Which 308 gasser should I buy? Accuracy is a big factor on my selection.

[338LM_Sniper]

I am looking to get into the 308 game and I would like some input on which 308 semi automatic rifle to buy that would give me the best accuracy. Please let me know which model and why you think its the best for accuracy. I have been doing research on a few different companies like GAP, Knights, Les Baer, Armalite but I would like to hear some input from an experienced gasser shooters on which one to buy.

Thx

 

[Tonsofguns]

I've owned the lmt mws, gap 10, and scar 17. All three were accurate. The gap 10 was shooting .3, mws .5, scar .75 with match Ammo. However in terms of reliability my experience was scar>mws>gap 10.
for me reliability is most important, so i sold the gap and mws and doubled up on the scar.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

I knew that the scar 17 was battle proven and super reliable, but I had no idea that it had match grade accuracy? Does it maintain sub moa accuracy out to distance?

 

[Tonsofguns]

3/4 inches are my best 5 shot groups with the rifle (Fgm 168) I would say the rifle overall is an Moa rifle with match Ammo. I rarely get to shoot past 300 yards, so hard to tell. For a longer distance shooting, you might be better off with an 18 and 20 inch barrel on the gap and mws. Another thing to keep in mind is that the scar has a pencil thin barrel where the gap and mws have heavier profile barrels. In the end though my scar eats everything, and that wasn't my experience with a 20 inch mws and an 18 inch gap 10

 

[padom]

Take the above accuracy numbers with a grain of salt. I would love to see all 3 of those rifles produce 6x5 targets. I assure you none of them would result in the numbers posted above. Will they sometimes shoot a group that measures the above numbers, sure. But they will not consistently shoot those numbers. A GAP10 is an accurate rifle, it is not a 0.3moa rifle by a long shot.

You wont find many people that shoot custom bolts guns across a 6x5 that result in 0.3moa... We need to get off this my gun shot a group that measured .325" so its a 0.3moa gun BS.

 

[padom]

Now back to the OP. You will want to add JP into your mix. They are very accurate factory guns. If you want to save money and have every aspect of the gun be exactly as you want and it be very accurate you can build your own as well. Bartlein barrel, billet ambi matching receiver set, Geissele SSA-E or SD-E trigger, JP BCG, Magpul PRS stock, SLR adjustable gas block, take your pick of handguards (Geissele, SLR, Daniel Defense, Seekins, keymod, mlok, etc), JP SCS or standard 308 rifle buffer, ERGO grip, etc. You can have the best of everything and have it exactly as you want it for cheaper than the above rifles and it will be more accurate than "most" of them.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Fair enough. I was giving my best set of groups. And those groups weren't done once, they've been done almost a handful of times.
the problem with using averages is that it incorporates user error. Maybe might be more accurate to say that the scar is moa, lmt 3/4, and gap .5 inch rifles with match grade ammo

Take the above accuracy numbers with a grain of salt. I would love to see all 3 of those rifles produce 6x5 targets. I assure you none of them would result in the numbers posted above. Will they sometimes shoot a group that measures the above numbers, sure. But they will not consistently shoot those numbers. A GAP10 is an accurate rifle, it is not a 0.3moa rifle by a long shot.

You wont find many people that shoot custom bolts guns across a 6x5 that result in 0.3moa... We need to get off this my gun shot a group that measured .325" so its a 0.3moa gun BS.

 

[padom]

Fair enough. I was giving my best set of groups. And those groups weren't done once, they've been done almost a handful of times.
the problem with using averages is that it incorporates user error. Maybe might be more accurate to say that the scar is moa, lmt 3/4, and gap .5 inch rifles with match grade ammo

Only if the user is not capable. Using a bigger sample set tell you what the rifle is truly capable of. My experience with all 3 of those guns is GAP10 just under 3/4moa 6x5, LMT 3/4moa to submoa 6x5 and SCAR17 1.25moa 6x5 at best. We dont measure guns accuracy around here by cherry picked groups. If that was the case I have a 0.080" 6.5x47L, a 0.1" 223 Bolt gun, a .25" 308 gasser, etc etc..... Accuracy is measured on what the gun can repeatably do time after time. Not something it did one time. Take your guns, go out and shoot 5x5 or 6x5 and see what I mean.

