My son, 18yo 6'-2" 225, very athletic, very smart, is thinking about joining. He's not ready for college yet, says he doesn't want some commie professor giving him bad grades because he's a conservative. He intends to eventually get an engineering degree, says he wants to design and build firearms but first he wants to learn how they work and how to keep them working. He's interested in the armory and smithing. What do you guys think? If you could advise a young man what would you suggest?
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Which branch of the military would you join? And Why?
- Thread starter Caveman0101
- Start date
If I could go back and join this would be my choice.
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www.thebalancecareers.com
How to Become a Small Arms Repairer/Technician (MOS 2111)
MOS 2111 refers to the Small Arms Repairer/Technician job, which requires physical fitness and weapons aptitude. Here are the enlistment requirements.
Reserves, get some more discipline while doing initial training, then get back into school.
space force man , space force lol you know they are going to get to use some really cool et tech someday .
Chances are he’s not going to get the job he wants unless he contracts as SOF, and that requires prequalification most of the time. It’s just the nature of the beast these days. Sell him on the experience, and the Post 9/11 GI Bill (which is fantastic). I’d push him in any direction except the Army, too much drama.
Source: I did a recruiting tour and some time doing contracts at MEPS not all too long ago.
Source: I did a recruiting tour and some time doing contracts at MEPS not all too long ago.
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Not exactly US military, but US Marshals Service...
The reason? Already 2 major reasons for that in this past month. Props, man... MAJOR props to fucking cleaning up scum from the fabric of this society.
The reason? Already 2 major reasons for that in this past month. Props, man... MAJOR props to fucking cleaning up scum from the fabric of this society.
Man, the military changed so much in my 21 years that I wouldn't have a clue what to advise these days. Top level Marine leadership is trying so hard to be like the Army these days that it's pointless to differentiate anymore. I hated it, I fought it, and eventually I said "fuck it" and retired. To be honest though, I was ready to hang it up in 2010 when I started having to be delicate with the fucking sexual preferences of my Marines. There went my beloved spartan culture.
My advice is to find something as close to the career path as he wants and get it in writing before that hand goes up at MEPS.
In the Marines there is no guarantee (at least when I was a dreaded recruiter) of an armory job...you could very well find yourself fixing an armored vehicle...at least no more tank mechanic jobs now that the Corps gave those up.
In the Navy, Coast Guard, and Air Force I can't imagine the small arms getting much use. I'm sure that there are exceptions, but it's not the norm.
My advice is to find something as close to the career path as he wants and get it in writing before that hand goes up at MEPS.
In the Marines there is no guarantee (at least when I was a dreaded recruiter) of an armory job...you could very well find yourself fixing an armored vehicle...at least no more tank mechanic jobs now that the Corps gave those up.
In the Navy, Coast Guard, and Air Force I can't imagine the small arms getting much use. I'm sure that there are exceptions, but it's not the norm.
Great advice from Diggler. Basically, if it isn't in the contract is almost certainly isn't happening (until you claw and scratch and bite for it later). Don't let the recruiters fill him full of shit that isn't going to happen.
Always thought the AF would be cool to join, flying a plane and all...Only official flying I did was a 30 min trip on a chopper from a missile site back to base.
I was in the AF for four years '61-65 and it was so unprofessional...One had to be a good ole' boy (mostly sergeants sittin' on their asses waiting to get their "twenty" in to retire. They chose their friends who went huntin' and fishin' with them off duty. I was a city boy, so didn't fit in. Even today, not really sure if knowledge is any part of criteria for advancement...From basic the biggest dumbass who had to re-do his basic got assigned to duty in Spain whereas everyone else got sent to Cali or Alaska. With all the posters (SR-71) I put up in my son's bedroom...never thought he would join the Army (20 years in June of 2021). He was assigned to an EOD unit, blowing up and disarming munitions. Even went to parachute jump school and made 20+ jumps. Served in Kuwait, Iraq and several times in A'Stan.
He says best part was jumping out of a plane (only broke his ankle once) and blowing up shit. Worst part was...in early 90's, I told him if he learned to type 20 WPM on putor laptop I would rent him some movies, buy some snacks and soda for him. He learned real quick and asked for the same deal if he did 30 WPM. I said, "NO". Once you learn how to type, you are hooked! Sure enuff, when his sergeant found out he could type, he worked in the office part time for most of his enlistments. He really hated that, BUT he got to know all the officers and they liked him, so he advanced fairly quickly.
He is not planning to re-up after 20. He doesn't like the Army anymore.
My recommendation is, if your offspring is a good swimmer, might think of the Coast Guard.
When my uncle was in the Army, he got busted five times, but still retired as a top sergeant.
