If we're talking 7.3, no F'g way. Best I could get with my '01 350 was 18 unloaded highway.
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Which Heavy Duty Truck?
- Thread starter Luke
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That front end replacent and grill adds some weight.
I was told the newer Super Dutys were lighter.
My 01' 350 empty is 6,800 + -.
And Tony Wildman
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With the older fords (7.3’s) Jody Tipton @ DP Tuner was the way.
Glad to see they finally came up with more than just the disaster kit to address the CP4 issues in the 6.7’s . Conversion kit looks to be good stuff
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I have a ram 5500 4x4, 2500 4x4 and a powerstroke excursion. I have a 6.7 ford at work.
I don't like aluminum bodies and the awful turn radius of the ford. The 5500 4x4 is the obvious king of towing and stopping big loads. My best scale so far has been 38k and it was no issue.
The 7.3 powerstroke has plenty of tow and go fast additions and I still keep it in my fleet because it is just dead nuts reliable. Been on the hook 2x in 300k miles. Lost a injector at 200 and turbo at 290k.
The 2500 is a 5.9 cummins and it is the most powerful truck I own with 650 dyno runs. It's also the least friendly to drive and I am always waiting for the drive shaft to twist off when passing someone with a trailer on.
They all do something better and worse than the others.
I sold my duramax just before the 5500 showed up. I really didn't have any complaints about it other than it was very soft suspension when towing and I slipped the Allison on a 100hp tune. It was a good truck and had the most comfortable ride.....with the loaded 5500 on its heels. That truck is a loaded laramie with vinyl floors.....just perfect.
I don't like aluminum bodies and the awful turn radius of the ford. The 5500 4x4 is the obvious king of towing and stopping big loads. My best scale so far has been 38k and it was no issue.
The 7.3 powerstroke has plenty of tow and go fast additions and I still keep it in my fleet because it is just dead nuts reliable. Been on the hook 2x in 300k miles. Lost a injector at 200 and turbo at 290k.
The 2500 is a 5.9 cummins and it is the most powerful truck I own with 650 dyno runs. It's also the least friendly to drive and I am always waiting for the drive shaft to twist off when passing someone with a trailer on.
They all do something better and worse than the others.
I sold my duramax just before the 5500 showed up. I really didn't have any complaints about it other than it was very soft suspension when towing and I slipped the Allison on a 100hp tune. It was a good truck and had the most comfortable ride.....with the loaded 5500 on its heels. That truck is a loaded laramie with vinyl floors.....just perfect.
I like my 92 Trooper, that 150hp to the wheels is mind numbing. It teaches patience and planning (passing anything). It WILL humble you. Heaven knows I need that.
I bet you're a real blast to be stuck behind on a two lane road.
I'm a big fan of the Chevy 2500. I've had mine since December 2021 and it's been solid.
Hey. It looks cool. That’s all that matters. Hollywood says so.
No shit! Hence the different settings dumb ass. I drove across the panhandle of FL on I-10 and the truck computer said we were getting 40+ going 75mph, empty.
He was in sport mode when his truck was broken into, they took the programer. He has to go to the dealership to have it flashed back to the stock tune so he could tow his camper home. If you don't know Jack shit about tuning programers, maybe keep your soup sucker shut and listen, you may even learn something...
What computer said it was 40+ mpg and did you hand calculate to back it up? Also, did you have cruise control on?
I have no reason to lie or embellish, not even my truck.
Maybe the difference is the Full Banks turbo/intercooler upgrade, and air bags are awesome. Went with him to pick up tile, the forklift driver asked when he was coming back for the 2nd, Mark told him he wasn't, and to load it. Barely squatted, driver had to go get his boss to see, blew their minds.
I know of 3 different people that Mark pulled his tune out of his truck and put it in theirs to prove the claims, after a couple of weeks he'd pull his tune back out, and all 3 rushed and spent the $5-600 for a tuner. Again I don't care if you don't believe me, if you're driving around without a tuner that would pay for itself in a few months, you're stupid!
No I was "driving", making time! The over head computer that Ford installs in all their FX4s and Lariats.
And whose tunes are these that gets you over 2x the mileage of a stock 7.3?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Difference is, your statement is made from a lack of knowledge. I do believe you that the overhead computer was displaying 35-40mpg. However, in reality, you were not.
The rpm won't kill anything. My Duramax runs 3500rpm pulling up hills at full boost. My 6.0 gasser will pull the same hills at the same speed at 5000rpm.