Example, this is a 0.5moa 300blk AR - 7x5 @ 100yds

 

[Tonsofguns]

i hear you, the thing is doing 6 5 shots consecutively, 98percent of the time there is a good amount of user error. I don't care how good you are at shooting.
that being the case if you buy a bolt gap rifle and they promise 3/8 Moa, but 98percent of people can't achieve that on a 6 5, does that mean it's not a 3/8 Moa rifle?

 

[padom]

Really? If YOU arent capable of 3/8 moa or shooting a 6x5 thats on you. Not the rifle. Just because you arent capable of it doesnt mean you get to say the rifle is a 0.3moa rifle because you shot one group that measured 0.3moa. And thats where you practicing your shooting comes into play. If GAP can achieve that with the rifle in question then yes, its a 3/8moa rifle. Your adding the human factor into the equation. We arent talking about that, we are talking about capability of a gun and putting out false numbers because of cherry picked groups.

I can tell you those guns dont consistently shoot those numbers, Ive owned and shot heavily all 3. My opinion, the SCAR17 is a proven, elite battle rifle but is not a submoa gun or precision rifle. Does it shoot submoa groups here and there, yes. LMT is a very accurate gun, but it does not consistently shoot 0.5moa. Thats tough to do with ANY large frame gasser. A GAP10 and JP rifles shoot a lot of sub 0.5moa groups but on avg are between 0.5-0.75moa consistently. Most guys cant do this because driving a gasser is an entirely different animal that takes a lot of practice.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Of course one group at .3 would be irrelevant. But when 5 out of 15 groups measure that, it gives me a good idea of the rifles capabilities.
Maybe I have no idea what consistent shooting is, but I am suspicious of your claims to be able to go out and shoot 6 5 consistently, without any user error.

 

[padom]

The most accurate gasser Ive ever shot and the most accurate gassers Ive seen shot in person, custom built ones with Bartlein, Kreiger, Rock Creek cut rifled barrels with properly headspaced bolts and handloads. My 22" Bartlein 6.5cm is more accurate then the more than a dozen factory large frame gassers Ive ever owned.

 

[padom]

Of course one group at .3 would be irrelevant. But when 5 out of 15 groups measure that, it gives me a good idea of the rifles capabilities.
Maybe I have no idea what consistent shooting is, but I am suspicious of your claims to be able to go out and shoot 6 5 consistently, without any user error.

Your suspicious? Spend a little more time here. And see my above target

 

[Tonsofguns]

Your above target is impressive no doubt, but with the dozen gasser guns you've owned, how many times can you produce that?

QUOTE=padom;n6646635]

Your suspicious? Spend a little more time here. And see my above target [/QUOTE]

 

[padom]

Not all my guns are capable of that. Hence the entire point of this entire discussion!! Like I said, search around.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

I was told that the Les Baer 24" Match rifle is the most accurate of all of the gassers? I have seen their test targets that they ship with their rifles and both targets are 5 shots in a ragged little hole. Now do they put the rifle in a vise to acheive those groups? And are Les Baer rifles better than lets say a GAP-10?

 

[padom]

They are very accurate but way overpriced imo. You can build a rifle just as accurate for less and have it exactly how you want it.

 

[SRPowah]

I want to see a .3 moa 10 shot group out of a gas gun...

 

[houndog]

Always enjoy these discussions and find them enlightening on a number of levels. Interesting to see what a diverse group of people are getting with particular manufacturers, as well as what some of the best shooters are capable of getting with the most accurate guns. However, inevitably these discussions suffer from a couple of flaws. First, there is a natural tendency to exaggerate both our own prowess and that of our rifles. I know I always seem to have a much easier time remembering my best groups, as opposed to my worst. Sub MOA all day is different than 50-60% of my groups are sub MOA. 20% of my groups are .50 MOA is not the same thing as "my rifle is a .50 MOA rifle".

