Which 6mm

[dylanmj]

Carry over from Scout:


01/09/2017

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Looking at options for a 6mm, seeing what everyone is shooting and why? 6x47, 6mm creedmoor, 6xc, 243.. ?

Jimmy31593XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017

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Lots of info on the 6 dasher. Good barrel life. Great brass life.

6x47 has amazing brass life

6 creedmoor has a good following. With the new lapua brass things could get interesting with this caliber.

DevilDocAZXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017 Last edited 01/09/2017 by DevilDocAZ

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Subscribed

I was just thinking this very same thing. I have a R700 action and a 7.5 twist 6mm barrel sitting around.

6Dasher sounded good until I read it might need to have a bushing for the firing pin, special mag conversions and some magical reamer used depending on if I plan to use Norma 6dasher brass or fireform it out of Lapua. My head got so foggy I decided to circle back to this topic when I was more relaxed. Not bashing it, just a lot of info for me all at once.

Seeing as you asked I'll sit back and let the more knowledgeable guys offer up advice.

CplSnafuX28 MONTHS
Premium Member
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017
(1 vote)

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They're all very nice. If you subscribe to the theory of modern case design and inherent accuracy that rules out the .243. Just like the .260 though, it just flat works. When lapua comes out with the creedmoor brass, any potential gap will narrow further. I lean towards lapua brass generally, but so far my XC has been very nice.

This topic has been beat to death, and there will never be a definitive answer.

avboiler11XFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017

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6 Dasher
Lapua Brass
.104(ish) reamer
Bushed firing pin costs $100 and is helpful for achieving maximum performance from the case, but not necessary
Runs fine from Pmag 7.62AC in my 700SA
20xcleanXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017

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I just went through this exercise. Fired the first 50 Dasher rounds yesterday. Had this build not been for my daughter, it would have been a 243win.

I get the whole 35° shoulder, long neck, etc. That said, your can load 243 down to Dasher velocity (my hunting load is 33gr Varget with a 95NBT) or pack it full of H1000, RL26 or N165 and push a 105 over 3300. Lapua brass. Large rifle primer. Not to mention, current NRA world champion's chambering.

Love my 6BRs. Probably my favorite rifles for fun. Dasher is coming along but a 243Win is one bad mofo in stock form or as an SLR.
xdeanoXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/09/2017
(1 vote)

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I've been running the 6slr for a few years now as my go coyote round. Im impressed with velocity, how easy it is to load for and how scary accurate it is.

If I do a 6mm, it would either be the 6slr again, or the 6 comp match. Both are very similar and both give good velocity to barrel life.
Xdeano

LawnMMXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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Like my 6x47 Lapua, most accurate gun I own. Thought about other chamberings for simpler brass prep, no necking down, etc.

Might do 6 Creedmoor next time with Lapua brass coming out. Gonna see how much life I get out of the 6x47 barrel first and see if it lasts long enough to satisfy my desire for the caliber and its performance.

JADEprecisionXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017
(1 vote)

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6 Creed with Lapua brass and Hornady making factory ammo too...What's not to like?!

FUNCTIONALXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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6 creedmoor.

You really aren't getting any magical barrel life out of any other 6 offering, all depends on how hot you load it and and what powder you use. Even then its not going to get you anything significant.

6creed hornady brass is nice, im up to 5 reloadings and my primer pockets are still fine and its cheap to replace. Lapua has brass in the pipeline for it, a company called alpha is coming out with brass for it in the very near future which is supposed to be very good, and its the only offering right now that has affordable match ammunition (hornady). There is no fire forming for cases like other offerings and you don't need to bush your bolt for small primers.

You already have enough offered for the 6creed right now to make it a favorable option over the rest but give it another year or 2 and Id be willing to bet it gets close to the popularity as 6.5creedmoor. Probably won't be quite as popular due to barrel life but if you are set on a 6mm offering its hard to beat a 6creed at this point.


DropnRollXSergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I am torn between 6xc, 6x47 Lapua and 6 Creedmoor. Each had its own pros and cons. I am halfway through the life of my 6.5 Creedmoor and will rebarrel later this year.
born2killXPrivate
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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DropnRoll wrote: I am torn between 6xc, 6x47 Lapua and 6 Creedmoor. Each had its own pros and cons. I am halfway through the life of my 6.5 Creedmoor and will rebarrel later this year.​

Those are the 3 I am torn up on as well. I will not be competing. Just target and hunting. I currently shoot a custom 260. Rem that is the most accurate rifle I have ever seen. I'd like to add another rifle to the collection for the same purpose. Some what cheapish to shoot (spent 2 seasons 2 barrels with the 300. Win mag learning long range), accurate and I can rotate while the other is cooling and have a buddy shoot with me instead of sharing s rifle

born2killXPrivate
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I like the sounds of the 6x47 and 6mm creed but the 6xc has a strong fan base and there has to be a good reason why. Let me see if I have this right.

6xc is a 22-250 case necked up to .243/6mm and fire formed to a 30 degree shoulder? Allowing it to push a 105 bullet between 2950-3050 on the high side?

6x47 is a straight neck down 6.5x47. So long neck, probably allowing the 105 to run around 3050-3150?

And the 6mm creed is a necked down 6.5 creed with decent brass availability and able to run the 105's at 3050-3150 as well?

FUNCTIONALXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I have two 6 creed builds at 24" barrels and both push 105 hybrids at 3150fps and I definitely can bump that higher before i get any pressure signs. Youll see a lot of people stop before 3200 due to match fps limits but it is capable of higher.

bulletpusher1XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017 Last edited 01/10/2017 by bulletpusher1

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I am thinking about doing a 6mm and going back and fourth on all this shit,my question is could one do a plain Jane 243 and load it down to 3050-3100 and still get the barrel life of the 6xc or creed?

6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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Just thinking to myself as I read through this thread and here's what I came up with... 6mm Creed AI using Lapua brass. 105's at 3250 fps in a 26"- rough estimate.

domdocXPrivate
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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6mm Remington? Yes, if you want to shoot the heavy bullets at max velocity, it's there. And if you want light bullets going slow, then barrel life will be longer. Same loaded round OAL as .243, and for the really long-range loads, go ahead and put your favorite bullet close to the lands, and if it's not mag-length, just single load. You'll single-load anyway for long range.

LawnMMXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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bulletpusher1 wrote:

I am thinking about doing a 6mm and going back and fourth on all this shit,my question is could one do a plain Jane 243 and load it down to 3050-3100 and still get the barrel life of the 6xc or creed?​

It would help but I doubt it. Nothing wrong with 243 as long as you're realistic about what it does and is capable of.

If you want longer life there are other options out there...6CM, 6XC, 6x47, 6 Dasher

308220XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I like simplicity when it comes to cartridge choices. So that leaves the 243 and 6mm CM now that Hornady has factory ammo for it. Barrel life will be about the same. Not enough to say one is a barrel burner and one is a barrel saver. I dont like fireforming or having to do anything exotic to brass to make it work for a wildcat. That takes the fun out of shooting and makes it feel more like a job.

243 will serve you well.

HKpirateXSergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017 Last edited 01/10/2017 by HKpirate

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Chad at LRI (think tanner actually) spun me up a 6 comp match and I've loved it so far. Don't loose a ton of brass with the mausingfiled. There is some prep work but ive loved it after a season.


20xcleanXGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017 Last edited 01/10/2017 by 20xclean

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I'm with you on that. One of the reasons I waited so long on a Dasher.

6XC has off the shelf brass. Tubb sold a metric shit ton of it. There may be other options for brass too.


www.davidtubb.com/xc-brass-norma

---------------------------------------------
--- 308220 wrote:


I like simplicity when it comes to cartridge choices. So that leaves the 243 and 6mm CM now that Hornady has factory ammo for it. Barrel life will be about the same. Not enough to say one is a barrel burner and one is a barrel saver. I dont like fireforming or having to do anything exotic to brass to make it work for a wildcat. That takes the fun out of shooting and makes it feel more like a job.



