but they are not going to be diving into running a line exclusive for say 300PRC 24/7/365.

5) The "millions" of new gun owners doesn't fit. Of those millions, how many millions already have guns? That NICS check does not mean new gun owners.

Summary is that this time is different; previously people had some belief that voting was fair, that the republicants wouldn't cave and could be "trusted" to keep the promise made to We the People by The Founders. Now, all that "hope and trust" has been washed away like dirt on the sidewalk.

 

[IronicTwitch]

I started shooting USPSA in 2012 and by Jan 2013 it was tough finding 9mm. 35 cents a round for what had been 15 cents a round. Reloading supplies took about 2 years to come back. In 2019 we got 25% rebates on primers. That's when you stock up for a few years.

It appears that price gouging (or extraordinary demand) is different this time around. 9mm prices were 25 cents per round 12 months ago. I'd expected around 50 cents a round (2x like in 2013) not what we're seeing now with 4x and up.

Sit on the sidelines and wait it out. I'll be the guy that actually shoots what I've got. Hoping 3 years from now will be back to normal supply with prices adjusted only for inflation and not political hype.

 

[Deleted member 173458]

I normally dont worry and just wait these things out but I think this time may be a little different.

 

[Doc68]

Hoarding.....whether they need it or not. Also, resellers making profits (scalping).

No man, I'm very assured that it's the free market and not scalpers/gougers.

Doc

 

[DocRDS]

No man, I'm very assured that it's the free market and not scalpers/gougers.

Doc

Yeah I hear that. We know we got the hoarders, problem is as frustrating as it can be, outlawing or setting up some sort of regulation would just make it 10X worse. Just got to ride it out. Even though I had supplies, that nagging feeling hits me:
"Buy MOAR"
"STFU you are saving for an AI"
"No you want an Impact"
"Buy Primers for 6 mm"
"Which one"
"FFS At least get some Varget"
"YOU ARE DOWN TO YOUR LAST 1000 of 308 GET MOAR BRASS"
"OK boomer"
"Go Buy a TRUCK"
"STFU YOU THIS IS ABOUT GUNS"
"You need another can"
"But we need to load develop for 6.5 and be cool!"
"SHutup we can only get 4451!"
"Hey what about that 300WinMag--you need powder for it too!!"

The voices in my head are getting surly.

 

[308pirate]

OP,
It has an average buffer of 6 months on the front and back ends. Come June/July we’ll start to see a shift and by winter we’ll be somewhere back to normal.

I think the correction will take much longer than that this time. At least when it comes to reloading supplies/

 

[308pirate]

I agree that's part of the equation along with the media frenzy that scares people, and those looking to take advantage of the shortages.

Using the term scalping is a bit extreme don't you think? Let's be P.C. and refer to it as GOUGING, as it elicits all kinds of retarded chimp reactions here on the hide. . Mostly from some vendors and bot users that have no problem with scalping and gouging. Also you get a lot of the "Oh no, another gouging thread" reactions, yet there are plenty of repeats of topics here on the Hide, and no one seems to mind that. I just find this topic really entertaining from a people perspective.

Listen to the experts here and there is no such thing as gouging or scalping. According to chatter here on the Hide, you're a commie anti-capitalist if you believe that the practice of scalping/gouging exists.

The only ones with retarded chimp reactions are those who got caught with their pants down and their hands on their weiner.

 

[308pirate]

I really doubt anyone is going to take a chance on building a facility when the chance of having it regulated and taxed out of existence is so high.

Or sit idle after a few years when the balloon we're inflating blows up.

Those who think ammo companies should expand should STFU and either front them the capital at zero interest and a 50 year maturity or better yet extend them loan guarantees so they get their ROI no matter what the market does in the future.

 

[Doc68]

I don't mind people hoarding the stuff that actually will use it. It's the people buying all of it just to resell. That's what is creating the issues.

Doc

 

[brianf]

How is there possibly another reloading /Ammo shortage thread.

 

[frank320]

I don't mind people hoarding the stuff that actually will use it. It's the people buying all of it just to resell. That's what is creating the issues.