Also, we all have different abilities. Being consistently perfect when shooting a .308 gas gun is hard. Very hard. Unfortunately, there isn't a .308 gas gun that would be consistently sub MOA in my hands, no matter how accurate it is because I am frequently less than perfect. I don't load the bipod precisely the same way from shot to shot. I don't get exactly behind the scope. I don't follow through properly. I anticipate the recoil or jerk the trigger.

Moreover, not all guns made by the same mfg. are consistently the same. Maybe you luck out and get a super accurate barrel. The next guy isn't so lucky. With the top mfg. there will be some consistency between rifles, but no 2 rifles are exactly the same.

Finally, what ammo are you shooting? Some people shoot cheap ass xm193 and complain that there rifle is 2+MOA. Others hand load and spend considerable time and energy analyzing bullets, powders, cases, seating depth, etc. to find the absolute perfect load for their rifle. Even if everything else is equal, different ammo will yield widely different results.

About the best you can hope for is to try to find posters who seem to be reliable and honest, and see what groups these guys, in the aggregate, seem to be shooting with a particular rifle.

 

[SRPowah]

In all seriousness, JP or GAP is my recommendation. I don't have any personal experience with a GAP firearm, but I like accuracy guarantees considering an AR tossed together with match grade parts can still be finicky 1moa rifles for some shooters.

 

[19Scout77]

Take a look at F & D Defense. 22" Bartlein Barrel. Clean running piston. Simple yet effective infinitely adjustable block, Geisselle trigger. PRS stock. Perfect fit finish. I have a 6.5 and 308 upper and both are equally accurate with perfect function. The accuracy is on par with my old JP.

 

[djarecke]

Your above target is impressive no doubt, but with the dozen gasser guns you've owned, how many times can you produce that?

QUOTE=padom;n6646635]

Your suspicious? Spend a little more time here. And see my above target

[/QUOTE]

I'm glad you said that, padom. If your weapon system is a .3, you should be able to shoot .3" every time you sit your fat ass at the bench. If you can't, then how can you possibly claim that that is the accuracy level of your rifle?

I've been looking at 308 gassers now for a while and have come to a similar conclusion - a 1/2" AR10 is a rarity. Rarer still is someone that knows how to drive it to a 1/2 MOA every time. Hell, I shoot with some of the best shooters in the country and .3 with a bolt gun is rare.

 

[Firemn260]

I took some great advice from knowledgeable guys on here and built my own. It was the best thing I could have done because researching the parts through countless posts and reviews is half the fun in my opinion. And I ended up with a rifle that has top shelf parts for about the same price as I could of bought a factory build for. It's set up the way I want it and its way more accurate than I'll ever be able to shoot it.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

Thanks guys for all your help. I am going to build my own the way I want it.

 

[samnev]

I own a Scar 17S, LMT MWSE, a Les Baer Match Sniper, a LaRue OBR and Predator OBR. My accuracy with the SCAR 17S is the same as Padom's most groups 1.25 moa with an occasional group around 1 moa. Same with the 16" LMT. The Les Baer despite the factory target showing one ragged hole which I have never been able to duplicate runs about 0.5-0.75 moa with an occasional group less then 0.5 moa. My LaRure's are my most accurate 308 gassers. The OBR and Predator OBR (once I changed the RAT stock to a PRS stock usually average around 0.6 moa with many groups under 0.5 moa. All rifle shot with 5 shot 100 yard groups using FGMM 168's or tailored 168 grain hand loads.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

Great info.

Thanks

 

[NukeMMC]

I have 2 large frame ARs.

First is an AR10 built from Armalite AR10b upper/lower with a 20" WOP 1:10" barrel. I bought the rifle 3rd hand off the old Scout site. It shoots extremely well, frequently shooting sub-moa groups, but more importantly, shooting VERY reliably between distances from 100 out to 1000. I shoot M118LR, FGMM168 & 175 and my own loads (175SMKs) thru it almost always suppressed. 100% reliable for the 1200 rds I have cycled thru it thus far. Yes, you can build a large frame AR that is accurate.