243 will serve you well.



---------------------------------------------





JAKelly1XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I first chose a 6x47 Lapua for the sake of simplicity. Very good choice it's extremely accurate and 3050-3150 is easily achieved with N160, H4350, IMR4451, etc.

I then started reading about and talking to users of the 6 Comp Match (243 w/31° shoulder) and David Tubb released the new 115 Dtac (.620 G1 BC). I am making the switch to the Comp Match. If these accurate barrel life numbers are correct, 3000-5000+ using H1000, the change is worth it. Seems like it works like the 6.5 SAUM, lower pressure H1000 loads pushing heavy for caliber bullets in cruise control, if that's what's going on, I have to try it.

Jimmy31593XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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If anyone has a 6 creedmoor reamer they would be willing to sell/lend please pm me.

SheldonNXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I chose 6 Dasher because all the cool kids are doing it.

Slightly less recoil, better barrel life, uses less powder, benchrest level accuracy and easy to tune. 1000 yard benchrest competition is dominated by the Dasher. Tradeoffs are fireforming and that I give up a click or two of wind to the faster 6mm's in tough conditions.

glock24XFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017 Last edited 01/10/2017 by glock24

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avboiler11 wrote: 6 Dasher

Runs fine from Pmag 7.62AC in my 700SA​

There is R700 bottom metal that takes 7.62 P-Mags?

Please elaborate

Thank you





EDIT: Nevermind. He's talking about the AICS pattern P-Mag.

knockmdownXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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6x47Steve wrote:
Just thinking to myself as I read through this thread and here's what I came up with... 6mm Creed AI using Lapua brass. 105's at 3250 fps in a 26"- rough estimate.​

OK, but along that same line of reasoning...

Why not just do a .243AI, and enjoy even more case capacity, use Lapua brass, & run the same slow burn powder for long case & barrel life?

Seems like the .243AI hardly gets any love with the 'precision' crowd & I'm not sure why? Only thing I can think of is maybe only being able to fit 9rds in a 10rd mag, due to those blown out shoulders?

My necked down .22-243AI feeds fine from AICS mags, so I can't see there being a feeding issue?

The latest rage 6 Dasher has a 40 ° shoulder, same as the .243AI...

pangelosXSergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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The reason I don't run a 243AI is cause you can't run AW mags. Deal breaker for me.
I have a 6x47 and just spun up a 6SLR for myself. I don't have a lot of time with the SLR the thought behind it though was cheap brass that I could leave at a match. The SLR is preforming great so far with 115 DTACs so I'm excited to try it at a match. That being said I have zero complaints about my 6x47

308220XGunny Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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knockmdown wrote:

6x47Steve wrote:

Just thinking to myself as I read through this thread and here's what I came up with... 6mm Creed AI using Lapua brass. 105's at 3250 fps in a 26"- rough estimate.​

OK, but along that same line of reasoning...

Why not just do a .243AI, and enjoy even more case capacity, use Lapua brass, & run the same slow burn powder for long case & barrel life?

Seems like the .243AI hardly gets any love with the 'precision' crowd & I'm not sure why? Only thing I can think of is maybe only being able to fit 9rds in a 10rd mag, due to those blown out shoulders?

My necked down .22-243AI feeds fine from AICS mags, so I can't see there being a feeding issue?

The latest rage 6 Dasher has a 40 ° shoulder, same as the .243AI...​

Ive always heard the 243ai is too dramatic in its velocity consistency to be a serious long range option.

nfoleyXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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I have a 6 dasher and a 6x47. Not sure I prefer one over the other. Like the little extra speed, no fire forming, and the no fuss mag feeding with the x47. The dasher is supposed to get better barrel life, but I have a friend that lost accuracy in fewer rounds than I have on my current 6x47 barrel. It's possible his was a fluke. Both have excellent brass life (lapua in both).
In my hands they shoot similarly in terms of accuracy and recoil. A better shooter will likely notice a difference, but both are great for me.