Doc

Exactly. I will even add that if you bought your supplies before this crazy spike in prices, and take this opportunity to sell your inventory at current prices, good for you and absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Its the folks that sense blood in the water, sweep up ammo that they don't need, just to resell. A lot of these resellers have better access to supplies as they get restocked, and they sweep up as much as they can and corner it, not use or shoot, but just to resell and drive prices higher for their benefit.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

Hoarding.....whether they need it or not. Also, resellers making profits (scalping).

This. Drop the stupid price fixing conspiracies. Demand for existing owners hoarding, the millions of new buyers, and the gunbroker scalpers has eaten all ammo and reloading capacity. That is the reality.

While it's incovienent today, in the big picture this is a good thing. The more out in the hands of gun owners, ranges, museums, gun safety teachers, hunters, reloaders, competitors just makes these all more common in society and that much harder to justify consficating en mass in the future. The silver lining sucks, but the more that ownership can be normalized the better.

 

[TxWelder35]

Exactly. I will even add that if you bought your supplies before this crazy spike in prices, and take this opportunity to sell your inventory at current prices, good for you and absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Its the folks sense blood in the water, sweep up ammo that they don't need, just to resell. A lot of these resellers have better access to supplies as they get restocked, and they sweep up as much as they can and corner it, not use or shoot, but just to resell and drive prices higher for their benefit.

this. There is definitely a local group that goes to all the big box stores, they somehow have an in when the supply truck is going to arrive with more ammo, they get there at store open, shovel as much as they can into their cart, then immediately turn around and sell it on gunbroker/local gun traders, flea markets etc. people doing this causes the panic of not seeing stuff on the shelves as stated above and thus physiologically driving up demand, and these idiots buying all the local supply and them demanding ridiculous pricing then inflames things even worse.

I’m sorry but if you are going to the store and buying out inventory solely to sell it at 5x retail you are an asshole.

these big box stores need to quit selling to the same people that are buying out their supply every time it comes in, and websites need to do a better job about banning bots

 

[Aaros143]

What bothers me is the lie. I part time at a gun shop and our cost on ammo has not risen.

I always kinda secret shop when I go into other stores, everyone always says that cost has gone up, worldwide lead shortage, aliens invaded, whatever they want to say to justify $50 for a box of 9mm.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

My friend Anna is buying up all sorts of ammunition being she shoots on average of 3k rounds of 9mm a day along with 1k rounds of 12ga and about 2k rounds of 223 per week, lololol



She doesn't have a problem finding ammunition....

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[ZiaHunter]

Been through this drill several times and learned after the first round to stock up on key components when the market settles. Buying when you need and not when you don't is a fools proposition. Have enough components to let me roll my own into the next decade without slowing down with my level of shooting. This goes for barrel blanks as well. You don't want to be in the position of waiting 12 months for new barrel when your existing barrel let go and you have matches coming up.

 

[thejeep]

At least tp is back. I mean wtf hoards that?

 

[Steel head]

Started stocking up in February.
Comrade Obama taught me a lesson years ago.

I see an Anna inspired fap in my near future.

 

[iashooter]

At least tp is back. I mean wtf hoards that?

When the new Russian "runny shits" virus comes out, people will hoard toothpaste. Stock up now!

 

[Lunar95]

Or better yet, who is buying normally priced $1.10 for $4 on gunbroker? Im just trying to get some 6.5 to zero a new optic and hog hunt a bit...

 

[Newbie2020]

Hi,

My friend Anna is buying up all sorts of ammunition being she shoots on average of 3k rounds of 9mm a day along with 1k rounds of 12ga and about 2k rounds of 223 per week, lololol



She doesn't have a problem finding ammunition....

Sincerely,
Theis

@THEIS I’ll carry your luggage on your next trip to Chechnya.....personal valet, or whatever.

 

[Josh1978]

This your first election year as a reloader?

It is mine and damn it’s a hard lesson to learn. Lol

 

[nesikabay]

If your including 22 ammo Im a hoarder . I have plenty and have more on the way. I dont sell it i shoot the shit load of 22s. The next shipment of SK should be in the US first week in March

 

[nesikabay]

If you cant find 22 ammo. The problem is your waiting on it to show up. By time it shows up> people like me have allready bought it

 

[Im2bent]

Whacha talking bout Willis? Here ya go....