Second is a GAP10 Gen2. It is in 260, not 308, so temper my comments about that rifle as I know you're looking at a 308. The GAP10 has <150rds thru it and I am just starting to develop a load for it (shot a bunch of Prime in it). It is a solid MOA rifle with Prime, hence my pursuit of a better load. I really enjoy tinkering with reloading so searching different factory loads isn't my gig. I found that it likes the 140SMKs moving at a moderate 2700fps, shooting quite consistent sub-moa (I still work for a living and don't get more than about 6-8 hours of range time a month lately, so I am grossly out of practice). As for reliable function, I haven't seen a bit of issue with the rifle, short of me needing to tune it for running suppressed. It is rough on case heads with ejector swipes, but then again, so is the Armalite. I certainly see the potential this rifle has to be VERY accurate. I just need to find the load(s) it likes to realize that potential. For magazines, I have used PMAGs, KAC and DPMS, so far and all run well. Quite sure that if you have any reliability issues with a GAP of any flavor, George gets it fixed. IIRC, he personally gets involved with all warranty issues.

Either of these rifles is certainly more accurate than the Match Grade A M14 I went Distinguished with when I shot on the Navy Team, much less any of the NM M1As I have owned, including a couple Kreiger barreled versions, one of which consistently cleaned 300 with M852 with my highest x-count at 5 (Interservice at Quantico, no less).

 

[bigjake83]

Of course one group at .3 would be irrelevant. But when 5 out of 15 groups measure that, it gives me a good idea of the rifles capabilities.
Maybe I have no idea what consistent shooting is, but I am suspicious of your claims to be able to go out and shoot 6 5 consistently, without any user error.

Ok first off>>> tonsofguns<<<you need to just go back and lick your wounds and stop stating facts that are just complete bullshit...

PADOM is a "PRECISION" AR Shooter and so am I, and Elfster. We know what it is to shoot ARs Big and Small Block consistently at .5-.25 MOA.

Now Samnev IMO for as long as I have seen him, and read from his words is more of a Military/Battle Steel Ringer Shooter.. so different strokes for different folks... And it's quite clear from his above statement, about the that Les Bear and LaRue performing about the same, which has absolutely nothing to do with the guns it just proves that Samnev is a point .75 -.5 MOA shooter at his best and that is his capabilities. Which is very respectable. ... About 80% of the public, even after years of shooting can't even perform an 1 MOA 6x5 so just take that into context.

Now what I can tell you... And back to your original question about the rifle and not the shooters opinion.

These are the three most accurate rifles on the market right now, ..possibly four?....

(1) Custom Build by a AR Master Smith...(too many details to cover in one post)

(2) Les Baer DOES make the most accurate rifles on the market is terms of PURE ACCURACY NOT ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY THERE IS A VERY DELICATE LINE BETWEEN THOSE TWO.

(3) JP LRP07.. this is where you find the sub .75 MOA accuracy with unwavering reliability. From EVERY JP Complete Built JP LRP07 rifle, and you're also gonna get a strong Mexican Standoff, due to these rifles performing about the same, just having different characteristics and features which are the OBR and the KAC SR25 APR.

(4) Now the new 4th possible runner-up is the Falkor Petra Rifles with the Draco's barrels... They are quite literally a aerospace engineering company who has decided to make firearms, and they are redefining the way Firearms work as we speak and are producing barrels with lifetime warranties which is absolutely unheard of!! And with quarter to half MOA guarantees.

So IMO 100% Buy the JP LRP07 with the new 22" +2 Barrel and custom tune it with some hand loads to keep her at .5 MOA.


The reason I say for you to pick the middle choice is because it's quite clear that you're new to this and you're also not going to be proficient semi-automatic shooter, because if you were you wouldn't have posted this thread. people who are half - quarter MOA shooters are well-versed in the AR world, which is something that takes time and discipline way above anything you have to do with the bolt action gun.

I hope you find your way OP, and if you need anything more then that from me or Padom just ask... And Rambo .... I'm mean Samnev will be happy to help as well.

 

[Lrdchaos]

I just picked up a Larue Predatobr yesterday. I haven't shot the rifle yet but they are supposed to shoot Moa or under before they leave the factory.