6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant
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Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017
(1 vote)

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knockmdown wrote:

6x47Steve wrote:
Just thinking to myself as I read through this thread and here's what I came up with... 6mm Creed AI using Lapua brass. 105's at 3250 fps in a 26"- rough estimate.​

OK, but along that same line of reasoning...

Why not just do a .243AI, and enjoy even more case capacity, use Lapua brass, & run the same slow burn powder for long case & barrel life?

Seems like the .243AI hardly gets any love with the 'precision' crowd & I'm not sure why? Only thing I can think of is maybe only being able to fit 9rds in a 10rd mag, due to those blown out shoulders?

My necked down .22-243AI feeds fine from AICS mags, so I can't see there being a feeding issue?

The latest rage 6 Dasher has a 40 ° shoulder, same as the .243AI...​

Just to be difficult, lol, JK.

Seriously though, I think the Lapua small rifle primer 6.5 Creed brass will last longer than the large rifle primer Lapua 243 brass will because of the extra brass in the heel and then there's the .059 flash hole.

Next would be the shorter length of the case giving a bit more latitude for seating 115 DTACS or the new 110 SMK's in AI mags. I'm leaning towards going to those bullets right now when I run out of the Berger 105 hybrids.

The NAZPR just had a new monthly match start up near Wikieup AZ with most of the targets farther out with very few less than 400Y. Might have to rethink the 6 Dasher which I was going to do when this barrel is done.

I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.

 

[dylanmj]

Re: Which 6mm?
01/10/2017

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6x47Steve wrote:
I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.​

Steve, do you prefer .236 or .237 barrels for your 6x47L?

lashlaroeX53 MONTHS

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Steve, how well does the 6x47L feed in the AI mags? And have you tried them in AW mags?

born2killXPrivate

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Looking at doing a budget build and trying a 6mm out for size. Top two I'm considering is a 6mm creed and a 6x47 lapua. Build will be on a rem 700 sa, benchmark or bartlein barrel, jewel trigger, grayboe stock.

calshipbuilderX40 MONTHS

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I'm moving from 243 to 6 creed. Factory match ammo is the #1 reason.

majohnson2XGunny Sergeant

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Left twist 6XC. While it easy to 3300fps keep it at 3000fps and you will get better barrel life. The 105 Hybrid does well in the wind, not having a lot of surface area to push against. It easy to find a load for some say only the 308 is easier to find a load for. Norma brass holds up well.

You won't have the primer issues some have had with the small primers used in Lapuas cases on the 6 x 47. Hornady cases have a reputation for primer pockets loosing, more so under higher pressures.

knockmdownXFirst Sergeant

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6x47Steve wrote:
Just to be difficult, lol, JK.

Seriously though, I think the Lapua small rifle primer 6.5 Creed brass will last longer than the large rifle primer Lapua 243 brass will because of the extra brass in the heel and then there's the .059 flash hole.

Next would be the shorter length of the case giving a bit more latitude for seating 115 DTACS or the new 110 SMK's in AI mags. I'm leaning towards going to those bullets right now when I run out of the Berger 105 hybrids.

The NAZPR just had a new monthly match start up near Wikieup AZ with most of the targets farther out with very few less than 400Y. Might have to rethink the 6 Dasher which I was going to do when this barrel is done.

I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.​

Gotcha, Steve.

I figured with all that extra boiler room, the .243AI could be run so mild on pressure @ max match speed that brass life wouldn't be an issue?

Can see how not runnin' in AW mags would be a detriment to some, that makes sense...

Just making conversation. PVA Josh just spun me up a 6x47L, and I'm diggin' it. In 6mm, I was used to shooting my old GAP .243(Match) w/original DTACs @ 3070, and this 6x47L pushing the 105Hybrids is a near twin, performance wise. And doing it with less powder, from less barrel length. Sure makes the 6x47L easy to like...

