Which piece of equipment is more important?

[CybrSlydr]

I did my first ever PRS competition earlier this year* and had a lot of fun! Only problem is I was woefully unprepared - so much so, I didn't have any dope for my rifle. I'm aiming to fix that this year as I want to go to more competitions this year with a goal of getting a top 15 spot.

I'm going to stick with Hornady 4DOF for my ballistics calculator as there are so many opinions out there that it doesn't really seem like there's any difference between the apps.

My question for you folks is if I could get one, and only one of the following, which would be more useful?

A Kestrel 5700 non-elite or a Garmin/LabRadar chronograph?

I'm thinking the Kestrel as my assumption is that having better weather data will give a better dope vs muzzle velocity measurements.

Is this correct or am I off base?

Thanks!

 

[Tokay444]

Kestrel.

 

[Conrad]

Kestrel. You can either validate your drops and come up with velocity in the kestrel or just ask someone to let you shoot over there Garmin and you’re set. Latter is preferable.

Kestrel will be much more useful for learning wind and setting up your dope and game plan for stages. Particularly when you use it to get wind and target azimuths and let it do the calcs for you.

 

[Sheldon N]

Kestrel would be more beneficial.

If budget is tight, buy used. You'll have enough funds left over to buy a used magnetospeed sporter chrono as well. A quick glance on the forum here and I found a used 4DOF non-elite Kestrel for $375 and a used Sporter for $70.

 

[lte82]

What Sheldon said. ^^

 

[psharon78]

I shot about 5 years of matches before I bought a kestrel. In order to get your dope, you'd be better off with a chronograph.

 

[Tokay444]

I shot about 5 years of matches before I bought a kestrel. In order to get your dope, you'd be better off with a chronograph.

How did you place?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You can get a good solution if you have good inputs but if you don't know your MV then good luck. A chrono is an absolute must IMO. You can do without alot but a not having accurate muzzle velocity means all of your inputs into a solver is marginal at best. The Garmin is a must buy IMO. Being able to throw it on even during a match to verify MV and es is very valuable to diagnosis gun issues.

And if you are serious about shooting you will want both which includes an Elite AB kestral to take advantage of custom curves as well as target card.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Kestrel. You can either validate your drops and come up with velocity in the kestrel or just ask someone to let you shoot over there Garmin and you’re set. Latter is preferable.

Kestrel will be much more useful for learning wind and setting up your dope and game plan for stages. Particularly when you use it to get wind and target azimuths and let it do the calcs for you.

Which are wastes of time and money. With a AB kestral or app you unlock custom curves which makes validating dope almost pointless. You will be within a tenth out to the max ranges we shoot in PRS. But without an accurate MV....none of that is reliable or predictable.

Waste components and burn up barrels like it's 1975.

You can get by with phone app and accurate mv. The best kestral in the world will be worthless without accurate inputs...with mv being one of the most important along with bc.

 

[Emerson0311]

Which are wastes of time and money. With a AB kestral or app you unlock custom curves which makes validating dope almost pointless. You will be within a tenth out to the max ranges we shoot in PRS. But without an accurate MV....none of that is reliable or predictable.

Waste components and burn up barrels like it's 1975.

You can get by with phone app and accurate mv. The best kestral in the world will be worthless without accurate inputs...with mv being one of the most important along with bc.

The Garmin is great, but there no need of every shooter owning one. I tell groups of friends who shoot to share the cost and use of the unit.

 

[Tokay444]

You can use someone else's chronograph anywhere. It's much harder to share a Kestrel.

 

[lte82]

With a AB kestral or app you unlock custom curves which makes validating dope almost pointless. You will be within a tenth out to the max ranges we shoot in PRS.

Custom drag models are really only valid if you shoot over AB's doppler, and only for that lot of bullets in that specific barrel. I have a handful of CDM's from shooting over the doppler and it's pretty shocking how individual each combination can be. I would not blindly use someone else's CDM unless you've tested it, it has potential to be worse than a box stock G7 value. All that to say, you can't really just "unlock" this feature... Plus you still need to go verify and true at distance to at minimum account for scope tracking error/variation. That's less of an issue with higher velocity and bc at shorter distance, but a non-negotiable if shooting longer range.

PS. The doppler calculated average G7s and CDM models give virtually identical results.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Custom drag models are really only valid if you shoot over AB's doppler, and only for that lot of bullets in that specific barrel. I have a handful of CDM's from shooting over the doppler and it's pretty shocking how individual each combination can be. I would not blindly use someone else's CDM unless you've tested it, it has potential to be worse than a box stock G7 value. All that to say, you can't really just "unlock" this feature... Plus you still need to go verify and true at distance to at minimum account for scope tracking error/variation. That's less of an issue with higher velocity and bc at shorter distance, but a non-negotiable if shooting longer range.

PS. The doppler calculated average G7s and CDM models give virtually identical results.

This is wrong. What you are talking about is PDM (Personal Drag Model). (Custom Curves) is the culmination of all the data within the AB library and Doppler testing to come up with a banded BC that best matches a particular bullet.

The only downside is there are certain bullets that due to not being popular or new that may not have a Custom Curve. I had this issue with the norma bullets last year, but was able to true the G7 with Hornady 4DOF and AB to get a very accurate G7.

For any bullet that AB publishes a CC for, you can almost be guaranteed it will be accurate, assuming all your other inputs are correct. Usually within a tenth or less out 12-1400 yards with 6 and 6.5mm bullets.

Virtually every bullet that is popular in PRS, has a custom curve that is made up of tens of if not hundreds of thousands of data points, and is continuously checked and revised if need be.

G7 and Custom Drag models (like CC and 4DOF) cannot give the same results. They can convert to a value but the very nature of how different ballistic coefficient models and banded BC models work means they can't. A g7 model is velocity dependent so its either an average or based on the highest velocity, which is why its inferior to banded.

 

[Changed]

You don't NEED either of those items.

HOWEVER, if you are picking one the Kestsrel is the most helpful.

I will add that the AB mobile app is pretty great.