 

[houndog]

I just picked up a Larue Predatobr yesterday. I haven't shot the rifle yet but they are supposed to shoot Moa or under before they leave the factory.

Yes, but it's a 3 shot group. A little tougher with 5 shots. Having said that I own a Larue upper in .223. In my hands it averages slightly above 1 MOA (5 shot groups) with match ammo. But that's in my hands. And while I'm pretty consistent with my bolt guns, the gassers are more of a challenge for me, so a better shooter would be able to shrink these groups, at least a little.

 

[rockbox]

I just picked up a Larue Predatobr yesterday. I haven't shot the rifle yet but they are supposed to shoot Moa or under before they leave the factory.

I'm not an expert shooter by any means but I do see a lot of LaRues since I live in the Austin area(They are based just north of Austin) and I've seen plenty of them shoot half MOA with hand loads in a competent shooter's hands. I've also seen lot of guys who have more money than sense with them that can barely shoot 6 inch groups.

 

[padom]

I'm not an expert shooter by any means but I do see a lot of LaRues since I live in the Austin area(They are based just north of Austin) and I've seen plenty of them shoot half MOA with hand loads in a competent shooter's hands. I've also seen lot of guys who have more money than sense with them that can barely shoot 6 inch groups.

lol..and thats generally how it goes.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

I agree with padom that just because you can't shoot .3 minute groups don't mean you get to say ya have .3 minute gun.
Also, I'm sure many times there is human error involved..for one most folks here don't use wind flags when shooting at 100. Yet even tho you're shooting a nasty super sleek projo at very short range, best believe the wind is still affecting your group (s). Part of the reason BR guys shoot such itty bitty bugholes is they're paying very close attention to their wind flags. Needless to say those glued in single shot, heavy barrel, ultra-stiff stocked 6 PPC's are as accurate as rifles get..but wind is a huge factor in shooting consistent tiny aggs.
With that said, I also think there's some times where a shooter attributes a flyer (s) to some unknown mistake on said shooter's part when actually the rifle, scope, bench setup, load, etc. was to blame. Eg: put the rifle in a return-to-battery rest or some such in a shooting tunnel, and those same flyers still showin up. I ain't saying this is the case all or even most of the time, but I suspect it is the case atleast a non-neglible portion of the time.
ETA: last paragraph is moreso regarding bolt rifles. Obviously with gas guns - not driving em correctly is way more of a factor and consequently shooter error likely is the culprit for any given flier much more of the time.

 

[samnev]

Big Jake, You don't know me and have no idea who I am so stop making your uniformed judgement about me with no way to back it up. Military/Battle Steel Ringer Shooter? Pray tell how do you come to that conclusion? As far as my comment on my Les Baer I clearly said "I" was not able to reproduce the factory target group which in no way is meant to say a better shooter like Elfster couldn't do a lot better. I'm sure he could, Rambo? where or how do you come up with that assinine comment. The only thing you got right about me is with a 308 gasser I'm a 0.5-7'5 shooter. So please put your brain in gear before you open your mouth.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Also, as for the straight jacket barrels: personally I think they're a scam.
Let me clarify, maybe "scam" ain't quite the correct term. I ain't saying the barrels won't shoot. I'm just not at all convinced they can IMPROVE a barrel's inherent accuracy. Same with Proof Research. Tension/compression barrels with every media you can think of inside the tube has been tried in benchrest. One of the more promising designs IMO was a 1000yd HG which used a tension setup with large diameter tube and water on the inside. If the tube allows for consistently sized jacket of water around the barrel end to end so as to prevent inconsistent heating, it should(and was proven to in competition) shoot at the top of the ranks. Some folks still use these types of rigs on their rail guns. My point is, it's been tried every which way in BR and wasn't exactly a game changer. As I said, I doubt you'll find many guys who will say you can use such method to increase a barrel's peak potential accuracy beyond what could've been accomplished with more traditional tuning on a otherwise normal barrel. And with a system that one cant even apparently tune like the Teludyne, I ain't sure what advantage it really even brings to the table.
Alot of things one would think makes a rifle more accurate, actually dont. For instance, the idea that a stiffer barrel is always better. IMO this simply ain't the case. A BETTER barrel is always better.
AFAIK theyre the same straight jacket that theyve always been. And just like way back when, they still aint a game changer:
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...dyne-tech-—-super-accurate-ar-upper-receivers

 

[-=boone=-]

Can't believe seekins hasn't been mentioned

 

[Iamero]

Try out a DPMS LR308. I have the 20" version and the only thing that isn't factory is the trigger and the stock. it is a lot cheaper than some of the other ones mentioned and leaves the money to upgrade whatever components you see fit. I've never shot back to back groups with it but this is what it will do at 100 yards with my current load.