What kills me is that the new diesels are rated for peak torque where they will never run. The TCM does it's best to keep you above peak torque because they know it will break if it is trying to make full power under a big load down at 1500-1700rpm.
Low rpm kills parts. Combustion pressure vs time. Lugging a motor will break pistons. This is why gassers are all setup to make peak torque up at 4000rpm and carry up to peak horsepower at 5500+.
The drag race guys that are pushing 3000hp on boosted big blocks figured it out a long time ago. They can make 70psi of boost at 8000rpm and keep a motor alive for thousands of miles. That same motor will blow rods out of the block if it hits 50psi at 3000rpm.
Where the diesel will kill you is any issues are big $. If mine comes out of the shop with a sub $5k bill it's a win. Just had injectors done, that was $6k. My buddies Ford blew up a cp4 pump and it was $15k at the Ford dealer for a new fuel system from the tank to injectors. No warranty if he only did the $2000 fuel pump as they send metal through the entire system.
Thanks for this reply!
Man, you guys are terrifying me with those crazy huge diesel repair bills. But twice the torque of a gas engine is significant.
Okay I guess my fear of abusing my engine when it shifts to high rpm's on the hill appears to be not such a big deal after all/ which makes me feel much better about it. And it's not like I'm going up those steep hills frequently anyway.
My truck has been paid off for 3 years which has been a great relief financially. That being said I think my first step should be trying a chip. Maybe it'll make enough difference. I shouldn't be surprised, but I still am, that the extra 1500-2000 pounds of weight on my 5th wheel compared to my previous travel trailer makes my truck do this but it is what it is.
My 5thW is winterized and the lithium batteries are removed into a heated storage space so I won't be getting it out till springtime which gives me time to continue research.
The Options...
If the chip doesn't work well enough I'm leaning towards getting a 2017-18 Cummins. Part of that is my Anderson hitch is for Dodge and I'd have to sell it and replace it with another if I get another brand truck. I know not much difference but something else to hassle with.
Or should I seriously consider turbo charging my engine since it's only got 30,000 miles. Probably cost what $12,000 or so?? Is that a waste of money??
Or get a 2024 2500 gas truck because of those 8 speed or 10 speed transmissions. I can afford to buy outright once I sell my current truck to use those funds towards the new one.
I don’t think I would turbo the gas engine for towing that’s usually more for a performance standpoint, I think you would have more issues down the line towing. You might run into cooling issues and tranny issues when towing heavy in hills but I can’t say for sure.
I wouldn’t turbo your gasser. Additions like that require more upgrades plus more upgrades to ensure your motor / trans can handle the additional power. It’s ends up being a money pit and even then, It still wouldn’t haul like a diesel. If towing is something you’re gonna be doing on the regular, get a diesel, thrown some air bags on it and call it good.
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From an ROI standpoint alone, going turbo on the gasser is a losing endeavor. $12k? That's a new engine at the dealership. The added stress on the engine will also reduce longevity.
I'd ask myself this: Does it do the job? In other words, do you get to the destinations you want to get to? If that's still a "Yes", then I'd leave it alone for the most part. At most, I'd look to regear to a 4.56 or so, especially if sitting on 3.73 right now for a good balance of mechanical advantage gearing while still being able to hit freeway speeds under 3k RPM. I assume with 30k miles on a several year old truck it's not something you're commuting in, so the fuel efficiency loss on a daily basis (ballpark losing 2-3 MPG) would be no significant impact. You can probably find your stock gear ratio on your door tag or on a tag on your diff, I'm not really sure where Ram puts theirs.
Gearing is the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to towing/climbing. Even on an HD pickup you can get it done at a quality shop for under $3k and improve off-roading at the same time for little more if you're on an open diff, as adding a posi/locker while everything else is all in pieces is little more labor at all.
I look at gearing like this: Lou Ferrigno can break loose wheel lugs with a shorty socket wrench, but Lady Gaga could do the same with a 24" breaker bar. Mechanical advantage of gearing is just a more efficient way of doing the same work with little added in the way of input speeds.
My work truck is a '21 F250, 6.2 gas with 3.73 gears, sits around 9k lbs tooled up on a daily basis and has never had anything on the bumper. Running the Wyoming highways on cruise at 70mph, even mild hills knocks me down to 4th gear and even 3rd when the winds are stiff on the nose. It's just the nature of gassers and double OD transmissions, where 4th is the 1:1.00 ratio gear. Getting downshifted isn't a bad thing, it's just how they behave these days with fuel efficiency being a federal mandated priority in the shift step programming and having multiple OD gears above 1:1 available.