IMI 9mm Luger Ammo 115 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point Box of 50

IMI is a defense systems house specializing in the development, integration, manufacturing and life cycle support of modern land, air and naval combat...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Jethro3898]

A little bit of a story to explain where much of the ammo is likely going:

Back a few years when the last ammo scare happened (back when 22LR was the hottest of commodities) I went into a local Academy at lunch time to see the carnage. I was walking through the ammo aisle and little old lady asked a worker if they had any 22LR. The worker told her they didn't and had no idea when they would be able to get any. When the lady turned around:

me: "So you're looking for some 22, also?"
her: "Yes. I can't seem to find any."
me: "Me either. I don't really understand the run on 22. Do you shoot a lot of 22?" (I wasn't trying to be mean, but this lady was O...L....D......like a few steps away from needing a walker. I was genuinely intrigued that she still got out and liked to shoot.)
her: "No."
me: "How much are you looking to buy?"
her: "I was told I should buy as much as they would let me have."
me: "Pretty good advice, but I think they limit it to two boxes or something like that. Pistol or rifle?"
her: "What do you mean?"
me: "Do you need the ammo for your pistol or your rifle?" (I guess I was trying to envision this lady shooting anything.)
her: "I don't have one."
me: "You don't have any guns that fire 22LR ammo?"
her: "No."
me: "Then why are you in here looking for 22LR ammo?"
her: "Someone told me you couldn't find it anywhere and that if I found any I had better buy it."

If that kind of lunacy happens in South Alabama, you can bet your sweet bottom it happens everywhere around this country. I have never in my life ever been tempted to purchase ammo for firearms I do not own. I had to drive to Houston, TX last week and stopped in a Cabela's off I-10. I just wanted to see if they had anything. Other than a few boxes of 28ga shotshells, they had 1 box of 375 H&H Magnum ammo. I didn't buy the 28ga or the 375 ammo......because I do not own any firearms for them.

The thing about panic is that it is rarely justified.

What really surprises me is the people gobbling up powder and primers.....who likely have no reloading equipment.
Over the next couple of years you will see dozens of posts of people blowing their firearms to pieces because they decided to get into the reloading game since they bought all that powder and primers.

 

[chevy_man]

What really surprises me is the people gobbling up powder and primers.....who likely have no reloading equipment.
Over the next couple of years you will see dozens of posts of people blowing their firearms to pieces because they decided to get into the reloading game since they bought all that powder and primers.

If I only had a nickel for everyone that has told me "I just load the hottest load in the book" or the "I just use the most accurate one in the book, they mark it for you!"

But like everything in life, stupid people have just as much freedom to do as they like as the rest of us.

 

[Im2bent]

22 ammo

Ammunition at EABCO

Centerfire and Rimfire Ammunitions by Lapua, SK, Hornady, EABCO, and Others... Filtered at Left!

www.eabco.net

 

[Sniperwannabee]

So, where is all the stuff going? I've seen videos and read several emails from factory CEO's assuring all that they are fully operational and in some cases have expanded their output. With that said, where is all of it going? These "big factories" like Federal, Hornady etc. Etc. Have the capacity to push out an obscene amount of goods on a daily basis and the shortage has been going on for months now. Not counting all the "small" cartridge and brass loading houses.
This has led me to go down the rabbit hole and start pondering conspiracies about this.
I have not looked through the GSA to find out if the government is buying up all the goods but, not impossible either, and if so why?
Or are there just that many "regular" folk buying it up?
Or are we that far down shits creek without a paddle and aren't even able to source the raw materials domestically?
What are you're opinions? Or conspiracies?

Why I love SH.. found this gem of a post concerning primer shortage

thank you @CSAR FE !!!! I love it😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Monday through Friday, old timers who are retired stand outside of every gun shop in town an hour before they open, and wait. Shop opens. They descend on the place like a swarm of geriatric locusts and buy everything. They go home, place it on...

www.snipershide.com

 

[Tiger_Shilone]

lol, found this today