6x47KevinXSergeant

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6x47Steve wrote:
I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.​

Ah Steve, I thought I had you going the way of the Dasher!! Just received Dasher barrels #4 and #5 from Jonathon.

6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant

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cottonant wrote:

6x47Steve wrote:
I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.​

Steve, do you prefer .236 or .237 barrels for your 6x47L?​

I haven't tried a .236. Just for reference I'm on the 7th barrel but two were on benchrest actions I sold almost a decade ago, same reamer. No complaints except for one crappy gunsmiths job.

6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant

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lashlaroe wrote:
Steve, how well does the 6x47L feed in the AI mags? And have you tried them in AW mags?​

In my rifles using AI mags I found it fed best with the lips bent out a little. Then with the Mausingfield it feeds best with the front of the lips filed back a 10th of an inch.

Never tried the AW mags.

6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant

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6x47Kevin wrote:

6x47Steve wrote:
I'll probably stick with 6x47L, been a good cartridge and past 30 cycles on the brass.​

Ah Steve, I thought I had you going the way of the Dasher!! Just received Dasher barrels #4 and #5 from Jonathon.​

I know, you do have me convinced, that Dasher is "accurate"! I think the Dasher is perfect for the SRM and the other matches where most shots are inside 600Y and a few outside that. I still might do one and have the mag conversions sitting in a drawer. I really need to figure out a practice load/cartridge that gets decent barrel life, like even a 6.5 Dasher??!!

I'm pretty sure I can get those 110's/.617BC moving along at 3050 fps without much effort in the 6x47L and also pretty sure I'll need the .2-.3 mil less wind drift compared to the Dasher at our longer distances. Of course if I had your wind intuition that would help alot too [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/media.scout.com\/media\/forums\/emoticons\/wink.gif"}[/IMG2][IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/media.scout.com\/media\/forums\/emoticons\/biggrin.gif"}[/IMG2]

We all got beat by a girl last Sunday. Regina really has this tactical shooting stuff down.






LawnMMXFirst Sergeant

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Steve, that should be a snap, I've had the DTACs at 115gr up over 3000 easy. I settled on 2995 because the SD was like 3fps. A 110 at 3k should be no issue for the 6x47




6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant

LawnMM wrote:
Steve, that should be a snap, I've had the DTACs at 115gr up over 3000 easy. I settled on 2995 because the SD was like 3fps. A 110 at 3k should be no issue for the 6x47​

Yep, I think so.

I used to use the old DTACS until they dried up right about the time the hybrids came out which were readily available then. My load was at 3000 fps too when the barrel settled.




6x47SteveXFirst Sergeant

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A friend is getting his 6mm Vortex next week. It's a 6x47L improved with the shoulder moved out. I'll be watching to see what FPS he gets.



LongRiflesIncXFirst Sergeant

6 Comp Match. Why?



Pros:

• Mileage. With a single base magnum propellant you can expect 3000 round service life. Some report back with over 3500
• Accuracy. As good as any other known 6mm cartridge capable of sterling performance. -To include when fire forming brass
• Exceptional feeding/function. Preserves the 243 Winchester body taper.
• Near zero case growth. 31* shoulder mitigates brass flowing to the neck.
• Forgiving to load. Thus far, not fussy at all.
• Same/more velocity potential over most others

Cons:

• You do have to fire form.
• Losing cases at "lost brass" events just sucks.
• Custom sizer die* (*not a big deal anymore as I make them)
• Increased powder consumption over a smaller case volume due to use of single based magnum propellants
• Use H4350 and your dead in under 1100 rounds. We've proven that too.

What I've learned:



1200-1400 rounds on most "sixes" running 4350 powder. That seems to be the mileage where barrels die. With Retumbo, H1000 you can double that on a Comp Match. That is solid, proven data over a 3 year period.