 

[bigjake83]

Big Jake, You don't know me and have no idea who I am so stop making your uniformed judgement about me with no way to back it up. Military/Battle Steel Ringer Shooter? Pray tell how do you come to that conclusion? As far as my comment on my Les Baer I clearly said "I" was not able to reproduce the factory target group which in no way is meant to say a better shooter like Elfster couldn't do a lot better. I'm sure he could, Rambo? where or how do you come up with that assinine comment. The only thing you got right about me is with a 308 gasser I'm a 0.5-7'5 shooter. So please put your brain in gear before you open your mouth.

I was fucking with you knucklehead.. you and I have gone rounds before on the olds Hides... I thought you would remember..

And if you want to go for a few more rounds again I will obliged you if you want to go..but I honestly can't be bothered going through version 1.o and 2.o Snipershide Threads to show your past and obvious style of shooter you are. You are NOT a precision AR Shooter, and are more of a MILITARY Style Steel ringer.

Honestly just off the top of my head I can't actually ever think of a time you ever posted a picture of shooting paper at anything over a 100 yards with a AR, it's always on Steel...

You still want to go?? Ding Ding

At this very moment I'm at the original Camp White in Medford Oregon..

 

[samnev]

Big Jake, I don't know where you think I posted pictures of steel targets. I've never shoot steel in my life. Your confusing me with someone else. If you can find a post by me showing a steel target picture I'd be interested in seeing it. For your edification I've posted 2 targets below shot at my range which only has a 100 yard rifle range with a promise to someday build a 600 yard range. The OBR average is 0.627 the AIAW average is 0.427. I'll say no more, over and out.

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i67.tinypic.com\/8x5t2w.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[drum13]

Try out a DPMS LR308. I have the 20" version and the only thing that isn't factory is the trigger and the stock. it is a lot cheaper than some of the other ones mentioned and leaves the money to upgrade whatever components you see fit. I've never shot back to back groups with it but this is what it will do at 100 yards with my current load.

This is a great idea if you don't want to spend a fortune to find out if you like shooting the semi-auto AR style guns. LR308's shoot great but fit/finish/reliability will come into play with this brand.

Also very accurate but lower cost AR's are the Armalite AR10T and Rock River LAR-8 Varmint.

People seem to always recommend the most expensive stuff here. It will be better quality.... but not everybody can afford it.

 

[338LM_Sniper]

Lamero,

A friend of mine owns a DPMS LR308 with the 24" heavy bull barrel. He installed a nice match 2 stage trigger in the weapon and I have seen him shoot 3 shots in the same hole at 100 yards a couple of times with 1/2 moa on average. Very impressive for such a low budget weapon, but he has only shot it at 100 yards and I do not think that it would hold 1/2 moa out to distance. I could be wrong?

 

[Iamero]

I don't see why it wouldn't at that point. If the gun is stacking them at 100 yards then the only real things that are going to screw than up past that distance is environmental factors or the shooter/possibly low quality optics.

Ive taken this out to 200 and put them at 1.25" with 5 shots. I don't see why that performance wouldn't continue on.

 

[padom]

Because ammo really shows it's flaws as you walk it out to distance. I've seen loads shoot tint groups at 100 but shot to shot velocity swings will cause groups to open way open as you walk it out. I just finished a test that experienced this very scenario. Getting hung up on group size and not the center of a node will get you every time once you walk it out to distance.

I have a 140 Hybrid load for my 6.5x47L that is not my most accurate load group wise at 100yds but it's the most accurate group wise at distance.