I was in the AF for four years '61-65 and it was so unprofessional...One had to be a good ole' boy (mostly sergeants sittin' on their asses waiting to get their "twenty" in to retire. They chose their friends who went huntin' and fishin' with them off duty. I was a city boy, so didn't fit in. Even today, not really sure if knowledge is any part of criteria for advancement...From basic the biggest dumbass who had to re-do his basic got assigned to duty in Spain whereas everyone else got sent to Cali or Alaska. With all the posters (SR-71) I put up in my son's bedroom...never thought he would join the Army (20 years in June of 2021). He was assigned to an EOD unit, blowing up and disarming munitions. Even went to parachute jump school and made 20+ jumps. Served in Kuwait, Iraq and several times in A'Stan.
He says best part was jumping out of a plane (only broke his ankle once) and blowing up shit. Worst part was...in early 90's, I told him if he learned to type 20 WPM on putor laptop I would rent him some movies, buy some snacks and soda for him. He learned real quick and asked for the same deal if he did 30 WPM. I said, "NO". Once you learn how to type, you are hooked! Sure enuff, when his sergeant found out he could type, he worked in the office part time for most of his enlistments. He really hated that, BUT he got to know all the officers and they liked him, so he advanced fairly quickly.
He is not planning to re-up after 20. He doesn't like the Army anymore.
My recommendation is, if your offspring is a good swimmer, might think of the Coast Guard.
When my uncle was in the Army, he got busted five times, but still retired as a top sergeant.
Navy. go Nuke and get an engineering degree. guns are easy
Meh, boarding party at sea and security force in port are constantly training, and in my case I probably did forty actual boardings between 2 CNOPS, and arms interdiction in the Adriatic enforcing the UN embargo against Former Yugoslavia. The Coast Guard has Legal Detachments with the same powers as Federal Marshals for interdiction. They’re pretty good actually. It’s not a force made up of backpacking rifleman, but there are shooting jobs if you want them.
My 11 y/o said he wanted to be in Space Force. I told him he had better be an officer or he would be refueling rockets for four years.
If I just wanted the experience before college I'd look hard at an Ranger or 18X contract. If I was going to do a career over again Airforce would be high on the list there are both trigger puller and REMF jobs just do the homework.
one son is going through AIT to be a weapons, navigation, and hydraulics mechanic for the apache. the other got back from MEPS with the air force 2 weeks ago....the air force does things differently i guess.
as a dad, i am proud. and relieved. i know both of them will have a team of adults in charge of them, and by the time they get out, they’ll be past the age where lots of stupid shit happens to young men.
from their perspective.....their living arrangements, meals, healthcare, and future tuition are covered. were i a young man again, i would definately take that route. i think it’s kinda foolish that more young people dont.
i would also encourage your son to look past his current interests, and seek a skill that will serve him well after his service. dickheads slapping together gun parts are a dime a dozen. do some research. make a wise choice now, he is set up for the rest of his life. make a poor choice, and he’ll still benefit, but not nearly as much. good luck to him, and you!
as a dad, i am proud. and relieved. i know both of them will have a team of adults in charge of them, and by the time they get out, they’ll be past the age where lots of stupid shit happens to young men.
from their perspective.....their living arrangements, meals, healthcare, and future tuition are covered. were i a young man again, i would definately take that route. i think it’s kinda foolish that more young people dont.
i would also encourage your son to look past his current interests, and seek a skill that will serve him well after his service. dickheads slapping together gun parts are a dime a dozen. do some research. make a wise choice now, he is set up for the rest of his life. make a poor choice, and he’ll still benefit, but not nearly as much. good luck to him, and you!
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Air force all the way.
not that I’m biased or anything...
Truthfully it really depends what he wants to do. If he wants a technical job and he is very smart and did very well in high school, join the Air Force / Space Force (probably go to college and join the USAF)
If hes really intelligent, single minded when it comes to getting stuff done, able to multitask, join the army and attempt to become a Green Beret. Think finesse with guns.
If the above is true but he really likes the water and I mean a lot, join the Navy… But I’m pretty sure you don’t become a seal until you’ve been in for at least six years. Think tradition, finesse, and, like the others, a shit load of hard work.
if he’s crazy and super gung ho and all he wants to do is kill everything that moves and doesn’t like the question orders of those above him, join the Marine Corps. Not an easy job but definitely a good bunch of folks who will iron any issues and stomp them into comformity. The Marines saveD my ass once or twice and they’re good at it. Think Hammer.
If he wants to become a law-enforcement officer at some point, then he should join the Coast Guard
not that I’m biased or anything...
Truthfully it really depends what he wants to do. If he wants a technical job and he is very smart and did very well in high school, join the Air Force / Space Force (probably go to college and join the USAF)
If hes really intelligent, single minded when it comes to getting stuff done, able to multitask, join the army and attempt to become a Green Beret. Think finesse with guns.