52 grains of Retumbo puts you in the low 3100 fps range with a 105 Hybrid on a 24" 6 groove, .236" bore barrel. That's loaded to an OAL of 2.880". Proven, inked, and valid. If you try this you'll likely tell me I'm full of shit because you can't get that much powder in the case. In reality, you can get 52.2 grains of the stuff. It will heap over the case mouth. Vibrating cases will settle it out to roughly one caliber below the case mouth. You'll likely have to work on the seating stem of your die in order to avoid the dreaded "love ring" on the ogive of the bullet.

-That much propellant does fit. I ran it for 2 years.

47.7 grains of RL26 puts you in the 3180 fps range on my rifle. It's been my ongoing test mule to get a bead on the mileage. So far I'm at around 900 rounds with no issues. Killer performance. Same barrel length/twist/contour/bullets Spike the load and you'll find the 3600+ envelope. Paper match guys get a stain in their undies when doing so it works so well. . .

I like Norma 243 cases better than Lapua. Primer pockets seem to last longer. This has been parroted by some of my other clients using it.

6 to 6.1 Mil elevation from a 100 yard baseline at roughly 4000' over sea level. That gets you to 1000 yards. Not too chitty.

Fire forming can be done by going to a long seating depth or doing a false shoulder. I like the latter as that way I know I have a solid "pinch" on the case when in battery. No web growth that way.

Cases have been reported to last for over 15 reloads by clients. Be nice to it, manage sound practices, and I'd bet you could go to 20.

It feeds from staggered stack, centerfeed magazines very well from both pushfeed and controlled round feed magazines. I like the Alpha 2's the best for my Mausingfield gun.



I have an article on the store that walks a guy through the process for building ammo.



This cartridge was the brain child of Joe Hendricks. Joe is an avid NRA Highpower guy. He wanted to avoid having to swap barrels during the middle of the season. The 6mm Comp Match was his offering to the shooting alter. I normally steer away from wildcats like this, but it got my attention by hitting several notes that are important to me. As a result, I went after it and we are where we are today as a result of the effort.



If you don't mind a little work, it's worthy of consideration.



Good luck.

LongRiflesIncXFirst Sergeant

---

*Note. Dies from us have been an issue in terms of delivery. That problem has been solved. A batch literally left for Atmosphere Nitriding today. Earlier this week D2 hit our rack for the next batch. I invested close to $12,000 in tooling and work holding to be able to make this in our new Kitamura Vertical Machining Center. This batch going to Gas Nitride are the first articles from that effort. I'm very pleased to report that we've been able to hold some rather impressive positional tolerances with this setup. True positions of .001" or less. If you understand what that means, you know it's not the easiest thing to do. So far so good and with the use of D2 now we'll be heat treating to 65 Rockwell with a double 900 temper in a vacuum furnace. They'll be about as bullet proof as a reloading die could ever hope to be.

The pieces are in place and were moving forward.​

morganlamprechtXFirst Sergeant

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​

my krieger with a 6comp stuck in it from LRI is currently at 1800 rnds and still the same velocity/powder charge w/ 105s as it was 1500 rounds ago (when i settled on running 105s)...all loads with h1000...i used an old barrel to fireform my brass

xdeanoXFirst Sergeant

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These are the same atrobutes that I looked at when I built my 6slr. The 6slr is just slightly less case capacity then the 6 comp match, so a little less velocity. If I were to do another barrel today, I'd look very hard at both these cartridges. The only nice thing about the 6slr is the lack of fireforming, but that's really a moot point. I wouldn't mess with a br, dasher, 47, 243, none of them will do what these two cartridges will do. Brass life and barrel life are outstanding. Velocity is great and accuracy is scary.


scudzukiXFirst Sergeant

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LongRiflesInc wrote:

*Note. Dies from us have been an issue in terms of delivery. That problem has been solved. A batch literally left for Atmosphere Nitriding today. Earlier this week D2 hit our rack for the next batch. I invested close to $12,000 in tooling and work holding to be able to make this in our new Kitamura Vertical Machining Center. This batch going to Gas Nitride are the first articles from that effort. I'm very pleased to report that we've been able to hold some rather impressive positional tolerances with this setup. True positions of .001" or less. If you understand what that means, you know it's not the easiest thing to do. So far so good and with the use of D2 now we'll be heat treating to 65 Rockwell with a double 900 temper in a vacuum furnace. They'll be about as bullet proof as a reloading die could ever hope to be.