I'd ask myself this: Does it do the job? In other words, do you get to the destinations you want to get to? If that's still a "Yes", then I'd leave it alone for the most part. At most, I'd look to regear to a 4.56 or so, especially if sitting on 3.73 right now for a good balance of mechanical advantage gearing while still being able to hit freeway speeds under 3k RPM. I assume with 30k miles on a several year old truck it's not something you're commuting in, so the fuel efficiency loss on a daily basis (ballpark losing 2-3 MPG) would be no significant impact. You can probably find your stock gear ratio on your door tag or on a tag on your diff, I'm not really sure where Ram puts theirs.
Gearing is the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to towing/climbing. Even on an HD pickup you can get it done at a quality shop for under $3k and improve off-roading at the same time for little more if you're on an open diff, as adding a posi/locker while everything else is all in pieces is little more labor at all.
I look at gearing like this: Lou Ferrigno can break loose wheel lugs with a shorty socket wrench, but Lady Gaga could do the same with a 24" breaker bar. Mechanical advantage of gearing is just a more efficient way of doing the same work with little added in the way of input speeds.
My work truck is a '21 F250, 6.2 gas with 3.73 gears, sits around 9k lbs tooled up on a daily basis and has never had anything on the bumper. Running the Wyoming highways on cruise at 70mph, even mild hills knocks me down to 4th gear and even 3rd when the winds are stiff on the nose. It's just the nature of gassers and double OD transmissions, where 4th is the 1:1.00 ratio gear. Getting downshifted isn't a bad thing, it's just how they behave these days with fuel efficiency being a federal mandated priority in the shift step programming and having multiple OD gears above 1:1 available.
Sound advise. II was in the same position as the OP a few years back. Had an 08 F250 5.4 gasser. Didn’t have the cash to get a diesel so a through some gears on it and it got the job done. Good as a diesel? Nope, but it got the job done and hauled my 33’ Mountaineer TT around for years with it.
Go with the gears, some air bags and be done with it. Your wallet will thank you. Hard to beat a truck that’s already paid off
You are stupid. The computer is being lied to by the tune. Yes, programmers are in my experience too. The only way to known accurate mileage is to properly track miles driven and fuel needed at fill up.
You’re wrong dude… maybe your friend is embellishing. There ain’t a diesel truck on the road getting anywhere near 40mpg. Less than 1/2 of that is more realistic. Doesn’t matter what tune / engine mods he’s got unless that engine mod turned his diesel into a Prius, he ain’t getting 40mpg.
@Emerson0311 is right. Only way to accurately track mpg is to record odometer reading against the gallons of fuel you’ve burned at your next fill up.
For a tow rig I'd do a supercharger like the Whipple rather than a turbo. Instant response. Turbos are finicky to get sized correctly and even the factory vvt is annoying in the mountains with feeling laggy in the diesels.
Be prepared for single digit towing fuel mileage.
My 18 Duramax gets 10mpg pulling the same thing my 16 6.0 gas gets 6mpg. Those 4mpg aren't any cheaper at the pump since diesel has been $1 more than gas for awhile. Add in 2x the cost to change oil, 10x the cost for fuel pumps, injectors, etc. Diesel isn't cheaper, it's just costing you in different places.
Most of the tuner boxes are nothing more than shift point changes on the gas trucks. At most it's a 15-20hp bump which they get with extra timing. Generally the extra will be pulled and then some if it pre-detonates under load and trips the knock sensor.
My 16 has 310k on it. No oil burning or leaks, I just keep changing it with Mobil 1 when the computer says it's due.
It's a Chevy, so I keep up on the front end so it doesn't eat tires.
I don't think you can get a better drivetrain than Chevy in a 3500. The Dodge interiors fall apart quick but a Cummins will run forever with expensive maintenance. Ford interiors will look new at 300k but my last one took $40k to keep running that long.
Depending on how the tuner is manipulating the fuel tables, the truck display will be crazy off or right on.
I had a tuned lbz that said 26mpg, but would hand calculate to 16mpg.
The really fun thing is it still said 18mpg towing, but it was really 9mpg.
Isn't that how everybody intelligent tracks MPG?
Thanks for that advice and well put examples. It would be nice having a posi locker put in at the same time.
Guess I'll put the turbo charging out of my mind.
I went looking for my window sticker but couldn't find it and the rear differential info wasn't in the door panel. But sounds like I'd be best served getting a different gear ratio.
Merry Christmas to all and thanks for the help!
Gear ratio can be found via vin lookup.
Maybe not the best use if funds unless it's strictly a tow rig.