If the above is true but he really likes the water and I mean a lot, join the Navy… But I’m pretty sure you don’t become a seal until you’ve been in for at least six years. Think tradition, finesse, and, like the others, a shit load of hard work.
if he’s crazy and super gung ho and all he wants to do is kill everything that moves and doesn’t like the question orders of those above him, join the Marine Corps. Not an easy job but definitely a good bunch of folks who will iron any issues and stomp them into comformity. The Marines saveD my ass once or twice and they’re good at it. Think Hammer.
If he wants to become a law-enforcement officer at some point, then he should join the Coast Guard
Whichever branch gets to fucking nuke China.
You can obtain a SEAL, SWCC, or EOD contract prior to shipping out; you simply have to pass the mental requirements via ASVAB, the physical requirements via PST (Swim, push ups, sit ups, pull ups, run all with a competitive score as it’s draft-based), the medical at MEPS, and the moral (drugs/police/etc). If you get this contract, you’re in the program from day one, special divisions in basic and everything.
Air force all the way.
not that I’m biased or anything...
Truthfully it really depends what he wants to do. If he wants a technical job and he is very smart and did very well in high school, join the Air Force / Space Force (probably go to college and join the USAF)
If hes really intelligent, single minded when it comes to getting stuff done, able to multitask, join the army and attempt to become a Green Beret. Think finesse with guns.
If the above is true but he really likes the water and I mean a lot, join the Navy… But I’m pretty sure you don’t become a seal until you’ve been in for at least six years. Think tradition, finesse, and, like the others, a shit load of hard work.
if he’s crazy and super gung ho and all he wants to do is kill everything that moves and doesn’t like the question orders of those above him, join the Marine Corps. Not an easy job but definitely a good bunch of folks who will iron any issues and stomp them into comformity. The Marines saveD my ass once or twice and they’re good at it. Think Hammer.
If he wants to become a law-enforcement officer at some point, then he should join the Coast Guard
I was in Navy from 72-76 on a aircraft carrier. The huge plus that swayed me was the chance to see the world and applying my rate/job in the Navy over into civilian life. I did both !
In retrospect and my fondness for firearms , I might have changed rate , or had a promise to enter the Gunners Mate rate ....if not in the Navy , then the Coast Guard. Then once I completed my obligations , would probably gone to a Gunsmith School ?
In retrospect and my fondness for firearms , I might have changed rate , or had a promise to enter the Gunners Mate rate ....if not in the Navy , then the Coast Guard. Then once I completed my obligations , would probably gone to a Gunsmith School ?
D
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Yeah, but does sea pussy really count?
My little brother is in the Air Force. I've never served in any branch, but if I did it would be Marines.
Anyways, if I had to give advice to a young college aged Conservative, my advice would be to stay in school and get your degree and pursue a career. Ignore all the Leftist indoctrination and keep your Conservative views to yourself and don't engage in any political talk on campus. Just tough on through it and get your education and never look back once it's done.
Anyways, if I had to give advice to a young college aged Conservative, my advice would be to stay in school and get your degree and pursue a career. Ignore all the Leftist indoctrination and keep your Conservative views to yourself and don't engage in any political talk on campus. Just tough on through it and get your education and never look back once it's done.
I wanted Marines when I was a kid. Before I found out asthma was a DQ. 
Good guys here to talk to and listen to their stories.
A friend is on year 24 in AF. He said when he was in basic training, the Marines next door made the AF recruits look soft. I think he was in CA, but not sure.
Tag in @Dirty D for Coast Guard advice.
Good guys here to talk to and listen to their stories.
A friend is on year 24 in AF. He said when he was in basic training, the Marines next door made the AF recruits look soft. I think he was in CA, but not sure.
Tag in @Dirty D for Coast Guard advice.
Also, have a good friend who got his engineering degree and served on a sub for a few years.
He now lives back in CO and has an awesome engineering job.
Nothing to do with his Navy job (not a lot of nuke propulsion in the civilian market), but that experience has for sure given him a leg up.
He now lives back in CO and has an awesome engineering job.
Nothing to do with his Navy job (not a lot of nuke propulsion in the civilian market), but that experience has for sure given him a leg up.
The USCG is the underfunded red headed step child of the services, they are slowly modernizing the fleet but is is slow and frustrating. I know lots of airmen from Luke AFB and if he wants to be an engineer he should let the Air Force pay his way through school.
Hi,
IMO there is not a military branch that will provide anything truly useful in his quest to design and build firearms.
The military purchases firearms they do not really "design or build"....
My suggestion that will give him a leg up in that specific industry sector is find a CNC programming/operating trade school then transition into mechanical engineering.
Here is why I say that:
1. CNC programming/operating knowledge will give him a leg up on "pure" mechanical engineering papered people in the actual mechanical engineering school and in the real life job section. Lots of talented mechanical engineers cannot design shit that can actually BE made because they have no concept that the machine tool cannot perform the movement needed to make what they draw.
2. CNC programming/operating knowledge will provide him a rather nice paying job while going to engineering school. Which will allow him more time to dedicate to the actual engineering course.