The pieces are in place and were moving forward.​

D2 is some gnarly tool steel; those dies should last forever.

Kitamura builds burly precise machining centers. One shop I worked at took delivery of an HMC (60 HP spindle, dual pallets with tombstones) shortly before I left. It was still being setup when I started the new job... that's the only regret I had leaving, not getting to play with that toy.

Coyotekiller64XPrivate

6br norma varget powder ,105 vld,s 2800fps one in groups at 700yds. no turn neck . simplicity at its finest.



KungFuPanderXPrivate

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6 creed is about as good as your gonna get with a 6mm. .243 may move a little faster but the barrel will suffer tremendously.



6x47KevinXSergeant

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My 6mm path over the last few years.

6SLR, very accurate. 26" barrel, H4831, Dtacs @ 2950ish. Barrel died just over 1000rds. Very happy with the accuracy, not so much with barrel life.

6 Comp Match. Drawn to the barrel life.... Joe Hendricks success with it......26" barrel, don't remember the H1000 charge, Dtacs just under 3000. Could not get it to shoot as well as the 6SLR. Pulled the barrel at 2200rds. Thinking maybe a dud barrel?

Another 6 Comp Match. Similar load as the first. Once again could not match the accuracy of the 6SLR. Pulled the barrel, don't remember the round count.

6x47, same accuracy as 6SLR. Hybrids at 3050ish. Easy to tune. My scores at local matches went up. Fed through AW and AI mags. Had to mess with the feed lips on the AW to feed like butter, no big deal. Chambered 3 more 6x47's. Ran them all at 3050ish/Hybrids. Razor accuracy barrel life for low teens, velocity dropped on all of them about there..... Screwed around chasing loads/adding more powder for a few hundred more rounds..... Excellent brass, well over 20 firings.

6BR, blows away all the above for accuracy, ease of tuning. Silly easy!!

Dasher, same accuracy as the 6BR. Hybrids/H4895 at 2950. Set personal best scores with it at local steel matches, shot inside any of the 6x47's. Pulled the barrel at 2150 rds as soon as it showed a glimpse of slowing down. Didn't mess with chasing the load... shot the same load for the life of the barrel. Chambered another Dasher, just pulled it 2400rds. Chambered a 3rd, have 700rds on it. Using Varget on this one, maybe get a little longer barrel life with the slightly slower Varget? Just Had my gunsmith spin up two more Dasher barrels. Started working up a load on the 4th at 100yds in the last couple days, showing the same accuracy as the other barrels. 31.5/H4895 and 32.7/Varget Hybrids shoot very well at 100yds, will put those loads on paper at 1050yds soon and pick one.

I don't know much, just another schmuck on a internet board who digs everything long range shooting..... What I do know with absolute certainty, I'll gladly give up velocity for accuracy and how consistent the barrel/load is over it's life. The 6BR/Dasher opened my eyes to that. YMMV



LongRiflesIncXFirst Sergeant

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KungFuPander wrote:
6 creed is about as good as your gonna get with a 6mm. .243 may move a little faster but the barrel will suffer tremendously.​

Not true. 6mm Comp Match. Read the specs above.



Why1504XSergeant

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now that Lapua is going to offer 6.5 Creedmoor brass I can't understand why anyone would chose one of the other 6.5MM offerings.
Now Hornaday has 6MM Creedmoor ammo coming out. I expect the 6MM Creedmoor brass from Lapua can't be too fare behind.

IMO, if you are mag length limited the Creedmoor is the way to go.



calshipbuilderX40 MONTHS

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LRI, great write-up. Do you think moving to retumbo in a standard 243 will show similar barrel life gains?