 

[bfoosh006]

Only if the user is not capable. Using a bigger sample set tell you what the rifle is truly capable of. My experience with all 3 of those guns is GAP10 just under 3/4moa 6x5, LMT 3/4moa to submoa 6x5 and SCAR17 1.25moa 6x5 at best. We dont measure guns accuracy around here by cherry picked groups. If that was the case I have a 0.080" 6.5x47L, a 0.1" 223 Bolt gun, a .25" 308 gasser, etc etc..... Accuracy is measured on what the gun can repeatably do time after time. Not something it did one time. Take your guns, go out and shoot 5x5 or 6x5 and see what I mean.

Example, this is a 0.5moa 300blk AR - 7x5 @ 100yds


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/J2j8wCp.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Thank you, that is a very well explained answer on the MOA subject... I will try this very explanation / answer next outing with the Criterion barreled .308 AR and Krieger AR15

Some day, I would like to learn the details of the rifle.

 

[Tonsofguns]

What's complete bullshit? I made the assumption that being able to shoot a handful of groups at .3 out of say a set of 15 and I call that a .3 rifle. I made a wrong assumption and admitted it. So move on. That's great youre a better shooter than me, I am sure I am a better boxer than you.




QUOTE=bigjake83;n6649701]


Ok first off>>> tonsofguns<<<you need to just go back and lick your wounds and stop stating facts that are just complete bullshit...

PADOM is a "PRECISION" AR Shooter and so am I, and Elfster. We know what it is to shoot ARs Big and Small Block consistently at .5-.25 MOA.

Now Samnev IMO for as long as I have seen him, and read from his words is more of a Military/Battle Steel Ringer Shooter.. so different strokes for different folks... And it's quite clear from his above statement, about the that Les Bear and LaRue performing about the same, which has absolutely nothing to do with the guns it just proves that Samnev is a point .75 -.5 MOA shooter at his best and that is his capabilities. Which is very respectable. ... About 80% of the public, even after years of shooting can't even perform an 1 MOA 6x5 so just take that into context.

Now what I can tell you... And back to your original question about the rifle and not the shooters opinion.

These are the three most accurate rifles on the market right now, ..possibly four?....

(1) Custom Build by a AR Master Smith...(too many details to cover in one post)

(2) Les Baer DOES make the most accurate rifles on the market is terms of PURE ACCURACY NOT ACCURACY AND RELIABILITY THERE IS A VERY DELICATE LINE BETWEEN THOSE TWO.

(3) JP LRP07.. this is where you find the sub .75 MOA accuracy with unwavering reliability. From EVERY JP Complete Built JP LRP07 rifle, and you're also gonna get a strong Mexican Standoff, due to these rifles performing about the same, just having different characteristics and features which are the OBR and the KAC SR25 APR.

(4) Now the new 4th possible runner-up is the Falkor Petra Rifles with the Draco's barrels... They are quite literally a aerospace engineering company who has decided to make firearms, and they are redefining the way Firearms work as we speak and are producing barrels with lifetime warranties which is absolutely unheard of!! And with quarter to half MOA guarantees.

So IMO 100% Buy the JP LRP07 with the new 22" +2 Barrel and custom tune it with some hand loads to keep her at .5 MOA.


The reason I say for you to pick the middle choice is because it's quite clear that you're new to this and you're also not going to be proficient semi-automatic shooter, because if you were you wouldn't have posted this thread. people who are half - quarter MOA shooters are well-versed in the AR world, which is something that takes time and discipline way above anything you have to do with the bolt action gun.

I hope you find your way OP, and if you need anything more then that from me or Padom just ask... And Rambo .... I'm mean Samnev will be happy to help as well.[/QUOTE]

 

[Dave62677]

1st Gen Gap10 308

for you guys reference

 

[rck]

Leaving lurk mode since this is a classic gas gun thread and I always enjoy them...

The LMT seems to have scrolled off the discussion but one thing makes it stand out for me is that it is very reliably what it is. It just works in my experience having had one for some years now. Putting aside that you can likely club a bear to death with it and still shoot MOA, (it is a pig) what I love about it is the consistency. I don't have to continually fight it to keep it running and shooting well. That is half the battle right there speaking as someone who used to shoot NM M1As a lot.