3. A mechanical engineer that can machine and a machinist that can engineer is the Golden Ticket in his quest to design and build firearms.
There is not a military branch that can provide that knowledge and insight. There is a reason DOD facilities such as Crane NSWC Special Weapons Programs, Picatinny Arsenal, Quantico, etc etc ALL have civilian contracted personnel running the RDT&E weapons programs.
Sincerely,
Theis
IMO there is not a military branch that will provide anything truly useful in his quest to design and build firearms.
The military purchases firearms they do not really "design or build"....
My suggestion that will give him a leg up in that specific industry sector is find a CNC programming/operating trade school then transition into mechanical engineering.
Here is why I say that:
1. CNC programming/operating knowledge will give him a leg up on "pure" mechanical engineering papered people in the actual mechanical engineering school and in the real life job section. Lots of talented mechanical engineers cannot design shit that can actually BE made because they have no concept that the machine tool cannot perform the movement needed to make what they draw.
2. CNC programming/operating knowledge will provide him a rather nice paying job while going to engineering school. Which will allow him more time to dedicate to the actual engineering course.
3. A mechanical engineer that can machine and a machinist that can engineer is the Golden Ticket in his quest to design and build firearms.
There is not a military branch that can provide that knowledge and insight. There is a reason DOD facilities such as Crane NSWC Special Weapons Programs, Picatinny Arsenal, Quantico, etc etc ALL have civilian contracted personnel running the RDT&E weapons programs.
Sincerely,
Theis
Was thinking the same thing. Become a machinist. The trades are a lot safer for conservative thinkers also. And once he gets that trade certificate, there are plenty of ways to keep upgrading his schooling if he wants, and some pussy hat wearing professor will have a lot harder time trying to tell him how life works when he already has life experience.
It's too bad there isn't much for gunsmithing training at trades schools. I know there's been talk here in Canada about introducing courses on it as a way to make guns more mainstream, and make it harder to get rid of them when people have spent good money on learning how to build and repair them, and make careers out of it. Maybe there's something more along those lines on your side of the border though.
It's too bad there isn't much for gunsmithing training at trades schools. I know there's been talk here in Canada about introducing courses on it as a way to make guns more mainstream, and make it harder to get rid of them when people have spent good money on learning how to build and repair them, and make careers out of it. Maybe there's something more along those lines on your side of the border though.
If he's already gone through the typical college prep courses in high school (particularly pre-calc or AP calc), then I wouldn't recommend delaying entry into college. Much of that learning is perishable, at least as it pertains to the specifics that must be retained to advance. Even a "gap year" can cause a significant loss.
If this work hasn't yet been accomplished, then a gap between HS and college will not be as significant. And the first two years or so of preparatory work can be done at a local community college of choice, which is cheaper and allows for a more graceful detour to an alternative path if the student is simply not capable of performing math at the required level for an engineering degree.
Apprentice work in a machine shop or tool-and-die vocation would be very useful for future work as a product designer.
Plenty of engineering schools are available that do not have a typical liberal campus environment.
If this work hasn't yet been accomplished, then a gap between HS and college will not be as significant. And the first two years or so of preparatory work can be done at a local community college of choice, which is cheaper and allows for a more graceful detour to an alternative path if the student is simply not capable of performing math at the required level for an engineering degree.
Apprentice work in a machine shop or tool-and-die vocation would be very useful for future work as a product designer.
Plenty of engineering schools are available that do not have a typical liberal campus environment.
just a thought:
I commend your son for working at defining direction and purpose in life.
If your son truly has an interest in Engineering i would strongly advocate he pursues an academic course.
Several of my colleagues’ children joined the military with similar hopes, most (not all) ended up rather frustrated, shunted in directions they had little to no interest in pursuing. Those who joined after University or Graduate school seemed to have found a better balance and quality of life for themselves in the process. No doubt there are exceptions but that’s been my observation.
The reality is that going into most any setting with prejudices and preconceived ideas can often prove inaccurate, incorrect and likely will inhibit personal and professional growth.
There are lots of great people and influences to be found most everywhere, be it in a fox hole or a university setting, if you open yourself up to them and learn the rules. Working with different types of people in different settings requires a mature skill set. There will be challenges and frustrations in any experience particularly as one is evolving and growing. Those same skills will serve him well regardless of where he might find himself in the future.
I commend your son for working at defining direction and purpose in life.
If your son truly has an interest in Engineering i would strongly advocate he pursues an academic course.
Several of my colleagues’ children joined the military with similar hopes, most (not all) ended up rather frustrated, shunted in directions they had little to no interest in pursuing. Those who joined after University or Graduate school seemed to have found a better balance and quality of life for themselves in the process. No doubt there are exceptions but that’s been my observation.
The reality is that going into most any setting with prejudices and preconceived ideas can often prove inaccurate, incorrect and likely will inhibit personal and professional growth.