LongRiflesIncXFirst Sergeant

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I know a guy locally here who had good mileage on a 243 AI. Case volume becomes fairly important when you downshift that far on burn rates. Barrel length too. -Until you double stuff a case like I had to do with Retumbo. The RL 26 thus far is like "methamphetamine sprinkled unicorn dust." That shit is stoopid on velocity.



xdeanoXFirst Sergeant

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I concur. Rl26 in the 6slr was insane. I pushed the 105s up to 3300fps.

I typically use h1000, but I tried Retumbo and for the same weight of powder I received just a bit more velocities.

I think a guy could use either the h1000, Retumbo or rl26 in a standard 243. I say that because the cases are very similar to the 6slr and 6comp.
Xdeano

LongRiflesInc wrote:

I know a guy locally here who had good mileage on a 243 AI. Case volume becomes fairly important when you downshift that far on burn rates. Barrel length too. -Until you double stuff a case like I had to do with Retumbo. The RL 26 thus far is like "methamphetamine sprinkled unicorn dust." That shit is stoopid on velocity.​

spanielzXSergeant

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308220 wrote:

knockmdown wrote:

OK, but along that same line of reasoning...

Why not just do a .243AI, and enjoy even more case capacity, use Lapua brass, & run the same slow burn powder for long case & barrel life?

Seems like the .243AI hardly gets any love with the 'precision' crowd & I'm not sure why? Only thing I can think of is maybe only being able to fit 9rds in a 10rd mag, due to those blown out shoulders?

My necked down .22-243AI feeds fine from AICS mags, so I can't see there being a feeding issue?

The latest rage 6 Dasher has a 40 ° shoulder, same as the .243AI...​

Ive always heard the 243ai is too dramatic in its velocity consistency to be a serious long range option.​

Then perhaps you should build and shoot one rather than relying on internet rumors. I've run mine to 1000 yards and it is the most accurate rifle I own. The ES is as tight as any other caliber I reload for. Why offer an opinion if you don't have any actual experience?



knockmdownXFirst Sergeant

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Have to agree with the above . I've seen & shot several friends'.243AIs, and they are no joke. I just went 'full retard', and necked .243AI down to .224. Certainly NOT a PRS cartridge, but it will raise an eyebrow when ya see what that .22-243AI can do, downrange. But, back on topic!

It would appear that, for the everyday LR shooter, the .243AI can do everything that the 6Comp Match does. Caveat being, and as explained by LRI, the 6 Comp Match is more specifically suited to PRS type shooting, where AW mags & 10rd magazines are a priority for many competitors...



6x47KEvin, enjoyed you sharing the progression of your experience...thank you! That Dasher does look like a honey, just still waiting for the dust to settle on that new Norma/Dasher brass & reamer, etc. May I assume that you are runnin' the 'original' Dasher w/ formed Lapua brass?

What is your method of forming? Neck up/down false shoulder, hard jam, hydroform?



Good info in this thread, thanks!




6x47KevinXSergeant

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knockmdown,

Thanks. Yes, using FF Lapua BR brass. FF 400 with the false shoulder method and 200 jam .030 and shoot. Both formed great. FF false shoulder with a full BR load, no problems. Shot the false shoulder FF in a couple local "square" range steel match, very accurate.... Shot the jam and shoot practicing positional stuff, which I need to practice more! Jam and shoot reduced a BR load by 10% or so, 28 Varget/105 worked well. Shot some close to full BR loads, got a little pressure signs.



craigosXFirst Sergeant

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Going with a Dasher from PVA because i like to futz with stuff when I am not shooting. If I dont like it, 6x47 is next on my list. However am pretty sure am going to love the Dasher --- i dont mind forming the Lapua BR brass

 

[Sheldon N]

Great thread, thanks for bringing over.

 

[sierracharlie338]

Yeah I am a bit intrigued now. I currently am about to start collecting parts for a 260 build but this has me pausing. Thanks for posting it