No fuss no muss, just take it out of the case, feed it 168 gr. FGMM or equivalent hand loads and go to town. It will immediately tell me where I am at on the practice and discipline curve. If I am on game it it is honestly sub MOA (~0.75). If I am not on game or have been lazy and shooting other stuff it immediately lets me know with a doubling or more of group size. It is a stone cold bitch and needs to be driven, but will reward the dedicated shooter in all weathers and do so reliably. Zero complaints and no build your own hassles.

For the record I have a 16" CL with the factory two stage trigger.

I would also suggest to the OP that if they are new to the precision gas gun world it would be worth considering starting with a 5.56 gun to learn the game. Much more economical and forgiving, yet still requires serious focus to shoot well.

 

[BattleAxe]

My .308 GAP10 (gen 1) has 5K rounds down the pipe. It shot 3/4 MOA when I bought it, still shoots 3/4 Moa, and it will hold that out to 850 yards with Factory M118. Past 850 it starts to open up and I see about 1.2 Moa at 1 k. Only real failures were a broken extractor and a broken charging handle. Keep in mind that a 308 gasser takes a lot of recoil-related abuse and you will break things but this thing has been largely bomb-proof. I've only ever run factory M118 and FGMM so I can't say that it will eat anything because I simply don't know that. I'm definitely surprised at the barrel life so far and I'm wondering when it will be ready for a new one.

Just a little more on reliability...I've run this thing in several PRS events and club matches. Some in the driving rain with ankle deep mud/sand including a few play dates where I've gotten the barrel hot enough to cook bacon. Its one thing to say a rifle is reliable under the best of conditions but if you haven't actually beat it up you haven't really tested it. Also consider that your AR10 platform RARELY contains all parts that were built by the gun maker. GAP did not manufacture the parts on mine that failed.

Some guys above mentioned a DPMS...they're actually a solid shooting rifle. My shooting partner has a LR.308 and its quite accurate/reliable so you don't really need to sell a kidney. A DPMS SASS was my 1st AR10 platform but with an 18" barrel it didn't have the speed to perform as well at distance.

Sent from my HTC6535LVW using Tapatalk

 

[houndog]

If you are on a budget Larue is running a special that you should definitely check out. Can buy what is basically a complete gun minus the lower receiver and then separately buy the receiver at a very competitive price. You do have to put the gun together yourself - or pay Larue an extra $200 to build it for you. If you plan on shooting at over 600 yards you can even order it in 6.5 cm. This is honestly a very good deal.

If you are on a budget, I know some people have been getting good results with DPMS (I would look at something with a heavy stainless barrel). Similarly, RRA might be worth looking at. I have a RRA upper in .223. It's got a heavy stainless barrel and is every bit as accurate as my Larue. I would assume their .308 version would also be pretty good.

 

[asus611]

I have a factory built Falkor Alpha DMR in 308. This has a Proof carbon fiber barrel. Only things I did that were not stock were swapped out the trigger for a Geisele National Match, and I also swapped to a carbine length adjustable stock with a Slash heavy buffer. I have about 2,500 rounds through it. It has no problems printing 3/4 minute groups, and if I do my part I can get the groups smaller.

I am extremely pleased with my purchase. It has some great features which I have really come to love. Mainly, on the Falkor lowers, they have ambi controls. I mean, literally, ambidextrous. Even the bolt release. Having the ability to release the bolt with my right hand while still on the gun is an awesome feature.

Also, I havenot had any problems with this gun as far as feeding, ejecting, etc. It has run like a sewing machine since the day I got it. It eats up factory 308 FGMM happily. I previously had a large frame AR from another company, and it ran spotty at best. Accuracy was dead on, but it loved to short stroke and have all kinds of weird functioning problems. Even after sending it back twice, it still wasn't running the way I wanted to. With my Falkor, there have been zero problems. For me, the reliability and faith in my equipment is worth just as much as accuracy. In my case, I am happy to have an accurate AND reliable gasser.