There are lots of great people and influences to be found most everywhere, be it in a fox hole or a university setting, if you open yourself up to them and learn the rules. Working with different types of people in different settings requires a mature skill set. There will be challenges and frustrations in any experience particularly as one is evolving and growing. Those same skills will serve him well regardless of where he might find himself in the future.
He should start where everyone else starts: Taking the Asvab and doing the meps screening. When he gets his asvab score then he knows what he qualifies for. Then he can decide what he wants. What you want is always at the bottom of what the military needs. If he wants to be an armorer then have him look at that. If he wants more to be more involved in the process, then there are positions in the SOF community that make those decisions and conduct testing and help curve the designs of experimental weapons. It would be a long road with little to no reward.
I agree with @THEIS on this one.
However, the Air Force has a career field in aircraft maintenance that is a Machinest specialty.
They learn the basics in tech school of machining, welding, heat treating, annealing and whatnot.
Once they get stationed, they will learn CNC and actually make real parts.
I spent 17yrs with the B-1B program and our machinists made a ton of very complicated parts from engineer blueprints/drawings.
Plus, they got to make some fun stuff that probably would get you demoted in the current Air Force.
Use the GI bill and CLEP to get the engineering degree
However, the Air Force has a career field in aircraft maintenance that is a Machinest specialty.
They learn the basics in tech school of machining, welding, heat treating, annealing and whatnot.
Once they get stationed, they will learn CNC and actually make real parts.
I spent 17yrs with the B-1B program and our machinists made a ton of very complicated parts from engineer blueprints/drawings.
Plus, they got to make some fun stuff that probably would get you demoted in the current Air Force.
Use the GI bill and CLEP to get the engineering degree
A lot of the recent comments above concerning where the real education comes from is why I suggested going reserves/NG early on in this thread. Sorry for the short response then, that was my two minutes of scrolling the Hide before heading to bed so it didn't get a thorough answer. But, I got a little time now so I'll try to expand a good bit.
First and foremost, your boy will do what he wants, and as a parent, veteran, and former USMC recruiter, I highly encourage our education and nudging in a good direction of our young as well as taking a hands off and let them become a man choosing their own path. Good on you OP for trying to get some outside advice on how to guide him, and it sounds like you're taking the "trust in him" approach while trying to give him a good azimuth for him to follow. I was Marines, wife was Army, oldest step-son is active duty Navy, middle one is prior Army, and my teenage daughter is looking at military once she's old enough. We're very much a military family, and we know all too well both the pros and the cons with military service.
The military is far from a trade school, and is anything but a learning ground for an engineer short of civil engineering type work. They don't design a single thing, that's done by private industry, all they do is come up with specs to be followed and even that is 95% done by DoD civilians. For actual uniformed personnel, everything is user and maintenance level knowledge, and the majority of the time, especially when it comes to weapons, the users aren't the ones doing the maintenance other than basic preventative maintenance. I would highly discourage anyone from seeking out military service where their primary goal is understanding the core functioning of weaponry, instead it is understanding the usage and employment of weaponry. I hope I'm explaining the difference well enough there to be understood.
For anyone to be successful in military service, they need to understand the service side of it. The US gets more out of them than the service member gets out of the military. It's sacrificing of freedoms, the body, and the mind in many ways too. There's more rules and structure there than anywhere in free society. As much as it builds a man's body, it breaks it and leads to a lifetime of aching and pain. And with the mind, well, ignoring the mental effects of the latter mentioned, not to mention if there's combat service involved, is dramatic. That's why, even as a struggling recruiter during the height of the Iraq War, I would make sure anyone I took to MEPS was 100% on board with the knowledge they were entering into a world of sacrifice. Nobody, absolutely nobody, should join any branch for college money or trade learning as their #1 goal.
What young men and women get from the military, more than anything else, is the discipline and strength to succeed in life. It's not the only place one learn that, but it's certainly the top place outside good parenting. Even the best of us had some shit head traits when we were in our late teens and early twenties, and entering into that world of sacrifice and structure helps rid the mind of those. It's not perfect, there's definitely a 10% that never takes to it, but by and large those who are serving or are veterans gain it and keep it for life. I haven't been in uniform for 14 years, yet "who did you serve with" is one of the early questions when meeting anyone new because it has stuck with me and it shows without me ever trying.
But enough of my generalized ranting, here's why I say reserves for your boy. First, when joining the reserves, you're joining for a specific spot, MOS and location. There's no dream sheet or occupation field bullshit involved where the service gets to later choose how and where you serve, because you're joining for a specific MOS at a specifically based location. That even includes Marine Corps, the worst offenders of the "needs of service" mantra for active duty personnel. He would join the service, go through all the training, and then be assigned to a unit to be utilized as necessary. Reserve and NG units get a shit ton of schooling opportunities to advance one's career, most of which go unfilled because everyone is too busy with their regular life to bother going to the schools. I've known several who got out and went reserves just to get school opportunities like jump, dive, Sniper, SERE and Ranger, then return to active duty schooled out and running with the big dogs. Once he's on the reserve side of things doing his one weekend a month, he can pursue education or craft he wants.