The rear gear is kinda dated. A new truck with a 6 speed can have a much wider range than the older 3 and 4 speed trucks.
For instance, my 00 is 2.48:1 1st, .85:1 4th. My 16 is 4.06:1 1st, .65:1 6th.
So with both trucks having 4.10:1 rear gears, the 00 struggles with a heavy load getting started, and runs higher rpm down the highway. However, the 16 has better bottom end with the lower first gear, and better cruising rpm with the higher top gear. It just pulls hard all the way and can always find a gear that works.
If the truck jumps to and pulls from a stop your rear-end is just fine. I wouldn't spend the money, as on top of gears for both axles you'll need to have a dealer or a tuner correct for gears and tire size to keep the computer happy. If you don't correct it, it can have all sorts of odd affects on the trans shift points.
You can always have a limited slip or locker installed with your current gear set.
Just let it run in the gear it wants with tow/haul engaged. By running a lower rear gear you may move up a transmission gear, but it'll still take a given amount of power to move the load and it won't affect fuel economy or seat of the pants power when you're cruising.
A limited slip or locker will do nothing for towing though unless your were in an off-road condition such as sand or mud
There’s a happy medium of gears. To low and not great for an every day driver. To high and not so great for hauling. There’s a sweet spot to be had somewhere in between. He’ll Lose some top end but it’ll tow better. Speedometer / etc can be rest with with a simple tuner same as if he went with larger tires.
Not a chance man…. Nothing special about super chips. It’s just another off the shelf cookie cutter tuner. as I recall back in the early 2000’s, Super Chips was one of the few off the shelf tuners available for 7.3’s. I’ve had one and and have also had a 7.3 live tuned by Jody at DP Tuner. Even having one of the best tuners in the game live tune your truck in person so he can develop custom programs for your specific truck won’t get you anywhere close to that.
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Jody and the DP Tuner have been around for a looong time. He must walk the walk.
But like you say, if anyone could produce a chip that got a 7.3 as good a mileage as a Harley it would be revolutionary.
I'll withhold my derision to give you a chance to explain this.
The way you have it written makes a person think that electronics somehow *mysteriously* add a physical gear to the trans.
It doesn't work that way.
There was an update for some Chrysler transmissions to turn them into a 5 speed when they were sold as a 4 speed. Mostly jeeps, but they shared stuff between the Grand Cherokee and RAM 1500.
Basically they were built and sold with the intention of being a 4 speed, as one of the band/planet combos was only a small fraction of the normal gear jump.
But for fuel economy they figured out they could squeeze a little but more by using that half step (think it was added between 3&4, but it's been awhile).
So while he's totally off on the 2 computers, there was a software update to change shift strategy that did add an extra gear. It may or may not disable with tow/haul mode.
There's actually a few designs that could technically have 1 or 2 extra gears but the ratios don't make sense so they were never used.
Yes.
However, spending $3-4k at a shop to do gears just so you can move from 3rd to 4th gear and lose high speed fuel economy isn't exactly a great way to spend money.
Most truck tires are speed rated to 99mph, so real top end isn't a huge deal. But going way too low and spinning high rpm on the interstate unloaded sucks fuel like crazy.
The newer 10 speed trans are even better in this regard. 20 years ago you had to go to 4.56s to get ratios that you can have with 3.73s or 3.31s now.
No. My sister and BIL both have RAMS. Failing wiring harness, cracked dashes, door panels falling apart, etc.
They're better than the older ones, but when I get into a 100k mile truck that is only half working and sounds like a box of broken plastic going down the road, I'm inclined to disagree.
To be fair, my 07 Cummins shook the entire truck apart. Think I did door harnesses 6x in 250k, and replaced the seat 3x because the springs would break. Also ate 3 transmissions before the shop figured out the overdrive harness was broken and shorting out and killing the solenoids in the valve body. Truck got sold because Dodge discontinued the wiring harnesses and I was sick of cruise control, windows, locks, etc not working.
So while it wouldn't take much, the newer trucks are probably better.
I agree with that, but, his truck is paid off vs purchasing a new truck and acquiring that $800+ monthly payment. In his position. Which I was in a number of years ago, I installed gears and hauled my trailer for years. It worked for what I needed at the time. In 2017 i purchased a new 2016 F250 6.7 PS and it was obviously night and day in regards to towing, but it came with a $970 monthly payment (now paid off) but none the less, the decision he goes will be dictated by his financial limitations.
Sometimes it’s just cheaper to work with what you have. Trucks now days are dang near a mortgage payment..
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