Almost every single job filled by active duty is also found in the reserves. SOCOM wise there's even 19th and 20th SFG as well as ST 17 and 18. PJs, CCTs, TACP, and USMC Recon are all found in the reserves. Yes, it's very competitive to get into those units, not being in a rush is a big advantage.
Finally, I absolutely discourage going "armorer" in any branch if one wants to learn weaponry. Basic wrench turner is all it is. Even the USMC 2112 is nowhere near what it used to be.
Good luck to your boy in whatever he chooses. He sounds like a very fine lad and citizen.
First and foremost, your boy will do what he wants, and as a parent, veteran, and former USMC recruiter, I highly encourage our education and nudging in a good direction of our young as well as taking a hands off and let them become a man choosing their own path. Good on you OP for trying to get some outside advice on how to guide him, and it sounds like you're taking the "trust in him" approach while trying to give him a good azimuth for him to follow. I was Marines, wife was Army, oldest step-son is active duty Navy, middle one is prior Army, and my teenage daughter is looking at military once she's old enough. We're very much a military family, and we know all too well both the pros and the cons with military service.
The military is far from a trade school, and is anything but a learning ground for an engineer short of civil engineering type work. They don't design a single thing, that's done by private industry, all they do is come up with specs to be followed and even that is 95% done by DoD civilians. For actual uniformed personnel, everything is user and maintenance level knowledge, and the majority of the time, especially when it comes to weapons, the users aren't the ones doing the maintenance other than basic preventative maintenance. I would highly discourage anyone from seeking out military service where their primary goal is understanding the core functioning of weaponry, instead it is understanding the usage and employment of weaponry. I hope I'm explaining the difference well enough there to be understood.
For anyone to be successful in military service, they need to understand the service side of it. The US gets more out of them than the service member gets out of the military. It's sacrificing of freedoms, the body, and the mind in many ways too. There's more rules and structure there than anywhere in free society. As much as it builds a man's body, it breaks it and leads to a lifetime of aching and pain. And with the mind, well, ignoring the mental effects of the latter mentioned, not to mention if there's combat service involved, is dramatic. That's why, even as a struggling recruiter during the height of the Iraq War, I would make sure anyone I took to MEPS was 100% on board with the knowledge they were entering into a world of sacrifice. Nobody, absolutely nobody, should join any branch for college money or trade learning as their #1 goal.
What young men and women get from the military, more than anything else, is the discipline and strength to succeed in life. It's not the only place one learn that, but it's certainly the top place outside good parenting. Even the best of us had some shit head traits when we were in our late teens and early twenties, and entering into that world of sacrifice and structure helps rid the mind of those. It's not perfect, there's definitely a 10% that never takes to it, but by and large those who are serving or are veterans gain it and keep it for life. I haven't been in uniform for 14 years, yet "who did you serve with" is one of the early questions when meeting anyone new because it has stuck with me and it shows without me ever trying.
But enough of my generalized ranting, here's why I say reserves for your boy. First, when joining the reserves, you're joining for a specific spot, MOS and location. There's no dream sheet or occupation field bullshit involved where the service gets to later choose how and where you serve, because you're joining for a specific MOS at a specifically based location. That even includes Marine Corps, the worst offenders of the "needs of service" mantra for active duty personnel. He would join the service, go through all the training, and then be assigned to a unit to be utilized as necessary. Reserve and NG units get a shit ton of schooling opportunities to advance one's career, most of which go unfilled because everyone is too busy with their regular life to bother going to the schools. I've known several who got out and went reserves just to get school opportunities like jump, dive, Sniper, SERE and Ranger, then return to active duty schooled out and running with the big dogs. Once he's on the reserve side of things doing his one weekend a month, he can pursue education or craft he wants.
Almost every single job filled by active duty is also found in the reserves. SOCOM wise there's even 19th and 20th SFG as well as ST 17 and 18. PJs, CCTs, TACP, and USMC Recon are all found in the reserves. Yes, it's very competitive to get into those units, not being in a rush is a big advantage.
Finally, I absolutely discourage going "armorer" in any branch if one wants to learn weaponry. Basic wrench turner is all it is. Even the USMC 2112 is nowhere near what it used to be.
Good luck to your boy in whatever he chooses. He sounds like a very fine lad and citizen.
All of this times a sideways 8 on days that end in “y” (to also include leap years). I can’t think of anything to add because this sums it up best. Anyone can turn a wrench on a gun and I wouldn’t wish being an Armory NCO on anyone.
A guaranteed MOS and unit/posting is almost impossible to beat.
Well, IF he can manage to get in a contract a job as the armorer at an SF compound (this will require airborne training) say at Ft. Lewis, they have/had a gunsmith shop there. I got offered the job when the previous two retired if went to gunsmith school (paid for) but went to university instead. Sorta regret that sometimes. They ALWAYS had all the newest shit, ALWAYS! And access to EVERYTHING. Full shop. Not an armorer, they had full smithing services there.
Mind you there are only so many of these though. May be better to get his army shit done, then go to university and get an engineering degree then apply at Crane or KAC or something. In that case, wouldn't matter much what he did in the army. And if he gets bad grades in math or engineering, well, promise it'll have nothing to do with commies one way or another. That's in the basketweaving/useless degree category which I'm sure he'll be steering clear of.
But you gotta go to this school in CO that can be costly if VA ain't paying for it. Several firearms are required, own tools, etc. Stuff you'll need after graduation though.
Make DAMN SURE that he does NOT sign any contract that doesn't have EXACTLY what he wants. They'll give it to him if it exists, trust me, it took me three trips before they'd give me infantry (kept trying to push me into MI and then some airborne laser designator job (which actually turned out to be the titties and I should've taken it but HAD to be a gunslinger)...
Mind you there are only so many of these though. May be better to get his army shit done, then go to university and get an engineering degree then apply at Crane or KAC or something. In that case, wouldn't matter much what he did in the army. And if he gets bad grades in math or engineering, well, promise it'll have nothing to do with commies one way or another. That's in the basketweaving/useless degree category which I'm sure he'll be steering clear of.
But you gotta go to this school in CO that can be costly if VA ain't paying for it. Several firearms are required, own tools, etc. Stuff you'll need after graduation though.
Make DAMN SURE that he does NOT sign any contract that doesn't have EXACTLY what he wants. They'll give it to him if it exists, trust me, it took me three trips before they'd give me infantry (kept trying to push me into MI and then some airborne laser designator job (which actually turned out to be the titties and I should've taken it but HAD to be a gunslinger)...
First off the doors are pretty wide open to any service. I doubt there's anyone turning him away with a decent ASVAB score. If he's going to be one and done he isn't going to get to the best of the best right off the bat. Can it happen...sure, but people want IN to "those" units all the time.
One hitch:
USMC: Probably the first thing alone that will get him hired without question outside the service.
Army: Good training, even better if you have a Ranger Tab on the outside.
Air Force: Sure....enjoy the cable TV and swimming pools....AF tends to breed their people a certain way...
Navy: For sure some of the best technical schools out there. Hard to grasp being on a ship for 6 months out at sea.
Coast Guard: Hidden Gem for sure but you got to be that guy ridin' a semi-sub drug vessel to get really cool points.
IF there's ANY hint he could make a career of it. Find the service that offers something in a Warrant Officer or Commissioned Officer program that he can step up and get REAL good training.
I for one like his idea...Let me use the crap, learn what makes it break, then figure out the way to make it better.
BTW you don't need the GI BILL while active duty. If they still have it Tuition Assistance is there and can be used quite a bit.
One hitch:
USMC: Probably the first thing alone that will get him hired without question outside the service.
Army: Good training, even better if you have a Ranger Tab on the outside.
Air Force: Sure....enjoy the cable TV and swimming pools....AF tends to breed their people a certain way...
Navy: For sure some of the best technical schools out there. Hard to grasp being on a ship for 6 months out at sea.
Coast Guard: Hidden Gem for sure but you got to be that guy ridin' a semi-sub drug vessel to get really cool points.
IF there's ANY hint he could make a career of it. Find the service that offers something in a Warrant Officer or Commissioned Officer program that he can step up and get REAL good training.
I for one like his idea...Let me use the crap, learn what makes it break, then figure out the way to make it better.
BTW you don't need the GI BILL while active duty. If they still have it Tuition Assistance is there and can be used quite a bit.
Heh.
It sorta, and mean sorta, depends on when you went through basic training.
USAF basic in the late 1980s was a total joke (that's when I went in)...
Not kidding, the day we learned about the M-16 the instructor get's in front of the assembled squadrons and says
"This is the M16 rifle. Take a good look at it. Many of you will never use one again!"
Bahahaha.
Some time in the 1990s they extended BMT and started teaching everyone how to disassemble, clean, maintain, and use the weapons.
No shit.
I’d venture to say, don’t forget about ROTC Scholarship programs. I know for a fact the Navy offers one, it just requires 5 years of publishers as an officer afterwards. In this way, he gets his engineering degree, and assuming he joins either the civil engineering corps or the surface engineering track, then also gets to practice that skill.
USAF. Three hots and a cot every day, minimum
You just say that because you didn't have to live with the Army... not to mention an officer AND a fighter jock!
Last paragraph for real.
I told my recruiter I wanted 0311 and 0311 only.
He said "Yep, you got it!"
When I went to MEPS there was a big "menu" board of contracts.
I looked up and saw I was "Combat Arms".....any 03, AAV, Tanks, Arty.
The next menu item was 03 only....11, 50, 41, 31.
I said give me a #2 with extra duck sauce or I walk. Guy said the recruiter would be mad but changed it.
Figured one of four was better than the other contract.
Recruiter did ask what happened but fuck him. Heard he later got caught banging groupie Poolie Chicks.
At ITS I scored 0351/52. Gunny wasn't listening to my protest about wanting to be an 11.
Geeks carry more than Rocks in the USMC.
For me it was exactly the opposite... The guy at the MEPS said... “You’re 17 and you aced the ASVAB. What do you what to do son?” “Something with electronics sir..” “ I have something called a cryptographic systems technician.” “Is it hard, do they go cool places.” “ Most people can’t pass the background check. It’s hard; at least 40% washout. And like anything else in the Air Force you can be stationed literally anywhere.” “ OK, signed me up.”
I did however have a contract, which they did not do for long, which basically said that if they didn’t give me that they had to let me out of the Air Force.
I did however have a contract, which they did not do for long, which basically said that if they didn’t give me that they had to let me out of the Air Force.
I so badly wanted to be marine and still think about it all the time. Unfortunately health issues would not let me join. I wanted to be part of the team that was America’s 911. I am so grateful to all those who have served and am forever in debt to them.
Sweet mother of god no. I went "in" and wanted to be a corpsman but if you score really well on the ASVAB they keep harassing you until you take the simple math test to go nuke. Thankfully I was a dumb alcoholic at the time and got a DUI so I got the boot before even going to boot camp.
It is a great career path especially after the military if your concern is money (they do quite well). The monotony though, I would lose it. Bless those who can do that MOS day in and day out.
Funny thing was… After I get into the Air Force… Every single one of them said I should’ve been a marine.
I spent a lot of time with the Marines. I only ran into one that just absolutely drove me bad shit crazy, but a Marine Corps Brigadier General took care of that problem. Heh.
I spent a lot of time with the Marines. I only ran into one that just absolutely drove me bad shit crazy, but a Marine Corps Brigadier General took care of that problem. Heh.
I believe the phrase you’re looking for is “ Mama didn’t raise no dummy.”
Besides, I got you guys to watch my ass and I didn’t have to go through your basic training!
and for some reason you guys all thought I was a sergeant when I was a senior airman.... bahahahaha
Ah. Pog of the grunts. Better than being a 41. I never met a NOT weird mortarman.
Free advice just like all the ones above.
I have known some guys that work on weapons for SMU's and other organizations. They generally seem happy enough, but there is very little career progression in that slot. Most of the heavy lifting is done by contractors or GS guys who are much older than your son. If you think that being an armorer prepares him for some clandestine skunk works type position, it usually doesn't. The military at large is shifting towards some really interesting small arms technologies and almost all of it is built using assemblies. Its modernization, change out an assembly vs. hand fitting parts or making 1 off parts.
If he is as tough, ambitious and gun savvy maybe going into SF as a Bravo would be a better option. He could learn plenty about weapons, a foreign language and depending on the Group he could even start a second family in another county.
If you go to SHOT Show, SOFIC or Youtube, rarely is it a gunsmith or armorer that you see high up in the defense industry. Most often it is the CSM or 05+ end user, retired, running a division of a company. Armorers and smiths are "support guys" and most often never rise above gun waitress status.
I know some of the advice strayed beyond what was asked, but it was included in the price. Just because someone likes guns doesn't mean that working on them everyday is the answer. I'm sure most gynecologists get tired of looking at smashed pus that someone else broke and they have to fix.
PM me if you want to have a phone conversation about more of this stuff. The career stuff about guns not the smashed pus.
I have known some guys that work on weapons for SMU's and other organizations. They generally seem happy enough, but there is very little career progression in that slot. Most of the heavy lifting is done by contractors or GS guys who are much older than your son. If you think that being an armorer prepares him for some clandestine skunk works type position, it usually doesn't. The military at large is shifting towards some really interesting small arms technologies and almost all of it is built using assemblies. Its modernization, change out an assembly vs. hand fitting parts or making 1 off parts.
If he is as tough, ambitious and gun savvy maybe going into SF as a Bravo would be a better option. He could learn plenty about weapons, a foreign language and depending on the Group he could even start a second family in another county.
If you go to SHOT Show, SOFIC or Youtube, rarely is it a gunsmith or armorer that you see high up in the defense industry. Most often it is the CSM or 05+ end user, retired, running a division of a company. Armorers and smiths are "support guys" and most often never rise above gun waitress status.
I know some of the advice strayed beyond what was asked, but it was included in the price. Just because someone likes guns doesn't mean that working on them everyday is the answer. I'm sure most gynecologists get tired of looking at smashed pus that someone else broke and they have to fix.
PM me if you want to have a phone conversation about more of this stuff. The career stuff about guns not the smashed pus.
